Bullpen Move
Herges up, Perez down and Salas moved off of the 40-man.
No answer to the Sowers mystery either.
almost 3 years ago
JK in CBus
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Good move. I hate to see the Scarecrow get optioned, but something’s not right with him.
Jen-Lew should be next.
I could see Lewis for Rundles when Rich’s ten days are up…if Lewis doesn’t miraculously straighten it out by then.
Didn’t we actually give somebody up to get him?
Ben Francisco: An Outfielder only on baseball cards and roster sheets.
His Net is -9 so far.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 6, 2009 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Skimming Lastoria’s site, it seems that after he was optioned out of camp, he pitched one minor league game, but only threw a third of an inning on 10 pitches. He never pitched again and was placed on the reserve list. Lastoria kind of pondered whether it was because of a personal issue, as nothing had been reported of an injury. I do enjoy a nice mystery.
He’s not pitching well and he’s probably not the guy you lean on to join the sinking ship. Herges isn’t throwing any better, but he’s long past the point of melting after one or two bad appearances. Plus, I doubt the Herges move is the final move.
He can contribute with his arm and be like another bullpen coach. He’s going to billupsify the whole group.
by dgcambridge on May 6, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Looks for silver lining in his stats…
Hasn’t given up any HRs. Does that count? 3.86 ERA in April? Bound to be better than Perez?
I mentioned this in passing in another thread, but his BABIP is otherworldly at .387. I don’t know what scale I should be using to measure LD%, but his is 18.2%. Hopefully someone else can line those up and say whether the BABIP is out of line or if he’s getting smoked.
(His GB% is 51.5%, which I do know is good.) Link.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on May 6, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Small sample warnings apply.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on May 6, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
His career ERA+ is 109. If he gives us 50 innings at that level or higher, I’ll sponsor his page myself.
If he gives us 50 innings at that level
If he gives us 5 good innings this week I’ll be ecstatic
by APV on May 6, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
More and more looking like Sowers is about to be traded.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
The delay could just be due to finalizing the deal, getting approval from both ownership groups, etc. Maybe there’s some haggling over a low-level prospect being included. Maybe they’re working more than one deal and are just pretty sure they’re going to do one of them.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 6, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
1. Held out of start last night.
2. Not called up today.
3. No clear need for a starter in our rotation.
4. Still need more relievers.
5. Wedge reference to trying guys from “outside of the organization.”
6. Selling high is smart.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 6, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Consider myself Lawyered.
Wonder who would be taking a flyer on Sowers.
Ha, I bet its Baltimore, Washington, or Pittsburgh
by world dictator on May 6, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Tony’s now reporting that Frank Herrmann is being promoted to AAA. This is definitely starting to look more like a long-term move of Sowers out of Columbus. And if he’s not going to Cleveland, the trade seems likely. Wonder if Seattle has any middle relievers?
by APV on May 6, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
and Castro:
The Indians aren’t done there. They’ll continue to look for relief trade possibilities, though that’s not an easy area to shop for right now, and they’ll potentially slot some mid-level starting prospects into relief roles with the hope that they’ll click and can come aboard.
by APV on May 6, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
His new site banner is tragic.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on May 6, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
This would be worth calling up Perez ASAP, issues or no.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on May 6, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
And now Tony says Putnam is getting promoted to AA and getting moved to the bullpen. This is a lot of early May movement.
by APV on May 6, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow. That feels big. I wonder if they have always considered him a relief prospect in the long term or if they think they can make him into a middle reliever real quick.
I can’t believe that a month ago we were making fun of the Tigers’ pitching desperation.
Ben Francisco: An Outfielder only on baseball cards and roster sheets.
Yeah, it raises all the same questions. Is this a failure of scouting? I mean, we could’ve had Edwin Jackson or any number of other relatively successful guys over the last three years, be they rotation or bullpen options. Our scrap heap pick-ups, which were for a while a point of pride, have become failures exactly as they’ve needed to be successes.
As the burden of expectations has risen, the Indians have continued to try to fill the gaps the way they always have (and perhaps are financially compelled to)-dumpster diving and finding undervalued veterans. Unfortunately, they’ve failed at that of late.
Not sure that Wood represents an “undervalued” veteran. Or that trading for Smith was “dumpster diving.” Or that Jackson has been “relatively successful” for the past three years.
Or, for that matter, that we’d be having this discussion if Smith were healthy and Lewis and Perez hadn’t simply forgotten how to pitch.
Obviously, Jackson was not successful over the last three years. He represents the kind of player available that the Indians could’ve gotten before this season. Instead of getting him, they got Smith, Herges, Chulk, etc. That’s a choice they made and Smith is, for lack of a better term, closer to dumpster diving than anything else-we traded a spare part for a spare part-a reliever from the NL.
Wood is obviously a change of course but even if he were good, he would not have solved many problems. The Indians major league player acquisitions generally fall into those categories-not every one, but many.
