More on DeRosa-Perez swap, reactions from Lee and others
The Accountability All-Stars weigh in. Wood: "This is the result of how we've played as a team." Hafner: "We're going to miss him. At the same time, this team has a lot of depth at positions and we're still looking to win as many games as we can." But as for Cliff: "Until you have a no-trade clause in your contract, there's always a chance something will happen."
The sidebar names Jess Todd and Francisco Samuel as two of the names on the Indians' pick list.
over 2 years ago
Jay
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Out of curiosity, Bernie Miklasz’s quick-take speculation… that the quality of the PTBNL would be tied to whether or not the Cards signed DeRosa to an extension… is that even theoretically possible/legal? I would think the PTBNL would have to be decided upon by a certain date, no?
No, I’d say the Indians would have to make the pick by a certain date, but before the end of the season.
Sidebar of article sez “on or before Sept. 1” (which concludes the minor league season).
Both those players mentioned seem like good pickups that could help quickly in the pen.
The minor league regular season actually ends around September 7, and the minor league postseason doesn’t wrap up until around September 18.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
You know what’s strange is that Jess Todd is on the 40-man, and it isn’t necessarily easy to swap 40-man guys in late August, let alone September.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
IInteresting point … does a 40-man PTBNL roster player have to clear waivers if moved post-trading deadline?
by FallsTribeFan on Jun 28, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Reasons I really want Todd:
1. His nick name is The Destroyer
2. His minor league career is referred to as the “HE WILL DESTROY US ALL” period
3. See pictures here
by world dictator on Jun 28, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
He could then enter the game to epic music provided by “This Will Destroy You”. Preferably this, starting at 5:50.
Shin-Soo Choo, future U.S. Citizen.
Mono, not so much. I don’t have the patience for the super long buildups. But I’m into other bands like that…Caspian, Grails, Yndi Halda. Generally more interested in the Isis/Cult of Luna type of stuff though.
by cleveland teamer on Jun 29, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I do not like this band from what I’ve heard.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jun 29, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s a very specific genre.. and really shouldn’t be listened to in the wrong situation.
Shin-Soo Choo, future U.S. Citizen.
So is listening to it when you tell me to a wrong situation?
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jun 29, 2009 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Haha, good question. Are you kicked back and relaxed and not focused heavily on something or doing anything else distracting you from the music?
Shin-Soo Choo, future U.S. Citizen.
I’m watching The Suite Life of Zack and Cody (leave me alone everyone, I should be allowed my mindless shows.)
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jun 29, 2009 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I approve of this only because the one kids name is Cody. But this would be the wrong time to listen to that, then again it might just not be your cup of tea. Try it sometime though when its quite and around dusk and you have nothing to do but sit on the porch.. or something similar.
Shin-Soo Choo, future U.S. Citizen.
I think there are only three appropriate songs for The Destroyer:
- Destroyer, by The Kinks
- Creeping Death, by Metallica
- Destroyer, by Static-X
The latter includes both “deep dirt on your s*** highway” and “lead shot in your mood shooter” as lyrics.
Todd looks like he’d be a great addition. Low walk per inning ratio. I really hope they pick him up!
by MooneysRebellion on Jun 28, 2009 3:25 PM EDT reply actions
Some of the other posts have mentioned Perez’s “control issues” as a concern. How have the Indians done with other young talent with “control issues?”
Not gonna lie, I’ve been a big Chris Perez fan for a while.
Trade Cliff.
by Gradyforpresident on Jun 28, 2009 6:27 PM EDT reply actions
I was honestly sold on the CC trade because of Bryson.
Trade Cliff.
by Gradyforpresident on Jun 29, 2009 2:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Baseball America has Todd ranked as STL’s 4th best prospect. Meaning we would’ve traded DeRosa for STL’s 3rd and 4th best prospects. Of course organization rankings are all relative and I don’t know how good STL’s farm system is. Still its interesting to note.
right behind the Cleveland Indians
for some reason that doesn’t make me feel better.
Kind of irrational I know, but I’m sticking to it.
by world dictator on Jun 28, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I took issue with the Cleveland Indians part more than the Keith Law part
by world dictator on Jun 28, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Is this a huge pile of “meh” to anyone else but me?
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
you don’t care about getting good relievers? its possible we might be having trouble in that department.
I’m just going to hold off on calling a guy a “good reliever” till he can show he can get the ball over the plate. Consider this comparison:
Player A: Age 24 (MLB)
60.2 IP, 27.7 K%, 12.5 BB%
Player B: Age 24 (MLB)
23.2IP, 28.3 L%, 14.2 BB%
I’ll give you a hint and tell you Player B is Chris Perez. Guess who Player A is…
I give up. Who is it?
