Commentary on Rondon moving to bullpen in Akron

by cursedcleveland on May 13, 2009 12:48 PM EDT Comment 24 comments

He was moved to the bullpen and pitched two ok innings last night in a loss for Akron. How many appearances does he get until he's called up to Cleveland? And where do people fall on this decision? Me personally, I hate that we have to accelarate a young promising arm in order to fill a hole in our big league team but if that's what it takes then so be it. The ultimate goal is to win and if Rondon gives us our best chance than why not try him out. Thoughts?

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Yeah let’s change the title now please. Before we scare anyone else.

by supermarioelia on May 13, 2009 1:03 PM EDT reply actions

What’s wrong with the title? Did it already change?

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on May 13, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions

yeah, I already changed it. It used to say “Rondon to Cleveland.”

by Ryan on May 13, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Not everyone is ready for the responsibility of all those page views.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on May 13, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions

We keep using words like ‘panic’ but we have no idea if that’s true.

That is, the Indians FO may think that breaking a talented pitcher in as a reliever is a perfectly reasonable thing to do, but something they generally stay away from.

Or, it could that they think it’s usually a horrible idea, but Shapiro/Wedge might get fired tomorrow and so OMG LET’S DO EVERYTHING WE CAN AND SCREW TOMORROW!!

I’m just saying: maybe our bullpen problems were just a tiny nudge as opposed to an explansion.

It is safe to assume, as Jay has said, that they consider the particular pitcher. That’s pretty clear when they decide to move Laffey instead of Sowers or Reyes.

by dgcambridge on May 13, 2009 3:04 PM EDT reply actions

Explansion? No idea.

Explosion.

by dgcambridge on May 13, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Explansion (n) — an explosion of “The Plan”, as created by Mark Shapiro for the Cleveland Indians baseball team

by Buckeye Brad on May 13, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions

I just thought you were channeling Ricky Ricardo again.

Sometimes, I just like to b****.

by emd2k3 on May 13, 2009 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions

This could be a total non-story in 14 days if the Indians somehow stabilize their bullpen over the next few weeks.

by Toxicadam on May 13, 2009 3:43 PM EDT reply actions

As long as Rondon doesn’t struggle with health or effectiveness, you are correct.

by Ryan Kelsey on May 13, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions

That’s what worries me – I’m just hopeful he does well in the new role and then is returned to the starting role and can continue from where he left off in Akron.

While it was reversed in Meloan’s case, it seems that Meloan’s move to the rotation by the Dodgers has caused him to have trouble trying to regain his dominant form in the bullpen, when he was virtually an automatic lock out of the bullpen before the Dodgers inserted him into the rotation last year. I’m just hopeful that moving around Rondon like this doesn’t mess him up in a similar fashion – that’s why I would not have done it.

It will take more than one reliever (whether it be Rondon, Meloan, or Miller, if he were healthy) to turn around this bullpen – if the other vital members of that bullpen (Lewis, Perez, and Betancourt especially, along with Wood, Sipp, and whoever else – Herges, Aquino, Rundles, etc.) don’t get it turned around and pitch consistently well, it won’t matter who we put into that bullpen, which is all the more reason why I would have left Rondon as a starter, especially since he was in such a good groove at Akron. Not to mention the fact you still have Aquino, Rundles, Vizcaino, Neal, Meloan, Newsom, and any FAs that are out there to turn to first (since it’s presumed they would get first crack in Cleveland before Rondon would).

Just my 2 cents – let’s hope this decision works out well for Rondon and the Indians.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on May 14, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions

The more I think about, the more I’m confused by this. I get the idea of breaking Rondon in as a reliever, but I’m not sure this jives with current need. Sowers and Reyes are just awful. Carmona is blah- teetering on the edge of serviceable and awfulness. Pavano is average when he is on. All said, I think our rotation is poised to give us more problems in the near future than our bullpen. Are we counting on SLewis, Westbrook, and Huff to pull our rotation from below average to good?

I didn’t like the Laffey move, but I’m assuming that it has been made and they won’t switch him back to the rotation in the near future. High leverage sitautions right now should go to Wood, Betancourt, Laffey, Lewis and Sipp. Where does Rondon fit in all this? Or with J-Lew pitching more and more multiple innings, are we really just going with a second rotation of long-ish relievers that will go 2-3 innings once the crappy starters are done?

by Ryan Kelsey on May 13, 2009 3:45 PM EDT reply actions

What if Rondon moves to the bullpen taking over the long reliever role?