Or, Smith is just a little banged up and could be pretty effective and cheap for several years.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 6, 2009 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn’t that sort of the definition of dumpster diving? Taking on a small level of risk to get something pretty effective?
You’re now saying that 99% of all relievers are essentially in the dumpster, basically everyone except Mo Rivera.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 7, 2009 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Defensible, but provocative.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 7, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Neither Herges nor Chulk were major league player acquisitions. They both signed minor-league deals, essentially to be insurance policies. Unfortunately, injuries and comical ineffectiveness have required both policies to be cashed in.
I’m also at odds with the assertion that trading for a cheap young pitcher with a history, albeit short, of success approximates dumpster diving, while failing to acquire a cheap young pitcher with a history of ineffectiveness represents some sort of failure of scouting. And I say that fully cognizant of their relative statistics to date.
We agree on two things: Wood is a major change of method, and Wood has been no good.
Jackson is dumpster diving. So is Smith. The point is picking the right guy out of the dumpster. It’s probably luck, not a failure of scouting, but when it hurts your team like this, there’s a breakdown somewhere.
Signing guys with ML records to STIs is a type of major league player acquisition. Sure, it’s insurance. So is Carroll. The point is picking the right insurance.
Is it ultimately about Perez and Lewis? Sure. But when everyone you evaluated as viable is this bad essentially 3 of 4 seasons, there’s a breakdown.
Look, I’ve been absolving the FO of this stuff for a long time with the old “the players have to play better” or “this is all a guessing game” or whatever. But at some point, you’ve got to guess right in order to contend.
Perez and Lewis aren’t/weren’t dumpster diving. They were in the system and called up. They were depth, next in line and performing ok, not evaluated for acquisition.
But, more to the point, the front office seems to have a better track record acquiring undervalued prospects than overrated veterans.
Though I’m not sure I’d put Jackson and Smith in the “overrated veterans” category yet.
I don’t think I wrote anywhere that Raf/Jens are dumpster reclamation projects. Obviously they were depth.
I’d agree they’re better with the prospects than with the vets but my larger point is simply you can’t screw up nearly every one of your bullpen evaluations nearly every season.
I’m really just parroting Jay here but the bullpen cannot continue to be historically bad and the answer simply be “Ah, bullpens! Crazy, right?”
If Raf/Jens aren’t dumpster diving, than neither is Smith. He’s had the exact same career path, we just acquired him in a trade after his first big-league season. But all pitchers come with risk for at least minor injuries.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 7, 2009 7:59 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m confused. How is Smith dumpster diving? He is young, sped through the minors and was solid part of a good team for two years. We acquired him with the thought that he would give us 50-65 innings of 120 ERA+ quality or better- what he is done his entire pro and amateur career. Some in high leverage situations. This is a very significant player. And we acquired him as part of a pretty significant trade. He is under team control for several more years at affordable prices. Essentially, between Wood and Smith, Shapiro was breaking any perceived mold that the bullpen can survive organically.
In other words, what could the organization have done differently?
I’m making this point. Andrew is saying there’s no real difference.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 7, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I could argue Jackson wasn’t dumpster diving as well. He was always on my radar as a potential breakout guy even since his days coming up with the Dodgers. Sometimes pitchers take a while to develop and figure things out at the ML level. That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if his success isn’t sustainable over a long period of time.
Sometimes, I just like to b****.
But the Hermann and Putnam moves just fill in Herges’ spot, right? Doesn’t really say anything about Sowers.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 6, 2009 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyway, RHP Frank Herrmann has been promoted from Double-A Akron to Triple-A Columbus. RHP Jack Cassel was moved to Mahoning Valley to make room for Herrmann, though as reported earlier LHP Jeremy Sowers has left Columbus and Herrmann will ultimately be replacing him most likely. Still no word on what Sowers’ situation is, whether he is being traded or in Boston with the Indians for another forthcoming roster move.
Lastoria. Just tossin it in.
What’s the deal when a guy like Cassel gets sent to like Mahoning Valley? He never actually goes there, right?
Yeah, I know. I just have this image of him being forced to ride a bus alone to Mahoning Valley and like practice or something.
How can I give odds on this? I’m just speculating; that’s what the combination of events looks like to me.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 6, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m guessing its either Oakland, Baltimore, or the Mets.
I’m hoping its instead with the Dbacks or Dodgers.
Though about it. They have five decent starters (Cook, Jimenez, De La Rosa, Marquis, and Morales) and I’m not sure the Rockies are dealing Huston Street just yet. Jason Grilli is intriguing, but I’m not sure he’d be enough to make Cleveland bite with Sowers. Cleveland probably has no interest in the struggling Manny Corpas, and that’s before mentioning the guaranteed dollars attached to him.