You’re right, Perez could end up as dog-meat. I guess I read your comment as not caring about getting relievers generally. If there are better relievers available, lets get them, by all means.
Player A is Fernando Cabrera. I have no idea what makes a good reliever. I tend to like guys who have at least one really good pitch (R. Perez – slider) vs. those who don’t (J. Lewis). But then you have a guy like Betancourt who was a very good and consistent reliever with one pitch, period, but with good control and deception. Chris Perez seems to have two good pitches, which is very good, but I wonder about his long-term effectiveness given his control issues. My ambivalence about relievers is simply that I have no idea what makes or who will be a good reliever, so it is harder for me to get excited about putting one as the centerpiece of a trade.
As usual, these are excellent points.
Afh4 (Andrew? is it appropriate to refer by first name to someone I don’t know?) had a good point a few months ago, which is at the heart of where I am coming from on the DeRosa trade. He said something to the effect of, there has to be a better answer to the team’s performance than “bullpens—crazy, huh?”
It may be the case that bullpens really are a crapshoot. What the heck do I know? Very little, for sure. But if this is so, then much of the sturm und drang surrounding shapiro, wedge, the flaws in the Front Office’s approach is misplaced. You throw together what you can, and your team will be good or bad basically on the basis of bullpen luck.
Because I want to believe the opposite, I am happy to see Shapiro struggling to find good bullpen talent, despite the fact that this is destined to be a high variance activity under any scenario. I think you actually make a pretty good case for Perez in your post above. He has two good pitches and throws hard. In current form, with his wildness, he seems to be a decent bullpen arm. If a magical future where we have corrected his wildness, he looks awesome.
In sum, I am excited to see Shapiro working hard on a problem that murdered us this year, even if there is a large element of uncertainty.
by gmfrodo on Jun 29, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is pretty much in line with my thinking, too.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 29, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Same here. I mean these PTBNwaaaayL deals are kinda cool, but I’m kind of dumbfounded about how excited people are about getting Chris Perez for Mark DeRosa when we got Crlos Freakin’ Santana for Casey Blake.
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
by Turkmenbashi on Jun 29, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
I suspect also that the caliber of pitching you can steal away in these deals is lower than the caliber of position players, in general. Pitchers are never blocked, for one thing — there’s no such thing as an overabundance.
by Logodaedalus on Jun 29, 2009 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Well if we were in fact looking for an ML arm, there had to be some sort of flaw with the guy in order for us to obtain him
Yeah, right. The ceiling/ML-proximity tradeoff.
by Logodaedalus on Jun 29, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
or, well, not exactly ceiling in this case, since it seems that Perez’s ceiling is pretty high, but he needs to gain control if he’s going to reach it.
by Logodaedalus on Jun 29, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll TAKE him.
Jay was just telling me the other day how much better he’s going to be than Sowers.
Steel Nick
I mean being competitive is kinda cool, but I’m kind of dumbfounded about how excited people are about winning 90 games a couople of time when we went to the playoffs every year in the ’90s.
Your standards are off.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 29, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Wow, that misspelling wasn’t even intentional.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 29, 2009 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Some of those playoff-bound teams from the 90’s really were not very good.
I still think the 2005 Indians, who missed the playoffs, were the best all-around club we’ve had since Belle left in 1996.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Now I think your standards for “not very good” are off. But the pitching on some of those latter teams does make one shudder.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 29, 2009 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Leads me to think the mystery man might raise some eyebrows.
by fleerdon on Jun 29, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I bet he means Perez right.
I think the Giants Brian Wilson is a good comp to Chris Perez. Wilson has battled control issues off and on his whole career. He has learned the art of being effectively wild. Maybe Perez does the same.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Does Wilson have a fastball even approaching that of Perez’s?
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 29, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually Wilson’s may be better. His is a tick over 96 mph this year. (96.3)
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
I stand corrected, then.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 29, 2009 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
The sector where the three circles intersect is where this year’s effective bullpen pitchers for the Tribe are located.
by peter m on Jun 29, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
We just need to do our bullpen shopping at Excluded Middle Mart
by Logodaedalus on Jun 29, 2009 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Why do you know this?
Proud Fan of the Worst Baseball Team I've Ever Seen
by westbrook on Jun 29, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What is it about a good Venn diagram that just makes the rec finger dance?
by Logodaedalus on Jun 29, 2009 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
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