More on DeRosa-Perez swap, reactions from Lee and others
The Accountability All-Stars weigh in. Wood: "This is the result of how we've played as a team." Hafner: "We're going to miss him. At the same time, this team has a lot of depth at positions and we're still looking to win as many games as we can." But as for Cliff: "Until you have a no-trade clause in your contract, there's always a chance something will happen."
The sidebar names Jess Todd and Francisco Samuel as two of the names on the Indians' pick list.
7 months ago
Jay
111 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
Out of curiosity, Bernie Miklasz’s quick-take speculation… that the quality of the PTBNL would be tied to whether or not the Cards signed DeRosa to an extension… is that even theoretically possible/legal? I would think the PTBNL would have to be decided upon by a certain date, no?
by cheech99 on Jun 28, 2009 2:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No, I’d say the Indians would have to make the pick by a certain date, but before the end of the season.
by Ryan on Jun 28, 2009 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sidebar of article sez “on or before Sept. 1” (which concludes the minor league season).
Both those players mentioned seem like good pickups that could help quickly in the pen.
by mcrose on Jun 28, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The minor league regular season actually ends around September 7, and the minor league postseason doesn’t wrap up until around September 18.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 28, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Labor day’s usually the last game. You’re right, its late this year. Could be they were using 9/1 as shorthand for the end of the season too, who knows.
by mcrose on Jun 28, 2009 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PTBNL is coming by 9/1 the reporting says, so it does seem unlikely.
by gmfrodo on Jun 28, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know what’s strange is that Jess Todd is on the 40-man, and it isn’t necessarily easy to swap 40-man guys in late August, let alone September.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 28, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
IInteresting point … does a 40-man PTBNL roster player have to clear waivers if moved post-trading deadline?
by FallsTribeFan on Jun 28, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reasons I really want Todd:
1. His nick name is The Destroyer
2. His minor league career is referred to as the “HE WILL DESTROY US ALL” period
3. See pictures here
by world dictator on Jun 28, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He could then enter the game to epic music provided by “This Will Destroy You”. Preferably this, starting at 5:50.
Shin-Soo Choo, future U.S. Citizen.
by USSChoo on Jun 28, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then you will, or probably already also, like Mono. Yea?
Shin-Soo Choo, future U.S. Citizen.
by USSChoo on Jun 29, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mono, not so much. I don’t have the patience for the super long buildups. But I’m into other bands like that…Caspian, Grails, Yndi Halda. Generally more interested in the Isis/Cult of Luna type of stuff though.
by cleveland teamer on Jun 29, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do not like this band from what I’ve heard.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jun 29, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a very specific genre.. and really shouldn’t be listened to in the wrong situation.
Shin-Soo Choo, future U.S. Citizen.
by USSChoo on Jun 29, 2009 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So is listening to it when you tell me to a wrong situation?
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jun 29, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha, good question. Are you kicked back and relaxed and not focused heavily on something or doing anything else distracting you from the music?
Shin-Soo Choo, future U.S. Citizen.
by USSChoo on Jun 29, 2009 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m watching The Suite Life of Zack and Cody (leave me alone everyone, I should be allowed my mindless shows.)
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jun 29, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I approve of this only because the one kids name is Cody. But this would be the wrong time to listen to that, then again it might just not be your cup of tea. Try it sometime though when its quite and around dusk and you have nothing to do but sit on the porch.. or something similar.
Shin-Soo Choo, future U.S. Citizen.
by USSChoo on Jun 29, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*quiet.
Shin-Soo Choo, future U.S. Citizen.
by USSChoo on Jun 29, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Off. Old school.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jun 29, 2009 1:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think there are only three appropriate songs for The Destroyer:
- Destroyer, by The Kinks
- Creeping Death, by Metallica
- Destroyer, by Static-X
The latter includes both “deep dirt on your s*** highway” and “lead shot in your mood shooter” as lyrics.
by FredOx on Jun 29, 2009 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Todd looks like he’d be a great addition. Low walk per inning ratio. I really hope they pick him up!
by MooneysRebellion on Jun 28, 2009 3:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Some of the other posts have mentioned Perez’s “control issues” as a concern. How have the Indians done with other young talent with “control issues?”
by ShawnK on Jun 28, 2009 3:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What is that is that you said? Hey look behind you!
::runs away::
by Toxicadam on Jun 28, 2009 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How long has that Sweet Baboo been on the sidebar?
by Voltaire on Jun 28, 2009 4:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
3 days?
--
Force quit and move to trash.
by vbc3 on Jun 28, 2009 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since a few minutes after salome made it the other night.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 28, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
6 walks in 3.1 innings for Laffey today. Not good
by Roger Dorn on Jun 28, 2009 5:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking that wishing for Todd was being unreasonable. Samuel has a high K rate, but Todd being an apparent major league ready pitcher, while only being eight months older, and with such a low walk rate, I’m going Todd.
by JRontherim on Jun 28, 2009 6:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not gonna lie, I’ve been a big Chris Perez fan for a while.
