Hafner activated, Carmona sent WAY down
As Castrovince notes, this drastic step has been taken several times before by other clubs, but I for one did not see Fausto going all the way down to rookie ball.
almost 3 years ago
jhonnylhover48
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Wow! Who works with the pitchers down there? I’m thinking they believe he has mechanical issues that need to be addressed and that they need to start from scratch — get him sorted out mechanically before he faces anything resembling a professional hitter.
That’s what I would guess, too, but I have nothing to back that up.
I wonder how this will affect him mentally; he’s always struck me (maybe just because of the media’s portrayal) that he’s a bit of a headcase.
Il faut d'abord durer.
Tough to say, isn’t it? He was supporting multiple family members when he was 20. When I was 20, I dressed myself from whichever clothes I stepped on first.
by fleerdon on Jun 5, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
i have the same “headcase” feel about him…but his rebound from the disastrous closing in ‘06 to dominant starter in ’07 was pretty remarkable. i don’t know if that meant he’s got mad intestinal fortitude or just a manny-like ability to not pay attention to anything at all.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jun 5, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
that’s not change i can believe in.
by emil minty on Jun 5, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
No problem, it was just that one FanShot or another was going to be center-page announcing this news. I figured, better to edit your headline than to do a new FanShot.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 5, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
This is so Hundred Years of Solitude. An entire generation of bad luck is being revisited in its entirely upon this one season. If a pitcher gets shot through a go-go boot, I’m fleeing the country.
by fleerdon on Jun 5, 2009 1:49 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
We may need to call it a Millenium of Solitude. The worse part of this whole thing is we don’t even have anyone to wear go-go boots right now.
I suppose this makes sense. Home plate is the same size in rookie league as it is in AAA. So why take innings away from the Columbus pitchers for a guy who can’t throw a strike.
I think it’s about getting him away from the spotlight.
Fact is, Fausto is a major celebrity in Akron and Lake County, and they don’t want people packing the house specifically because he’s pitching. So they can either send him to Kinston or to their new facility in Arizona.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 5, 2009 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I doubt very much it has anything to do with that.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 5, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess they just want to take him out of game situations, period
by APV on Jun 5, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm, I’m starting to lose hope for this season.
by cleveland teamer on Jun 5, 2009 2:18 PM EDT reply actions
So, for the offense, here’s a question. What would be a better everyday setup, including defense:
3b – Carroll
OF – Choo, Frisco, DeRosa
or
3b – DeRosa
OF – Choo, Crowe, Frisco?
one thing to keep in mind is that, as it is currently constructed, we are decidedly NOT a groundball heavy pitching staff. With that in mind, I’ll go with option B.
by APV on Jun 5, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Looks like Steve Lyons is the pitching coach for the AZL Indians
http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?t=t_ros&cid=1231
Here’s his profile, in short, he is a former outfielder and third baseman, and his nickname is “Psycho”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Lyons_(baseball)
Great.
Hmmmm…BRef lists another Steve Lyons (DOB 5-18-1971) as a picthing coach in our system; however, the AZL Indians’ website lists the AZL Indians’ pitching coach as having a DOB of 6-3-60, which would seem to indicate that the “Psycho” Steve Lyons is in fact is the pitching coach of the AZL Indians.
My guess is that’s it’s an error on the AZL Indians behalf, and taht the non-Psycho is actually the AZL Indians pitching coach.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Steve_Lyons_(minors)
by millionairesrow on Jun 5, 2009 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Psycho is the road game color commentator for Dodgers games and co-hosts the postgame show with Kevin Kennedy.
And is still hiding his wallet.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 5, 2009 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Former big-league infielder Ted Kubiak is the manager of the Tribe’s rookie league team in Goodyear, Ariz. Jeff Harris, former big-league pitcher, is the pitching coach.
Fausto is going to fall in love with how hard a worker his new pitching coach is.
per Castro
Pitching coordinators Dave Miller and Steve Lyons and mental skills coordinator Julio Rangel will work with Carmona.
these will be 3 busy guys
mental skillsget your head outta your ass coordinator Julio Rangel
"I gotta be honest, I dunno much about the climate in Japan." - Matt Underwood
I’m just relieved for Fausto. He’s been a basketcase. He needs to be able to take a deep breath, hit the reset button, and get his control back – out of the spotlight.
He’ll be back. He’s a tough guy. Remember 2007. Everybody said his fragile psyche had been damaged by his debacle as a closer.
Not everybody.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 5, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
He’ll be back.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 5, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m unequivocal on this.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 6, 2009 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions
let’s not forget pump the brakes, take a step back, sit a few plays out, chillax, etc. he can do those too.
This news actually makes me relieved. I was starting to fear that they were just going to keep throwing him out there to start and then DFA him after more suckage.
I don’t know why I thought that.
I believe in Carl Pavano.
Highly unlikely he’d be DFA’ed, with $12 million left in guaranteed salary and 5.5 years left under club control.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 5, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
With all the off days coming up and Westbrook on the horizon, Ohka won’t get many starts unless he
bumps Sowers and/or Huff.
So did Carmona have to agree to be sent down? Does his contract affect the way the team had to transact the “demotion”, or is this always based solely upon service time?
I’m just curious as to the technicalities of the transactions.
They tricked him. They told him after the game that Luis Isaacs was in a van out back with some new shoes for Fausto. When Fausto went outside they shot him with a dart gun and restrained him in a nylon net. Then they lifted him into the back of the van and raced off for Hopkins. They’ll keep him under sedation for the trip, and when he wakes up they’ll tell him he’s in Columbus. He’s most likely never been to Columbus before, so it probably will work. It will be a while before the Players Association can do anything about it.
by odradek on Jun 6, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Gatekeeper!
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Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 6, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It actually had no contractual effect at all.
He had an option remaining — he actually had been optioned down in 2005, 2006, and 2007, but he spent less than 20 days in the minors in 2007, so that option year didn’t count. However, because it had been more than a year since his big-league debut, he had to clear revocable waivers first. These are the same type of waivers players are put on in August prior to a trade; if a player is claimed, he can be pulled back. It is really just a dick move to put in a claim in this situation, since nobody really wants the player, and everyone understands that it hurts the player not to be demoted at some point.
Fausto’s salary is guarnateed for 2009, 2010 and 2011, and this doesn’t change that. The Indians can decline his option for 2012 and still send him to arbitration, but that was always the case. No matter what happens this year, he’ll be free agent after 2012. The only thing that could prevent that would be if, in a future year, he actually cleared outright waivers and was sent to the minors, spent most of the year there, and then was added back to the 40-man at the end of the season. All that is quite unlikely to transpire.
So anyway … no, there basically are no contractual ramifications to the move at all.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 6, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
don’t forget the Indians have 3 club options on Carmona, 2012, 2013 and 2014. So if he were to become good again, the Indians could theoretically have him through 2014 under the terms of his current contract
by APV on Jun 8, 2009 5:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but I believe if they decline the 2012 option and keep him anyway, they lose the 2013 and 2014 options.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 8, 2009 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe a stupid question, but how can yu decline an option then keep the guy?
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
Because once the option is declined at the set salary, he’s still a guy with less than six years of service time. So the team has the right to tender him a contract, and he doesn’t have the right to refuse, and the salary issues goes to arbitration.
The only reason a team would do this is if (a) they believed the player would get significantly less in arbitration (which would require a rare combination of events leading up to that point), or (b) they wanted the right to cut him at some point prior to the end of spring training without being on the hook for his whole salary.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 8, 2009 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn’t they still be on the hook for 80% of the salary for the previous season (2011 in this case)?
If this is so and he’s worth keeping, might as well pay 100% and keep the options.
If I had checked a source beforehand, I could have written that more confidently.
First I’ve heard of those additional intricacies within the rule.
By that I mean, on the hook for 80% if offered a contract by the Indians; free agent if not, obviously.
No. The 80% max-cut rule only governs what the amount of the arbitrated salary will be (at minimum). No salary determined in arbitration is wholly guaranteed.
If a player with an arbitrated salary is cut more than 15 days before the start of the season, the club owes only 30 days of his salary (essentially one-sixth). If he’s cut within the last 15 days before the start of the season, the club owes only 45 days of his salary (essentially 25%). If he makes the Opening Day roster, the full salary is guaranteed. This generally applies to situations where the player is eligible for arbitration but the team and player agree on a salary before the arbitration hearing is actually held.
Occasionally, a team will cut a player near the end of spring training, and the union will squawk a grievance, claiming that the team was only doing it to save money, not because the player failed to “make the club” based on performance. I don’t know if the team really is required to judge such players purely on their performance, however, or if the union has ever prevailed in a situation like that.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
That’s interesting. This detailed contract stuff is something of a new frontier for me, but it’s the next place I’m going as I try to enhance my understanding of the game.
The non-guaranteed arbitration salary is slightly obscure. It comes up slightly less often than the fourth option year.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Gotcha, thanks
Ride on ye fearsome Horsemen of the Basketball Apocalypse. We got this.
by Turkmenbashi on Jun 8, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions
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