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Around SBN: Explaining Jeremy Lin's Early, Surprising Success

Top Prospects, part 5: The pitchers

2010 Top Prospects 4 Position Players
1 The Injured 5 Pitchers 1
2 Fringe Position Players 5.5 Pitchers 2
3 Fringe Pitchers 6 Santana & Recap

 

I am breaking up the interesting pitchers into two lists because there are simply too many of them.  I am going to include those guys who performed primarily below the AA-level in this first set.  These pitchers are not necessarily further from Cleveland, since a few of them are very highly thought of and might advance through the system quickly, but their performance has to be viewed in the context of the lower competition they have faced.  I have also added newly-acquired Mitch Talbot to the end of this list.  He belongs on the previous fringe list, owing to his age and 2009 performance, but as the numbers below should suggest he would have graded out as a very good prospect prior to this season.

Alexander Perez (19.9, High-A) – Perez got shut down for much of the last two months of the season, but prior to those troubling "soreness" issues, he was one of the Tribe’s biggest 2009 breakouts.  A product of the Indians Dominican system, Perez made a very convincing jump from rookie ball last year to Lake County (3.04 ERA, 3:1 K:BB) to Kinston (2.87 ERA, 3.4:1 K:BB).  Assuming he comes back healthy (he has avoided surgery so far), Perez will spend most of 2010 as a 20-year old, with Akron not too far ahead of him.

A Perez IP aFIP ERA BB% K% GB% Net ProS
2008 50.2 3.27 4.26 7.8 23.9 47.1 21 3.17
2009 114.1 3.65 2.99 7.1 22.9 48.9 39 6.67

Jason Knapp (18.8, Low-A) – We know the story on Knapp, great fastball and great strikeout numbers.  He has had some control issues, and there is on-going concern about the health of his pitching arm.  Given his age and performance, though, he is perhaps the highest ceiling pitcher in the Indians system at the moment. 

J Knapp IP aFIP ERA BB% K% GB% Net ProS
2008 31.0 2.57 2.61 9.2 29.2 38.8 20 4.79
2009 97.0 3.68 4.18 11.4 29.7 35.6 46 5.36

 

Nick Hagadone (23.0, High-A) – Hagadone is another new acquisition, and another pitcher with injury questions.  Hagadone has been limited to 80 innings in his 3-year professional career because of tommy-john surgery.  Healthy now, scouts rave about his stuff (his greater than 30% K-rate this past season does not hurt, either).  Like Knapp, Hagadone could use some improvements in his control.  Unlike Knapp, Hagadone is decidedly a ground-ball pitcher whose strong downward action has limited his opponents to just a single HR in his pro career.

N Hagadone IP aFIP ERA BB% K% GB% Net ProS
2007 24.1 2.54 1.85 8.5 35.1 59.3 21 6.01
2008 10.0 4.43 0.00 14.0 27.9 65.4 5 2.00
2009 45.0 3.17 2.80 13.0 31.9 55.5 28 2.76

Scott Barnes (21.8, AA)

 

Star-divide

Barnes made it to Akron for the final month of the season, but spent most of 2009 in high-A ball.  Barnes put up a solid across-the-board line in 2009 with decent K-rates and BB-rates and a solid overall performance.  His adjusted FIP is a little less optimistic, though, and his 15 HRs allowed this season is a red flag to keep an eye on.

S Barnes IP aFIP ERA BB% K% GB% Net ProS
2008 43.2 3.14 2.06 7.1 37.5 39.8 45 5.69
2009 141.1 4.35 3.41 8.2 23.1 37.2 30 4.87

 

TJ House (19.7, Low-A) – "Why don’t we draft more high-ceiling high school pitchers like T.J. House".  Probably because there aren’t many success stories like TJ House, at least based on his first full-season campaign.  As a 19-year old House held up well against the much older Sally League competition.  His numbers aren’t dominating, but that the Indians let him log nearly 135 innings speaks to his ability to keep himself out of trouble.  The Indians are careful about the high-stress innings their young pichers experience…House made it easy on them by not experiencing many.  Should get a nice test in Kinston in 2010. 