Trade Cliff.
by Gradyforpresident on Jun 28, 2009 6:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not gonna lie, I figured you were dead.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 28, 2009 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You were probably a big Ferd Cabrera fan too.
by Toxicadam on Jun 28, 2009 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m with Andrew here (it’s Andrew right GFP?). These guys are my weakness.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jun 28, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was honestly sold on the CC trade because of Bryson.
Trade Cliff.
by Gradyforpresident on Jun 29, 2009 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not an ounce of optimism left here
by Roger Dorn on Jun 28, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it bad that I have a Ferd t-shirt?
I believe in Carl Pavano.
by salome on Jun 28, 2009 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baseball America has Todd ranked as STL’s 4th best prospect. Meaning we would’ve traded DeRosa for STL’s 3rd and 4th best prospects. Of course organization rankings are all relative and I don’t know how good STL’s farm system is. Still its interesting to note.
by world dictator on Jun 28, 2009 9:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Keith Law had St. Louis farm as the number 6 in baseball right behind the Cleveland Indians
by Roger Dorn on Jun 28, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
right behind the Cleveland Indians
for some reason that doesn’t make me feel better.
Kind of irrational I know, but I’m sticking to it.
by world dictator on Jun 28, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve read enough Keith Law that I trust his judgment on these things
by Roger Dorn on Jun 28, 2009 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I took issue with the Cleveland Indians part more than the Keith Law part
by world dictator on Jun 28, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This must be some sort of shrewd plan to maximize revenues in Columbus.
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
by rolub on Jun 28, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is this a huge pile of “meh” to anyone else but me?
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
by Turkmenbashi on Jun 28, 2009 11:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Me.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 28, 2009 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are you referring to, the link?
by Roger Dorn on Jun 28, 2009 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If so I agree, I just like spill over threads where there aren’t already 200 comments.
Shin-Soo Choo, future U.S. Citizen.
by USSChoo on Jun 29, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me, too. Until someone gives me the name of a non-reliever, I really don’t care.
by APV on Jun 29, 2009 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you don’t care about getting good relievers? its possible we might be having trouble in that department.
by gmfrodo on Jun 29, 2009 8:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m just going to hold off on calling a guy a “good reliever” till he can show he can get the ball over the plate. Consider this comparison:
Player A: Age 24 (MLB)
60.2 IP, 27.7 K%, 12.5 BB%
Player B: Age 24 (MLB)
23.2IP, 28.3 L%, 14.2 BB%
I’ll give you a hint and tell you Player B is Chris Perez. Guess who Player A is…
by APV on Jun 29, 2009 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I give up. Who is it?
You’re right, Perez could end up as dog-meat. I guess I read your comment as not caring about getting relievers generally. If there are better relievers available, lets get them, by all means.
by gmfrodo on Jun 29, 2009 9:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Player A is Fernando Cabrera. I have no idea what makes a good reliever. I tend to like guys who have at least one really good pitch (R. Perez – slider) vs. those who don’t (J. Lewis). But then you have a guy like Betancourt who was a very good and consistent reliever with one pitch, period, but with good control and deception. Chris Perez seems to have two good pitches, which is very good, but I wonder about his long-term effectiveness given his control issues. My ambivalence about relievers is simply that I have no idea what makes or who will be a good reliever, so it is harder for me to get excited about putting one as the centerpiece of a trade.
by APV on Jun 29, 2009 9:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was going to guess Cabrera. My reason for optimism I guess is that if this guys gets some better control….he becomes lights out. Not just good, but great
by Roger Dorn on Jun 29, 2009 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As usual, these are excellent points.
Afh4 (Andrew? is it appropriate to refer by first name to someone I don’t know?) had a good point a few months ago, which is at the heart of where I am coming from on the DeRosa trade. He said something to the effect of, there has to be a better answer to the team’s performance than “bullpens—crazy, huh?”
It may be the case that bullpens really are a crapshoot. What the heck do I know? Very little, for sure. But if this is so, then much of the sturm und drang surrounding shapiro, wedge, the flaws in the Front Office’s approach is misplaced. You throw together what you can, and your team will be good or bad basically on the basis of bullpen luck.
Because I want to believe the opposite, I am happy to see Shapiro struggling to find good bullpen talent, despite the fact that this is destined to be a high variance activity under any scenario. I think you actually make a pretty good case for Perez in your post above. He has two good pitches and throws hard. In current form, with his wildness, he seems to be a decent bullpen arm. If a magical future where we have corrected his wildness, he looks awesome.
