Game 22: Red Sox 6, Indians 5
by Ryan on Apr 30, 2009 1:01 AM EDT
in Game Recaps
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PrintThe Red Sox charitably allowed the Indians back in the game last night. Tonight the Indians returned the favor.
Fausto Carmona is trending in the right direction. For a span of three innings he was the dominant pitcher from 2007, throwing pitches that couldn't have been put into the air by a catapult. At one point he retired twelve in a row, and the game was slowly but surely edging towards a solid victory for the Indians. Carmona took a 5-0 lead into the sixth and got the first two batters of the inning to ground out. But Jason Bay, who had been a force all series, drew a seemingly innocuous walk. Two doubles later, the lead was three, still a decent margin, but now within striking range.
The Indians had had opportunities to build a bigger lead early in the game, and perhaps knock starter Jon Lester out of the game quickly, but after Shoppach's home run with no one out in the fifth, he settled down to retire the next nine batters and hand over the game to the bullpen with a surmountable deficit.
The game was still firmly in hand as the eighth started; a three-run lead is a pretty safe lead with six out to go, as the FanGraph attests. Even after Boston got runners on first and second, the odds were in Betancourt's favor to leave at the end of the inning with the lead. But Mark DeRosa's bobble of a possible double play opened the door wide for the comeback, and the two singles later, the game was tied. A day after a couple of botched force plays handed the Indians a victory, the Indians let Boston back in the game.
Once the game was back to even, Cleveland was at a disadvantage thanks to a lack of back-end options. Kerry Wood wasn't going to pitch on four straight days, and Tony Sipp wasn't available after throwing in two straight. It fell to Jensen Lewis, who had given up the game-scoring single, to pitch multiple innings.
The Indians were only going with a two-man bench thanks in part to yesterday's short outing by Anthony Reyes, for instead of replacing the injured Travis Hafner with a position player, the Indians needed to add one more arm to the bullpen for just this one game. So Kelly Shoppach was the DH for this game, the first time either catcher DHed all season. When Victor Martinez walked with one out in the ninth, he would have been taken out of the game in favor of Trevor Crowe had the Indians had even a three-man bench. But since the game was tied and removing Martinez would have meant losing the DH, Wedge had to let him run for himself. The way things played out afterwards, Crowe wouldn't have scored, but who knows how he would have affected Okajima's pitches to Shin-Soo Choo.
After the Indians failed to score in the eighth and ninth innings despite a couple good opportunities, Lewis came out for the tenth, and almost pulled off a 1-2-3 inning. With two outs, Jonathan Van Every stepped to the plate, a former Indians prospect who had lots of power but had trouble making contact. Unfortunately he connected on a high fastball and crushed his first major-league home run far over the center field fence. And for the second time in three games, the Indians lost a game in which they had gone into the ninth tied, a situation that normally favors the home team.
Next Up: Pavano vs. Galarraga, Friday at 7:05 PM.
| Highest WPA | Lowest WPA | ||
| Victor Martinez | .196 | Grady Sizemore | -.309 |
| Ben Francisco | .189 | Rafael Betancourt | -.249 |
| Fausto Carmona | .181 | Jensen Lewis | -.215 |
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If we want to work our way into contention this season, there’s still plenty of time, but we won’t have a large margin of error. And games like this are a kick in the nuts with a steel-tipped boot. I mean, that game thread was a party. No one was even considering losing.
Yeah, I think that’s what made me most sad
I'm *always* in the driver's seat, cugino -- Chuck
by Turkmenbashi on Apr 30, 2009 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I do not like hearing this. Here’s wishing you happier times.
by tabler84 on Apr 30, 2009 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Here’s the most soul-crushing aspects of last night’s game for me:
- When Grady came up with the tying run on second in the bottom of the tenth, I had no confidence that he would come through. None. Zip. Nada. That sucks.
- Listening through the magic of radio to all the Boston pseudo-fans partying in our house, a bunch of front-running poseurs who think Yaz is either a form of birth control or Vince Clarke and Alison Moyet.
by FredOx on Apr 30, 2009 9:10 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
in regards to your #2 point. The Indians are playing pretty terrible baseball right now, and its indefensible for them to lose both the Boston and Minnesota series at home and expect attendence to turn around. I mean the Cavs have been off the whole week and they couldn’t take advantage by creating some buzz and winning or heaven forbid sweeping a home series.
Bleh. Losing last night only breeds more of this brilliance at cleveland.com:
“I had planned on going to at least 10 games this summer. No way now unless Wedge and all his wedgisms are gone. I’m fed up with the team and with wedge. Peralta will never be above average in hitting or fielding. Send him down. Sizemore is NOT a leadup hitter. Batting first means you get on base WITHOUT striking out. You certainly can drive in a run every once in awhile. Hafner is done. Dellucci? Gosh; he’s the guy who will right the ship. LOL”
Who are these people?
