Game 27: Indians 6, Blue Jays 10
by APV on May 5, 2009 4:35 PM EDT
Email
PrintIt never comes easy, not even the losses. The Indians offense made 22-year old Brett Cecil look very good in his major league debut for 6 innings. Anthony Reyes managed to somehow be effective, despite not looking particularly good for 6 innings. Once again, though, the Indians bullpen acted like the bouncer at a college bar on Cinco de Mayo. Everyone scores, every time.
Eric Wedge was once again faced with a situation in which the starter was beginning to tire and the options to replace him were not so attractive. With the Indians holding a 2-1 lead, Reyes allowed to the first two batters in the 6th to get on base with singles. A strike out and ground ball later, the tying and go-ahead run were in scoring position. Perfect opportunity to bring in a guy from the pen to slam the door. A visit to the mound, but no pitching change. Vernon Wells walks. Pitching change? No. An Adam Lind single that gave the Blue Jays a 3-2 lead.
Showing the same resilience as last night, the Indians offense once again rallied to the cause and came through with a big four-run 7th, including singles from Grady, Asdrubal, Victor and Jhonny, to give the club what might be considered a safe 3-run lead. Safe enough for Raffy Perez to work out his kinks?...no. An out and two base hits later, the tying run was at the plate. Safe enough for formerly last-man-on-the-roster Vinnie Chulk?...no. Safe enough for completely lost Jensen Lewis?...no. After that trio of relievers managed to allow the Blue Jays to tie the game, Wedge went to Tony Sipp (again) with the hope of finally ending the brutal bottom of the 7th. And after getting ahead of the count, 1-2, Sipp left a slider right in the middle of the plate that Indians killer for the day Adam Lind promptly deposited into the right field stands to give the Blue Jays a 3-run lead. Scott Rolen's HR in the next AB on a chest high fastball seemed like an after though. Or maybe it was just an attempt to screw Blue Jays fantasy baseball fans (ha ha, no save for you!). Whatever it was, it was another brutal, bullpen-led loss for the Tribe.
Next up: Pavano vs. Masterson (at Boston) 7:10 pm
| Highest WPA | Lowest WPA |
| J. Peralta .201 | T. Sipp -.387 |
| V. Martinez .160 | V. Chulk -.259 |
| B. Francisco .098 | M. DeRosa -.151 |
185 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I agree…this is really, really rock bottom. They are as bad or worse than they were in 2003-2004. I dont care if the names are better now, the play isnt. THEY F’ING STINK!!!
I think the take is that Luis was the lone voice of reason, and previous failures were the result of Wedge and Willis overruling him. Apparently Isaac can do no wrong. He should be GM, I suppose.
Jesus, like the bullpen coach actual matters
I'm *always* in the driver's seat, cugino -- Chuck
by Turkmenbashi on May 6, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
“um you’re sucking right now. Can you suck a little bit less out there?”
EASIEST JOB EVER
by world dictator on May 6, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Radinsky, Radinsky, Radinsky…
/grasping at straws
by The DiaTriber on May 6, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
This team makes me question my loyalty. Looks like Cliff will be traded away by mid-season and then the “we have nothing to lose” attitude will surface towards the end of the season that will allow us to play slightly above .500 baseball. This will lead to the glowing false hope for next season.
Not necessarily. If it looks like we are truly and irrecoverably out of it, trading Lee with a year left on his contract seems like a viable option to get a greater return. Wasn’t Colon in his penultimate year when we traded him for Grady, Cliff, and that other guy who shall remain nameless?
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on May 5, 2009 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem with trading Lee is that is near impossible to get equal, or cost competitive, value for a really good pitcher when your biggest need is pitching.
If the Indians were rebuilding and had no shot next year trading Lee would make sense. Or if the Indians had other good starters waiting in the wings, we could probably trade Lee. But neither of those scenarios is true. Getting rid of Lee would just open up a very very hard hole to fill in an already weak pitching rotation.
Trading Lee would not only be a signal that we’re giving up on this season but next season as well.
by world dictator on May 6, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I honestly cant stand following these guys! I am speechless!!!
Tomorrow, they will score one run…maybe two…
I am speechless!!!
You’ve made two comments in this thread in 15 minutes.
by NickFantana on May 5, 2009 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I’ve long wondered what effect inherited runners have on pitchers psyche. Some pitchers seem to relish the opportunity to be a hero and stop the bleeding, whereas others seem to be complete sieves when they’re cleaning up someone else’s mess. Raffy P used to be an example of the former, and Mike Timlin comes to mind as someone who would allow a crazy percentage of inherited runners to score.
