Madden @ NY Post: Yankees should cut A-Rod, eat $270 million
Bill,
The idea that A-Rod's steroid use besmirches the Yankee brand is beyond ridiculous. This may be the team of Jeter and Rivera, but it is also the team of Clemens, Sheffield, Pettitte, Knoblauch, and Giambi, and now A-Rod as well. You could argue that no other franchise, not even the Canseco-Giambi A's, is so closely tied to the steroid era.
It's hard to figure where you're coming from on this. In the rest of America, it's no surprise at all that yet another Yankee star turns out to be a juicer. For that matter, the payroll has been all roided up for years. Competing with an unfair advantage isn't a blight on the Yankee brand -- it is the Yankee brand.
Jay
about 3 years ago
Jay
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It’s sure easy to say things like that when it’s not your $270 million.
New motto for New Yankee Stadium – The House That Roids Built.
Ooh – mocking the Yankee Brand © is fun and cathartic!
I also think that several other teams, starting with the Sawx would be waiting in line to let A-Rod besmirch them, contrary to Madden’s closing statement.
Wow. Just, wow. We’ve made fun of many dumb Hoynes articles, but has he every written anything as dumb as this? The Yankees should eat $270 million and cut A-Rod! Because he admitted to taking steroids 3 years ago! And he thinks the rest of baseball will applaud the Yankees for this? Yeah, because the other teams will get a chance to sign him. This is ridiculously dumb.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
I hear, on very good authority, that althought he has high school-level writing skills, he’s a very affable guy.
We need to invite Hoynes in here for a gamethread one day.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
Paul Hoynes: great columnist, or the greatest columnist?
by Jay on Feb 9, 2009 11:38 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Nice Colbert reference.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 10, 2009 7:28 AM EST up reply actions
Easily the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. We haven’t even come to any sort of concensus about the reprehensibility of taking PEDs, and this guy is on his soapbox screaming that a team should throw away half a bil. My word, the Daily News should pony up the 30 grand it’ll probably take to buy this clown out of the remaining years of HIS contract. I’d definitely pitch in to see a reporter bought out. Would be hysterical.
Wow, this guy actually gets paid to do this. Yankees aside, something has been bugging me throughout the whole steroids issue. We know Selig, Fehr and the owners allowed this to happen. But what about the clean guys (i.e. Schilling)? If the users were (theoretically) taking the non-users jobs, why did the non-users keep quiet about it early on? Maybe because the users raised the salary bar for everyone with their enhanced performance, and everyone benefitted, including the clean guys? It doesn’t make sense to me that if there were a bunch of clean players, that they all kept their mouths shut for so long. Did they all have some skin in this game? Just asking.
by kennesawmountainwahoo on Feb 9, 2009 8:53 PM EST reply actions
Fairly early on (before the 2003 survey test, I think) John Smoltz made some public comments to the effect that baseball should do everything in its power to clean up the game. Since later results and suspensions have demonstrated that pitchers were using PEDs as much as hitters were he has had much less to say on the topic.
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
I think part of it is that baseball is a macho sport, and like any fraternity there is a lot of cultural pressure to not “out” any of one’s colleagues. The baseball player fraternity is a relatively small family, and I’m not surprised that there were no clean players reporting on cheating teammates. This sort of “turning a blind eye” to wrong-doing happens all the time in all walks of life. I think that almost all players would be worried about being ostrasized for not being a “team-player.” Being a whistle-blower takes a lot of personal courage that most people simply don’t have. Again, I’m not really surprised. Maybe, this will change things.
I put a lot of words in quotes, didn’t I.
Plus the whole “don’t tell what goes on in the clubhouse” thing. Look at how Torre is getting ripped.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
Yep. I think I did a lousy job of making a point, though. To some degree, everyone has some guilt here, even if there was a lot of fear of repercussion. So why not just declare that, give Maris and Aaron their records back, throw the rest of this out, and get on with it? I’m enjoying getting back to baseball, instead of the slo-pitch softball we were watching, and as a fan, I’m sick of the subject. (and I am a Yankee-hater, I’m not defending A-Rod, I’m truly just sick of the subject).
by kennesawmountainwahoo on Feb 10, 2009 9:15 AM EST up reply actions
So how do you give Maris and Aaron their records back? Do you erase all the home runs ever hit by every player suspect of steroids? Does Arod start with zero career homers this year? Does Bonds lose every single home run he ever hit? How is that idea possible feasible?
The game is still baseball, even during the so-called steroid era. What about the era when the mound was raised and run scoring was way down — is that not real baseball? The game changes throughout history, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t still baseball. Also, steroids weren’t the only thing that contributed to more runs being scored. Ballparks are smaller now than they used to be, and that certainly isn’t going to change. This idea of getting back to the “good ol’ days” of baseball, which many writers constantly say, is silly — there never were good old days. Baseball always had problems, and it always will. That doesn’t mean it’s not a great game.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 10, 2009 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Remember you’re talking to someone named Kennesaw Mountain. He thinks in terms of extreme punishments.
Steel Nick
haha – notice that mine is spelled with two "n"’s (the real Kennesaw Mountain). There was a little “tongue-in-cheek” there with the records. And I am really doing lousy job of making my point, which really is, I’m really just tired of reading about PED’s, especially tests from years ago. Buckeye is right, baseball is a great game, and it’s a helluva lot more fun reading/thinking about how we’re gonna do this year.
by kennesawmountainwahoo on Feb 10, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
this is why i love baseball.
So 2009.
by Gradyforpresident on Feb 10, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, yeah, that’s the other point I was going to mention.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Feb 10, 2009 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
Hello kenyafan,
Additionally, it’s likely the Players’ Union would come down on them if they spoke out (maybe not officially, but I’m sure the PU would not look upon that outspoken player in a favorable light). It might not be quite as bad as playing during a strike, but probably would be close in terms of scrutiny and loyalty.
Just my 2 cents.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Let me see if I have this straight:
The Yanks should cut A-Rod — who has never failed a drug test as a Yankee — and allow any club to sign him for $400,000 per season? When the Boston Red Sox have only Julio Lugo and Jed Lowrie at SS??
Could someone tell me what I am missing here?
"I've never complained about it. I'm thankful to have a jersey." Mark DeRosa, 22 Aug 2007
It’s the New York Post, though. Saying it’s only use is as toilet paper is a malicious insult to toilet paper. I find Charmin more interesting and more useful.
Actually, they only have to eat $255 million – Shap can convince ownership to pay $15 million for A-Rod.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
The Yankees should definitely have to forfeit all the championships they won with A-Rod.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Feb 9, 2009 9:51 PM EST reply actions 18 recs
Help us, Fire Joe Morgan. You’re our only hope.
Really though, this would be awesome if the Yankees do it.
Rec for your reaction, Jay. And don’t think I don’t notice good tagmanship.
Steel Nick
Joe Sheehan in BP:
Of course, the screaming is about the screamers. The loudest voices on the evils of steroids in baseball are in the media, and there’s probably a dissertation in that notion, because for all that we have to hear about how greedy, evil players have ruined baseball by taking these substances (and then playing well, according to this selective interpretation; no one’s ripping Chris Donnels these days), the reason we’re talking about this in 2009 is that so many "reporters"—scare quotes earned—went ostrich in 1999. We hear every year around awards time that the people closest to the game know the game better than anyone, because they’re in the clubhouse every day, and they talk to everyone, and they have a perspective that outsiders can’t possibly understand. For those same people to do a collective Captain Renault, which they’ve been doing since beating up players for this transgression became acceptable, is shameful. Take your pick: they missed the story, or they were too chicken-shit to report it. In either case, the piling-on now is disgusting.
by odradek on Feb 10, 2009 2:41 AM EST reply actions 6 recs
Mr. Madden, what you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
by rolub on Feb 10, 2009 8:46 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
This is so random and I love it. Do you just wake up hungover and post in the first thread you click on? Is the dim glow from your laptop the brightest light you can take on days like these?
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Feb 10, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
i am not hungover at all. been drinking GOOD beer. guys i might have to retire PBR until the playoffs.
So 2009.
by Gradyforpresident on Feb 10, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Ah, nice. Whatcha been drankin’?
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Feb 10, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
IPAs like whoa, and Bell’s stuff
So 2009.
by Gradyforpresident on Feb 10, 2009 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
Yes. My favorite. What IPAs specifically?
