Game 77: Reds 8, Indians 1
by Ryan on Jun 28, 2009 5:34 PM EDT
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After taking steps forward pretty much from his big league debut, today was a big step backwards for David Huff. And despite having Asdrubal Cabrera back in the lineup, the Indians offense was held in check by Reds starter Micah Owings.
Since Grady Sizemore first went on the Disabled List, Ben Francisco has gotten regular playing time, whether in center field, or when Trevor Crowe was in center, in left field. Now that Sizemore's back, he's been given a bit a reprieve with the trade of Mark DeRosa. But you'd have to think that Matt LaPorta (hitting .301/.370/.522 in AAA) will be coming up shortly to play every day, because Francisco is hitting .138/.213/.175 in June, and is dragging down the bottom of the order.
| Highest WPA | Lowest WPA | ||
| Grady Sizemore | .091 | David Huff | -.357 |
| Ryan Garko | .073 | Luis Valbuena | -.081 |
| Joe Smith | .001 | Shin-Soo Choo | -.078 |
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That was closed by the time I got here. I didn’t do it.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
I’ve been hinting lately that they need to find a convenient time to send Valbuena down for a couple weeks (or months?) for service time reasons. He’s 1-for-22 since we left Chicago, no walks, and with Asdrubal back on the roster, this would seem to be an opportune time to do it.
LaPorta’s service time concerns are history now; a straight swap would make a lot of sense at this point.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Not months, please. AAA pitching is not major league pitching, and I’d rather he take his lumps up here now so the Indians put the best team on the field they can beginning on Opening Day.
That said, three weeks or so to let the closest clock roll over? Yeah, go for it.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 28, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Two weeks to push back his walk year from 2014 to 2015.
Two months to push back his arbitration from 2012 to 2013.
Arguably, the second one is more important, but he could make it hard to keep him in the minors credibly for two months.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
I am with this. Send him down for two weeks and see if he can MAKE them call him back up before two months is up. If he can’t, we win on both ends, and if he can then there’s no point in keeping him there just to pound around AAA.
Shin-Soo Choo, future U.S. Citizen.
Would he have any recourse if the team kept him in the minors even if he was tearing it up? Shouldn’t control of contracts be part of club’s prerogative?
Il faut d'abord durer.
He would not have any real recourse.
I actually think we ought to give Barfield one last shot to see if he can do anything. Who knows, maybe he can — and maybe we can even trade him.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
HE’S HITTING .600, HE SHOULD BE PLAYING EVERY DAY ANYWAY!
Proud Fan of the Worst Baseball Team I've Ever Seen
Him and Francisco please. Now.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jun 29, 2009 5:17 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Would he have any recourse if the team kept him in the minors even if he was tearing it up? Shouldn’t control of contracts be part of club’s prerogative?
No, but according to random blogger Murray Chass it undermines the intergrity of the game.
Can you convince me that:
(a) LaPorta and Valbuena playing every day in the majors right now doesn’t put them in better position to produce in April 2010, or
(b) That the couple million a year in additional payroll overrides this?
At some point, it would be nice if they put the best team on the field, based on the assets available in the system. I’m well aware that the LaPorta/Francisco/Dellucci crap didn’t make that much of a difference in the standings, but there are a lot of things not working right now, and maybe playing your second-best players because of future arbitration costs is one of the strategies that needs to be reevaluated.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 28, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions
This is no longer an issue for LaPorta, but in any event, he entered the season with much less experience (zero in fact) in Triple-A and the majors than Valbuena, so they weren’t necessarily on the same track to begin with.
As for Valbuena, I’m no fan of batting average, but will you really tell me we need to fret over “setting back” a player who is barely hitting .200 so far? The walk-year setback is a no-brainer. Hell, you could send him down on July 2 and recall him on July 16, and he’d only “miss out” on nine games.
I can’t tell you what’s best for his 2010 readiness, but there’s an argument he’s overmatched right now. I honestly don’t know how much his 2010 readiness really has to do with where he spends his July/August 2009, but I suspect it isn’t really all that much. Some guys are going to adjust to the majors and make it there … and some guys aren’t.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
To be clear, I’m not disputing the two weeks/walk year tradeoff. The cost/benefit analysis there is clear even to me.
I’d dispute that he’s overmatched—not to get too much into Wedgespeak, but he has been consistently putting up good at-bats; last weekend, it paid off handsomely. Then he cooled off. I’m not sure it’s anything more than that. All that said, hey, I do see developmental value in sending him down with the idea of forcing him to hit his way back up. But LaPorta’s been doing that in June, and they stuck to their guns. Why would it be any different with Valbuena?
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 29, 2009 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions
What gets lost in these discussions is grey areas. There are plenty of times when there isn’t an obvious answer as to at which level a prospect should be developing his skills at the moment, and service time really only comes into play in those grey areas. I could make an argument for starting LaPorta in the majors this year, or I could make one for keeping him down until next July. Within those wide subjective zones, why not apply some fiscal common sense?
I love Valbuena, I think he’s our long-term second baseman. But if I’m going to be objective, he can hit the ball hard but has only one good weekend to show for a month of PA. Again, I could argue for what-the-heck, let’s just let him keep hacking at it up here, or I could argue something far less forgiving. Within that subjectivity … you see my point?
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Within that subjectivity … you see my point?