I’m starting to think that this new Wedgian trend of trotting out four or five different relievers in any given half inning when they struggle is taking quite a bit of the accountability away from these pitchers….which I don’t think is necessarily a good thing.
I tend to agree, mario. I would’ve left Chulk in there, and would’ve let him sink or swim. I wouldn’t have brought Lewis in the middle of another inning. He would’ve started the 8th for me. I think we need to get him going, and I think that’s the best way to do it.
I saw in the game thread that several questioned that if Wedge was going to use Sipp anyway, why not start him in the 7th? I think that’s an easy answer. Wedge is still trying to be careful with Sipp, and wants to avoid using him in back-to-back games if at all possible. If Perez does his job, Lewis can have the 8th and then Sipp doesn’t even have to warm up, and he gets a full day off.
If you leave Chulk in and let him get kicked around, what does that do for his psyche? You don’t think the other pitchers won’t notice what is effectively an act of cruelty? This is a bad idea. Wedge used four pitchers in the inning, and they all gave up runs. That’s hard to do. Chances are that one of them would be successful.
Other posts on various threads have made it clear that no help is to be had from the Columbus bullpen. What next? Is there anyone in Akron who might be able to help stop the bleeding? All kinds of service-time issues there, I know. I’m just hoping to see some meaningful baseball the next time I’m in Cleveland (in July).
The only people on the 40-man who are options right now are Rundles and Zach Jackson. If Meloan starts performing better, he becomes an option. Off the 40-man from Columbus are a bunch of unattractive names like Scott Roehl, Matt Herges, Randy Newsom and Ryan Edell. In Akron, you have the still largely unattractive names of Pestano, Steven Wright, and Erik Stiller. A radical move would be to bring up Rondon and put him in the bullpen. I don’t see that happening.
by APV on May 5, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Mike Jackson is not walking through that door! Hector Rondon is not walking through that door!
What’s the Salas situation again?
A radical move would be to bring up Rondon and put him in the bullpen. I don’t see that happening.
I don’t see it happening either, but I like the sounds of it, even though it would mess up our management of his contract. Back when the Orioles were smart, they almost always broke in their best young arms by using them out of the bullpen, often in long relief, for a year or even two. It might make sense for us to call Sowers up and stick him in the Zach Jackson role. (Huff we need to leave alone until next month.)
Here’s another radical idea. Send Raffy Perez, Jensen Lewis, et al, down to Columbus and stick them in the starting rotation to “stretch them out” and maybe give them a confidence boost. They’re zombies right now.
by ken from alexandria on May 5, 2009 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
What if JLew came back up as a starter worthy of our #4 spot? I don’t think Perez’s stuff plays well to that role, but JLew would be interesting.
Now, this whole Sowers pulled from his start thing: What if we stuck him in for the 7th and 8th innings every 3 days or so? It seems extreme and unprecedented, but it might work.
Ben Francisco: An Outfielder only on baseball cards and roster sheets.
Perez’s stuff makes more sense as a starter than Lewis in my eyes. Not to mention that Perez was a starter in our system before being aggressively promoted as a reliever
But Perez’s got the slider that plays so well out of the pen that it would be rather foolish to use him in another role. He’ll be fine. He just shouldn’t be on this team right now.
Ben Francisco: An Outfielder only on baseball cards and roster sheets.
Service time is not really an issue for relievers or relief prospects, so don’t worry about that.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 5, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps I missed it on someones elses post, but do we have a collective name for our bullpen for this year?
If not, may I suggest a play on the 2007 name, as in “Cirlce of Disgust.”
The word is Mistrust, actually.
How about: Circle of Frust.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 5, 2009 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Here’s what I found on the distinction:
Mistrust means "to doubt, to lack confidence in," as in I mistrust his ability to persuade her. Distrust means much the same but adds suspicion to the mix: He distrusts her because he thinks she’ll cheat him.
I’m worried that distrust is correct, with the suspicion that our bullpen sucks.
by APV on May 5, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
How about the Circle of Suck
its not as eloquent but its more to the point
by world dictator on May 6, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
How about You're Not Throwing BP!!!
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic. - Robert S. Wieder
It feels like we’re in a 162 game version of the Celtics-Bulls series, but without the high quality play and without the mercy of a season that would end with our 82nd loss.
I wonder how many times this year below the WPA (or % chance of winning or whatever it’s called) was 75% or higher for the Tribe and we ended up losing? Surely we would seem to lead in this statistic for this year and perhaps the last several years?
well let’s hope the Cavs are playing well into June then we’re only right around the corner from another disappointing football season
Just noticed Sowers was lifted from his scheduled start in Columbus. He’s been throwing well, and is arguably the best pitcher available to the parent club. Coincidence?
I don’t want to alarm anyone…but Marte’s up to the minute OBP is .410 and OPS 1107 through 39 atbats. Didn’t get that many atbats with the big club last year until June 1st, yet some had already crucified him.
Realistically, what numbers do we think he has to post to even have a remote chance of getting another shot?
With Valbuena up and Peralta and DeRosa now alternating at the hot corner, there is a log jam of infielders (Jamey Carroll’s finger healed yet?). Plus I never got the sense that Wedge really liked Marte. Regardless of how well Marte does, I don’t think they give will him a shot this year unless the bullpen exercises their demons and Marte gets a September call up for a playoff run.
Plus I never got the sense that Wedge really liked Marte
Hah.
Yeah of course it’s a remote chance, but I’m saying what kind of numbers will absolutely force his way back onto the 25-man. I’m saying .400 OBP and .600 SLG through August.
by supermarioelia on May 5, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Tell you what, I saw Marte play on Sunday (Columbus vs. Durham). He looked over matched to me. Granted, I don’t know much about the guy that Durham had pitching, but Marte didn’t look like a man among boys. Brantley on the other hand… I would listen to that argument.
-Erik
See this is good stuff. I can live with this.
by supermarioelia on May 5, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, I was at that game too. I saw four at-bats. In one, Marte smoked an RBI single. In another, he hit a shot right at the shortstop. There was also a walk and a rather conventional groundout. I thought he looked pretty darn good that day.
Incidentally, the guy pitching for the Rays was Wade Davis, who is one of their top prospects: http://rays.scout.com/2/773811.html.
I recall an at bat where he K’ed and was flailing at each pitch. I don’t recall the RBI single being smoked. I’ll look at the box score that my son did at home and see if it jogs my memory, but the K stuck with me.
-Erik
Here’s what Marte did in that game.
Drew a walk in the 1st inning.
Two-out, two RBI single in the 3rd. Chemo says smoked. I’m calling it a single only.
Pedestrian ground out to short in the 6th.
K in the 8th with one out, Brown standing on second, trailing by 2 runs.
And Brantley.
Line out in the 1st. That ball was smoked, just right at the second baseman.
Lead off single up the middle in the 3rd. He later scored.
Reaches on an E-6. That ball was also smoked and took a bad hop of the SS’s glove. He stole second shortly thereafter.
Grounds out to the pitcher, arguably the only ball he didn’t hit hard all day.
Fly out to end the game.
Brantley looked like the man. Marte still looks lost.
-Erik
This is why you don’t draw conclusions based on a sample size of one game. Had you gone to the game on Saturday, you might have drawn a different conclusion. Overall, Brantley has been crappy, and Marte has mixed in enough XBH (twice as many as Brantley in one-third of the AB) with his Ks to present a nice, if fleeting, OPS. Hell, if the only Tribe game you saw was April 28, you might conclude DeRosa is a better hitter than Vic.
Okay, hold the phone. That’s not the camp that I’m in. I have historically been a Marte backer, and am well aware of what a small sample size gets you…squat.
A lot of what is being discussed here is over-reaction. We all know that. There is a lot to be frustrated about and likewise, a lot of frustration being bandied about. Like most, I’d be happy to see pretty much anything tried at this point.
-Erik
Wow, my comment reads harsher than intended. I want Marte to have turned it around, but doubt that he has. I want Brantley to be awesome, and still believe he’ll get there. Hitting, for all the problems Jhonny et al have had, is not the problem anyway.
No harm done. There are a lot of newer users that may not know me that well and might make the mistake of thinking that I’m a “Fire Everyone and bring up everyone from AAA.” That’s never been me. I started out just talking through my personal observation of the Clippers/Bulls game and responded to Andrew’s point on Brantley, but I’ll concede that it was beginning to sound like I was advocating for bringing up Brantley, when in fact, I’d be most comfortable with him right where he is for the season.
