Realities In Which Eric Wedge Is Fired
by afh4 on Apr 28, 2009 12:08 AM EDT
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PrintCLEVELAND -- Shapiro seemed genuinely confused over Wedge's decision. "Did he ask me if I thought Kerry Wood should make a spot start? Uhh...no. No, he did not ask me and that's why we're having this conversation today."
CLEVELAND -- There's no word on whether or not charges will be pressed on the former Tribe manager but it is clear that everyone is surprised, saddened, and afraid. "It doesn't make any sense-even if you wanted to try to give [Adam] Miller a finger transplant, you shouldn't try to acquire that finger on your own," said a somber Chris Antonetti. "That's something you do at the hospital not in the back of the clubhouse-and before you say anything, I don't care if Graffanino said he was ok with giving it to Miller. That guy was as crazy as Wedge. Plus his hands aren't anywhere near big enough."
CLEVELAND -- When asked how long he'd known about Wedge's "costume issues" Garko downplayed the issue. "I don't know. I don't know that I ever really totally knew, you know? One time Ronnie, that's Slider, the guy who plays Slider, I saw him walking around looking for the Slider pants-the bottom half of the Slider suit. So, that was the first time I ever thought about it. It was probably a couple of weeks later that I saw all that purple fluff stuck to Eric's desk chair." Garko said he didn't think anything of it at the time.
Sizemore said he didn't know anything about the "costume issues" until he saw Wedge wearing them on the bench in the game against the Tigers. "At first, I assumed it was a joke but then I heard he wouldn't take them off. I don't know. I guess they tased him. That's what I heard anyway,"
CLEVELAND -- Progressive Field has a zero-tolerance no firearms policy but "the player and personnel entrance isn't typically screened" for dangerous items, an Indians spokesperson explained. "My understanding," Shapiro explained, "was that Eric thought it would get the guys pumped up just to show it off in the clubhouse before the game. He got going on a pre-game speech and I guess Datz was really egging him on and he got very excited and the firearm discharged. Obviously, that wasn't his intent but that was the result."
The two outfielders are each recorvering at the Cleveland Clinic; in the interim, the Tribe has yet to formulate a plan for how to move forward without Francisco and Crowe. "It's very unusual to see two people wounded on one bullet but it's not unheard of," said Cleveland Chief of Poice Edward Lohn.
CLEVELAND -- "A lot of the things the Yankees do, we admire them. It's a well run organization," Wedge commented when asked about Sabathia's transition to New York in a pregame press conference.
<snip>
Eric Wedge's immediate termination was announced by Indians General Manager Mark Shapiro just minutes before game time. Joel Skinner has been named the interim manager.
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I’ll start working on a quantitative model to predict the likelihood of each of these in just a minute…
You and Andrew and Ryan and Jay are like Legion of Doom and Demolition
Free LaPorta; when proper.
by Gradyforpresident on Apr 27, 2009 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
There are subtleties to this type of comedy that I simply will never master. Andrew is the Pujols of his profession.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 27, 2009 10:31 PM EDT reply actions
CLEVELAND — In a shocking turn of events, Cleveland Indians manager Eric Wedge was fired Thursday afternoon.
….
The tipping point in discussions appears to have been when Shapiro and other front office staff discovered that some of Wedge’s messages on the cleveland.com Indians discussion boards, under the username “KC4evs”, were posted during Indians games.
“I didn’t even know we had any computers [in the clubhouse],” said clubhouse presence Tony Graffanino.
Okay, so WGK3 gets caught at Hopkins with a pistol in his carry-on. The TSA slobs find a bag of coke. No choice but to get rid of Eric. Who comes on board? Lovullo? I vote for a Hispanic manager, just because. A Venezuelan manager?
as in like a player-manager? maybe one who wears #41?
Ben Francisco: An Outfielder only on baseball cards and roster sheets.
I would love that. The return of the player-manager would rule.
I'm *always* in the driver's seat, cugino -- Chuck
by Turkmenbashi on Apr 28, 2009 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Manny said he wants to come back to Cleveland — how about Manny as player/manager? That would significantly boost ratings and attendance, for sure.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 28, 2009 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Willis: Manny…should we get Wood up?