I do. Of course, a proper evaluation of how gray (um, Mario?) the areas are to begin with is incomplete without the input from the player development staff. But I don’t pretend to be one; I can barely do a credible impersonation.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 29, 2009 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t watch this game, but I just thought I’d note these plays out of the game log:
Bruce doubled to deep left center.
Dickerson singled to left.
Hernandez tripled to deep left center, Votto and Phillips scored.
Janish flied out to left.
Dickerson flied out to left.
Hairston flied out to left.
Votto safe at second on error by left fielder.
Hernandez doubled to left.
Taveras doubled to left.
Hernandez singled to left, Phillips scored.
Hairston singled to left center, Taveras to second.
Bruce flied out to left.
That’s 12 balls hit to LF or left-center:
4 flyouts
3 singles
3 doubles
1 triple
1 two-base error
I could be wrong, but I don’t think it’s normal for a team to get 14 total bases (and only four outs) by hitting the ball to left field 12 times.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 28, 2009 8:04 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
For comparison …
Votto singled to right.
Phillips flied out to right.
Phillips singled to right, Dickerson and Taveras scored, Votto to third.
Gomes flied out to right.
Bruce flied out to deep right.
Phillips flied out to right.
Hernandez flied out to right.
That’s 7 balls in play to RF or right-center:
5 flyouts
2 singles
0 extra-base hits
0 reached on error
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Although the reaction to this post mostly has to do with our LF defense, it seems like where balls are put in play is on the pitcher’s location (or maybe whoever is calling the pitches). Was that your point? Cuz then I thought you were trying to say they were pulling the hell out of the ball on Huff, but then saw that several of these guys are lefty batters. Anyway, what is your point, or is it just an observation of an odd statistical happenstance.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Jun 29, 2009 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
My point is that for any number of possible reasons, it was dumb to put Garko in left.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 29, 2009 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Maybe they’re showcasing his defense for the Mets……
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Jun 29, 2009 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Garko has sort of drowsily worked his OPS up to 775 (per Baseball Reference, probably doesn’t include today’s game)…. wonder if we could toss him to some desperate NL club before the deadline.
I sure as hell don’t want to pay him arbitration next year (considering we have… what, Smith, Sowers, R. Perez, and Shoppach’s 2nd year to concern ourselves with).
.788 including today’s game
I said this before, but any team looking at Aubrey Huff for OF/1B would be stupid to not look at Garko who has a higher OBP, BB%, and wOBA for like 8 million less.
I guess if you’re looking for a bat with some pop Huff has the advantage (.430 SLG vs .456) but still…$8 MILLION for Huff (before prorating)
Garko is also signed through this season whereas Huff is a free agent
by world dictator on Jun 28, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
How much is Garko going to make in Arb? I doubt it’ll be more than his $2 million win value projected in dollars.
by world dictator on Jun 29, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but another issue is whether we can do better with his playing time.
Broussard got $2.5 million in his first year, after putting up a 770 OPS the year before. Full-time players are paid pretty well, that’s the standard. I for one do not want to pay Garko anything like $3 million, but that’s more because I want to see an improvement out of his share of the PA.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
My point was that even in arb Garko would still be a relative bargain to the team we traded him to.
by world dictator on Jun 29, 2009 6:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Several reasonably smart people have suggested that the Mets have a use for Garko. I don’t know the details behind that assertion, but they say it.
Hard to believe we can’t get something good for Shoppach, not that I’m rooting for that to happen.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
You think we could still get something reasonable for Shop even though his value might be at its lowest currently(or does it just feel like its at its lowest)?
Shin-Soo Choo, future U.S. Citizen.
I think his bad defense lately, if only perceptually, has hurt his stock more than his bat.
by world dictator on Jun 29, 2009 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions
That’s fair. I’m just kind of curious to see what people think we could still get for him, because I would be all for trading him. He’s a nice guy, plays hard, nothing really against him, I just think we shouldn’t be so stuck on him if someone is willing to fork something decent over.
Shin-Soo Choo, future U.S. Citizen.
Who are these reasonably smart people?
Seriously, I’d like to hear what they have to say. (The Ryan Garko express can be very lonely sometimes…that and it takes forever to get anywhere)
by world dictator on Jun 29, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
How long has BP had a feature on ESPN Insider?! ALMOST makes me want to pay for…..nah, never mind.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Jun 29, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Do they have anybody better than Joe Smith?
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Jun 29, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=gee—-001dil
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=niese-001jon
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=switze001jon
I just glanced at Buffalo’s roster. The last guy is the only one being used as a reliever.
Steel Nick
Someone’s gotta still have the keys to Buffalo… Can’t they just sneak in and steal these guys?
by Logodaedalus on Jun 29, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Can we give Andy Marte a serious look?
There, I said it.
by world dictator on Jun 29, 2009 12:51 AM EDT reply actions
Peripherals are terrible. Strictly by the numbers, he doesn’t look like he can hit in the majors.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
I would also argue that he didn’t look like he could, visually, while he was up here.
Shin-Soo Choo, future U.S. Citizen.
Yeah, you and all the other experts who saw him bat three times after 10 days of inactivity.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 29, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Unrelated, but the rookie who won for SF today looks like a high school sophomore.
Proud Fan of the Worst Baseball Team I've Ever Seen
There aren’t any high schools in Hobbiton.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 29, 2009 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions
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