-Erik
August 10: Press conference with Shapiro
Hoynes: Mark, now that Rafael Betancourt has retired is there any truth to the rumors he’ll become bullpen coach?
Shapiro: Well, I can’t comment on that. It’s really up to Luis. It’s his call.
Ocker: When do you think Jhonny is going to start hitting?
Shapiro: We saw some signs on the last trip that he was coming out of it. He’s too good a player to have only three homeruns.
Ingraham: Mark, do you think Shoppach really has a chance at the strikeout record of 204?
Shapiro: We’ve been talking about moving him up in the lineup to give him a better chance. Now that we’re 45 games out, it might be something for our fans.
Hoynes: How about Andy Marte? He’s leading the International League in slugging and has hit 47 homeruns. Is there any chance we might see him in Cleveland?
Shapiro: [Silence, looks at his watch.] The weather’s been awesome, hasn’t it?
You are assuming that Wedge will outlast Marte with the Indians
by Roger Dorn on May 5, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
How about instead of bringing him back, we hope another team gets drunk on his age-21 stats and trades us a serviceable bullpen arm for him?
Just wanted to expand on my post from earlier in the thread. I’m not too critical of Wedge here, just because everyone is failing him right now. But I think it’s at the point where he needs to stop responding to chaos with chaos. When the phone rings in the bullpen, nobody has any idea who is going to be getting up. For the next few games, he needs to say that Lewis (or Betancourt) is the 8th inning guy, with Sipp and Betancourt (or Lewis) to get you through the 7th. Perez, Chulk, and Kobayashi will be used when they’re trailing or prior to the 7th. It’s not always going to work this way due to availability, etc, but let’s get some stability down there.
I would not bring Lewis into a middle of an inning for the next few appearances. Get him a couple of scoreless outings and see if he can get something going.
I’m not down on Wedge either. This entire bullpen sucks, and there’s little he can do other than throw guys out there and pray. There’s no way to know from game-to-game who is going to be adequate. In a sense, we don’t need a manager, we need a Magic 8 Ball. Even yesterday, when he put Perez in with a lead; it’s easy to say that was a bad idea, but what was the better idea? The only arm in the bullpen who had been even remotely reliable was Sipp, and I’d hate to see what his surgically-repaired arm would look like after a few turns on the one-man Circle of Trust.
I think Eric Wedge hears the calls for his head and he’s been panicking – he desperately wants to win a game and has been managing the bullpen that way. Run some guys out there in semi-regular roles. You can’t lose more than once, after all. I’m beginning to suffer Wedge fatigue. Fire him if you want, but don’t talk yourself into believing it’s going to make a difference.
My only complaint has been the pulling of Reyes. Why be so quick to go to a horrible pen in the first place? Reyes had his only rough inning, but it consisted of a couple sings and a lucky bunt single. With a 3 run lead, I would have been happy with him going one more
I think because Wedge didn’t want to have Reyes get into a high-leverage situation where the pen would implode. He was trying to give the pen its best chance to succeed.
Yeah I don’t mind not bringing Reyes out.
This feels like the threads from 2006 and 2008; everyone wants to blame Wedge to have someone to blame but the real culprits are the parts we can’t get rid of easily-the players. I mean, what’s a manager supposed to when he looks at the ’pen?
I think I am just generally terrified by our bullpen moreso than some of our mediocre starters. At this point, I’d like to avoid their use until necessary
The bullpen does not seem to be doing especially well when gifted with a comfortable lead.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 6, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
In a season full of horrible losses, I don’t really put this one above any others. We played .500 ball in a road series. I’ll take it. If we split with the Red Sox, that won’t be the end of the world either. Going 2-2 or even 1-3 against two of the best teams in the AL, on the road, is not really a huge cause of concern. It’s just that this terrible April magnifies it to appear so.
You’re right, splitting a road series is exactly what you should be hoping to do. It’s the way they continue to lose (and even win, sometimes) — by completely imploding once they go to the bullpen. If that’s going on, you can’t split on the road and then play .667 at home and go to the playoffs, because you aren’t going to actually win 1/2 on the road or 2/3 at home with any regularity.
Il faut d'abord durer.
I’ve heard that a pitcher from Akron might be finding his way to Cleveland very soon. While the source as a person is reliable, I’ve never heard any “inside information” from this person so I don’t know how good he is with this info. But anyway, Rondon and Lofgren came to mind.
