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I don’t know about anyone else, but, for me, this is the first PED revelation that really shocks me. I had become fairly callous about the whole issue, until now.
Sure, a suspension in 2009 is not like using in 2002. At this point, everyone is clearly on notice, and none of the old excuses apply.
Big fish aren’t any harder to hit in a barrel
by APV on May 7, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
ESPN is saying that it’s most likely been known for a few weeks. What is the justification in waiting given the implications it could have had over the last 10 + games?
I can buy that, but if they’re going wait, shouldn’t they have answers to whether or not it was actually prescribed by a physician?
by clusterchuck on May 7, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
This actually shocks me – I always assumed that Manny was just that gifted. Now, honestly, his HOF is in question – maybe for the first time in years. Why Manny? You can’t be that stupid.
I just wanted to believe.
Can’t say that his HoF is in jeopardy, I don’t think. First, is it steroids? HgH? Amphetamines?
Also, with the testing and mitchell report stuff behind us, I think its clear- you test positive, you are suspended for 50 games. After that, there should be no penalty, formal or otherwise.
Tell that to the Writers and to the fans. If – IF – it was due a misnomer prescription, I could see some leeway. Otherwise – his chances are none. At least in my book. He would need to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that this was from that prescription. I don’t know how tough that would be to do. As of now, he’s guilty until proven innocent.
I just wanted to believe.
Even if it was to get a performance advantage this season- why punish more than the 50 games. To me, this is no more than a corked bat, at this point.
McGwire has never tested positive and never admitted breaking any rules.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 7, 2009 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Personally, I think he should be eligible for the Hall and I’d probably vote him in.
But, that was from a different era- when there was no testing and weak, if any, baseball rules or US laws that were in play. We are in a new era where we have penalties established for this type of thing. From what we know as of this moment- Manny had a very personal physcial condition and received a prescription to treat it. Turns out, the drug broke a baseball rule. The punishment for breaking this rule is 50 games, no play, no pay. The goal from the hard and fast rules is, or should be, to provide clarity and closure in these situations.
Ramirez is expected to say the positive test results were a result of medication received from a doctor for a personal medical issue.
this part of the debate will make me always sympathetic to the players.
Sympathetic because they have no privacy regarding their personal lives?
Or sympathetic that the players just don’t know how to say “I screwed up. I’m sorry”?
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
I would think sympathetic because doctors can screw up, too. Not saying that it’s necessarily true, either (it’s the best excuse anyone can use).
Ignorance is no excuse… As a professional at anything, I would pay close attention to everything I ingest – especially medication from a physician. The team has trainers and doctors for this purpose, don’t they?
Now, if we are sympathetic to ballplayers because they are ignorant, that I can understand. Or, sympathy for the need to keep private – maybe they do not want to share the information in-house – but Manny had the opportunity to confirm the safety and appropriateness of the medication.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
The privacy thing is a part of it. But to me, the definition of PED generically, or steroids specifically is a moving target for professionals (chemists, doctors, trainers, lawyers, the government). So much so, that I think it is silly to get to worked up over a situation when someone screws up. It’s stautory rape when the age of consent changes from day to day. It’s going 65 in a zone that is constantly changing from 50 to 65 to 70 and back. We make fun of it, but it really was—-and still is—- a loosey-goosey era.
This is especially true if its something short of steroid use.
I’d be okay with that if Manny uses “the moving target” as an excuse. However, that does not appear to be his defense, at this time. It can change, which is why I just feel shock right now – and don’t know what to think.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
Well, if a guy accidentally took something based on a doctor’s advice, he would say “It’s not my fault. My doctor made a mistake. It was a misunderstanding.”
And if a guy had a secret laboratory devoted to thwarting the tests and gaining every extra advantage by collecting steroids from the livers of stray puppies, he would say “It’s not my fault. My doctor made a mistake. It was a misunderstanding.”
Manny tossed my kid a ball in between innings last year at a Dodgers/Diamondback game. Ever since, he’s been a Manny fanatic. So really, this time, it’s like, “what about the children?”
On another note, can the Dodgers get any of their money back, even if it was/is a guaranteed deal?
Nope.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 7, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m a pretty big Ramirez fan (part of my hatred towards Boston is their role in turning him into “Manny”), but this doesn’t surprise me. It also doesn’t really change how I feel about him.
by APV on May 7, 2009 12:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I really wish they would announce the substance they found. If it’s a stimulant, then it could easily be in some other medication or something. If it is testosterone or a marker that indicates growth hormones, well then its more likely to be something a bit nefarious.
Silver lining:
Possibility for a fantastic spanish-language, “I can’t believe it’s not butter” commercial
by APV on May 7, 2009 12:13 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree. Do you think that MLB will do more cracking down?
by clusterchuck on May 7, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Jordan Schafer for fantasy OF? Ugh
Ben Francisco: An Outfielder only on baseball cards and roster sheets.
I’ll be honest, that’s where my first thought went to. I have Manny in a stock market-esque fantasy league and I can’t log in from work to sell his ass.
Thank god for Carlos Quentin
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on May 7, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Can we have the 07 ALCS back?
Ben Francisco: An Outfielder only on baseball cards and roster sheets.
by westbrook on May 7, 2009 12:28 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I had this thought- is it all the same policy in the MLB? I think it is in the NFL- you are susupended for using a banned substance and that includes steroids and cocaine and everything in between.
Exactly.
I’m sure the Sports Report Girl will sort all this out for us.
-Erik
by drerikbrady on May 7, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Further updates to the article:
“Recently I saw a physician for a personal health issue. He gave me a medication, not a steroid, which he thought was OK to give me,” Ramirez said. "Unfortunately, the medication was banned under our drug policy. Under the policy that mistake is now my responsibility. I have been advised not to say anything more for now.
“I do want to say one other thing; I’ve taken and passed about 15 drug tests over the past five seasons. I want to apologize to [Dodgers owner Frank] McCourt, Mrs. McCourt, [manager Joe] Torre, my teammates, the Dodger organization, and to the Dodger fans. LA is a special place to me and I know everybody is disappointed. So am I. I’m sorry about this whole situation.”
After consultation with the Players’ Association and his personal representatives, Ramirez waived his right to challenge the suspension. He will lose nearly $8 million of his $25 million salary.
It’s weird to me that he claims it was given to him by a physician, but he’s not appealing it either.
It’s just not grounds for an appeal. He’s strictly in charge of what goes into his body. That’s the policy. He’s just announcing it as public relations.
Yeah, elsewhere I’ve read speculation that he’s got a medical condition he doesn’t want public, so he’s avoiding the appeal because of that. Also, Will Carroll (in whom I put very little credibility, but whatever) Tweeted this: " Ok this is big … Manny was suspended under 8.G.2 of the JDA. That’s “other” and at Commish’s discretion. http://bit.ly/a7Kq0"
You think it could reveal why he was prescribed it, I take it? I’m trying to figure out what those reasons could be.
Bill Plaschke is a buffoon. I just saw him on ESPN say that Manny Ramirez must’ve REALLY messed up because he was suspended – he went on to say that even Clemens and ARod weren’t suspended, which means that Manny’s infraction must’ve been that much more severe.
I’m honestly dumbstruck at how badly he misunderstood the ARod thing.
I’m glad I didn’t hear that. My head would’ve exploded. Did he also mention that Jose Canseco was never suspended?
Lead singer and driver of the Winnebago.
I’m much more pissed that he decided to toss a doctor under the bus. Your doctor didn’t make this choice; you did.
Best quote I’ve heard from a friend of mine in SF…
“It’s just Manny being Barry.”
Lead singer and driver of the Winnebago.
by Fredward on May 7, 2009 1:17 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Testosterone is depleted by steroid use, which can cause sexual dysfunction.
by APV on May 7, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s not what I’m saying. But I think when you talk about a mid-30s professional athlete in a sport in which chronic steroid use has been fairly widespread – you have to be suspicious.
by APV on May 7, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps Manny just didn’t want to go through the 162-game grind. Perhaps take a little summer vaction and come back refreshed for a playoff run. The Dodgers should be able to hold first in their division during his absence.