And laffey moves back to the rotation? We’d also have Westbrook coming back in a month so hopefully that means one of the remaining Reyes or Sowers gone as well. All upgrades in my opinion. Hopefully we’re still relevant in a month though..

by cursedcleveland on May 13, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions

I can see this, but I don’t know why Rondon would jump over Huff. It seems to me that he would be worthy of a shot in the rotation taken a look at what he’s done on the whole at AAA and the organizations willingness to bump him up there as quickly as they did last season.

by hans on May 13, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't have their stats in front of me

And I’m not expert on both but I believe that Rondon is more of a power pitcher and someone like that would be more of an asset facing batters for the first time in the bigs. Huff would be the first guy up if we needed a starter.

by cursedcleveland on May 13, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions

I don’t know why Rondon would jump over Huff.

Roster management. Rondon is already on the 40-man. Huff isn’t. If we wait until early June to roster Huff, we buy time on his arbitration clock. With Rondon, there’s no contractual downside if we find a way to use him at the major league level now.

by ken from alexandria on May 13, 2009 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions

I don’t think it’s that.

I think they want to keep Huff in line to start, and they expect to need him at some point in that role.

With Rondon, I suspect that his secondary pitches are not yet developed enough for him to be effective as a big-league starter. Assuming he adapts to the work pattern, they can make Rondon a serviceable reliever a lot faster than they can finish him as a starter.

Just a guess, though.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on May 13, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions

Good guess

by JK in CBus on May 14, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Are there any handy stats for pitchers returning from TJ surgery? My intuition tells me that Westbrook might be back in June, but I’m not counting for any effectiveness from him this season.

I’d love to be wrong about this.

by doowop on May 13, 2009 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions

right, i don’t have time now to search, but i recall when Francisco Liriano was returning, I read that a pitcher doesn’t regain his full velocity until about 18 months after the surgery, while he can return 9-12 months afterwards.

You know Selig? Ombudsman.

by rolub on May 13, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions

It isn’t so much velocity as it is command that takes a while to return fully.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on May 13, 2009 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions

I mentioned earlier that anything (positive, that is) we get from Westbrook this season should be considered a bonus – it usually takes 18 months to fully recover from TJ surgery. I think it will barely be 12 months midway through this season since Westbrook had TJ surgery, so I don’t think we can really expect Westbrook to (hopefully) regain his “old” form until the 2010 season.

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on May 14, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions

I look at it like this: If we need Rondon as a reliever, that means we’re in back in the thick of it. If we need Rondon as a starter, that means that two or fewer of these pitchers — Sowers, SLewis, Huff, Reyes, or Carmona — are getting the job done, in which case, depending on Westbrook’s recovery, the season may be as good as over anyway.

by fleerdon on May 13, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions

I too think that the rotation will be more of a concern long-term – as I mentioned in another thread, Sowers is below-average, Reyes hasn’t been much better, Pavano is going well right now, but is not a lock to continue, and won’t be here long-term, and Carmona is still a bit of an enigma (though pitching better as the season goes along).

Additionally, if you look at our near-future rotation, who do we have?

Carmona
Westbrook (provided he makes a full recovery back to his “old” self)
Huff (presuming he lives up to his potential)
Laffey?! (provided they don’t keep him in the bullpen long-term; granted, that’s not likely right now, but not of the question, especially if he continues to stabilize the bullpen).

Therefore, you might have 4 pitchers, perhaps, but Westbrook is a question mark due to recovery from injury and Huff and Laffey still have not solidified themselves as ML starters yet (Huff hasn’t even made his ML debut, in fact), while Carmona is still sorting himself out. Beyond 2010, I don’t think you can count on the other 4 members of our current rotation to still be here – Lee will be hard to keep, Pavano will either sign a large contract elsewhere if he pitches well or we won’t want to keep him if he falters, Reyes is looking very erratic and could get passed over by the time 2010 arrives, and Sowers likely won’t factor into that rotation either.

Essentially, you’ll likely need more than one starter pitching prospect, and more to the point, you’d want some more hard throwers in the rotation to help balance out Westbrook and Laffey if they’re in the rotation, plus Huff isn’t exactly a velocity guy either. Rondon is arguably the closest and best chance of filling that hole. There are some other nice options below him (Gomez, De La Cruz, Berger, House, Putnam?!, Tomlin?!, Edell, etc.) but they are further away.

Meanwhile, it’s conceivable to think that Lewis and Perez will still be here in 2010, as I think Betancourt will be here too. So will Sipp, and heck, so will Wood. That’s 5 spots already. Add in guys like Meloan, Rundles, Pestano, Newsom to fill 1, or at most, 2 spots, and the future bullpen looks to be more set with guys who have lengthier track records than those who are set to fill our 2010 rotation.

I can understand the argument of moving Rondon to the bullpen – I’m just fearful it will mess him up based on the change in routines, the shorter, but more frequent, usage, etc. I just hope Rondon stays healthy and can pick up where he left off in Akron when he was moved to the bullpen.

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on May 14, 2009 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions