Game 56: Twins 11, Indians 3

by Ryan on Jun 4, 2009 7:04 PM EDT in Game Recaps Comment 43 comments

Fausto Carmona isn't a viable major-league starter right now; he needs to rebuild his confidence and his mechanics in Columbus.

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The time has come for Fausto Carmona to go to the minors. There isn't much to replace him, but at this point "not much" is better than "no chance," for that is the odds of the Indians winning a Carmona start. Today the Indians faced Scott Baker, a talented but struggling pitcher, and even with the Indians' emasculated lineup, had a good chance of winning the game had the game been in doubt. But since Carmona handed Baker an early 7-0 lead, there were no difficulties for the Twins starter to overcome, and nothing to worry about.

As much as it pains me to say this, having Tomo Ohka make a month's worth of starts is a better option for the team's short-term prospects and Fausto Carmona's long-term prospects. If this season is a lost cause (and it's looking like it with every passing day), then keeping him at the major-league level is even more of a waste. And let's face it, pretty much every scenario that had the Indians being a relevant team this year included Fausto Carmona having at least a good year. Losing CC Sabathia and Paul Byrd to free agency and Jake Westbrook to injury meant that the margin for error in the rotation, as deep as the rotation appeared to be, was nil. And although the bullpen derailed the first month of the season, fixing it won't turn the season around as long as the Indians have a rotation two pitchers deep. Cleveland might be "just" 7.5 games back, with no team in the Central running away with the division, but the pitching talent just isn't there to propel even an illusory turnaround. It might be July until help arrives in the rotation, and by that time it will have been much too late to salvage anything from this season. Carmona was the key to the rotation, and he's been one of the worst starting pitchers in baseball through the first two months.

Next Up: Pavano vs. Danks, 8:11 PM

290604109_indians_twins_129929475_lbig_medium

via www.fangraphs.com

Highest WPA		Lowest WPA
Luis Valbuena	.010	Fausto Carmona	-.374
		Ben Francisco	-.039
		Jhonny Peralta	-.029

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Comments

Wow. What happened to Fausto Carmona?

Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 4, 2009 7:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

John Perrotto on BaseballProspectus had his mid week column that has quotes from MLB scouts. On Fausto this week the scout’s opinion is that the Indians need to send him down, make him earn his way back, get his mechanics back and he “really needs to get in shape”.

I agree he needs to go down now.

by IndyDave on Jun 4, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe Ohka can go 3-1 with a 3.75 ERA in 5 or so starts and we can trade him to the Yankees in July.

FE WEE

by westbrook on Jun 4, 2009 7:39 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs

rec

by APV on Jun 4, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ohka’s doing a great job in long relief. Let’s keep him where he is. When we send Fausto down, let’s have a look at Hector Rondon.

by ken from alexandria on Jun 4, 2009 7:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

With all due respect, I’d like to see what Rondon can do it AAA for at least a month before we think about that. No reason to stunt the growth of a prospect for the sake of it.

"I gotta be honest, I dunno much about the climate in Japan." - Matt Underwood

by USSChoo on Jun 4, 2009 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed. I’d rather not a rush a kid up here and possibly ruin him for the long run in a season that is slowly getting tougher and tougher to salvage.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Jun 4, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely agree.

Rondon got lit up tonight in Akron … and actually has regressed from his great start since the bullpen incident.

Of course, it’s also normal regression as well.

Also, while I’m not a big service time wonk … I see no reason to start his if this season is lost.

by FallsTribeFan on Jun 4, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rondon is hurt. Just saw APV’s fanshot.

by jayme on Jun 4, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

See

Even talking about pitching in Cleveland will get you hurt

by world dictator on Jun 4, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In all seriousness though, if the same thing had happened to him after a callup in Cleveland, every board, including this one, would have lit up with the notion that we “ruined” him.

by dgcambridge on Jun 5, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That might happen anyway—— that bullpen move looks pretty stupid right now.

by Ryan Kelsey on Jun 5, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

by NickFantana on Jun 5, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not a fan of this line of thinking, but I guess I’ve made that clear.

by dgcambridge on Jun 5, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought it was stupid from the beginning. Does that change things?

by NickFantana on Jun 5, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s more likely to have association with the ongoing development of his breaking pitches. It could also have nothing to do with anything.

by jhon on Jun 6, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Eh, TINSTAAPP

Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 4, 2009 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you really concerned about Ohka’s development?

by world dictator on Jun 4, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

When do we sign Pedro?