Outside of the Sizemore thing, is there really anything that egregious here? I mean, I disagree with him and the way it’s phrased, but you can’t blame people for feeling this way. This team is atrocious.
I'm *always* in the driver's seat, cugino -- Chuck
by Turkmenbashi on Apr 30, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
“Peralta will never be above average in hitting.” Really? Never? Did he want to check the last five seasons to find out?
Refusing to go to games until the manager is gone? Did Wedge cause DeRosa to kick away last night’s game?
Hafner is done? Is he a doctor? Did he watch Hafner’s performance to start the season?
And is anyone saying that Dellucci is the cure to what ails us?
So, yeah, the whole thing is egregious. The whole thing.
I don’t disagree with you, Evan, I just think that there’s no sense getting worked up about it. What if this guy is having his own bout of “intentional overreactions?” We’re all prone to say stupid stuff in the heat of the moment, even us LGTers. There’s just no sense trying to guess a Cleveland.com commenter’s state of mind.
Rallying against terrible sportswriting in the mainstream media? Now that I can get behind. But the commenters? Who cares, honestly.
I'm *always* in the driver's seat, cugino -- Chuck
by Turkmenbashi on Apr 30, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Refusing to go to games until the manager is gone? Did Wedge cause DeRosa to kick away last night’s game?
I would say to read this as “Refusing to go to games until the team starts winning”. This is really what person is saying, he’s simply throwing out the typical illogical changes that he/she thinks will solve the problem of them not winning. I can completely understand this point, why spend money on something that is a terrible experience and watching the garbage play we’ve seen for the most part of the this season is just that.
why spend money on something that is a terrible experience and watching the garbage play we’ve seen for the most part of the this season is just that.
because nothing beats sitting at the Jake watching on a summer night
For the life of me, I have absolutely no grasp of why people talk about strikeouts with regard to hitting leadoff. It is absolutely baffling.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
I can see people talking about strikeouts in general with a guy like Grady. With his speed, I would hope that putting the ball into play more often rather than less often would be good for him.
Sometimes, I just like to b****.
When a guy has the power to hit 30-35 HR, that cannot possibly be the case. You’ve got to play to maximize homers instead of singles, not to mention, the fact that Grady is fast doesn’t make him more of a contact hitter.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
What about a guy like Stan Musial? Clearly, 30 HR power but low Ks and a higher BA?
I know Stan is one of the greats, and Grady probably isn’t in his league, but it’s possible to do both.
Sometimes, I just like to b****.
I’m not sure what you’re asking here.
Stan Musial is one of the very best hitters ever to play the game. I would rather have him up there in any situation than any player currently on the team.
Having said that, playing in this era, he may well have had 40 HR power and more strikeouts.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
You know something, I thought I was in that Sizemore/Garko discussion from that other thread.
Musial was a phenomenal hitter and maybe just not the same guy as SIzemore.
From Wikipedia:
At the time of his retirement, Musial was among the all-time leaders in many offensive categories—first in Total Bases and Extra-Base Hits, second in Hits, Doubles, Runs Created, Games Played and At Bats, fourth in Runs and Runs Batted In, fifth in Walks, sixth in Home Runs, and eighth in Slugging Percentage and On-Base Plus Slugging Percentage (OPS). His 3,630 career hits made him the National League’s all-time leader on that list at the time, and second in the major leagues to Ty Cobb. He still ranks fourth all-time, behind Pete Rose, Cobb and Hank Aaron. Musial’s 3,630th and final hit was a single beyond the reach of Rose, then a rookie second baseman.
The rise of Bill James and the extensive use of sabermetrics has enhanced Musial’s credentials as not only one of the greatest of his generation, but of all baseball history. At Baseball-Reference.com, Musial is consistent among the various test leaders: He ranks fifth all-time among hitters according to the Black Ink Test (behind Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby, and Ted Williams), third all-time on the Gray Ink Test (behind Cobb and Hank Aaron), tied with Barry Bonds for second in the Hall of Fame Career Standards Test, behind only Ruth, and ranks first among all hitters and pitchers on the Hall of Fame Monitor Test. Surprisingly, despite his towering reputation with statistic-based aficionados of the game, many common fans are unaware of his achievements, leading ESPN and other organizations to list him as the most underrated athlete of all-time.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
I wasn’t trying to directly compare the two at all, but just trying to demonstrate that it is possible to have a power hitter who doesn’t K as often as we think power hitters should or normally do.
Maybe it is an ‘era’ thing.
