"Cleveland wouldn't let me be myself"
"What they did to me was like the New York Mets going up to Jose Reyes and saying, 'Hey, you can't smile and you can't play the way you play."
He who shall not be named
over 2 years ago
Toxicadam
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Phillips was recently shocked to learn that OBP stands for “On Base Percentage” and not “Oh, Brandon Phillips!”
Though, admittedly, he’d been wondering why Jhonny Peralta had a higher “Oh, Brandon Phillips!” rating.
by fleerdon on May 22, 2009 12:52 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Brandon’s the one who keep talking about it. We’ve all moved on. Weirdo.
by jhon on May 22, 2009 12:57 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Because it’s an easy story. Every year, when they play the Cleveland Indians, all the Cinci beat writers have to do is say, “Hey, Brandon, we’re playing Cleveland. You used to play there. Tell us about it.”
The story writes itself. You’re done for the day and you can hit the links.
by woodsmeister on May 22, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
“What they did to me was like the New York Mets going up to Jose Reyes Jonathan Malo and saying, ‘Hey, you can’t smile suck at baseball and you can’t play the way you(’ve been) play(ing and expect us not to get rid of you).”
Fixed
BP actually has a much more balanced line this year so far, more walks/less K’s, while still getting those XBH.
Regardless of how you view his history with the Tribe, its undeniable that as a pro player he’s become pretty much what he was hoped to be, and that getting out of Cleveland and going to Cincy was the best thing for him.
Not to take Brandon Phillips too seriously, but in the bigger scheme of things, is it possible he has a point about Wedge? It seems like the teams under him play so tight, opposite of loose. Remember how big a deal it was that Trot Nixon put pies in players’ faces in 2007, that became “the outlet.” Coincidentally or not, we were actually good that year. I look at an underperforming group of individuals and wonder how much Wedge’s up-tight-iness has to do with it. Seems to be more fear than fun. You have a bad week and Wedge gives you the “needed two day break.” How many other managers do that?
i think it’s a problem for self righteous players like brandon phillips and milton bradley and not a problem at all for selfless players like victor.
by Brick. on May 22, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Don’t disagree at all Brick. The issue is that you are limiting the universe of people that can play for you when you don’t let certain people play to their potential on your team. If there are 500 people good enough at baseball to make a good major leaguer, the Indians already have to eliminate 100 of them because of their market size. If you have to eliminate another 100 because your manager/coaching staff can’t deal with their character type, you are really starting way behind. In other words, there aren’t enough Victor Martinezes around to fill an entire roster, especially at our payroll.
I know this topic has been killed. But really, anytime we face Phillips or Bradley and they kill us, or anytime the Indians are struggling, Wedge’s flaws are going to be more apparent. And this is a major flaw of Wedge, in my opinion.
you are limiting the universe of people that can play for you
And this is a major flaw of Wedge
this is a company policy, though. it’s much larger than wedge.
That’s fair. Though, both the Bradley and Phillips trades had more of Wedge’s fingerprints on them than most moves the team makes. It’s one thing to not invest in free agents that have character issues (something Shapiro/Antonetti obviously value). It gets magnified when you have an asset and are forced to sell, or use the asset efficiently, because the manager isn’t able to juggle the personalities.
My two cents is there is a little truth on both sides here.
I’m gonna guess that Phillips was a young. cocky, immature player here in Cleveland … and that rubbed everyone the wrong way.
But, Wedge (and Shapiro) seem to like a certain type of player a lot … to the point where I almost feel the theory is that the team will end up being greater than the sum of its parts.
This isn’t meant to belabor the Phillips thing (or Bradley) at all … those ships have sailed … but I do think there is a “type” that this front office likes.
by FallsTribeFan on May 22, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t agree. I really think it’s just the most unusual cases. Just a few players who don’t quite fit right. And I hardly think the Indians are unique in that respect anyway. We’ve had our share of jerks.
But this is one area that a good manager can make a real difference. Managing different characters and personalities. Allowing jerks to be jerks, but letting them thrive on the field and help the team, and prevent them from destroying the club house.
The Youkalis vs. Manny thing comes to mind. A good manager keeps everyone happy enough that they both continue to help the team win and not kill eachother.
Yeah. Eventually it failed. But they coexisted long enough to win a World Series. The Red Sox got, what, 7 1/2 great years out of Manny before giving up on him, and even then got almost fair value for said “troublemaker”.
Sure. Of course, the Red Sox eventually failed on exactly that issue. We’re using Pavano. Lee seems to have settled from his issue. We’re rotating a number of near-starters through multiple positions without too much complaining.
It could be that Bradley and BP mean that we can’t deal with a segment of the MLB population. Or it could be that Bradley is a guy that a lot of teams can’t deal with, and Phillips was as much of a talent mistake as anything else.
It’s a little strange, you have to admit, because you’re assuming that we have a bunch of good guys because they don’t complain and play hard. Maybe they’re all super-nice chumps. But maybe we like their talent and Wedge is “managing.”
MB has anger issues, obviously. Wherever he goes there’s usually at least one incident of poor impulse control. But I’m not sure I’d put Phillips in the same exact boat. I don’t think you are either, but I don’t really lump them together in my mind particularly.
Have you heard anything about BP not getting along with anyone in Cincy? Causing any clubhouse probs? Being recognized by his peers as a me-first jerk? I don’t keep up with Reds minutia, so I really don’t know, but he and the team have seemed pretty happy with each other since he got there.
My thoughts are that I don’t really care. I cannot stand rooting for guys that don’t go out and respect the game and the fans and the people around them. Attitude is no substitute for intensity. I would rather watch this team lose 162 games than a team full of Milton Bradleys and Brandon Phillips’ win 162. There’s something to be said for character.