TJ House IP aFIP ERA BB% K% GB% Net ProS
2009 134.1 4.34 3.15 8.7 19.3 46.3 19 5.25

Francisco Jimenez (20.8, Low-A) – Of all the names on this list, Jimenez is probably the one you have most likely never heard.  2009 was his stateside debut having graduated from two years of pitching with the Indians Dominical Summer League team.  Jimenez logged just a little over 50 innings between short-season and Lake County, but he made quite an impression.  59 Ks, 7 BBs, and just 1 HR will do that.

F Jimenez IP aFIP ERA BB% K% GB% Net ProS
2009 47.1 3.54 2.28 3.8 31.7 47.1 41 5.17

Mitch Talbot (25.7, MLB) - Talbot had a brief stint in the majors in 2008, but has spent most of the past three seasons in AAA.  A victim of Tampa's pitching depth, Talbot was a good prospect who was passed over largely because of his questionable fastball (a year ago his changeup was identified by Baseball America as Tampa's best).  As the numbers below suggest, prior to his injury plagued 2009 he has shown the clear ability to control AAA hitters.  The only question now is whether he can get major league hitters out in Cleveland.

M Talbot IP aFIP ERA BB% K% GB% Net ProS
2006 156.1 3.43 2.76 7.2 23.7 51.2 82 8.53
2007 161.0 3.89 4.53 8.5 17.8 54.2 6 7.11
2008 161.0 3.06 3.89 5.1 20.6 54.7 66 8.62
2009 68.1 3.67 3.69 6.3 23.3 48.0 25 3.86

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Loving the serials. I have an idea for one that I have neither the knowledge or the time/energy to tackle: How to level the MLB playing field w/o a salary cap. Pros and cons of salary slotting for the amateur draft, international free agent reform, free agent draft compensation and revenue sharing/luxury tax could be serial topics. I know, it’s lazy for me to suggest work for others but I would love to see Jay or some other LGT stalwart tackle it. In any event, I’m really enjoying what you’re offering, APV. Thanks!

by MickS on Dec 21, 2009 8:31 PM EST reply actions  

I’m very interested to see how the Kinston rotation shakes out this year – Perez, White, De La, House, Hagadone could be in the rotation there to start the season.

Also, for what its worth, I read somewhere that Knapp won’t be ready for the start of the season.

by mcrose on Dec 21, 2009 8:47 PM EST reply actions  

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Indians place Hagadone aggressively and get him to Akron quickly. He isn’t young.

by APV on Dec 21, 2009 9:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t know why he wouldn’t just start the season in Akron.

by Jay on Dec 21, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

It wouldn’t surprise me. He does have just 5 innings at the high-A level, though.

by APV on Dec 21, 2009 9:25 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s more than Jeremy Guthrie has.

by Jay on Dec 21, 2009 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

You’re really on a Jeremy Guthrie kick right now.

by Brad D on Dec 23, 2009 9:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Want me to explain the fourth option rule again?

by Jay on Dec 23, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I would, but it’d be a pleasant surprise. I think he had 1 high-A start after his stint at LC last year. I just don’t think they have anyone skip that level.

But you’re right – age. If he starts with the K-Tribe and has success he’ll be the first promotion. He still has to prove himself in some way.

I still find it amazing after our CC, Lee and Martinez trades that the best bet prospect, from onset to follow thru, came from Casey Blake.

by mcrose on Dec 21, 2009 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m just saying, at his age, if he can’t adjust to Double-A hitters within a couple of months, doesn’t that make him a non-prospect?

by Jay on Dec 21, 2009 9:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, but I don’t think the brass looks at it like that – they see a guy with hold your breath potential coming off arm surgery that they will give every opportunity for success as he advances. Really, the best comp for him is Miller, mid-injury phase.

They HOPE he’ll be striking out AA hitters in a couple months. A month at Kinston could grease the rails, and be a better place to work stuff out if he doesn’t have immediate success. I think they want him to advance quickly, I just don’t think they’ll push him real hard until he shows something.

by mcrose on Dec 21, 2009 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

So what, he gets to the majors at age 27-28? That can’t be the plan.

Not that you ever ignore the surgery history, but you can’t keep treating a guy like he’s “coming off arm surgery.” When was that surgery?

by Jay on Dec 21, 2009 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s not like he has to spend a year at every level from now on. If he gets off to a good start this year, at any level, stays healthy and keeps it going he could be in AAA by the end of the year.

I just don’t think they’ll push him too hard right away. Of course, there’s still a chance he could be a reliever – mebbe in AA even

by mcrose on Dec 21, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, see, naturally Progress Score and Net love those 2006 and 2008 seasons for Talbot.

by Jay on Dec 21, 2009 9:31 PM EST reply actions  

I know essentially nothing about Jimenez, except that his numbers were very good. A near 32% K-rate and greater than 8:1 K:BB number are hard to ignore. About the only thing I can find about him is this quote from Lake County coach Aaron Holbert via Tony Lastoria:

“The most important thing is he is not scared. He came in one ball game in Lakewood recently with the bases loaded and nobody out and faced the first batter and struck him out with three pitches, the next guy in three pitches, and the next guy with I think five pitches. For me he does not get intimidated. I know he is a young pitcher and just over to the states this year, and you would never know it by his demeanor on the mound and his confidence out there. He mixes up a slurvy curveball with some changeups, but really he is coming after guys with his fastball. His fastball jumps a little bit, but it is actually high 80s to low 90s, it is not like he is overpowering but the swings that are being taken it looks like there is some deception in there. He is basically saying ‘if you can hit, hit it’ and I like his enthusiasm and confidence out there. It is paying off for him not being tentative or afraid of getting hit and afraid of contact.”

by APV on Dec 21, 2009 10:27 PM EST reply actions  

Sounds like Jeremy Sowers.

by odradek on Dec 21, 2009 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Except for the scared part

by mcrose on Dec 21, 2009 10:38 PM EST up reply actions  

When Sowers comes in, I’m the one who’s scared.

Everybody should get ice cream every day.

by Joel D on Dec 21, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

from the 5th inning on

by APV on Dec 21, 2009 11:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m scared the whole time. It’s like driving with the low fuel light on and no gas stations ahead. It may be a while until it goes bad, but I’m rueing it already.

Everybody should get ice cream every day.

by Joel D on Dec 21, 2009 11:10 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Jeremy Sowers: It’s just a matter of time before things go bad.

by odradek on Dec 22, 2009 12:24 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m tempted to put Knapp in the bin with Miller and SLewis. Tell me I’m wrong.

by dgcambridge on Dec 22, 2009 12:40 PM EST reply actions  

They’re all in the same bin. TINSTAAPP. It’s not that complicated.

by Jay on Dec 22, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I can’t get behind that. Obviously, the Indians shouldn’t take that view, and I’m not convinced that we should either. Surely we know more than this.

You mentioned Laffey as someone with problems staying healthy, but are we really saying that he has the same risk for this year as Lewis or Knapp (let’s leave Miller out of this)? Really, that’s all we can do? Where’s Will Carroll?

by dgcambridge on Dec 22, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Laffey isn’t a prospect.

by Jay on Dec 23, 2009 3:24 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s one factor.

by dgcambridge on Dec 28, 2009 1:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Hagadone is the most likely ace out of all of our minor league pitchers. He’s already past his surgery and everything I’ve read/his numbers indicate his stuff is really good.

That’s a dumb, fake scout analysis, all to say that Hagadone’s my horse.

by afh4 on Dec 22, 2009 4:36 PM EST reply actions  

this has photoshop potential

"I'm a baseball lifer. It's what I do." —Manny Acta

by westbrook on Dec 22, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

name removed. Ready for use in an appropriate thread.

"I'm a baseball lifer. It's what I do." —Manny Acta

by westbrook on Dec 22, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions  

I know I ask you to do this way too often … but how about whipping up some Progress Scores on the guys the Phillies just got for Cliff Lee? Should make for an interesting comparison.

by Jay on Dec 24, 2009 10:10 AM EST reply actions  

I’ll get to it, but maybe not till after the weekend

by APV on Dec 25, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions  

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