Herges, by the way, has a sister who’s married to Todd Hollandsworth. In fact, it was Herges’ idea. Talk about your good teammates …
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
… if you think marriage is a good idea.
I keed, I keed.
by JulioBernazard on May 6, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, it wasn’t Herges’ idea that they get married, only that they get together. You know, like in Spies LIke Us … “Here’s a picture of my sister …”
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 6, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
“She would think a certain player is cute. Like Paul Konerko. He’s one of my best friends in the world. But that was an immediate no. An absolute not. He’s not dating my sister.”
Herges = True Indian!
by JulioBernazard on May 6, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Money quote:
There was always guys she would ask about. She would think a certain player is cute. Like Paul Konerko. He’s one of my best friends in the world. But that was an immediate no. An absolute not. He’s not dating my sister.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 6, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
OUR BEST PLAYERS DO NOT WEAR SUPER-SUITS!
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 6, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I give you credit for not putting quote marks in your quote box.
by JulioBernazard on May 6, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s why I get the big bucks.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 6, 2009 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Why is Laffey always considered the more obvious bullpen option? He started 104/126 in the minors and was never really used as a reliever.
And he’s been a good starter at a young age in his entire major league career. I think Sowers is deserving of another chance, but not at Laffey’s expense.
I thought the same thing, but Sowers has even less experience out of the bullpen. Zero games. I guess Laffey has, at least, more composure than Sowers has shown in his career. And that can help when Laffey is used in high leverage situations within the week.
Oh, he does. But he’s fun to watch since I go to a lot of Giants games. But I guess his shortcomings would be a lot less fun when it’s in an Indians uniform and I actually care about the outcome of the game.
Yeah, I don’t love this but I don’t hate it only because I am on the side of Sowers does not profile as a reliever at all to me.
I can see Laffey being a good reliever and that’s where the need is right now-it appears that all the possible options were considered and they decided to put the largest talent into the ‘pen. I can’t disagree with that too strongly.
I’m surprised Rondon didn’t go to Columbus to take Sowers’ spot. Where is Rondon? Have we figured that out?
Akron still. I don’t think he’s developed his secondary pitches, yet. I read, I think from Tony, that Rondon still is developing his other pitches. If he’s in the bullpen, that development probably stops.
I did not know that Rondon was scratched. Sowers was scratched yesterday, and now we know why. But when was Rondon scratched?
Nothing new on him skimming Lastoria. But he hasn’t pitched since April 28th, for whatever reason. Haven’t a few Akron games been rained out, though?
Don’t like it one bit.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on May 6, 2009 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry, I’m a little lost Matt Herges up, Raffy Perez down. Jeremy Sowers up… Aaron Laffey to bullpen… who was sent down? Lewis?
The move will be made tomorrow according to the article. No one was specified. But Lewis seems the most logical, I suppose?
I just can’t see farming out Lewis right now. He’s still the best right-handed option behind Betancourt. I think Herges is up for more than one day, though, so I’m guessing that if it’s a pitcher it has to be Lewis. Maybe Chulk gets the boot—I don’t think he has any chance of contributing in meaningful innings.
Man, what upside down world is this where we’re more willing to demote Rafael Perez, Jensen Lewis, and Joe Smith before parting ways with Masahide Kobayashi?
I’ve repeated it so many times, but I believe it: Masa can be effective when used correctly.
He threw 47 innings in 2007 in Japan. He threw 53 the year before, and 45 the year before that.
Then, Wedge used him heavily in 2008’s first half: Masa threw 40 innings in the first THREE MONTHS of the season. He was on pace for 80 innings. There’s a reason why he was burned out. He was used as heavily as the most frequently used “MLB” relievers, and his traditional workload in Japan was completely ignored or perhaps acknowledged and bypass as a result of the need for him to pitch a lot at the start of last year.
Why the Masa hate? I wasn’t high on him coming into the season, but isn’t he, with Sipp, the most obvious 8th inning option right now?
That’s my point. I was mostly stating that this is an upside down world in comparison to what we all expected/hoped for coming into the season. The idea of Perez, Lewis and Smith being more expendable than Masa would have been ridiculous.
I don’t actually hate this — I feel like Laffey’s GB tendencies could serve him well coming in with guys on base, and it’s not like this is a permanent move or anything. Whatever helps the team at this point, since we definitely need something.
it’s not like this is a permanent move or anything
Unfortunately, there’s a chance it is. Have you seen our pen?
Ben Francisco: An Outfielder only on baseball cards and roster sheets.
unless you mean permanent as in 2010, too.
Ben Francisco: An Outfielder only on baseball cards and roster sheets.
Laffey’s GB tendencies could serve him well coming in with guys on base
Yeah, I think ultimately this is why he goes to the pen rather than Sowers. Let’s just hope Sowers doesn’t generate more extra work for the pen than Laffey can absorb.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 6, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
They’re sort of a one-man no-doubles defense.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 6, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
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