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Feb 10, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
I would like GFP to have a conversation with indiansfan on LGT. Their styles are the total opposite. GFP looks like he only has .02 seconds in which he must effectively communicate his precise emotion, while indiansfan attempts to explain his precise point, in full, from the beginning, so that anyone can follow what he is saying, even if they hadn’t read any part of the previous discussion. Both are fine and appropriate for LGT, I think, but its the contrast that I think would be so beautiful.
by Ryan Kelsey on Feb 10, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
YES
A face to face interview, perhaps. Crossfire-style.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Feb 10, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
And indiansfan never appears to be drunk. No offense, GFP.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Feb 10, 2009 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
I love it- indiansfan goes into an articulate, wordy position on Grady Sizemore’s dominance… there is a pause… GFP says “I [redacted] love it- just [redacted] awesome.”
by Ryan Kelsey on Feb 10, 2009 8:25 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i am game. i think some people might not recognize my style at first though. it’s not quite the same, though similar.
So 2009.
by Gradyforpresident on Feb 10, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah if your Facebook style is indicative at all, I bet a lot of people would be caught off guard
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Feb 11, 2009 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
That’s a good idea! :-)
Seriously, that would be quite interesting – I think the first topic on the agenda would be “Ben Francisco.” That should create some lively debate (and GFP might take more than .02 seconds to explain his point – no offense, GFP. :-)
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Its not that big of a deal, but I kinda wish this wasn’t a front page article, a fanshot by Jay would be just fine. There’s been too much yankee talk this offseason, as I sit here trying to eat lunch at work, its just seeing the word “yankees” on the front page is making me lose my appetite.
Appreciate the feedback. My thought was (a) dumping on the Yankees is generally good front-page material, and anyway (b) we’re having a whole lot of A-Rod talk, it wouldn’t hurt to have just one thread on the front page. I will keep your comment in mind for the future.
Yeah I saw the comment numbers on the AROD post after posting this so it does make sense, its still the offseason and it is a hot topic. Just had a natural repulsion to the word “Yankees” gracing our front page in anything less than “…lose ALCS to the Cleveland Indians” or “…..finish with league worst record”.
If it had just been about the ESPN interview or the SI report, then I agree with hans, a fanshot would suffice. But the foaming at the mouth/moral outrage aspect of the article, along with Jay’s spot-on critique of it, was worth putting on the front page IMHO.
MLB2PDX!!! (someday...)
by The Cactus Leaguer on Feb 11, 2009 1:56 AM EST up reply actions
As painful as swallowing that $270 million might be, there will be consolation for the Yankees when no other team elects to besmirch their brand by taking in A-Rod – even for nothing.
Actually, I can name 28 other teams that would be more than happy to take Rodriguez off the Yankees’ hands (Kansas City would spend the $400,000 on Ray Durham instead).
by Pronk33 on Feb 10, 2009 8:20 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
This is a stupid article indeed, but I take issue with one thing.
You could argue that no other franchise, not even the Canseco-Giambi A’s, is so closely tied to the steroid era.
The Baltimore Orioles deserve their respect. Finger-waggin’ Palmeiro and lyin’ to agents Tejada are the superstars, but there’s also Slammin’ Sammy and Mitchell Report stars Roberts, Bigbie and Gibbons. The Orioles clubhouse was like a pharmacy.
"I was trying to rob him. And he took my gun from me. And the gun was full of blanks. And he shot a blank into my eye. And now I cannot see from this eye ever again, the doctors say."
"Well to be honest it sounds like it's all your fault."
They Yankees I hate. But the Orioles organization just disgusts me….well in a different way than the Yankees organization disgusts me.
To me, the Orioles are a sad organization. Once proud, but now just irrelevant. The only way I could protect my kids from becoming Orioles fans was to move them out of Maryland.
-Erik
Some would say that was a drastic move, I would say that’s good parenting.
by hans on Feb 15, 2009 2:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
steroids? those frosted tips a much greater crime against humanity, and a much better justification for cutting the rod and eating $270mm.
the rod’s lipstick in the gammons interview, on the other hand, was very tasteful.
let’s keep our eye on the ball, bill.
by DontCallMeJoey on Feb 18, 2009 10:49 PM EST reply actions
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