419 days until the USS Choo is deployed to fight Communism.
This is what’s funny about BP’s statement:
“It was an honor and a blessing for me when the general manager (Wayne Krivsky) and the manager (Jerry Narron) brought me into the office and told me, ‘You come here and play the game the best way you know how and if it doesn’t work your way, then we’ll sit you down and talk about how we want you to play,’”
I have no doubt that this is exactly what Cleveland did. He came in, was allowed to be himself, and he did indeed suck (2003). My guess is the front office and coaching staff did sit down with him and say, “you know what, this isn’t working. It’d probably be better if you did X, Y and Z.” Have fun with that career .310 OBP.
adding…I think this means Droobs is Harry Potter
by APV on May 22, 2009 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s like that psycho ex-girlfriend you dumped 4 years ago who still goes around town thinking of new ways to explain to everyone in earshot that it was all your fault and you treated her so so bad. There’s no sense in arguing with her. It’s simply, “check who I’m with now.”
by dgcambridge on May 22, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Heck yes he is. BP vs. Droobs in 2008 and 2009:
Year Age AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ 2008 27 559 80 146 24 7 21 78 39 93 .261 .312 .442 .754 92 2009 28 142 20 39 7 2 7 33 16 16 .275 .342 .500 .842 113 2008 22 352 48 91 20 0 6 47 46 77 .259 .346 .366 .713 88 2009 23 162 32 53 12 2 1 22 17 31 .327 .389 .444 .833 116
If you limit the comparison to the time since Cabrera was called up last July, BP hit .247/.315/.432. Droobs hit .323/.394/.455. And that’s not even considering defense.
In fairness, Phillips probably may have a slight edge on defense. But would I rather have Droobs? Absolutely. His early career is already going much better than Phillips did, and Phillips’ days as a net-positive in terms of dollars-per-win is almost over.
His current contract: 09:$4.75M, 10:$6.75M, 11:$11M, 12:$12M club option ($1M buyout), 13: free agent
Here’s his MORP: 09:$7.1M, 10:6.67, 11:6.33M, 12:$4.87M, 13:4.3M
Droobs of course will be making the minimum through 2010.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
What’s comical is how different Phillips’ spin has changed since has was traded. Phillips acknowledged when he was traded that the fault lied with him because he had changed his approach from what worked for him in the minors to a HR approach that got him onto ESPN. The Tribe failed to change him back (although it appears that in spring training 2006 he was finally trying). When he was traded to the Reds Chris Chambliss Red hitting coach) talked about Phillips need to change his approach and he and Phillips both attributed Phillips early success to his change in approach.
Dusty Baker in the 2008 off season addressed Phillips need to make adjustments.
His current “smiling and attitude” garabage is misleading even though it is has some truth in it.
One of the things Wedge wants is his players to go out and have “fun.” If players are having fun they are playing relaxed.
Two of Wedge’s favorite players are Ken Griffey, Jr., and Omar Vizquel. Both players with frequent smiles on their faces and that have fun when they play.
The attitude Wedge and the coaching staff had a problem with Phillips lack of coachability. From having hear him in interviews I also suspect he is the type of player that if he has a good day is happy even when his team loses. Phillips is about himself and not the team. He also is one who never acknowledges his failures. By almost anyone’s estimate Phillips had a subpar 2008 season. He has publicly asserted he had a good season in 2008.
Where did you see this about Griffey and Vizquel being Wedge favorites? If so, why do so few of his own players have that demeanor? It would seem—and please forgive me for covering this well-trod ground again—that Wedge favors hard-working, jaw-clenching grinders (much like himself and Casey, who would, I think have to be listed among his favorites) to carefree spirits. I remember BP as a mercurial guy when he played in Cleveland. He smiled. Sometimes he sulked too. To demonize him is unfair. But I sure don’t see any indications that Wedge wants his players to go out and have fun. He talks about bowing necks and separating, not about exulting and playing loose.
Radio interviews.
From what you wrote it sounds like you think playing hard and having fun are somehow contradictory.
The Blake example you give is interesting. Blake was one of the least serious guys in the clubhouse and enjoyed playing.
Curious where you fit Sizemore in — a Wedge favorite — and of whom Wedge has said recently that Grady needs to start having fun out there again.
The point you seem to miss is the reason a manager may want a player to have fun is because he wants the player to relax .
by JenniferMarie on May 25, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m afraid you have access to more information than I do, because I wouldn’t figure Blake for a goofy guy.
I think, generally, there are players who are hard-driven, like Cobb or Rose or Pedroia. And then there are players who have fun, like Omar or even George Hendrick. Obviously, there are a lot of players in between.
I don’t know about Sizemore. Right now he doesn’t seem to have fun, but he’s not a dirty-uniform
gritty type of guy.
I never figured a manager wanted his players to have fun out of the goodness of his heart. But you can’t mandate fun or relaxation.
Blake’s antics in the clubhouse were pretty widely reported.
I’d disagree with you about how hard Sizemore plays. And my whole point was that Wedge was saying Sizemore needs to start having more fun.
And Vizquel worked a lot harder than his carefree attitude seemed to indicate. Did you know, for example, he took ballet lessons to improve his footwork at short?
Consider Manny. He plays carefree -unfortunately too much on defense and on the bases. I just read recently someone who asserted that the reason he hits so well in pressure situations is that he looks at every AB as equal - he puts no pressure on himself. But from everything I’ve read Manny works very hard at his hitting spending a lot of extra time in the batting cage.
by JenniferMarie on May 25, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I am so sick of this. Brandon Phillips is a nice player, but the fact of the matter is he’s got a ~770 OPS in Cincinnati and Droobs is putting up the same numbers in his age 23 season as Phillips in his age 27.
Also, Jeff Stevens turn out to be more than a bag of donuts.
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