An Acta Desperation?
An article written by Mike Stein on November 2nd, 2009.
3 months ago
ClevelandCrazy29
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Saw it. Pretty stupid.
Il faut d'abord durer.
by CU Adam on Nov 3, 2009 3:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Responding in the form of a list:
- You mean Manny Acta had a losing record as Nats’ manager? This is horrible. Why was I not informed of this terrible news?
- The Nationals were a crappy team full of crappy players led by an abomination of a GM. I don’t care what Acta’s record was. Don’t. Care. What will he do in the future? That is the only thing that matters.
- Now that we’ve hear for the 9,387,423rd time that Acta’s Nats lost a bunch of games, can we move on? Please?
by FredOx on Nov 3, 2009 3:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I thought this right after I posted. If so, I don’t mean to imply that you’re stupid. I would agree with those things that Fred said above, though, and would clarify that I mean talking about Acta’s losing record in Washington — at least as much as it’s been talked about — is pretty stupid.
Il faut d'abord durer.
by CU Adam on Nov 3, 2009 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I hope not, because I have a zero tolerance policy for use of the phrase “he gone.”
by FredOx on Nov 3, 2009 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, I’m not Mike Stein, it’s just an article i found on the Internet that I found had some factual details about why the Indians truly didn’t think out the process, rather just pulled the trigger out of desperation on who their manager would.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Nov 3, 2009 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the Indians truly didn’t think out the process, rather just pulled the trigger out of desperation
the sky is green.
by Brick. on Nov 3, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Desperation = making a decision I, a random dude on the internet, don’t like.
by FredOx on Nov 3, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
How does ‘Acta had a bad record with a bad team’ translate into your quote “the Indians truly didn’t think out the process, rather just pulled the trigger out of desperation”? Your logic makes no sense to me.
Also! I noticed that only four of the managers listed are post-WWII; that’s a SSS if I’ve ever seen one (I have a hard time accepting baseball events of 100 years ago as being germane). And they all had very few seasons as manager (4 + short stretches of partial seasons at most). Was it because they were so bad that they could never work again, or was it that bad luck early in their careers led teams to shy away from hiring them? A more meaningful comparison would be: How many other managers started their careers as badly as Acta, and then rebounded (or didn’t) to respectability?
I demand compensation for the time I spent reading that article.
by jds16 on Nov 3, 2009 5:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A more meaningful comparison would be: How many other managers started their careers as badly as Acta, and then rebounded (or didn’t) to respectability?
This is the key point. A serious piece of analysis would look at managers who began their careers this badly. That would include this group but also a much larger group. I agree that it should be limited in some way to more recent times after the professionalization of the sport. Post-WW2 is one logical cut-off point, although 1932, 1950 and 1969 would also make sense.
It would also find some way to take into consideration the context. The Senators, like the Nationals, were going to be horrendous no matter what. Would the author of this piece rather have a guy who walked into what appeared to be a potential 90-win situation and only came up with 75? It seems obvious to me that that would be a worse candidate than Acta.
I don’t think you necessarily give Acta a total free pass, but he did decently with an expansion franchise in his first year, and the overall franchise was in total disarray when the 2009 season started.
by Jay on Nov 3, 2009 6:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I did’t write the article. So if you have complaints tell the author.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Nov 3, 2009 6:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
See, now I’m even more suspicious.
Finally convinced my dad that Jeter is immensely hatable.
by westbrook on Nov 3, 2009 6:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You caught me. Yesterday I had a new procedure done that makes you look 30 years older. I did it hoping that you guys would accept me, but obviously it didn’t work. Maybe I should have gotten the brain transplant also, who knows.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Nov 3, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gee, Crazy, you’re awfully defensive for a guy who didn’t write the article.
I assume you posted the link here so we could discuss it. I am discussing it.
Ergo, if I have complaints, I will post them right here.
by Jay on Nov 3, 2009 7:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sorry Jay, it’s just frustrating when I offer advice and instantly it gets voted off as worthless crap and is assumed that I wrote it. I will try to be more understanding of other criticism but please, we all have our opinions and mine is that Acta will not and cannot turn the Indians around. Now maybe this stance will change but as of Nov. 3, 2009 at 9:24PM, this is my belief.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Nov 3, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So tell me, how is hiring Acta show you that they were tripping over themselves in desperation? Was the rabid Cleveland fanbase demanding Acta, other interviewees be damned? What was the desperation?
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Nov 3, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Houston was offering him the job.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Nov 4, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Weird, why would another team want to hire someone who is such a bad manager?
by Roger Dorn on Nov 4, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That, and they truly didn’t think out their process.
by Jay on Nov 4, 2009 4:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
They had to hire him before the Indians did.
by odradek on Nov 4, 2009 7:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was a pretty innocent or playful question. If you agree with the column, why would you be offended at the suggestion that you are the author?
I think it’s a mistake think of this in terms of the manager singlehandedly turning things around. The hope is that Acta handles our players better and gets the most out of their talent. As Ryan noted, the marginal wins that a manager adds come mainly from his role in developing talent and maintaining performance levels from veterans.
by Jay on Nov 3, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats even worse. Instead of nine worse managers you just cut it down to four. Thanks for helping me make my point, without intentionally doing so.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Nov 3, 2009 9:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I did not help you make your point.
Consider how few people that is. Consider that Manny Acta’s managing career is not over, despite your objections. The fact that there are just four post-war managers with records that bad, even though the Royals and Pirates exist, suggests that given enough time there will most likely be some regression to the mean. And that would be true even if Acta actually sucks. Unless he historically sucks, and it’s way too early to know that.
by jds16 on Nov 3, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Acta, Lvullo, Valentine, LaRussa, Stengel or John McGraw, unless he can put up an ERA+ of 1.50 or OPS >1.000, I don’t see any manager pulling us up past fourth place next year.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
by mauichuck on Nov 4, 2009 1:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not disagreeing, but that’s still likely to raise Acta’s career winning percentage.
by jds16 on Nov 4, 2009 6:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t forget the Pirates and Royals have both won WS Championships – the Pirates two! – since 1971. We, on the other hand…………..
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
by mauichuck on Nov 4, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that that is a small sample size, but just the fact that there have only been four managers worse is awful. That means that everyone else post or pre war, has been better than Acta, aside from the four you mentioned.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Nov 4, 2009 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the disconnect: you look at that article and say “these are the only managers worse than Acta.” I read it, and will only go so far as to say those are the managers with worse records than the 2007-09 Nationals. That is not at all the same thing. MLB has more than a few current managers who lost a whole bunch of games in their first few years (Torre, LaRussa, Cox), each of which probably had more to work with than did Manny Acta.
If this is to be an actual discussion, you need to explain why you think Acta will be a bad manager, and provide something other than his record in DC. Because otherwise, it’s just boring.
by FredOx on Nov 4, 2009 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am assuming Acta will go on to manage more games.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Nov 4, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I saw Grady Sizemore ground out once. I have made my point that that is all Grady Sizemore ever has and ever will do.
Sample size, is the point.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Nov 3, 2009 10:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was going to award you a style variance.
by Jay on Nov 3, 2009 10:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Your point is the same as the Mike Stein article, then?
That’s fine. We’re entitled to our opinions. I don’t share your disdain for the Acta hiring, because I’m willing to consider what he was working with in Washington a mess from the start. That said, it is interesting to note (small sample size alert) what Jim Riggleman was able to get out of the team after Acta was fired.
I think Acta may serve to be a better fit in Cleveland than in Washington, and so far, I’ve come away impressed with his approach.
I think the criticism generated by the Stein article is that while he did some homework in comparing Acta to some of the worst managers in history, he didn’t really provide enough context as to why Acta’s teams in DC were so awful. A more thorough examination into the personnel decisions made by DC management compared with Acta’s managerial decision-making history would be more appropriate in determining if he is likely to be a bad hire. Just looking at a winning percentage doesn’t tell us the entire story.
Wait 'til next millennium!
by emd2k3 on Nov 4, 2009 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The touting of what Riggleman got out of the Nationals after Acta was fired is pretty weak when you consider that around the time Acta was fired the team was changing dramatically. Riggleman didn’t have to run Austin Kearns and his 8 million dollar salary out there, nor did he have to suffer through Daniel Cabrera, Scott Olsen, and Joel Hanrahan. Instead he got to send Livan Hernandez out to eat innings, Tyler Clippard out to hold things down in the pen, Nyjer Morgan and his .831 OPS out of the lead-off spot, and a decent helping of prospects to run out instead of Bowden’s over priced FA grabs that had been cast off.
by The Grimace on Nov 4, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Riggleman certainly has not shown himself to be a good manager with his previous teams (the Cubs come to mind).
by odradek on Nov 4, 2009 7:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t touting it, just pointing it out. I’m no Riggleman fan at all, I just didn’t want to be accused of being too pro-Acta, I suppose.
Wait 'til next millennium!
by emd2k3 on Nov 4, 2009 10:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t so much jumping your case, sorry if it came across that way. But a lot of writers are using this to prove their points against Acta (or his overall win / loss record, cause Joe Torre and Bobby Cox should have never gotten another shot) and it is aggravating.
by The Grimace on Nov 4, 2009 10:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You may want to look into what exactly constitutes a fact.
by fwembt on Nov 4, 2009 12:39 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
fact [fakt] n., something which I really, really, cross-my-heart believe to be true.
by FredOx on Nov 4, 2009 10:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.theclevelandfan.com/authors.php?artId=103&is_author=Yes. This is the link that was embedded into the article for Mike Stein. If in fact I am Mike Stein, I aged 30 years over night, I got the privilege of going onto the field and I now have a Job as a writer. Which as far as I know, none of the above hold true.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Nov 3, 2009 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Stein does not appear to have a job as a writer.
by Jay on Nov 3, 2009 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He means the Biblical character. Stein’s writing can cause boils and the death of livestock. Ergo, he has a Job as a writer.
by fwembt on Nov 4, 2009 12:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For some reason, I really like this line.
Everybody should get ice cream every day.
by junkballer on Nov 4, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s a librarian now. Former writer, I guess. He’s been in a DMB league with me for the past ten years. In my division, actually.
by ProgMetaller on Nov 4, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dave Matthews Band league?
Odd for a progmetaller.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Nov 4, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, the rare person that I don’t have to explain the name to.
I guess I should have went without the abbreviation. Diamond Mind Baseball. If you’re into simulations, it’s worth checking out.
By the way, I’ve never heard a Dave Matthews song.
by ProgMetaller on Nov 4, 2009 10:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I call BS. I’m not saying you’re lying, I just don’t believe you.
Il faut d'abord durer.
by CU Adam on Nov 4, 2009 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s true. I couldn’t even guess the last time that I listened to anything that played “popular” music.
by ProgMetaller on Nov 4, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
or been in any public place where music is being played?
possible real mother’s basement situation here…
by Brick. on Nov 4, 2009 11:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m with Adam. Not saying that you’ve ever chosen to listen to a Dave Matthews song, but you’ve got to be the loneliest loner to have never heard one.
Heck, there’s a good chance you’ve heard one watching baseball (or other sports) on tv. His stuff is sometimes chosen as lead-in, lead-out music for commercials when a network wants to appear hip.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Nov 4, 2009 11:26 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I know I have heard one. I just couldn’t identify one.
Finally convinced my dad that Jeter is immensely hatable.
by westbrook on Nov 4, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They played a DMB song in one of the World Series montage things I’ve caught on Fox.
Il faut d'abord durer.
by CU Adam on Nov 4, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So, if a song is on in the background, and you pay no attention to it, you’ve still “heard” it? I guess that I’m just good at blocking out things that don’t interest me. It’s good to know that this makes me an unbelievable loner that lives in his mother’s basement. Too funny. :)
Just out of curiousity, I asked my teenage daughter if she had ever “heard” a Dave Matthews song. She said no, and she’s the one that actually listens to “popular” music and watches tv.
by ProgMetaller on Nov 4, 2009 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I happen to be a teenager and I have never heard of the dave mathews band through my friends. However i know my Dad listens to him so, it’s more of a popular group with adults, therefore it is no suprise your daughter has never heard of it.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Nov 4, 2009 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
One of my high school students burned a DMB cd for me last month because he thought it was great and hoped I’d like it. I haven’t bothered to listen to it yet.
by jds16 on Nov 4, 2009 7:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s more of a popular group with adults…
Real adults don’t listen to Dave Matthews, Crazy. They mix up a pitcher of martinis and listen to In the Wee Small Hours by Frank Sinatra.
by odradek on Nov 4, 2009 7:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They’re popular primarily with adults who were in their early 20s when they first broke out. Like most groups that have been around more than five years.
by Jay on Nov 4, 2009 8:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The argument wasn’t about real adults, it was that teenagers wouldn’t have heard of Dave Matthews.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Nov 5, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I liked Dave Matthews Band once. Then I went to college where everyone loved it and I was beaten over the head with it. Just like I did with this band, let us all move on.
Chugga-chugga chugga-chugga, Choo Choo!
by USSChoo on Nov 5, 2009 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I happen to be a teenager
We’d accept you more if you were older.
Everybody should get ice cream every day.
by junkballer on Nov 4, 2009 11:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would have never guessed this. sarc/
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Nov 5, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i have never read this post in my life.
by Brick. on Nov 4, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is quite funny, and yet until now un-recced. Odd.
by Logodaedalus on Nov 8, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Woah, the rec and flag buttons are in opposite places. Odd.
by Logodaedalus on Nov 8, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe the purpose of this is to put “rec” directly under “actions,” such that a double-click gets the rec done.
by Jay on Nov 8, 2009 9:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
just to be clear, DMB was popular in the late 90s, so obviously your teenager wouldn’t be listening to them now. They are considered “old school” by the younguns.
by talonk on Nov 4, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t this almost exactly what I said?
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Nov 4, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They are considered "old school" by the younguns.
I happen to be a teenager and I have never heard of the dave mathews band through my friends. However i know my Dad listens to him so, it’s more of a popular group with adults, therefore it is no suprise your daughter has never heard of it.
No, your right, but this one mentioned the exact same thing I did.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Nov 4, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Limbo
Lust
Gluttony
Avarice
Wrath and Sloth
Heresy
Violence
Fraud
Treason
by Jay on Nov 4, 2009 7:14 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Keanu Reeves Voice: Whoa.
Wait 'til next millennium!
by emd2k3 on Nov 4, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nick Nolte from Black Sheep voice: I’m seriously impressed.
Everybody should get ice cream every day.
by junkballer on Nov 4, 2009 11:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just to finish the thought, although you said you were a teenager and that your dad listened to DMB, that exactly does not put a timeframe on when DMB came out. Your dad could be 35 or 65, so the timeframe of the late 90s was the key to my post.
by talonk on Nov 5, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You’d think, then, that in ten years he’d have learned that past performance does not guarantee future results.
by FredOx on Nov 4, 2009 10:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You have to read the small print everytime you bite into a bacon sandwich: Past performance does not guarantee future results.
by odradek on Nov 5, 2009 10:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That would be untrue of bacon. All bacon sandwiches are guaranteed AWESOME.
Now, bologna, on the other hand …
Wait 'til next millennium!
by emd2k3 on Nov 6, 2009 1:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
So how about a bologna and bacon sandwich …..
by talonk on Nov 6, 2009 5:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thick, fried bologna or lame cold bologna?
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
by woodsmeister on Nov 7, 2009 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm, so you’re saying that you’re about 8 or 9 years old then?
by ProgMetaller on Nov 4, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
From where did you draw to this conclusion? It never mentions Steins age? I just went with an assumption that he may be about 30 years older than me.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Nov 4, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure Koobs would like to tell us who Crazy is.
Finally convinced my dad that Jeter is immensely hatable.
by westbrook on Nov 3, 2009 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why did koobs post that? Even I didn’t understand what it meant.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Nov 3, 2009 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The implication being that you normally comprehend things that are inscrutable to most?
by Logodaedalus on Nov 8, 2009 5:08 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No, the implication being that you guys precieve me as an idiot who would only understand rambling crap like what Koobs posted.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Nov 9, 2009 10:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank God, a new post … I was really missing this thread.
by Jay on Nov 10, 2009 11:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
They say that boredom is the mother of creativity. It’s also the father of a lot of bad sports journalism.
I feel your pain Mr. Stein. Not much to talk about.
by Toxicadam on Nov 3, 2009 3:18 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I’ve pretty much stopped paying attention over at Swerb’s place. Paul Cousineau, Steve Buffum, and Tony Lastoria are pretty much the only worthwhile writers over there, and I can follow Paul and Tony elsewhere.
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
by woodsmeister on Nov 3, 2009 4:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it’s gone downhill. WFNY is consistently better, I’ve found. I still enjoy most stuff John Hnat writes, and Buffum is a favorite, though he’s harder to read in a season like this when there is so little to enjoy.
Il faut d'abord durer.
by CU Adam on Nov 3, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s harder to read any of our offerings in a season like this.
by Jay on Nov 3, 2009 8:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True. I thought the B-List was at its best in ‘07, when it was still fresh (at least for me, I’m not sure how long he’d been writing, but I first read regularly that season) and self-deprecating, if that’s the correct word, of a good team that was going places. But maybe it was just easiest to enjoy all of the things people are good enough to put out there in a season like that.
Il faut d'abord durer.
by CU Adam on Nov 3, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe Buff started it in 2005 on the old CSML (Cleveland Sports Mailing List) on Yahoo Groups. Both Buff and Tony were the All Stars over there. I left when people started yelling at me for Game Threading while drinking. I’m much more comfortable over here… I’m typically less than the 5th drunkest person in any given thread.
by gte619n on Nov 4, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can assure you all (and crazy) that crazy is indeed not me — me being the author of said article. I can also assure you all (and myself) that I am not 30 years older than crazy.
Re: the article — just trying to provide a tongue-in-cheek look of the Tribe (and Cleveland sports in general). One way to do this was to point out that in the history of baseball, only nine managers have a worse career record than Acta’s. And then take a look at who they were. From there, you can extrapolate what you wish. I certainly won’t claim that past fail = future fail for Acta.
At any rate, thanks for reading. It’s definitely interesting to see this spirited discussion!
by God Hates Cleveland Sports on Nov 4, 2009 11:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
thanks for stopping by. always appreciated when an author from elsewhere does this.
now. how many times have you heard dave matthews?
by Brick. on Nov 5, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s often hard to convey the difference between tongue-in-cheek and garden-variety bitterness in an article. Especially in this situation, where the readership is presently predisposed to read for bitterness. Even the title of your site, it’s hard to tell whether it’s over-the-top tongue-in-cheek or genuine, classic Cleveland fatalism.
by Jay on Nov 5, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How old are you then? Because you appear to be in your mid to late 40’s which would in fact make you 30 years older than me.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Nov 5, 2009 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who the **** walks around asking everyone how old they are?
Finally convinced my dad that Jeter is immensely hatable.
by westbrook on Nov 5, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Idiots do, pure bumbling, insecure, pubescent, surgically improved to look and act older but not as old or as smart as you, idiot like me. sarc/
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Nov 5, 2009 4:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You have the sarc tag backward. Just an FYI.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Nov 5, 2009 9:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just wondering. Does that change the meaning of it or not?
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Nov 5, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t imagine it does, I’m just being overly nitpicky. But it looks like putting the apostrophe between the wrong letters or something.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Nov 5, 2009 11:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s actually kind of a self-closing tag that way.
by Jay on Nov 6, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Want out of Cleveland? Easy - mess with LeBron's entourage.
by woodsmeister on Nov 5, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m just trying to stick up for myself.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Nov 5, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok. I’ve been hard on you in the past, but let me offer some advice. Sticking up for yourself is presenting facts in a calm way when everyone else verges to the ad hominem, sticking up for yourself is explaining your viewpoint rationally when you know it won’t be popular, sticking up for yourself is not letting people shout you down simply because you disagree. That is sticking up for yourself.
Asking people how old they are, and then continuing to make a big deal of it, on an internet site, is pedantic and juvenile.
by fwembt on Nov 5, 2009 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I never made a big deal about the guys age. I was just curious.
by ClevelandCrazy29 on Nov 5, 2009 5:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Someone has read Rudyard Kipling.
Everybody should get ice cream every day.
by junkballer on Nov 5, 2009 11:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m probably more like 25 years older than you, though based on your perception of my photo it appears my days of going after high-school chicks are over.
As far as DMB goes — I like playing DMB more than listening to DMB.
by God Hates Cleveland Sports on Nov 5, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I, for one, took your article as completely serious and roundly attacked you for it. My apologies.
by fwembt on Nov 5, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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