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Around SBN: Tiger Woods, Tony Romo Grouped Together At Pebble Beach

A unique piece from our buddy David Laurila.

about 2 years ago Dosequisman_tiny Jay 43 comments 0 recs  | 

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That was an interesting interview. Thanks for finding that Jay.

by MooneysRebellion on Nov 23, 2009 12:07 PM EST reply actions  

yeah, i liked it as well.

by Brick. on Nov 23, 2009 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

For anybody who claims the players and, in other context, managers/coaches have a better grasp of what transpires on the field, see David Huff’s comment re: I’m not even aware pitch f/x data is available.

by xrickx on Nov 23, 2009 1:12 PM EST reply actions  

I was very surprised to read this. Considering how analytical the front office seems to be, I assumed that the coaching staff and players routinely used these data during their preparation. What are they waiting for?

by Jeffrey R on Nov 23, 2009 5:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe they want to spend more time preparing to, ya know, actually pitch.

"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay

by Turkmenbashi on Nov 23, 2009 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Doesn’t it seem a little bit negligent—or, if you don’t want to go that far, lazy—to completely disregard it?

by xrickx on Nov 23, 2009 8:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not sure this is true. From my (admittedly very limited) experience, a pitcher will get a scouting report and do his best to execute it. Whether that report comes from pitch f/x or some dude in the stands with a notepad is of very little importance to some pitchers. Apparently Huff is one of those guys.

All this to say, Huff could very well be using this information without knowing whence it came.

Everybody should get ice cream every day.

by Joel D on Nov 26, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Expanding on this, not every pitcher is going to thrive with every last scrap of detailed data available.

by Jay on Nov 26, 2009 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I have no doubt the front office taps into whatever resources are available. It does not surprise me that players and managers do not. These are the guys who vote for gold gloves and silver sluggers — you see the evidence of their analytical ineptitude each year.

And there’s probably some merit there: for batters, see ball, hit ball; for pitchers, throw strikes and trust your defense. But that simplification to a basic approach is appropriate when your basic approach considers all the relevant info. And if fairness to Huff and the front office—why tinker with him in 2009 when everything he’d done up until then seemed to work just fine.

by xrickx on Nov 23, 2009 8:33 PM EST up reply actions  

One disappointing lesson I took from 2009 is that the front office is not as directly involved with the day-to-day management of the team as I expected. I am hesitant to believe that Shapiro thought it was wise to send Garko into the outfield or deny Marte plate appearances at a time the club needed more data on him, and yet those things occurred. So perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised that it isn’t standard procedure for pitchers and catchers to be studying these data. But the front office clearly believes that data helps them make better decisions… why aren’t they showing their coaches and players how they can benefit from the data as well? I don’t understand. It seems to me like it should be a standard part of a player’s routine.

by Jeffrey R on Nov 24, 2009 1:02 AM EST up reply actions  

does anyone just watch the game any more?

Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Nov 23, 2009 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Another old canard!

All anecdotal evidence is that sabermetrics fanatics watch more actual baseball than other fans do, simply because they’re more fanatical about baseball in general.

by Jay on Nov 23, 2009 9:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn’t know they had room for a TV in their mom’s basement amidst all the computer screens!

see what I did there?

by JP_Frost on Nov 23, 2009 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Psh, all you need is a TV tuner card and you’re golden.

Chugga-chugga chugga-chugga, Choo Choo!

by USSChoo on Nov 24, 2009 2:16 AM EST up reply actions  

But we bitch more, and if we did not take those long long naps we would watch more games.

Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Nov 24, 2009 12:01 AM EST up reply actions  

Why do I have to take a nap if I never get up before 12:30?

/continues meme

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Nov 24, 2009 9:23 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m not that surprised.

Wait 'til next millennium!

by emd2k3 on Nov 24, 2009 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe Huff will get that era under 5 and a half if he looked at the data. BAM.

by ASP on Nov 23, 2009 6:56 PM EST reply actions  

Strikeouts are boring. Interesting.

by westbrook on Nov 23, 2009 7:53 PM EST reply actions  

That’s just something pitchers who can’t strike out guys say.

by xrickx on Nov 23, 2009 8:35 PM EST up reply actions  

haha yep

If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.

by Cap'n Snegiryov on Nov 23, 2009 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

The attitude toward strikeouts struck me as more distressing than the comment about f/x data. Huff is obviously right about efficient outs and pitch counts, but seems completely uninterested in context. Strikeouts are no different from groundball outs with the leadoff hitter in any inning. But they’re clearly superior to other forms of outs in other situations, say, with a runner on third and no outs.