Manny: (uncontrollable giggling)
by DontCallMeJoey on Apr 28, 2009 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
While there certainly will be some dark days ahead for the Francisco and Crowe families as well as in the Indians’ clubhouse, some fans were able to find a silver lining in today’s tragedy. “cheapskates dolans gotta call up the slugger we traded cc for now,” [sic] wrote one fan on Cleveland.com, referring to phenom OF/1B prospect Matt LaPorta. “he’s gonna do 380 and hit 35 dingers, maybe 50 without wedge giving him that red light on 2-0 counts. thems hitters counts.”[sic]
by SanD on Apr 28, 2009 2:43 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Ah, you’re one of those “teach the controversy” people.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Apr 28, 2009 7:26 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously. I’m just saying that calling up LaPorta shouldn’t be restricted to just those cleveland.com unwashed.
But really, it is, once you really understand the performance metrics and costs. You can’t really think that the difference between LaPorta and Francisco is worth more than a million per week.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
I’m with Joeee here. Objectively, no, it’s not really close. But there are scenarios where it might be—I hate to go back uncreatively to the same anecdote, but it’s hard to believe that 50 games of Craig Counsell instead of Ryan Braun wasn’t a but-for cause of the Brewers missing the playoffs by 2 games in 2007.
If you play the season from here 1000 times, maybe 900 or 950 times, the difference between LaPorta and Francisco isn’t the ultimate difference. But to say there’s not at least room for debate is untrue. It’s also sort of unfair to cut off summarily everything we have to vent about when the losses are piling up. Few of us are really in a celebratory mood right now.
And besides, dissent is patriotic.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 28, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe I’ll throw in a Trade Lee! just to be difficult.
Trade Lee NOW!
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 28, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but he still put up a WARP3 of 3.0 in 112 games. I rounded up again to get to 2 wins, but at that level of precision the timeliness of production makes a difference—a standard of error of sorts. Maybe he gets a walkoff hit against the Cubs early in the season—there’s your two wins.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 28, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Dissent is patriotic, but intellectual dishonesty is not. Nor is deluding yourself into a dishonest position.
Let me get this straight — Braun puts up an mle-OPS of 671 in 2006, with bad defense, has never played above Double-A … and the Brewers are supposed to give him the big-league job out of spring training over a veteran with great defense?
That’s just 20-20 hindsight. If you want to talk about decision making, you have to stay focused on the actual facts upon which decisions were made, not just what happened later. Based on hindsight, you could ask, was Boston wrong to acquire Marte, or were they right to trade him? And the answer is, it makes no difference, because there’s no instructive value to looking at decisions in hindsight.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Well, my back of the envelope calculations have LaPorta at .786 MLE last year, and that was probably an underestimate of his actual level, as the shuffling between teams, leagues, continents, and getting beaned in the head obviously affected him.
And when he was called up, Braun was off to a dominating start in his first turn at AAA, like LaPorta is at this moment. So I think the situations, based on the information at hand, are quite similar.
Look, you’ve got me defending a position I don’t actually believe in. I do not think another month will mean the season, and I think they should let his service time roll over. I’m just saying that there are reasonable reasons to believe it.
And if that makes me uninformed, well, I’ll just have to live with the stigma.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 28, 2009 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Not sure why we need the back of your envelope when we have minorleaguesplits.com … which tells us the number is 720 … however I am willing to stipulate to the Hunstville-only number of 720.
We also have projections for 2009, ranging from 747 to 775 OPS. And let’s say you went to Sean Smith or Bill James and Nate Silver or Jeff Sackmann and said, “But wait! I have 18 games of additional data!” How much do you think their projections would change?
Emotionally, we naturally assume LaPorta is obviously, obviously way on the high-side of all those 2009 projections now. Rationally? Not so much.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
I didn’t know they had MLEs there. That’s a lot more useful (read: accurate) than what I was doing. Anyway, I’m officially conceding this argument since I agree with you on the actual strategy.
It’s just so [redacted] hard to watch a team this good lose every night.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 28, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it okay if I keep going even though you conceded?
Okay, let me concede something. It comes across as awfully arrogant and even uncivil to say, essentially, the other side doesn’t even have a valid argument to make. I know that.
Here’s the thing, though. We don’t debate RBI vs. OBP here. It’s settled.
We don’t debate whether we should have been trying to outbid the Yankees for Teixeira, or even the Dodgers for a two-year deal with Manny. These things are well understood by folks here in the context of the Indians’ specific situation, and if you’re going to make a serious case for something like that, then you’d better bring some whopper of an argument such that nobody has really considered the issue from that standpoint before.
