"In certain cities, you can hear people heckling you from the stands," Sizemore said. "There are so many people screaming in New York, it's just noise. They were loud today, too -- until when we went up 10-1."
almost 3 years ago
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Danny Knobler at CBS notes that the opening was not what one would have expected:
Something was wrong here, and we’re not talking about the final score. Yes, it’s true, the Yankees lost 10-2 to the Indians. But this was a quiet crowd when it was 1-1 in the sixth, and it didn’t really become an excited crowd until the Indians scored nine times in the seventh and the fans got the idea that Swisher ought to pitch.There was no roar when the Yankees took the field. There was little noise when CC Sabathia went to two strikes on a hitter, and not much more when Sabathia pitched out of trouble (which he did quite often).
Kind of an unfair shot. Usually an opening day crowd is not your typical fan. Especially in this case when you are opening a new stadium, then it becomes a place to be seen rather than watching baseball.
But it is something that could happen. I know when the new Browns bought their stadium it never seemed to reach the same decibels that the old stadium had. You had a different crowd in there and different acoustics.
That’s the way it is with most new stadiums, with the upper decks being higher because of the luxury boxes that all new stadiums have. It’s certainly not something unique to Yankee Stadium, but I’m sure it’s worse there with high prices of tickets all over the stadium. ESPN had a story about the higher ticket prices at both Yankee Stadium and Citi Field, and the lack of sales for some of the tickets there. The low-priced tickets are sold out but many of the higher-priced remain in both stadiums. But when you spend $1.5 billion on a stadium you gotta pay for it somehow.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 18, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
the new Browns bought their stadium it never seemed to reach the same decibels that the old stadium had
That’s because of the economics – the tickets for the new stadium put the game outta reach for the working-man – the core of real sports fans. What you’re left with is the white wine and brie crowd who’ve never played a down and don’t know if a football is stuffed or inflated.
Sports, as we know it now, is not the providence of the workin’ man – the guys who actually play the games – and more bread and circuses for the upper middle class. More’s the pitty.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
well,,, I think it has more to do with how bad the Browns have been and the whole “starting over” thing for them, there hasn’t been much connection between any of the players (maybe Dawson) and the fans as there has been such roster turn over every three years or so.
I don’t see too many brie eating fans there, just people who tailgate the hell out of it before the game starts and drink flat crappy beer once the game has started while watching the disappointment and hopefully passing out in their seats before the third quarter has finished.
I don’t think that’s what Toxic was referring to and it’s certainly not what I was thinking of. It’s more about atmosphere.
When I was a kid – back when the pterodactyls perched on the Terminal Tower – I would go to the Brown’s games with my Uncle Earl and sit in the bleachers, long before it was the Dog Pound. There’d be the guys from the Mill, construction workers – like most of my family – and guys from the stamping plants. Lots of Carhart’s, buckets of Kenny King’s chicken and a hip flask or twenty of Four Roses. Back in the day – before they put the nets up – if you caught the ball on the extra-point, you could keep it. If the Brown’s got a first down guys’d be screaming at 125dB and more than once I saw a guy fall outta the stands. If they actually scored a TD, you’d think it was VJ Day.
Fast-forward a few millennia: my brother and I get upper deck, season ticket, 300 buck-a-game seats, second row from the front, right exactly on the 50. We get in our seats – as is our want – 20 minutes before kick-off – and we’re all by ourselves. The other "fans" filter in mid-way through the first quarter. Browns scored TD – this was before Romeo, when they could actually score a TD – and our fellow seatmates would give it the ol’ golf-clap. Lotsa guys with camelhair overcoats, beepers – this was awhile back – and power ties. Ya, you read right – they was wearin’ ties to a goddam football game for chrissakes. Anyway, this was the picnic basket, chilled wine and Brie crowd. Lot’s of business talk – mostly lawyerly BS – and ego-centric hooey. Little talk about the actual football game and when they did talk about it, it was clear they had no clue.