I mean, Musial’s K numbers are almost absurdly low. I also took a look at Duke Snider (a Grady comp) and his BB and K numbers are more in line with what we’d might expect. Also, I hadn’t realized Grady’s K numbers fell last season.
And yeah, Musial is pretty awesome.
Sometimes, I just like to b****.
But what you’ve actually demonstrated is that it’s “possible” if you’re one of the ten best hitters of all time. It’s possible just like being a 40-40 guy is possible. That doesn’t mean you fault a guy for not being that kind of very rare player.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 1, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d like to see Grady strikeout less. I’d also like to have seen Carlos Baerga collect 3000 hits with the Tribe in the 90s. And it would have been sweet to see Pearl Jam play pickup basketball against the WMMS DJs back in 1991 at Valley Forge High.
Since none of those are going to happen, I guess I’ll just deal with Grady being a freaking sweet hitter who strikeouts some.
Il faut d'abord durer.
What do people feel about this statement:
A manager should be fired when a team is struggling in the absence of any obviously more direct corrective measure
I’m 50/50 on it
I'm *always* in the driver's seat, cugino -- Chuck
by Turkmenbashi on Apr 30, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I think you can change the makeup of a team by moving a few players and removing a few secondary coaches and still get the same effect of “shaking it up”,
That’s the frustration of having a long tenured manager, there is an aura of “staleness” with the ballclub when things are going bad. Expectations are always ramped up each successive year and it gets to the point of ridiculousness. You can look at Torre with the Yankees or that Fulmer with Tennessee’s football program.
That being said, I would love for Wedge to be gone by the end of 2010. We could have significant turnover with the roster by the end of that season and I would love for there to be a “new voice” to represent that change.
Sure you could do that. But getting rid of the manager is a little bit more symbolic, for whatever that is worth.
That aura of “staleness” is experienced by the fans, but it bears no relation at all to what’s really going on with the team.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
You’d have to ask John Hart. My sense of it was that he wanted a different kind of leader in the clubhouse. Charlie is a baseball lifer, and he’d work all day with the club and then hang around late talking baseball for hours with whoever else was around. Grover had a more 9-to-5 approach and didn’t feel all that extra talk was necessary. Hart saw an opening to put in “his guy,” and he took it.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Re: John Van Every…
A buddy of mine used to be a bat boy for the Captains. He said he and JVE had a bet that JVE would never make the majors. This buddy was at the game last night. I told him he shoulda stabbed JVE when he had the chance.
I'm *always* in the driver's seat, cugino -- Chuck
by Turkmenbashi on Apr 30, 2009 9:47 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This Season
I have gone to two games this season and watched the rest. I know that logically it is early and there is a small sample size, but last night’s game, coupled with the Hafner news, just made me feel like this will be a long year. Thank god the rest of the central is pretty average right now. Giving up a five run lead at home in a series you could have swept but instead lost 2 out of 3 just describes the season.
This season
I am also aware that I do not have statistical evidence that it will be a long year even though I could find the information based on starter’s performance, bullpen performance, and the lineup. This is me venting frustration and going by what I see-not a great method but what I am using. Just wanted to make clear I know I am not supporting my point with evidence but am just extremely pissed off.
by Jim Swarthout on Apr 30, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
many of us feel this way, but dude, lay off the [duplicate, wow] subject lines.
Ben Francisco: An Outfielder only on baseball cards and roster sheets.
Welcome, Jim. many of us feel this way, but dude, lay off the [duplicate, wow] subject lines..
Quick hint, you can skip the “subject” line, that’s the custom here.
Fixed.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Apr 30, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Regarding the short bench: Ryan mentions Victor’s one-out walk in the ninth, and Wedge’s inability to pinchrun with Crowe for fear of losing the designated hitter. Wedge seems to view losing his DH as tantamount to having to play Andy Marte. It’s not the end of the world to have the pitcher bat in the ninth inning. Admittedly, he would have only the Giraffe on the bench, but it was pretty obvious with the pen so thin the game wasn’t going 15 innings.
The book would say you make that move on the road, and perhaps not at home. But I would have tried to get Crowe into scoring position and damn the DH spot. Other managers don’t seem so concerned about having to have the pitcher bat. It’s not the end of the world. How often does a pitcher bat in the NL in the late innings?
the problem, for me, is that if you refuse to do such a thing, why even start one of your catchers at DH in the first place? if you’re willing to do one, you should be willing to do the other. Gimenez!
I brought it up last night, but how come Shop isn’t being groomed at 1st a bit?
by supermarioelia on Apr 30, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll have to come up with something screwy. How about the assertion that strikeouts aren’t as value-neutral as we have been led to believe? We all complain how we’re getting nickel-and-dimed by seeing-eye grounders (to mix metaphors). The Indians are third in the majors in striking out. I don’t know, maybe ten Ks a game. If three of those strikeouts were grounders wouldn’t the Indians have a few 20-hoppers themselves?
The dumbbell maxim says: Put the ball in play and good things can happen. The smart thinking says, at least it’s not a double-play. But maybe there’s something to that broadcaster’s bromide.
It’s worth thinking about. There’s an emphasis being placed on defense for a reason… balls in play aren’t trivial.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 30, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
My own bromide is that the pitching coach is saying, let your fielders work for you, while the hitting coach is saying, put the ball in play and good things can happen — and they can’t both be right.
Groundouts are no worse than strikeouts, but groundballs are better than strikeouts, because not all groundballs are groundouts. Happy?
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Yes. Nearly all strikeouts result in outs (passed ball third strikes, etc.), whereas some groundballs result in singles (or errors). But some significant portion of groundballs result in double plays. I tend to think the pitching coach is right, for what it’s worth. Seven out of ten times, it’s an out.
But not that many groundballs do go for double plays — there are (I think) 13 base-out situations where a GIDP isn’t even possible and only 8 where it is.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
You might be looking at K rates, but as for sheer # of K’s, we’re first in the majors by five. We’re also second in walks (and 3rd in HBP), though.
Ben Francisco: An Outfielder only on baseball cards and roster sheets.
It’s not plausible to sustain high walk rates (and probably HBPs) while reducing Ks. Both of these must be functions of high P/PAs. So one goes with the other, right?
I may be proven wrong, but I think you can reduce Ks and keep the P/PA numbers and the walks high. Big key- swing and foul off or put in play strikes. Continue to not swing at balls.
It fell to Jensen Lewis, who had given up the game-scoringtying single, to pitch multiple innings.
Very good analysis, Ryan. I just had to correct this one typo. Yes, I know I have a problem.
by JulioBernazard on Apr 30, 2009 11:22 AM EDT reply actions
And the cruel Schedule Gods ensure that it will continue to hurt through the off-day. On the bright side, I’m reasonably confident the Tribe bullpen will not blow a lead today.
It does seem like it’s always that way.
Akron is playing right now. Mills and Santana have a single and homer, each, and Gomez is dealing.
by dgcambridge on Apr 30, 2009 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s surprising they’re so good considering the slow starts out of Mills, Weglarz, and Rivero. Jose Costanza for Columbus!
Drennen has been pretty useless as well in his first AA exposure. Starters have been excellent, and Pestano has been great closing out games.
Oh yeah, I haven’t been on the Drennen bandwagon since, like, the minute he was drafted right after Crowe. Just never understood the fascination with drafting spunky undersized leftfielders with your top picks.
Drennen had a very fine full-season debut for the Captains a couple years ago, but he hasn’t done anything since.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Well, he’s still younger than McBride and more athletic. But there is that little detail of “hitting” where he needs a lot of work.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 1, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it will be fun to watch if Wegz gets going, Judy calms down, and when Hagerty McBride moves up.
Drennen is the next Crowe. At some point he’ll have an 850 OPS in the upper minors, and Wedge will be in love.
Every time someone brings up Josh Judy, I think: “That has to be a nickname.”
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 30, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
There are plenty of nicknames to work in with Judy, but the name as a whole is so close to Judge Judy that’s it’s hard to ignore.
Also! It causes me to have Judy and the Dream of Horses stuck in my head for the rest of the day, which will be a problem if he has 70 appearances a year for the big club.
Do it, you can sit right behind the visitors’ dugout. It is cool. I saw Lofgren pitch there a couple weeks ago.
by cleveland teamer on Apr 30, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of the cruel schedule gods, next we face Gallaraga, who has pwned us so far (3-0, 3.62 ERA, 0.897 WHIP)
by woodsmeister on Apr 30, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Good. Let’s start a campaign against starters who repeatedly do better against us than the rest of the league. I hate those guys. Blackburn, we’re coming for you.
Can’t you be nice and round up to 0.90 WHIP?
by cleveland teamer on Apr 30, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
This team doesn’t deserve such consideration.
by woodsmeister on Apr 30, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
That was a pretty epic thread last night. Shame it ended in tears.
by supermarioelia on Apr 30, 2009 12:21 PM EDT reply actions
Left the office yesterday with the Tribe leading 3-0 for an afternoon’s golf, somehow managed to drive into the back of another car as I exited the motorway and got home that eveing to see we blew a 5 run lead and lost, a was indeed a great day yesterday.
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Apr 30, 2009 6:56 PM EDT reply actions
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