40-man updates
Per Hoynes, the following were added to the 40-man roster:
Jordan Brown
Nick Weglarz
Jason Donald
Jeanmar Gomez
Wes Hodges
Carlos Rivero
Kelvin De La Cruz
Discuss.
about 2 years ago
lenred
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Jamey Carroll and Tomo Ohka were removed from the 40-man.
Westbrook and Reyes were removed from the 60-day DL and added to the newly-created 400-man roster.
Not the biggest Ohka fan, but i really thought there’d be a spot for him on the 400-man roster.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Nov 20, 2009 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I don’t think Hodges is any good, but at the high end of his projection he represents a Ryan Garko-like third baseman who might fill a short term gap between the present and Lonnie Chisenhall (were Peralta to be traded and Marte exiled).
Hodges as depth for Peralta/Marte just sounds ridiculous to me.
Hodges has never been as good as Marte at any age or level.
I am rolling my eyes at this one.
from the other thread:
1. No Pino?
2. No room to make a Rule 5 selection?
3. Both of the above with regards to Anthony Reyes still on the Roster.
Anthony Reyes being added just seems crazy. Perhaps I’m missing something, but we know exactly what we have in A.R., don’t we? I mean, IMO, I’d much rather cut Reyes loose and go with Pino.
Wes Hodges was pretty surprising too. If nothing else, this should be interesting to see if anybody gets picked up by another team.
by MooneysRebellion on Nov 20, 2009 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Can somebody explain to me why Reyes is considered to have potential? Obviously he was a highly rated prospect, but outside of the tail end of 2006, what is so great about him?
Scott Lewis had a phenominal latter half of 2008 in comparison. What sets Reyes apart?
No, not you. Your helmet!
by PatBordersHelmet on Nov 20, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Bingo. Reyes at one time was considered a top prospect, while Pino never has never been thought of that way.
I’ve never seen him pitch, but I’ve heard Pino’s fastball described as below-average. My guess is that scouts don’t think he has the ceiling that Reyes does (or at least did).
I don’t know if I agree with the 40-man decision, but to those who don’t understand the move, those are my thoughts.
Try this explanation-they think enough of Reyes to see him through his rehab. Not totally unreasonable, if you think about it, considering all of his injury problems stem from the same elbow. To take him off of the roster by designating him for assignment, they would have taken a small risk of losing him to a waiver claim, and they decided not to take that small risk.
Now they’re in a good position. They simply non tender him on December 12, which makes him a free agent-but doesn’t put him on waivers-and he signs a minor league contract, with the Indians, telling him if/when he merits a call up, he’ll get called up. It stops his service time clock, gives Reyes a chance to finish rehab where he started it, and the Indians will have done their due diligence by not making a final decision until they see what he looks like after recovery.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Oh, and could you get Mike Adams for the bullpen, please?
I’m trying to understand the Reyes thing. My intitial response must be that he’s coming along well, but isn’t it too early for that? If he hasn’t even started throwing yet, how can they make any predictions?
is there any “value” to him being able to be 60-day’d? where at the end of spring training they can put an NRI on the roster? i’m reaching now, i know, but just thinking out loud…
That’s not enough depth? We’re only talking one year. Donald can play there in a pinch, or even Gimenez.
Look, the man plays third base. He does; I’m not making it up. We have five other catchers on the roster — Shoppach, Marson, Gimenez, Toregas, and Alomar. It’s not as farfetched as some might think, especially if we were to accidentally back into the division race.
i never said you were making it up. i think it would take a perfect storm of events to see it, though. i just love that you smatter it in from time to time so we don’t forget.
I still want to try Victor at second base, too.
by Jay on Nov 20, 2009 7:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I kind of like the idea of Alomar Minnie-Minosoing his way into the catcher’s box for a meaningless game in late August. Then he can come back in 2016 and 2026 for a couple more at-bats.
by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on Nov 20, 2009 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
I’m going to call you on this a little. Santana’s professional career high for games played at 3B is 38, as a 20-year old in 2006. Since 2006 he has played a total of 6 games at 3B.
Garko at least played 59 games at catcher as a 24-year old in AAA. That’s different than a 20-year old in A-ball.
Actually it slipped my mind that he had played at that high of a level. I was trying to allude to the comments always made that Garko can fill in if we needed some catching depth. I always thought it was pretty dubious.
Steel Nick
Of course; you’d seen him play first base.
The once and future
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Nov 20, 2009 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
Garko at least played 59 games at catcher as a 24-year old in AAA. That’s different than a 20-year old in A-ball the zero he played in the outfield.
by westbrook on Nov 20, 2009 7:18 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
So Jordan Brown wasn’t worth a few AB’s at the end of the year but he is worth a 40 man spot? Does that confuse anyone else?
nope. santana was on the roster already and didn’t get a few AB’s. i never get why this is such an issue.
Imagine it confuses Mr. Brown.
Seriously, my guess is that this is about the sense that someone might actually pick him in the draft, and they’d rather try to use him in a trade or keep him as depth. They were looking at LaPorta and Marte at 1B in September, so calling up Brown was meaningless (I know … they played Romero at 1B at least once).
'If I'm not here, 'I'll be somewhere else.'' Andy Marte
The Jordan Brown move speaks volumes to me about who the decision-maker was, and who it now is. By not bringing up Jordan Brown before, it tells me that Wedge had made up his mind that he would never play Jordan Brown at the major league level. Ever. Which tells me that Wedge actually had more voice over roster decisions than Shapiro did. Even if it was publicly 50-50, that showed it was at least 51-49 Wedge.
Now that Wedge is gone, this truly is Shapiro’s team. Shapiro must feel that Brown is really a prospect – someone we can use now. And if that’s the case, Brown might feel a little differently about the situation. Now that it’s Shapiro’s team, and Acta’s got to find a way to make the parts work together, Brown sees that he has a chance to impress a guy that hasn’t already decided Brown stinks. Considering he was a 4th round pick of Shapiro’s in ’05, Shapiro probably wants to see if he made a good draft pick.
If this is the case, Brown might not be completely pissed about this move.
seriously, why is it a bit of a reach? I thought it was pretty widely accepted that it was Wedge’s decision to get rid of Phillips for Vazquez, and jettison Bradley, and send Jensen Lewis down and it looks like calling up Niumann Romero over Jordan Brown to play first base.
To me, that indicates Wedge had a huge say in personnel decisions.
Shapiro: Golly, I’d sure like to get Jordan Brown up with the big club for 7 or 8 AB’s this month. But gee-wiz, my subordinate just flat out won’t let me. Hates Brown from all those two or three times he saw him in Spring Training. Can’t wait till he’s gone so I can finally add him to the 40-man roster.
by Brick. on Nov 20, 2009 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oo! This is fun game! Let’s see if this can be applied to any other situation:
Shapiro: Golly, I’d sure like to see how my blue-chip top prospect third baseman can play at the major league level before we’re forced to cut him next spring because he’s out of options. But gee-whiz, my subordinate simply won’t play him. He hates him from those 3 years he sent him down before giving him any solid playing time.
Wedge: Mark, unless you’re going to come down here from the luxury boxes to make out the lineup card every game, don’t tell me who I need to play and who I should sit. By the way, Niuman Romero would make a great fill-in first baseman. He’s gritty. Unlike your third baseman. He can only play dominoes.
Not close to the same thing. Wedge at least saw marte. Wedge was on his way out when the brown decision came to pass. Wedge did not “obviously” refuse to play a guy he never had. Brown sucks.
by Brick. on Nov 20, 2009 10:17 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
My guess is that Brown IS pissed about this move because he just got a ticket to ride the I-71 Express for the next three years instead of potentially being a Rule 5 draftee and having to stay on another team’s 25-man roster in 2010.
If you think the 26-year-old Jordan Brown is underwhelming, just wait until he’s 29 and out of options.
by The DiaTriber on Nov 20, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If you think the 26-year-old Jordan Brown is underwhelming, just wait until he’s 29 and out of options.
This reminds me of one of my all-time favorite quotes, delivered by a friend of mine during a morning swim practice after having been told that his effort was the most pathetic thing our coach had ever seen:
“wait till this afternoon”
by APV on Nov 20, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
If this is the case,Brown might not be completely pissed about this moveShapiro isn’t very smart.
Fixed.
by Brad D on Nov 20, 2009 4:51 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I disagree completely. If Shapiro wanted him to get a look in September, he would’ve been brought up. They wanted the at-bats to go to Brantley, LaPorta, and Marte.
Brown is pretty universally regarded by this group as a decent hitter with no ceiling and certainly not a difference maker at the positions he plays. If he’s thought of in that way by this group, don’t you think he’s probably regarded that way by the club? In other words, there really wasn’t a reason for them to call him up last year other than as a reward…and they really don’t operate that way. He has some value, so they rostered him over the winter.
I’m surprised there’s all this hullabaloo over Pino not being on the roster. I don’t even know who the hell that guy is.
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
Ha I know, I’m just joking. Point being, seems like an awful lot of uproar about a guy we got for a guy we dragged from the bottom of the scrap heap.
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Nov 20, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
How we got him doesn’t matter…the important point is that we had him and now we risk losing him for $50k. He had an excellent 2009 with three teams split between AA and AAA, following an admittedly unimpressive 2008. But his three seasons prior, 2005-2007, were closer to the 2009 version of Pino than the 2008 version.
or perhaps held onto him and he will be the first to be dropped if we pick up a free agent, maybe? Just thinking out loud trying to justify it somehow
by MooneysRebellion on Nov 20, 2009 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think he’s quite bottom of the scrap heap.
I don’t think there’s much of an uproar.
The issue isn’t really Pino so much as protecting Hodges and Reyes (and arguably Brown) over him. Everybody understands why you’d protect Weglarz, Donald, Gomez, Rivero, and De La Cruz over him.
Here is a link to the Indians current 40-man roster, by the way. The slough on the list seems to be Reyes and Veras for pitchers, one of the catchers, Gimenez, Hodges, Brown and Crowe. If the Indians lose someone who ends up being good, which I think is probably unlikely, these are the guys we probably shouldn’t have held on to.
nobody’s busted out the list lately, have they?
Johan Santana
Joakim Soria
Dan Uggla
Shane Victorino
Josh Hamilton
i don’t think we left any of those unprotected. maybe costanza is a willy taveras.
And, ancient history division, Roberto Clemente
by ken from alexandria on Nov 20, 2009 5:15 PM EST up reply actions
I honestly don’t know. All I know is that the Dodgers tried to hide him on their AAA Montreal roster, and the Pirates had to keep him on their 25-man roster throughout the next season. I think they paid $5,000. Other than that, it sounds pretty much the same.
by ken from alexandria on Nov 22, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
I still harbor hope for Veras for some reason.
The once and future
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Nov 20, 2009 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
Here’s my list of guys another team might consider taking:
Jose Constanza
John Drennen
Ryan Edell
Frank Herrmann
Chuck Lofgren
Matt McBride
Matt Meyer
Vinnie Pestano
Yohan Pino
Josh Rodriguez
Carlton Smith
Erik Stiller
Josh Tomlin
Neil Wagner
Steven Wright
These guys are all pretty much limited skill positional guys with low ceilings or dime a dozen relief arms.
I believe you can stick 28 guys on the Triple-A roster for the duration of the minor league phase — which probably will include all of the above names. It’s not really the Triple-A roster, since it includes none of your 40-man roster. In any event, there is no chance of losing a real prospect in that phase.
I’m worried (if you can call it that) about potentially losing Lofgren and Pino. To a lesser extent: Herrmann and Tomlin.
The bigger blow might be that our chances of relevantly breaking out one of these in a gamethread has been reduced.
As Andrew mentioned in the initial thread, I’m disappointed there isn’t a free slot. Does anyone know how it works in terms of making room? Does the room have to exist as of now or can they drop someone once they see who everyone else left unprotected?
Seems like a good year to take a flier on someone.
Seeing as we need to take a look at all we got I think it would be a waste to take a flier on someone at the ML level if it is gonna cost us looking at what we already have.
by The Grimace on Nov 21, 2009 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
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