Bottom line: it was a lot more fun and definitely more exciting back when you could buy a bleacher seat for five bucks. Plus, you got to hang out with a better class of people.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
I agree with you on the your bottom line, And going back and re-reading Toxic’s post I see that he was talking about that first season back, and yeah they did “price out” alot of the regulars that were there before. I still see some of that pre-new stadium crowd there but its simply not the same atmosphere.
So let me get this straight: the upper deck at the new Browns Stadium is like a polo match; working class people are better than upper middle class people and better fans; anyone who makes money most be a wine drinking lawyer and certainly can’t wear overralls; and working class people play sports, upper middle class people don’t.
While some of this a value judgment, the rest is simply not true.
Ya you got it. The upper deck in Cleveland – from inside the 20’s and close to the rail – is populated by a bunch of limp-wristed, slack-jawed, round-shoulder lawyer types.
Tell ya what Clark, name all of the players on the Indians that come from a privedged backgroud. Johnny? Raffy? Victor? Cliff? And we’re talkin’ ’bout baseball not either of the other two sports dominated by non-privedged kids.
Nope, sorry, there maybe some soccer player player of two in Hudson, but if you wanna find football and basketball players, try E152nd and Superior first.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
Well, my experience in the upper deck is different. Of the people I know that have season tickets are: a restaraunteur from Bucyrus, it’s not exactly a five star joint, but great food; a farmer; a retired school teacher; a factory worker at Whirlpool; a real estate agent; and yes, a lawyer. All of varying degrees of rowdiness, knowledge, and income. Take the farmer for example, wears his coveralls to any game in December, drinks way too much (unfortunately), played football in High School but knows very little about the team, rules, or strategy, and is also one of the richest dudes I know.
Unfortunately, there’s also several very drunk people that I don’t know that act like complete morons, and on more than a couple of occassions, I’ve seen fights between fellow Browns fans.
As to your other point, the fact that the a majority of the spectators of a sporting event and the majority of the players of that sport come from different backgrounds isn’t excatly a recent phenomenon nor isn’t even restricted to America.
I don’t know many of the backgrounds of our players, but I know that Hafner’s parents are farmers, Chase Utley is from a super-rich family from Pasadena, Beau Mills’ dad is the Bench Coach for the BoSox, and I have as much in common with Jhonny Peralta as Joe the Plumber does.
I actually wouldn’t be surprised if more and more athletes were coming from privileged backgrounds, with the combination of access to more coaching and development and the increased salaries of professional athletes.
I agree that it is unfortunate that going to the game is increasingly becoming more expensive. I just disagree on why it’s a bad thing. For me, it has nothing to do with letting in more rowdy, beer swilling people (flattering generalization of working class folks). It’s about access to a wonderful experience, one that shouldn’t be restricted to families making a ton of cash and also one that shouldn’t be restricted to men going to get wasted and swearing very loudly, which is something people of all backgrounds are capable of.
There are lots of generalities we could make about the players.
All are men, the vast majority aged 25-35 — are those the only good fans?
The majority of them have little or no higher education — are those the only good fans?
A large majority of them come from Latin America or American “red states,” and most have fundamentalist religious backgrounds, either Catholic or evangelical. Are those the only good fans?
Good fans come from all kinds of backgrounds, and there are good people and bad in every economic stratus.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
You’re talking about the fans, I’m talking about the players. The players – the gladiators as it were – are, for the most part, from disadvantaged background, kinda like the original gladiators. But the spectator seating is beginning to look an awful lot like the Colsseum – the Falvian Amphitheater – of ancient Rome.
This from Wikipedia:
According to the Codex-Calendar of 354, the Colosseum could accommodate 87,000 people, although modern estimates put the figure at around 50,000. They were seated in a tiered arrangement that reflected the rigidly stratified nature of Roman society. Special boxes were provided at the north and south ends respectively for the Emperor and the Vestal Virgins, providing the best views of the arena. Flanking them at the same level was a broad platform or podium for the senatorial class, who were allowed to bring their own chairs. The names of some 5th century senators can still be seen carved into the stonework, presumably reserving areas for their use.