So here’s the thing. If my math is wrong, please correct me. There is more chance that my math is wrong than that I’ve discovered something the front office doesn’t know about — trust me. But if my math isn’t wrong, then the situation is clear-cut. There are folks out there who wanted us to bring back Omar or Manny. If my math is right, then calling up LaPorta isn’t even one smidge more justifiable, i.e., less ridiculous, than bringing back Omar or Manny, or risking $200 million on Teixeira or for that matter $160 million on C.C.
You wouldn’t expect me to give much respect to those propositions, would you? Well, if someone can explain to me, based on the math, how this is really and truly any different, I’ll be glad to hear it. But if you can’t do that, and if you haven’t found a mistake in my math, then it really is just as clear-cut.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
the sooner we bring him up, the sooner we can have articles by CBS about when we’ll trade him to a real contender.
by Brick. on Apr 28, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
beaned in the head obviously
Let’s not start this controversy again
I'm *always* in the driver's seat, cugino -- Chuck
by Turkmenbashi on Apr 28, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
We were talking about calling up LaPorta, not firing Wedge.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Just to be clear, for those who are well informed, I think there are more reasonable arguments for firing Wedge than for calling up LaPorta (just yet). I don’t advocate firing Wedge, but it’s much less clear-cut on the basic facts as to whether he’s doing a good job. You want to tell me Skinner would do better, I think you could make a decent case. There is no real case for spending $1 million per week to upgrade from Franciscrowelucci to LaPorta.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
How about we do it if only for name simplification?
I'm *always* in the driver's seat, cugino -- Chuck
by Turkmenbashi on Apr 28, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree. I think calling up LaPorta probably makes sense from a pure baseball standpoint, but not from a long term management/salary point.
As far as Wedge, it’s hard to make a rational argument for or against almost any manager. So much of what they do is by the book or at least by the old school book that making a list of errors just doesn’t add up to much in the way of concrete wins/losses.
So arguing this rationally is difficult. It’s more of a we’ve seen this guy for 7 years and he’s done OK, but not great. Maybe it’s time to try something new type of argument.
Which sucks, but that is basically it.
Someone asked Rob Neyer this in a chat yesterday, and he said basically that Wedge isn’t doing anything wrong but that doesn’t mean someone else can’t do it better. No, the problems on this team aren’t his fault, but maybe someone else can better utilize the parts the Indians have.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 29, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
with apologies … i’m not tracking the $1mm per week cost for bringing LaPorta up. assist, please?
by DontCallMeJoey on Apr 28, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions
If we call him up before late May and he plays well, he likely will reach arbitration eligibility a year earlier. That will end up costing the team something between zero and $20 million. My best guess is $6 million, but the better he plays long-term, the more this decision ends up costing us.
If we wait another 4-5 weeks before calling him up, this extra cost ceases to be a possibility.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
If anyone cares, Neyer wrote about LaPorta today in his blog. Someone asked him why LaPorta was still in Columbus while Francisco/Crowe were hitting .180. Here was (part of) his response:
Anyway, LaPorta’s simply been destroying International League pitchers: .368/.436/.706 in 19 games. Meanwhile, Francisco and Crowe are destroying nothing except the fervent hopes of the Forest City’s tender youth.
So what in the name of Rocky Colavito are the Indians thinking? Well, yeah: they might be trying to save a few bucks by delaying LaPorta’s arrival in the majors for another week or two. They might also not be completely convinced that he’s ready. After all, those 19 games with Columbus are the only games he’s played above Class AA.
It’s only April, and these things do tend to find their natural balance. If LaPorta keeps hitting and those other guys don’t, he’ll be up. And my guess is that he’ll be up real soon.
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 29, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Interesting “More from Lets Go Tribe!” link above. Wonder what the algorithm is that comes up with that, and only that?
Speaking of which, I was always amazed that nobody noticed the Wedding Crashers reference therein.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
http://www.letsgotribe.com/tags/eric%20wedge
Ben Francisco: An Outfielder only on baseball cards and roster sheets.
Take Adam and Andrew out of the FanPost equation and we really don’t have much use for the darn things, do we?
by fleerdon on Apr 28, 2009 3:55 PM EDT reply actions
I’m working on a really great one positing why Jason Davis will end up being our best starter and why we should hang on to him at all costs.
I’ve been working on it for a while.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Apr 28, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
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