Just throwing it out there. Consider this a drive-by. Mea culpa if this turns out to be silly but I only know so many people who have any idea who the hell Rondon is.
Steel Nick
Lofgren – no, not even a possibility. Rondon’s on the 40-man, so he’d be a candidate. But that would also mark a truly uncharacteristic (read: desperate) move from the front office.
I think we’re witnessing a serious change of tactic by Shapiro with regards to service time and prospect handling. Before the season, I would’ve told you that Sipp coming up early was at best a 50-50 shot-had to both stay healthy and absolutely dominate for the Indians to push him. Well, he didn’t even dominate and they still brought him up; it wasn’t an unthinkable one but it definitely fell pretty far on the spectrum of Shapiro aggressiveness.
Now, I would’ve told you there was almost no way, under no circumstances, that we’d see LaPorta or Valbuena in May. And here we are.
If Rondon shows up? I don’t know what to think.
It appears the FO is seriously reevaluating some of it’s basic tenets and making decisions based on a line of thinking they once rejected. I don’t know if that’s good or bad but I think we all need to rethink what we believe about the FO; these are not the guys whose player management moves we all could’ve predicted to a T. There are new variables that we haven’t identified.
I’m not calling Jay out by any means but he’s our resident expert on these issues and I am still desperate for him to explain to me what’s going on with LaPorta; it doesn’t fit in the model at all. All I can guess is that we, the fans, don’t have a good working predictive FO model right now and, from that it follows that we might start to see some crazy things.
I wonder if Shapiro is trying to save Wedge’s job-maybe Dolan has made it clear that Wedge is at the end of his rope; it seems inconceivable that he’s trying to save his own. Of course, it also seems inconceivable that Shapiro would finally given in to reactionary decisions in order to try to save Wedge’s job.
Maybe they decided that they’ve been making nice non-panicky decisions for the last 5 years and they haven’t won all that much. So they decided to change things.
by Cols714 on May 6, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, obviously that’s a possibility. But somehow I doubt it was that clear cut. I mean the new plan can’t just be “Make panic moves.”
There are good arguments for being more aggressive with pitchers. Most studies suggest that while you have to be mindful of workload, pitchers raw “stuff” doesn’t get better with age. They might learn to pitch better, but their stuff just declines as the innings mount on their shoulder and elbow. So while hitters raw abilities continue to improve into their late 20s, pitchers don’t.
So then the plan is…? To bring him up and hope he does well enough to help the tema but poorly enough to go down?
Or to bring him up and simply plan on sending him down no matter how well he does?
I’m not trying to be obstinate but it seems extremely not Shapiro to bring a player up with the whole plan being to send him back down.
I think the logic is he’s just a straight replacement for Hafner. Hafner comes back up, he goes back down for another month.
more seriously, LaPorta would have to be incredibly good in the few weeks he’ll be in Cleveland to say he is better than Travis Hafner, who is after all sporting a .910 OPS, right now
Yeah isn’t this the more pertinent question? Or will the Indians send down LaPorta if he’s out OPSing Ben by .200+ points?
I think the answer with LaPorta is that they decided to spend the money. We didn’t think it was worth it, but they did. Or at least, they decided that it was worth it to possibly spend the money (assuming he doesn’t struggle and get sent back down).
Or they think it is likely that LaPorta will warrant a contract that buys out his arb years and makes it irrelevant
That doesn’t make it irrelevant at all. The contract will absolutely be based on what he was likely to receive in arbitration.
I still struggle to believe what I wrote above, unless they are convinced that this next month is important enough to the whole season.
The really surprising part is that Shapiro has clearly shifted course here. He hasn’t ever done something like this in the past. It shows a certain desperation that we’ve never seen before.
-Erik
I guess so. I could see the owner coming to Shapiro and saying “What can we do? We are not letting this season die in May!”, and Shapiro laying out the options.
That’s a good point. Relatedly, it’s possible he wanted LaPorta up immediately, and went to Dolan to say “here’s what I want to do, and here’s what it will cost us over the next six years.”
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on May 6, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
He hasn’t ever done something like this in the past
I don’t have time at the moment to look into the details, but I’m not sure this is true
by APV on May 6, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Adam has it right … it’s unlikely they’ll have a situation where they would look like total idiots for sending LaPorta down. Hell, they could send him down tonight. Francisco is a much better fit for a 4th OF job, and LaPorta needs steady work, hardly has any pro experience at any level, if you think about it.
I do not think they’re resigned to spending the money. I do think they decided that he didn’t need to spend specifically May 2009 in the minors, and various events converged to make that the case.
Roger Dorn, anyone else bringing this up … buying out the arb years is absolutely a non-issue in these calculations. The fourth-year arbitration becomes a factor in in the value of the buyout contract, and you can see this very clearly in various contracts the Indians have done in the past. If he has enough service time to reach arbitration early, then that money is gone, one way or the other. Even if that were not the case, the odds are pretty good that LaPorta will never agree to a deal like that, because he’s repped by Boras.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 6, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that the FO seems to be reconsidering its MO. I’ve said it before, but despite being uber-rational, they’ve never really had a plan for the crucial part of The Plan – a system for getting exposure and eventually incorporating younger stockpiled talent (talent that in many cases has a higher ceiling than the known mediocrity in front of them) into the major league club.
Chalk it up to the foundational characterisitic of the FO, being risk averse. Dependable (or at least known) mediocrity often has trumped the unpredictable performance of a newbie. Callups have generally been made out of necessity rather than promoted on principle.
I think that’s changing – on one hand its become clear that a track record doesn’t mean predictability (an average vet can still suck hard) and that first exposures aren’t necessarily perilous (see the remarkable recent record of callups performing well).
Add to it the fact that it is 2009 after all, that The Plan is now mature and should be producing contenders, and you have a famously by the book (its own book, after all) FO willing to reevaluate, and perhaps rewrite, its own rules.
I agree that the FO seems to be reconsidering its MO. I’ve said it before, but despite being uber-rational, they’ve never really had a plan for the crucial part of The Plan – a system for getting exposure and eventually incorporating younger stockpiled talent (talent that in many cases has a higher ceiling than the known mediocrity in front of them) into the major league club.
Disagree with this almost totally. Every team faces the challenge of trying to break in rookies while still contending, and the Indians have broken in many while contending over the last several years. The perception of suppressing “stockpiled talent” while relying on “known mediocrity” is generally a fallacy. Most of the “stockpiled” do not project to being better than “mediocrity” in the big leagues — case in point, Francisco is eight years younger than Dellucci, but hasn’t really shown that he’s better than Dellucci. The veteran mediocrities have achieved things in the majors that most Triple-A prospects have never done, and aren’t any better than 50/50 to do at any point in their careers.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 6, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
But that “breaking in” has almost always been due to injury or total ineffectiveness on behalf of those above them. For example, why trade for Nixon when it was the perfect spot for Choo to assume the OF? Francisco was an immediate upgrade to Looch, not that he, in particular, has such a high ceiling, but he was and is a better OF and baserunner, and not much light between them at the plate (at least in Looch’s Tribe stint).
Main point is that we’ve never been quick on the trigger to promote to the ML club, even when arguably equal alternatives were available and ready. If a change in philosophy is in the works, it seems to involve that trigger.
Depth.
Signing the vet gives them choices and contingency plans. What you advocate is that they should not have choices or contingency plans.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 6, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
What about any of the older Akron starters as a conversion project? Frank Herrmann, Josh Tomlin, or Steven Wright? Or there’s some dude named Eric Stiller.
Gotta be Pestano.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on May 6, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s demonstrative of the effect that one beat writer can have on the perceptions of a fan base. It seems like Hoynes was the only one upset about it but, with enough rabble rousing rhetoric, people now seem to think Luis Issac is the Rosetta Stone of the bullpen.
Comment on Castro’s blog:
I still love the idea of bringing in Kenny Lofton as player / hitting coach. Give him an occasional start, a great PH, perhaps DH, and even @ 42 he still has speed and savy. I feel he has mellowed out at this point, would be truely humbled and appreciative for the opportunity, and man would he fill the stands.Yeah, that’d work.
Savy is the new grit. It’s savvy, but with so much speed the other v fell out.
by FredOx on May 6, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Savy = savvy, only leaner and meaner.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 6, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Let's Go Tribe
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
Featured Stories
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recent FanShots
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Photo: Padres fan regrets letting mother capture moment with Trevor Hoffman
- Marlins agree to unretire No. 5 for Logan Morrison, who will honor his father’s favorite player
- Weatherman Derek Holland does Dallas TV
- Ask Alex: Will Julio Teheran or Matt Moore win rookie of the year?
- Ku Klux Klan, umpires and bowling: Why the minor leagues tossed out Jim Evans academy
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
