Adam Miller has final setback?
Twitter link until further details emerge.
UPDATE: Linked to AC's blog now.
Castrovince reporting this might be the last hurrah for the artist formerly known as Adam Miller.
8 months ago
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Here’s a little more. The Indians “have no timetable for his return to baseball activities.” I’d say the timetable is “never.”
Carlos Santana had surgery, too, to remove a broken hamate bone from his right hand. Reports say he’ll be ready for Opening Day.
This news about Santana is just soul-crushing. I guess it’s a good thing we have a veteran catcher on the roster. Oh, wait…
Surely If the Indians had an inkling this might be coming, they wouldn’t have traded Shoppach? On the other hand, if they did have a premonition, then maybe that would begin to explain the acquisition of Lou Marson. Certainly, the Santana surgery enhances the value of Marson and Wyatt Torregas…
by ken from alexandria on Dec 9, 2009 7:33 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t imagine this impacting that decision. Santana was never going to start the season in Cleveland, and Santana will still be playing baseball this season. As I said before, hamate breaks aren’t a joke, but they happen all the time in baseball. It is a common injury when players get hit in the hand.
by APV on Dec 9, 2009 8:01 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks, Adam, but I was just having some fun at Chris Jimenez’s expense.
by ken from alexandria on Dec 9, 2009 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
Not ahead of schedule? We hardly even had time to get our hopes up.
How long can we keep this guy on the 40-man?
by Jay on Dec 9, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
When I read this, I thought he might have died.
by afh4 on Dec 9, 2009 2:43 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I’m envisioning a montage of him packing his locker and walking out to his car alone, set to E.L.O.’s “Ticket to the Moon.”
by fleerdon on Dec 9, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
Upon you saying this, I actually pictured Adam Miller packing his bags and leaving town Matt Damon style in Good Will Hunting, with Ben Broussard’s Deep playing. He finally realized the one thing more important to him than baseball - was love.
I am comfortable enough on this site to admit that I have used that song as a ringtone before.
by JRontherim on Dec 9, 2009 10:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m not too thrilled about Santana’s broken hamate bone. They are not uncommon for baseball players, but they can have a real impact on batters.
Geez. How many times can this poor kid get kicked in the balls?
by MooneysRebellion on Dec 9, 2009 2:58 PM EST reply actions
by Brick. on Dec 9, 2009 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I’m not going anywhere near this comment….yikes.
by MooneysRebellion on Dec 9, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
And replace it with something resembling a jai alai scoop
by APV on Dec 9, 2009 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
I always wonder how the conversation between the photographer and Mordecai Brown went before they made this image.
“Say, put yer paw up there on that wall, see, and let me get a nice shot of that bump. That’s the idea”
“Thanks sport”
No, not you. Your helmet!
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 9, 2009 7:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
On one hand, surgical setbacks to Adam Miller aren’t really news anymore are they? Let me know if and when he makes some sort of progress.
On the other hand, a Miller-esque hand surgery to the catcher we’re all banking on announced in conjuction with Miller’s cursed hand is quite alarming.
No, not you. Your helmet!
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 9, 2009 3:15 PM EST reply actions
Hey, we’re not all neurosurgeons here. Hand, finger, whatever, it’s unsettling when these guys get these seemingly “minor” injuries.
No, not you. Your helmet!
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 9, 2009 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
“Is that a broken hand, Carlos? Yeeeeeeeeer hamate here!”
by fleerdon on Dec 9, 2009 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
he has been irrevelevant since 2007. he is our mark prior. no reason to keep him on the 40 man anymore.
i feel awful for him personally. what a blow it has to be to him and his family
This is where I am. Sucks for him and his family and friends, hardly even disappointing for fans anymore. Obviously it’d be nice to see him recoup and pitch, but at this point I don’t even care where it is.
Il faut d'abord durer.
I don’t feel bad for him unless he had a really awful investment advisor. I get that you can’t retire on $1MM in 2003 dollars, but it’s not as though he’s had to brown-bag it through his baseball career.
by fleerdon on Dec 9, 2009 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps just feel bad for him because he can’t fulfill his dreams to be a major league pitcher. It’s probably not even about the money anymore (if it ever even was to begin with).
How do we know it was his dream? What if he wanted to be a surgeon?
Now, of course, he probably couldn’t do that, either.
by fleerdon on Dec 9, 2009 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
If he had wanted to be a surgeon, he probably would have been diving into medical books and working toward his Ph.D in medical school. Instead, he was working out, throwing regularly, and keeping himself in shape to play baseball at the highest level – therefore, I think it’s safe to assume that that WAS his dream, moreso than being a surgeon.
That’s just like if you want to be an astronaut or a chef – if you’re wanting to be a chef, would you be taking tons of course in science, including chemistry, physics, etc., as an astronaut needs to? Doubtful.
So, I think it’s safe to presume that playing baseball was Miller’s dream, especially since he certainly had the aptitude and “gifts” for it – it’s too bad for him and his family that we will never know how much he could have excelled at it, and certainly, could have made much more money than $1MM (heck, look at the below-average players who have made more than that – no offense to former Indian Carl Pavano, but I don’t think anyone would say he’s been more than average at best throughout his career, yet he’s made MUCH more than $1MM).
That’s why it sucks for Miller, and why I agree with matt7 – I too feel bad for Miller. Best of luck to him in the future, in whatever he decides to do.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
I was just setting up a “bum finger” joke — in poor taste, of course, and I guess I should apologize if it bothers anybody.
I have no actual reason to question Miller’s motivation or aspirations. He’s evidently been enduring serious pain and tedious rehab that he could have largely avoided if he’d wanted out of baseball.
But I do think it’s worth remembering that most shattered dreams don’t come with a seven-figure consolation prize.
by fleerdon on Dec 9, 2009 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
Hello fleerdon,
I figured you were joking upon further reading – sorry for my post.
You’re right that most shattered dreams don’t come with a 7-figure consolation prize, though it still likely frustrates him that he can’t at least compete at a decent level, let alone at the level he was projecting to compete at (potential frontline starter or elite closer – that would have led to more 7-figure, 8-figure, and maybe even a 9-figure prize in his future).
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Maybe he was just in it for the money, though. You end up 200K in debt if you want to be a surgeon, and they pay isn’t as good.
Miller is a smart, competitive guy, obviously has an elite level of muscle control. I think there is ample evidence that he wanted to be a surgeon.
by Jay on Dec 9, 2009 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
Funny – I didn’t realize you had to have elite level of muscle control to be a surgeon. :-)
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Will Carroll via Twitter on Santana:
spring training [timetable] Some power loss in first season post
…meaning any power loss should only be temporary?
by cleveland teamer on Dec 9, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Have decided to resign the presidency and take a job with the #Brewers’ Venezuelan scouting operation.
April 1st from Hugo Chávez
Some power loss in first season post.
by Logodaedalus on Dec 10, 2009 1:13 AM EST up reply actions
Oof.
How many words and hopes have we wasted on Adam Miller? Tough break for him. Tough for his family too, I’m sure. And tough on the fanbase. You were my first big #1 prospect once I really started to understand baseball and the importance of a good farm system, Adam.
Steel Nick
Yeah, a lot of hopes were pinned on Miller, not only for how well he started out, but because from 2003 until last year, really, he was the only guy in the system that had the tools to be a dominant power starting pitcher. Fortunately, that’s no longer the case, but considering how hard I was rooting for him, I feel pretty bad for him right now. What a shame, and yes, good luck to him.
But since Santana is now our #1, what about the hamate? Anybody know the track record of complete recovery from such?
until last year, really, he was the only guy in the system that had the tools to be a dominant power starting pitcher
Actually, there was also Carmona and Cabrera over those years.
by Jay on Dec 9, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions
Cabrera was never projected as a front line starter after A ball (and by the time he came to prospect attention he was a closer), and Carmona was never considered a dominant starter until he came up and was for one year (even tho I thought he was a horse in 2003 at LC, I never had his ceiling equiv to Miller’s).
Neither of them ever occupied the same expectation space as Adam Miller did. Hence the hope and dreams, and me (and you?) feeling bad that he’ll probably never throw a major league pitch.
While feeling sad, I’m still more interested in whether a hamate removal will be a long term detriment for our future catcher/stud. What do you think? Is Santana damaged goods now? Is it an easy comeback from surgery?
It’s true that nobody had the combination of youth, pure stuff, and K rates that Miller had.
I think Andrew has the story right below … Santana’s power numbers may be down for 2010, but we don’t really care about that anyway.
I gotta say I take issue with Acta saying “its not a setback at all” in regards to Santana having surgery. Of course its a setback – its freakin’ surgery.
I liked Acta from the getgo, his awareness of the players and the depth in the system. I just don’t want him to absorb the weird injury pr responses that have marked the Tribe FO the last couple years. Injuries happen, fine. Just admit they’re hurt and need time to rehab.
If we’re going to have a new manager, I’d like someone who tells it like it is. I understand he’s the newbie, but really. Come playing time, if he offers such nostrums, I’m going to hate him real quick.
It really has nothing to do with him being a newbie, it has everything to do with doing what the man who he reports to wishes.
Welcome back, Sandy! ATALECG...
Like I said, come playing time I’d want Acta to be a force on his own, with his own voice. If not, he’ll be worse than Wedge. If Shap finally disengaged himself from being joined at the elbow to the manager, only to get a parrot, its pretty much a wash.
What you want and what are likely are in other worlds. Look, you know the track record of Shapiro, what are the chances that he is really that interested in having a manager who is just gonna go out there and shoot from the hip?
Welcome back, Sandy! ATALECG...
I think Shap wants a manager that will produce results and take the pressure off him. I don’t think Shap has anything invested in having a passive manager that will toe the company/corporate line for either internal or public approval.
That being said, there actually is a corporate line, established by Shap himself, already in place with a great deal of “excellent” influence, that Acta is walking right now, and it will be up to him and him only to walk it and still exert his own individual spin on it. He’ll be in charge of the team from day to day during the season, setting the tone.
I don’t want someone that shoots from the hip, I want someone who aims first.
Other than you contradicting yourself, what you’re talking about really little to do with his ability to manage. What he says to us means very little in regards to running the baseball team, as I see it.
Welcome back, Sandy! ATALECG...
Don’t see where I contradicted myself, altho if it came across that way, please point it out.
As far as Acta, we have very little to go on, and we’ll all be more familiar with his ability to manage a year from now. All we have now, apart from his apparent input in hiring a staff, is words, and to me this is the first false note, saying December wrist surgery is no setback at all (at the very least, Santana was playing winter ball for a reason, and he ain’t no more).
As I said, giving out misinformation over injuries was a hallmark of the latter Wedge era (not that he was solely responsible), and I’m hoping Acta is a real departure from that, in more ways than one.
Per the PD, he said it wasn’t a bad setback, not that it wasn’t a setback at all:
“This isn’t a (bad) setback for Santana,” said manager Manny Acta. “We’re thankful it was discovered at this time of the year. The only downside is that he didn’t get to play winter ball and work on some things.”If you believe the parenthetical comes from Acta, then what he said is completely accurate. It’s not a bad setback.
The bracketed word is added by the writer or editor to indicate meaning. Which I read to mean Acta didn’t suggest it wasn’t a setback at all, but the context meant he was regarding it as not a bad setback.
I don’t think Shap has anything invested in having a passive manager that will toe the company/corporate line for either internal or public approval.
there actually is a corporate line, established by Shap himself, already in place with a great deal of "excellent" influence, that Acta is walking right now,
Welcome back, Sandy! ATALECG...
ok, I see where you got the impression of contradiction, I should’ve expressed it better: what I was getting at was that Shap (imo) is trying to move away from some of the structure he himself setup.
When he hired Wedge I think they were both very idealistic about “the way things should be”, and that was reflected in Shap publicly handing his manager equal partnership as part of the “culture of excellence” he was actively trying to build.
I think he’s a little more sanguine about that now, and perhaps wants more traditional roles for the manager and gm. As in, not equal partners. Acta gets his turf, Shap is his boss. But that in itself is a transition – the old way of doing things isn’t that old yet.
I suppose that is where we differ. Yes, I feel like Shapiro has altered his views/goals, but I still think this is entirely his world, we’re just living in it.
Welcome back, Sandy! ATALECG...
Wrist injuries seem to be roadblocks to the major leagues that can be overcome, though. The wrist is a relatively simple joint, and doctors can address most problems surgically and get players back on the field quickly. Getting them back with their usual swing and power, though, takes time.
“Having wrist surgery isn’t great, but it’s pretty simple for most cases,” Mariners minor league trainer Mickey Clarizio says. "What causes the lack of power is just the fact that you’re having surgery. There’s blood in there, there’s some scarring, and it takes a while for the area to desensitize, especially if you have more invasive surgery.
“With all that, most guys don’t feel confident that they can just let go with their swing. But some guys do. Ken Griffey Jr. had it with us (in 1995), and he came back hitting home runs pretty quick.”
I’ll add that I think Santana will be fine both this year and going forward. Even if he loses some power he has a multitude of other skills at the plate that will let him keep his luster and then, pow, his power will return about when he gets a call-up and he’ll be a monster.
That’s a realistic hope. But realistically, he will spend more time in Columbus than he would otherwise.
by mcrose on Dec 10, 2009 12:17 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And if he uses that time to polish up his game-calling and defensive skills, then I find very little downside to that.
"Nobody ever thinks, 'Hey, maybe I’m actually an idiot.'" - Jay
by woodsmeister on Dec 10, 2009 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
Again, he was going to do that anyway. If he gets to Cleveland later than he would otherwise, due to injury setback, then that, by definition, is a downside.
why didn’t we shut down grady in july, again?
i guess questioning the terminology the team describes injuries in passing is worth getting riled up about. i think all he means is that this recovery isn’t going to have a significant-if-any impact on his playing time table. nothing more, nothing less. i highly doubt they don’t recognize this as being more bad for him then good. i just don’t think it’s far enough down that end of the spectrum to get worked up about for them.
I doubt the Indians were really going to promote him too quickly – I think they prefer letting him get some time in Columbus first – why do you think both Marson and Toregas are here. They will likely hold the fort until Santana is ready, just as Bard and Laker did for Martinez back in 2003 (2004?).
Certainly, you don’t want to see Santana injured, but perhaps Santana will focus on his hitting ability even more (more 2Bs, hits, BA, etc.) while his power is in “hibernation,” so in the long run, it could help him be an even more complete hitter (not that he’s doing badly now – he isn’t), while also working on his defensive skills.
As long as he can rebound from this injury, and the chances seem good by most to all accounts, then I think he and the Indians will be fine. Let’s hope (unlike Miller’s injury history).
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Thanks for the link. I’m more optimistic that its not career threatening, but more realistic in that it is a real setback for Santana’s timeline.
I don’t really know. He has a ton of complementary skills that are all far, far ahead of his catching. I think he’ll hit over .300; he luck-adjusted hit .322 and .297 the last two years. He’s also got those OBP skills and a good deal of speed (supposedly and doubles play that out). If he can just OBP .400 and slug .450 (or the other way around), I mean, lord.
Obviously, it’s not like you’re just subtracting power and maintaining all other skills perfectly but it’s just another chance to remind everyone how ridiculous this guy’s ability is.
Ah. My initial reply deleted for one of Carlin’s words. So – I don’t really care if Santana keeps his walks totals up, he’s proved that skill. Hitting is the thing, and to say that wrist surgery is not, at the minimum, a brief setback towards that end, is, well, one of Carlin’s words.
Needless to say, he will not be in Cleveland any earlier as a result. It definitely is a setback, even if for a few weeks or months.
I don’t really care if Santana keeps his walks totals up, he’s proved that skill. Hitting is the thing
I don’t see how he’s proved his hitting any less than his walking.
I think it’s critical that he keeps his walk totals up. If he doesn’t, it’s a sign that he can’t maintain a disciplined approach, or that scouting has caught up with him even before he jumps to the majors, or that he’s hurting. Walk rates are really not optional.
And I don’t see how hamate surgery affects his eye at the plate. Of course, his walks totals will go down if he’s a less dangerous hitter, for however long that is.
No, the point is that if Santana’s debut in Cleveland will be delayed, it will be because of his wrist, not his eye.
Or that they don’t feel he is quite ready to handle a major league pitching staff. You know, the main thing keeping him back as it is.
Welcome back, Sandy! ATALECG...
They already felt that. He was going to start in Columbus anyway. Unlike Laporta, he has a grace period.
Everything affects everything. If he’s not getting the bat around as quickly as he’s used to, he could start cheating by swinging early, which would bring down his walk totals. There are probably six or seven variations on this, where the wrist eventually brings down his walk totals. All of them bad.
I also really feel like being a switch hitter is an advantage here. From my understanding, the hamate bone would be more affected on the lower hand, the left hand for a RH and right hand for a LH hitter. So if we’re talking only half the swings he takes are very affected by this, then that is that much less stress put on the hand while it recovers. Maybe I’m really stretching here, but it feels logical to me.
Welcome back, Sandy! ATALECG...
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