In sum, I am excited to see Shapiro working hard on a problem that murdered us this year, even if there is a large element of uncertainty.
by gmfrodo on Jun 29, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is pretty much in line with my thinking, too.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 29, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perez could also be the next Bobby Jenks. That was a guy with stuff but couldn’t find control at first.
by elsandito on Jun 29, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As was Mesa.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 29, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same here. I mean these PTBNwaaaayL deals are kinda cool, but I’m kind of dumbfounded about how excited people are about getting Chris Perez for Mark DeRosa when we got Crlos Freakin’ Santana for Casey Blake.
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
by Turkmenbashi on Jun 29, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suspect also that the caliber of pitching you can steal away in these deals is lower than the caliber of position players, in general. Pitchers are never blocked, for one thing — there’s no such thing as an overabundance.
by Logodaedalus on Jun 29, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well if we were in fact looking for an ML arm, there had to be some sort of flaw with the guy in order for us to obtain him
by Roger Dorn on Jun 29, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, right. The ceiling/ML-proximity tradeoff.
by Logodaedalus on Jun 29, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or, well, not exactly ceiling in this case, since it seems that Perez’s ceiling is pretty high, but he needs to gain control if he’s going to reach it.
by Logodaedalus on Jun 29, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BUCHHOLZ
Proud Fan of the Worst Baseball Team I've Ever Seen
by westbrook on Jun 29, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll TAKE him.
Jay was just telling me the other day how much better he’s going to be than Sowers.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jun 29, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I was. Slightly.
You know what’s funny, a guy who’s slightly better than Sowers could well come up with 20 quality starts in 2010.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 29, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was telling you how much better he’d be than Sowers: slightly.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 29, 2009 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean being competitive is kinda cool, but I’m kind of dumbfounded about how excited people are about winning 90 games a couople of time when we went to the playoffs every year in the ’90s.
Your standards are off.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 29, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, that misspelling wasn’t even intentional.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 29, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some of those playoff-bound teams from the 90’s really were not very good.
I still think the 2005 Indians, who missed the playoffs, were the best all-around club we’ve had since Belle left in 1996.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 29, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All-around is an interesting caveat. With the exceptional performance of the bullpen that year, I don’t think I can disagree.
If we had just an average bullpen in 99, they win the World Series
by Roger Dorn on Jun 29, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now I think your standards for “not very good” are off. But the pitching on some of those latter teams does make one shudder.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 29, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They were good, but they weren’t very good.
In an average division, we certainly wouldn’t have captured six titles.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 29, 2009 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1997, 1998 and 2001 for sure. It’s amazing to me that four teams won at least 94 games in 1999.
by FredOx on Jun 30, 2009 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Leads me to think the mystery man might raise some eyebrows.
by fleerdon on Jun 29, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is anyone positive that Perez® will have better career numbers than Jeff Stevens?
by Toxicadam on Jun 29, 2009 1:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He is registered?
Shin-Soo Choo, future U.S. Citizen.
by USSChoo on Jun 29, 2009 3:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet he means Perez right.
I think the Giants Brian Wilson is a good comp to Chris Perez. Wilson has battled control issues off and on his whole career. He has learned the art of being effectively wild. Maybe Perez does the same.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jun 29, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does Wilson have a fastball even approaching that of Perez’s?
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 29, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually Wilson’s may be better. His is a tick over 96 mph this year. (96.3)
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jun 29, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I stand corrected, then.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 29, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ooo I get it. Man, Raffy left is really getting a squeeze on what he can be referred to.
Shin-Soo Choo, future U.S. Citizen.
by USSChoo on Jun 29, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t the 25 man full? I wonder who goes tonight when they activate Perez. Any thoughts?
by MTF on Jun 29, 2009 12:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Barfield or Valbuena
Proud Fan of the Worst Baseball Team I've Ever Seen
by westbrook on Jun 29, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
damn, wanted to get that two weeks out of the way…
by Brick. on Jun 29, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so i feel like it doesn’t make sense that the cardinals would give us two of their ready/near ready back-end power arms. more that they were willing to part with perez because of the presence of the others within their depth/position of strength…
by Brick. on Jun 29, 2009 2:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The sector where the three circles intersect is where this year’s effective bullpen pitchers for the Tribe are located.
by peter m on Jun 29, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
We just need to do our bullpen shopping at Excluded Middle Mart
by Logodaedalus on Jun 29, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, but Jose Valverde’s middle name is Rafael so we can add him
by Roger Dorn on Jun 29, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you know this?
Proud Fan of the Worst Baseball Team I've Ever Seen
by westbrook on Jun 29, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I searched at B-R.com for Rafael and it gave me a list of Rafael’s to have played baseball including those with the middle name Rafael
by Roger Dorn on Jun 29, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is it about a good Venn diagram that just makes the rec finger dance?
by Logodaedalus on Jun 29, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read something from a St. Louis writer that suggested that Francisco Samuel was considered “untouchable” as soon as last year
by Roger Dorn on Jun 29, 2009 7:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
As soon as last year?
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 29, 2009 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Let's Go Tribe!
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
Featured Stories
Sweet Baboo
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