The tier above the senators, known as the maenianum primum, was occupied by the non-senatorial noble class or knights (equites). The next level up, the maenianum secundum, was originally reserved for ordinary Roman citizens (plebians) and was divided into two sections. The lower part (the immum) was for wealthy citizens, while the upper part (the summum) was for poor citizens. Specific sectors were provided for other social groups: for instance, boys with their tutors, soldiers on leave, foreign dignitaries, scribes, heralds, priests and so on. Stone (and later marble) seating was provided for the citizens and nobles, who presumably would have brought their own cushions with them. Inscriptions identified the areas reserved for specific groups.
Another level, the maenianum secundum in legneis, was added at the very top of the building during the reign of Domitian. This comprised a gallery for the common poor, slaves and women. It would have been either standing room only, or would have had very steep wooden benches. Some groups were banned altogether from the Colosseum, notably gravediggers, actors and former gladiators.
Kinda sounds like the New Yankee Stadium, don’t it?
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
Listen to Paul Theroux, who’s one of my favorite writers, describe a soccer match in El Salvador in the late 1970s in The Old Patagonian Express. Note: the term “Suns” refers to the seats in the sun; the term “Shades” refers to the occupants of the seats in the shade.
It was, those 45,000 people, a model of the Salvadorean society. Not only half of the stadium where the Suns sat (and it was jammed: not an empty seat was visible); or the better-dessed and almost as crowded half of the Shades (at night, in the dry season, there was no difference in the quality of the seats: we sat on concrete steps, but ours, being more expensive than the Suns, were less crowded); there was a section that Alfredo had not mentioned: the Balconies. Above us, in five tiers of a gallery that ran around our half of the stadium, were the Balcony people. Balcony people had season tickets. Balcony people had small rooms, closet-sized, about as large as the average Salvadorean’s hut; I could see wine bottles, the glasses, the plates of food. Balcony people had folding chairs and a good view of the field. There were not many Balcony people—two or three hundred—but at $2000 for a season ticket in a country where the annual per capita income was $373, one could understand why. The Balcony people faced the screaming Suns and, beyond the stadium, a plateau. What I took to be lumpish multicolored vegetation covering the plateau was, I realized, a heap of Salvadoreans standing on top or clinging to the sides. There were thousands of them in this mass, and it was a sight more terrifying than the Suns. They were lighted by the stadium glare; there was a just-perceptible crawling movement among the bodies; it was an anthill.
One difference is that the Roman Gladiators were mostly slaves and today’s athletes are handsomely rewarded. Progress. So one benefit of the game being capitalized is that the disadvantaged kids that make it get paid. The downside, as you’ve noted, is that there’s less access to the game for the disadvantaged fans. Though, I do think there is a way to do both.
A lawyerly interpretation. For every Albert Pujols there’s 50 guys you’ll never hear of who got send back to the Dominican or Venezuela or Compton who will never, ever see a Major League minimum paycheck.
So yeah, once in awhile a hard-working, athletically gifted kid gets to cash in big-time, but then again, once and awhile a gladiator could cash in too and gain his freedom. Happens/ed with about the same frequency. I’m a little skeptical about the “progress” part.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
For every Pujols? There’s 500 guys who don’t make it, possibly 5000.
I think ClarkM makes a reasonable point, but then again, if the game was only 20% as capitalized, then Pujols would still end up with $25 million, and the game would be accessible to just about everyone.
The other side of it is that the minor league experience has gotten more and more worthwhile for families and is still within their reach.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Nope, my Uncle Earl – Lefty to his friends. A near-do-well who never, as far as I know, held a real job for any length of time, but he was best friends with “Junior” DeMarco, Johnny the Mouse’s kid. Uncle Earl taught me damn near everything I know about sports, the ponies – got me my first job cleanin’ stables at Randall – figurin’ odds and how to hot wire a car – just in case you forgot your keys.
Sure do miss my Uncle Earl.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
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