This is so messed up if it was a sexual enhancer. That’s so messed up that they had to bring that to light. I’m furious.
Waiting for Rondon.
by Gradyforpresident on May 7, 2009 2:13 PM EDT reply actions
In fairness, I shouldn’t jump to conclusions. I don’t know a whole lot about different drugs, but I have a feeling that if a sexual enhancer is on the list, it probably means that the drug increases testosterone levels to an amount that would make it similar to the effects of using a steroid.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4148907
Most detail I’ve seen. I don’t know what hCG is, but it sounds like something that is legit to ban. And maybe has legit other reasons.
I’m impressed by his adroit use of the semi-colon.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 7, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno; we obviously need a doctor to weight in but if this sexual enhancer could have the same effects as, legal but banned by MLB stimulants then you absolutely have to suspend a player for taking it. Otherwise, it’s a gigantic loophole-as long as you get the prescription by saying you have a need for it in the bedroom, then you can get your hands on an essentially unlimited supply of MLB banned stimulant.
Does it suck to throw the baby out like that? Yeah but all the bathwater is so filthy.
I guess, but it begs the question- if there are serious and legit uses for the stuff, is it fair to expect MLB players to not use it for those legit uses? In other words, if a doc told him this was the best stuff for his problem, doesn’t it suck that he can’t follow his doc’s advice, just because he’s a baseball player? And can we really expect anyone in that position to abide by baseball’s new rules in this situation? Someone up thread asked if the chance of missing 50 games was enough of a deterrent. I say of course not. But I sure don’t want it being any larger of a penalty.
Well, if he has a real problem he can get an exemption from MLB to allow him to take drugs for it. I know there’s several players who are on something for ADD with the blessing of MLB, even though those drugs are technically banned.
You really want something like this to have to be disclosed to your employer. An employer that is notorious for not being able to keep things out of the media. Again, all things considered, based on what we know, I’m not sure if anyone would do anything differently than Manny.
Given that you’ve laid it out as the choice between being suspended or your secret getting out (which at this point is probably guaranteed to happen anyway), I think I’d take my chances telling MLB. It’s not just the 50-game suspension, it’s the fact that now everyone’s going to look at everything he does & be like, “well, that guy’s on roids anyway, so screw him.”
“well, that guy’s on roids anyway, so screw him."
And that’s what’s wrong with the entire debate. This zeal in dismissing any and all accomplishments because of steroid use.
Waiting for Rondon.
by Gradyforpresident on May 7, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, totally. I think the whole thing is way overblown because I think the extent of steroids in baseball are way larger than we’ll ever know. It also kills me that baseball is looked at as some horrible steroid-ridden wasteland while football’s able to sweep that stuff under the rug — even though I’d say with relative certainty that more football players are on steroids than baseball players.
I’m not charging you with that, specifically, but that mindset in general.
Waiting for Rondon.
by Gradyforpresident on May 7, 2009 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
MLB has no problem with players not wanting to tell them they have ADD. MLB in fact has the opposite problem — players claiming they have ADD so they can take greenies. There’s no significant stigma for a pro ballplayer to have ADD that I can tell.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 7, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess but I think this happens more often than might be readily apparent. There are a lot of useful drugs with side-effects that interfere with one’s ability to do a certain kind of work. As a result, people make the choice not to go on this drug.
I don’t think there’s a moral issue here; Manny is part of a union that negotiated this deal. No one expects him not to take the legal drug if he really needs it-his choices are to see if he can get an exemption or simply go without. It’s not like his life is in danger.
His other option, is to take the drug, don’t tell baseball, and confront it if they find out. If they find out, take your suspension and apologize, and move on.
That just seems like the absolute worst case, right? He’s now going to have to not take the drug (no way he gets an exemption now) and he’s hurt his public image.
Even if there are ligitimate uses, if the drug directly enhances ones ability to play baseball of course it should be banned.
I don’t think you can make exemptions for intent in this situation.
if the drug directly enhances ones ability to play baseball of course it should be banned
Totally disagree with this blanket statement. Otherwise-
No more cortisone shots. No more aspirin, or any pain killers. Advil is totally out. Decaff coffee only. I saw a reliever chugging a can of red bull the other day before taking the mound- give him a suspension.
Anyone think baseball has had some cancer survivors take some things on the banned substance list in their recovery? SUSPENSION!
Of course there needs to be exemptions. If these “PEDs” should be punishable at all.
This whole “poor Manny’s privacy” stance seems incredibly naive to me. There’s a whole therapuetic use exemption clause in the agreement, negotiated by the union and MLB. There are also detailed disclosure restrictions. Do we really think that we’re the first people to consider that a drug policy might need a therapuetic use exemption?
But you really want to believe that Manny was so afraid and ashamed that he would rather risk the test than just get the exemption. You’re really reaching dude.
While I have defended Manny on privacy grounds in this thread, my comment here has nothing to do with that.
But no, I don’t think I’m reaching when I think Manny might not trust the MLB’s ability to keep something private. After the A-Rod thing, is it really that surprising?
I also don’t mind him being suspended the 50 games if the drug was a known banned substance. I just think we should limit the punishment to that. It’s the thought that Manny might have his HoF status questioned that gets to me.
I knew as soon as I hit post that it was too broad of a statement.
Although I could argure that cortizone and painkillers don’t directly enhance a players ability to play.
Ingredients in redbull are actually banned by the NCAA. I remember my track coach telling us not to drink any energy drinks during the season (on this note certain levels of caffeine are banned by WADA).
But if a guy has a sore back and one cure give him the power him to hit 85 home runs, that cure should not be legal.
I think you have to be strongly suspicious that one of the reasons a mid-30s athlete is in need of sexual enhancers is because of chronic steroid use
by APV on May 7, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
That can’t be what this is about though. First, plenty of people have needs for sexual enhancers that have never touched steroids. Second, I don’t like the idea of suspending people for taking something that indicates there was an increased likelihood, at some point in the past, that the player had taken something else that might have caused the need to take this thing, and might have been against the rules at the time he took them, while not being sure of when that would have been.
I’m not saying he’s being suspended because of suspicion of steroid use. He’s being suspended because the sexual enhancer he used was banned. I don’t think it’s above question to think about why he needed the sexual enhancer, given the known usage of steroids in baseball, Manny’s success, and the known side-effects of steroid use.
by APV on May 7, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
That is not what he’s being suspended for, so why worry about it?
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 7, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
It might be.
First, there should be some warning when reading through this thread. We were learning stuff slowly and constantly all day.
But, from what I understand right now, this hCG doesn’t by itself make you perform better, but it is something you take if you did take performance enhancers in the past.
No, it is not what he was suspended for. There is no “might.”
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 7, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Has anyone considered that Manny’s personal issue is transsexuality? How mind blowing would that be?
I’m going to say, no, I have not considered that.
by fleerdon on May 7, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
It would be a great wrongdoing by MLB, that’s for sure.
Waiting for Rondon.
by Gradyforpresident on May 7, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess HCG is what steroids users to get their bodies to reproduce testosterone again after they cycle off steroids. Link
It’d put the T in LGFT.
Ben Francisco: An Outfielder only on baseball cards and roster sheets.
by westbrook on May 7, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The entire “steroid era” brouhaha is a joke. Some people did them; they could have made them better but we have no way of quantifying it; so let’s go all holier than thou and claim baseball is pure and innocent and these athletes have defiled it more than avowed, outright racists in the Hall of Fame do.
It’s a media-fueled scandal, through and through, and I just don’t understand. Didn’t people love ’98? Were were the outcries then?
It’s a joke. Steroid users were just trying to make themselves better. God forbid.
Waiting for Rondon.
by Gradyforpresident on May 7, 2009 2:46 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This line of thinking has so many arguments in it that I can’t stand. It’s like you have Joe Sheehan’s copy in front of you.
they could have made them better but we have no way of quantifying it
I can’t quantify the effects Tim Donaghy had on NBA games. Cheating is cheating; intent to cheat is intent to cheat. Just because you can’t measure doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
let’s go all holier than thou and claim baseball is pure and innocent and these athletes have defiled it more than avowed, outright racists in the Hall of Fame do.
I just don’t understand how the misdeeds of Ty Cobb, Eddie Stanky, and whoever else justify anything. Cobb’s racism is well-profiled and accompanies every single discussion of his accomplishments. If you’re saying they should be in the HOF, well, that’s a different argument than calling justified anger a “brouhaha” and a “joke.”
Didn’t people love ’98? Were were the outcries then?
In denial? I don’t know; I was 14 and don’t remember a time before baseball players didn’t look like Jose Canseco. But steroids weren’t exactly on the same level of national consciousness as they have been this decade. You know what? That’s why I get upset about steroids. I’ve never watched a game that didn’t involve them.
Steroid users were just trying to make themselves better. God forbid.
If this is your bottom line, remind me never to deal with you in a professional context.
Of course, all of this is really off topic if Manny actually required a sexual boost. But I hate the steroid apologia as much as I hate their introduction into the game..
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on May 7, 2009 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
How come we don’t put asterisks next to basball players who never competed against African-Americans?
We’re holding baseball players of this era to a standard that does not mesh with baseball’s history. People have cheated in baseball history, and they will continue to do so.
I guess my ultimate question is, why are steroids so much worse than anything else in baseball history to warrant such a huge—Congressional committee hearings!—response and damnation of those that took them.
Waiting for Rondon.
by Gradyforpresident on May 7, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Some people do discount players of the color barrier era, as well they should. And I don’t deny that cheating is a new phenomenon or one that will end. I just don’t think that justifies pretending it’s OK.
And I have questions about a lot of things Congress does, especially lately. But that is not for this forum. I think we can both agree the Congressional posturing is idiotic and wasteful.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on May 7, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
And I’d argue that it’s the sports media that caused the whole row in order to draw ratings and interest, and that the media created the public backlash, which lead to Congress acting.
And yes, we both agree on it.
Waiting for Rondon.
by Gradyforpresident on May 7, 2009 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I should also say that I have a very intense personal reaction to any sort of media-fueled mobs, and that’s personally driving my bitter reaction.
So I’m not saying that I’m some unbiased observer, because clearly I feel pretty strongly about this, and it very well could be clouding my thinking somewhat.
Waiting for Rondon.
by Gradyforpresident on May 7, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
p.s. It’s not my bottom line, it was flippant and stupid.
Waiting for Rondon.
by Gradyforpresident on May 7, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
No problem—obviously, I have a visceral reaction, too, and it’s based on the fact that many sabermetric types employ similar arguments. That makes it look like “hey, all the smart people think the steroids stuff is stupid, so it must be stupid.” I think it’s irresponsible. But I believe in accountability, and in personal ethics. That’s part and parcel to everything I say about steroids.
And you’re right, above, about the sports media. When ESPN has a daily investigative show (OTL) and a weekly one (E:60), you know what? Get a freaking life. You’re just stirring crap up at that point. You’re not the Washington Post, and you sure as hell don’t conform to its standards of reporting.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on May 7, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
HCG is a women’s fertility drug typically used by steroid users to restart their body’s natural testosterone production as they come off a steroid cycle.
Uh huh. I will ask Mom what the deal is with this stuff. Pop is just a bone straightener.
I guess Manny wasn’t taking a
bone straightenerafter all.
by JulioBernazard on May 7, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Tony Lastoria touched on this in a recap of yesterday’s move today. The important part:
I even asked Farm Director Ross Atkins point blank in our sit down last week about the possibility of a bullpen role for Rondon this year, and he emphatically denied that Rondon was an option for the bullpen. Like I said, anything can happen, but a move of Rondon to the bullpen as a short-term fix is extremely unlikely.
by APV on May 7, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Manny never should have left the loving protection of George Mitchell.
by JulioBernazard on May 7, 2009 3:10 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Does Boston by chance play the Dodgers in IL play soon?
Ben Francisco: An Outfielder only on baseball cards and roster sheets.
Possibly within the next 50 games
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on May 7, 2009 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
This is just stuck on the end of the ESPN article, for no apparent reason, and made me laugh:
In St. Louis, a clubhouse attendant stuck his head into manager Tony La Russa’s office and said “Manny Ramirez, 50 games, steroids.”
La Russa’s reaction: “You’re kidding me.”
Imagine if he’d told him it was a female fertility drug.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on May 7, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
La Russa’s reaction: “By the beard of Zeus!”
by dgcambridge on May 7, 2009 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
LaRussa is still in denial over McGwire.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 7, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
So, hold on, Manny Ramirez, Brett Favre and Kobe Bryant are the lead stories again? Sometimes, I just need to walk away from sports. I don’t care about any of it.
The whole thing still smells like dead fish. I see two primary scenarios:
- Manny Ramirez, a male in his 30s, is suffering from erectile dysfunction. To treat this condition, his doctor prescribes a gonadotropin that can increase fertility by increasing testosterone production, rather than the far more commonly used drugs like Viagra or Cialis, neither of which are banned by baseball.
- Manny takes a gonadotropin in order to increase testosterone production for the same reason that all the other PED users in baseball do.
You pick.
by FredOx on May 7, 2009 4:31 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
No doubt his “alleged” PED use was being managed by someone else, and, you know, mistakes happen, especially when they can’t be done by legitimate professionals, out in the open.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 7, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, if that was even really true, yes.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 7, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
3. Manny is really sensitive (or conversely, overly macho) and doesn’t want anyone to find out he needs an ED prescription; he tells his doctor he doesn’t want to use Viagra or Cialis or any of the other common ED pills…“isn’t there something else? Something that isn’t as widely known that I can take?” The doctor prescribes an alternative that most people wouldn’t associate with ED, at least not as readily as the ones we all see commercials for.
I personally don’t want to pass judgment until a lot more information is made known.
I don’t find this scenario the least bit credible.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 7, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Neither do I for the most part, but then again, it seems beyond belief that any of these guys are using/still using PEDs of any sort.
Dude, probably dozens of them are on hGH, because there is no test. Maybe hundreds, who knows?
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 7, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
…Just saying that given the stigma of getting caught (whether it is now or later) and the penalties in place at this time, it becomes ever more suprising that players keep using all this stuff. Especially in the case of substances that CAN be tested for.
I mean, by your rational, why not assume that ALL players are using HGH? Since MLB will not test for it (or that the test is too hard to implement or fallible at this point), what do they have to lose if there is so much to gain (legality aside) ?
That’s a perfectly reasonable question. It is reasonable to assume, I think, that some players have been cowed in general by the new environment, and that players with HOF aspirations have taken note of what has happened to guys who were HOF no-brainers. But most players have big-league aspirations, not HOF aspirations, and there appear to be no long-term repercussions in terms of income potential.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 7, 2009 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
But Viagra & Cialis are both allowed by the league, I believe. Why would he risk is career so nobody finds out he’s got ED problems? Hell, Rafael Palmeiro was in a bunch of Viagra ads as a player, it can’t be that stigmatized.
I think that a lot of men wouldn’t want it known that they are taking ED pills. For the moment, I believe it is necessary to at least entertain the notion that Manny DID NOT know that what he was prescribed violated MLB regulations in any way. If his problem is legitimate and he trusted his doctor’s treatment then why would he think that he might be putting his career in peril? Should he have consulted with the team physician before taking something? Probably. But if he was genuinely embarrassed over his problem I can see where he wanted to distance himself from the club house. It seems like people constantly cause themselves far greater embarrassment/harm by going to extreme lengths to try and avoid a much more minor problem/situation to begin with.
I see no evidence that he had an ED problem or was prescribed an ED medication.
The whole ED story seems like a rationalized smokescreen to me; there’s no substance.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on May 7, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
If anyone’s interested, I wrote a short piece on Manny for one of my blogs.
I'm *always* in the driver's seat, cugino -- Chuck
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