"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter

by Denver Tribe Fan on Nov 23, 2009 9:32 PM EST up reply actions  

What Huff also doesn’t know is that he won’t still be pitching in Cleveland or for any other major league team beyond, say, 2014, if he maintains that strikeout rate.

Who does he think he is? Nick Blackburn?

by xrickx on Nov 23, 2009 9:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I wonder if we shouldn’t separate the pitcher’s approach to strikeouts from the evaluative use of the statistic. That is to say, a pitcher might be able to improve his performance by de-emphasizing the strikeout. Think about what’s ancillary to a pitch-to-contact approach—improved control from slightly reduced velocity, decreased pitch counts, a faster pace (which the much-maligned conventional wisdom says leads to better fielding), etc. I think there’s a lot of value in a pitcher not actively aiming for strikeouts.

Of course, when we look at pitching lines as fans, we can’t de-emphasize strikeouts. Good pitchers will get K’s no matter what their approach is—they’ll just get a few less than they would otherwise. Fausto’s a good example—his strikeout rate basically has easily and conspicuously tracked his success or the lack thereof, but it was always obvious he wasn’t consciously attempting to strike out the batter.

The once and future

by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Nov 23, 2009 11:03 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I though strikeouts were fascist.

by talonk on Nov 28, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

So he is in fact Jeremy Sowers. Damn.

LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.

by Joe. on Nov 24, 2009 1:21 PM EST reply actions  

I should say, I’m actually pretty high on Huff next season. The funny part of his comment is that I think his success next year depends on his ability to miss more bats. And I think he can do it.

He struck out 8.1 per nine in his minor league career as compared to 4.5 last year. His BABIP-against was a bit high last year. I think his changeup is a legit major league out pitch, not just a show-me offering. And his slider/slurve isn’t just a floater.

by xrickx on Nov 24, 2009 4:39 PM EST reply actions  

I don’t know what to think about Huff. He was outstanding coming into last season, but never at any point, spring training included, did he look like the same pitcher in 2009. I don’t know what explains that, but I certainly would like to see Huff step up and be a legitimate mid-rotation quality starter.

by APV on Nov 24, 2009 6:23 PM EST up reply actions  

He’s a guy who’s made adjustments to take big steps forward before. I’m not exactly bullish on him, but it won’t surprise me if he’s a solid number-two guy in 2010.

by Jay on Nov 24, 2009 8:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Remember, he got hurt in spring training. My theory all along has been that he never really recovered 100% of his arm strength. Hopefully his fastball is a tick better next year, which will help that changeup.

by TribeJay on Nov 24, 2009 8:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the Indians should have demoted him to the minor leagues, then left him off the playoff roster. Then, there would be no doubt in my mind that he’d bounce back to win the Cy Young next year.

by xrickx on Nov 24, 2009 11:42 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

They left everyone off the playoff roster, so 2010 should be a miracle year.

Chugga-chugga chugga-chugga, Choo Choo!

by USSChoo on Nov 25, 2009 2:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Cy Youngs all around!

Wait 'til next millennium!

by emd2k3 on Nov 25, 2009 10:48 PM EST up reply actions  

The guy I kinda soured on was Aaron Laffey — why’d he start walking all those people? Granted, it was an interesting year for him. Rotation, bullpen, injury, rotation. If I’m giving anybody the benefit of the doubt, it’s going to be Laffey. But there’s no reason why he shouldn’t be Jake Westbrook circa 2004-2007.

by xrickx on Nov 24, 2009 11:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Too bad we’ll never know what Jake Westbrook circa 2008 would have looked like.

by westbrook on Nov 25, 2009 1:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Hrm…perhaps “spinner” would have been more appropriate? Kinda like Paul Byrd’s slider. It kinda spins horizontally, but it doesn’t really seem to slide or curve—it kinda just floats.

by xrickx on Nov 24, 2009 11:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I remember reading that his problem getting lefties out, which the statistics seem to bear out ( .317 .385 .500 line against, although he had a high BABIP and he wasn’t that much better against righties, .806 OPS against).

His changeup is effective against righties, but he needs a breaking ball to be effective against lefties, and his breaking ball was spotty at best this year. There is reason to believe he can improve, as his minor league numbers show that he has actually been more effective against lefties than righties (10.13k/9 against lefties vs. 7k/9) against righties.

by bewwolv on Nov 25, 2009 12:06 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m actually pretty high on Huff

Be careful with that stuff.

Is this the whale section?

by sarcasmdave on Nov 25, 2009 12:35 AM EST up reply actions  

It would be a freaky rotation that had Laffey, Huff and Sowers in it.

by odradek on Nov 25, 2009 12:27 AM EST reply actions  

Wow. Rarely am I caught off guard by a joke. This one got me.

by afh4 on Nov 25, 2009 8:56 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

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