Case of the beet bandit. Missing beets from all over the farm, no footprints. Inside job. Mose in socks. Boom. Case closed. -Dwight Schrute

by mjschaefer on Jun 4, 2009 8:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Down the stretch run when we’re contending in 2011

Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 4, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

or Glavine

by world dictator on Jun 4, 2009 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I fear most of this is in his head … and that might be a tough recovery.

by FallsTribeFan on Jun 4, 2009 9:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I really hope you aren’t right.. but I agree with you.

"I gotta be honest, I dunno much about the climate in Japan." - Matt Underwood

by USSChoo on Jun 4, 2009 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s just a feeling I have … Fausto seems to be an emotional pitcher … and his emotions get the best of him … which leads to his body getting out of whack.

I think that’s why Vic catches him … to be both taskmaster … and hypnotist.

Either way, they need to figure out a way to get him right … or else he’s Daniel Cabrera 2.0.

by FallsTribeFan on Jun 4, 2009 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Glavine. Let him eat innings. If he can. With the Braves picking up tab, why not give him a shot?

I just wanted to believe.

by mjmarble on Jun 4, 2009 9:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If I’m Glavine … the question for me is this.

I want to pitch. I’m a HOF’er.

Do I want to ride out (possibly) the last year of my career eating innings and serving as a pseudo-coach for a last place team?

Nope. I want one last shot at a ring … time to find a contender with some starting pitching holes (if there is such a thing) … and go there.

If I’m thinking of pitching in 2010 … then yes, going to Cleveland makes sense if I’m trying to re-establish my worth.

by FallsTribeFan on Jun 4, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with all of this.

You figure he’d like to stay in the NL to a) avoid the DH and b) glare at Wade after a big game, right?

by JulioBernazard on Jun 4, 2009 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I feel I have seen enough of Fausto for this year.

by jayme on Jun 4, 2009 10:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Oddly enough, Baseball Reference lists Scott Baker as the second most similar pitcher to Carmona — after, of all people, Marty Bystrom. The list is not impressive and underlines how he’s deteriorated from a major talent to an enigma to a problem. He shows no signs of improving at the major league level. I agree he needs to be sent to AAA. How long until Laffey or Westbrook is ready to start games?

by peter m on Jun 4, 2009 10:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Bring up Saarloos.

-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jun 4, 2009 10:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

We need a 5th starter only 3 times between now and the All-Star break because of 5 off days. Even after the All-Star break, there are quite a few off days.

Dependin on how Huff, Sowers, and Ohka are doing, there will be opportunities to skip their starts until Westbrook comes back.

by palcal on Jun 4, 2009 11:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

With the speculation that Hafner will be added to the roster Friday, it may be Carmona that makes room for him — given that the roster is already pitcher-heavy at 13.

by palcal on Jun 4, 2009 11:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

So…about the most recent long-term contracts we’ve doled out….

by supermarioelia on Jun 4, 2009 11:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Westbrook – injury
Clifton – genius
Victor – genius
Grady – hard to imagine it as something other than great
Hafner – well..injury…and…
DeRo – too early…
Wood – too early…
Peralta – maybe not genius, but certainly not bad
Betancourt – not bad, really
Fausto – I have a hard time condemning any contract that includes 3 (!) club options

by APV on Jun 4, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well I can narrow down my complaints to 3+ year deals signed after the 2007 season. That leaves us with Westbrook, Hafner, Wood and Fausto. I like all of the deals signed prior to that. The counter-argument of course is that I have to be patient and let the length of the contract take its course before judging.

by supermarioelia on Jun 5, 2009 7:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs