Game 58: White Sox 4, Indians 2

by Ryan on Jun 6, 2009 7:06 PM EDT in Game Recaps

So the Indians got a surprisingly good start from Jeremy Sowers, and what did they do with it? Not much. They closest they got to having a big inning was Travis Hafner just missing hitting a Gavin Floyd pitch square with the bases loaded in the sixth inning. Floyd, who's been pitching much better since an awful April, went 6.2 innings, and though the Indians scored one of the runners left on base when he left, they didn't score again.

Fielding and base running errors cost the Indians two runs today, which was the difference in the game. In the second, Travis Hafner got a terrible jump on a Ryan Garko grounder and was thrown out at home. And in the sixth, a Jhonny Peralta throwing error and a Victor Martinez passed ball allowed home a White Sox run. The Indians have to take advantage of good starting pitching when they get it, but they didn't today. Which means the Indians are one loss closer to pulling out of contention.

I wouldn't be shocked if the Indians send Luis Valbuena down in favor of Matt LaPorta, especially now that Josh Barfield is back with the club.

Next Up: Huff vs. Colón, 2:05 PM

290606104_indians_whitesox_130161647_lbig_medium

via www.fangraphs.com

Highest WPA		Lowest WPA
Jamey Carroll	.137	Shin-Soo Choo	-.153
Mark DeRosa	.086	Trevor Crowe	-.142
Jhonny Peralta	.020	Luis Valbuena	-.117

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Yeah, at this point, all Valbuena is doing is accumulating service time… he’s not contributing anything, final awful strike 3 call not withstanding.

Might as well have Derosa/Barfield/Carroll/Peralta handle 3B/SS/2B

by cheech99 on Jun 6, 2009 7:17 PM EDT reply actions

So, for someone who wasn’t able to watch the game, what were the two starters throwing to get those swinging strikes? And Sowers looked pretty good?

by TribeJay on Jun 6, 2009 7:29 PM EDT reply actions

Floyd had his filthy breaking stuff working today.

And Ryan, IDK how you can write a wrap of today’s game without mentioning the HP ump.

FE WEE

by westbrook on Jun 6, 2009 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Sowers caught the White Sox at the right time, meaning they’re really struggling right now no matter who is the opposing pitcher.

Also, a lot of swing and misses due to HP umpire’s strike zone, which I think is the widest and largest I’ve seen for some time. Pitches low and sometimes in the dirt are called strikes and pitches in the opposite batter’s box are called strikes.

by jayme on Jun 6, 2009 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions

But Sowers also went 5 scoreless against the Rays and the Yankees. He’s obviously made some kind of adjustment since getting called up again.

-Kyle

by Kyle Garret on Jun 6, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions

If the Indians are not going to give Andy Marte a chance this season, what about Jordan Brown deserving one?

by LAIndianfan on Jun 6, 2009 7:37 PM EDT reply actions

I’m in favor of having Jordan Brown deserve one. Let me know when it happens.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on Jun 6, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs

what do you think he’d have to do to deserve one?

by world dictator on Jun 6, 2009 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, he could get younger and have defensive value.

More realistically, he could have a non-terrible walk rate.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on Jun 6, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions

he has a .397 wOBA. Seems like he gets on base at a pretty good clip to me.

with a .917 OPS and .397 wOBA I’d think that he would at least have a bit of trade value to an NL team

by world dictator on Jun 6, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Well, then, let’s trade him to an NL team.

I have no complaint with his OBP, but despite his obvious bat-to-ball ability, a hitter who is that unselective is pretty much a lock to get eaten alive by big-league pitching. It’s one thing to be getting away with that in Kinston at age 20, but by age 25 in Columbus, it’s no good.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on Jun 7, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions

I’d rather have LaPorta stay down until his clock turns over, especially if the goal is just to tread water until the end of June. I’m not as worried about Valbuena’s service time—I see him more as a complementary piece than a core contributor. The better question is whether Carroll’s a better short-term option at 2B.

Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile

by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 6, 2009 7:45 PM EDT reply actions

I really think you’re selling Valbuena short. And they really need to get him at least a couple of weeks in the minors for his clock, it’s ridiculously near sacrificing an entire year of club control.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on Jun 6, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I agree about Valbuena, I see him as a viable starting second baseman as soon as next year. No one should expect him to be the next Asdrubal, but he can be less than that and still be very valuable

by Roger Dorn on Jun 6, 2009 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions

Completely disagree with the criticism of Hafner. I thought he played that grounder quite well.

by supermarioelia on Jun 6, 2009 7:54 PM EDT reply actions

Yeah, Ramirez made a great play. Nothing much Hafner could have done, aside from maybe trying harder to avoid the tag.

by jakesinger777 on Jun 7, 2009 3:41 AM EDT up reply actions

7 innings, 5 H, 0 R/ER, 0 BB, 3 K for Lofgren in Columbus today.

by JRontherim on Jun 6, 2009 10:45 PM EDT reply actions

This I can’t wrap my head around.

by supermarioelia on Jun 6, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions

PTM baby.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on Jun 6, 2009 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions

See ya in September

by world dictator on Jun 6, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions

Strike??

FE WEE

by westbrook on Jun 7, 2009 1:34 AM EDT reply actions

This score was such a punch in the gut when I saw the ticker scroll by. I feel like it was a pretty crucial game for us to win.

by Toxicadam on Jun 7, 2009 2:59 AM EDT reply actions

I thought the game revealed several of the reasons the Indians are not a winning team at this point. Over the course of the first part of the season, the pitching has been the main problem, but when they get into winnable games and get decent pitching (as they did yesterday), they’re undone by the “little things”: inability to score runners in scoring position (Valbuena, after DeRosa’s hit, Hafner flies out with the bases loaded, Martinez strikes out with guys in scoring position, etc.), by weak fielding (Peralta’s error, Perez gets his feet tangled up, Martinez/Sowers get crossed up, even De Rosa’s poor play on a foul ball in right — although that one didn’t matter), and too many base clogging runners (Hafner, Garko, Shoppach, Martinez, etc.).

If they had great pitching and/or were the 95 Indians and could club you to death, these things would be less important. But, they don’t. So they do.

by peter m on Jun 7, 2009 12:47 PM EDT reply actions

Weren’t they two for seven with RISP? That’s .286, perfectly respectable. And I’d rather have base-clogging runners than none at all. If nothing else, they force the opposing pitcher to throw more. The weak fielding in an of itself was probably not the difference in the game. It was, to me, simply a confluence of things. Any one of these issues in isolation was not a big deal. But put together under a dark cloud, and that’s the ball game. If the Indians had Matt Thornton, the fourth run probably doesn’t score. If bullpens are such volatile things, why does Matt Thornton look good year after year?

by odradek on Jun 7, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions

You know something, they actually did not get done in by “the little things” yesterday. That was Castro’s angle, too, and it’s just flat-out wrong. They got done in by a failure to score more than two runs, period. The little things would not have mattered had they done a decent job of hitting.

Club OPS yesterday was 464, and their Runs Created (simple form, without RISP) was 1.83. So there was no particular problem with situational execution, they just hit badly for the day.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on Jun 7, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions

I’ll take the point about situational hitting, but I still think poor fielding hurt (certainly one, possibly two runs that weren’t “earned” by something the Sox did) and has been one of the team’s weaknesses all season. Maybe not THE reason they lost, but a contributing factor.

Anyway, my point wasn’t that these were the reasons they lost by themselves. Rather, that these struck me as team weaknesses and were on display yesterday. And, again, I’ll acknowledge that the situational hitting wasn’t the issue (still drives me crazy to see strikeouts with runners in scoring position though!).

by peter m on Jun 7, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions

I think our fielding cost us 1 run. That passed ball would not have scored a run had Peralta not gotten lazy and erratic in the same inning.

FE WEE

by westbrook on Jun 7, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions

I’m like the Jhonny Peralta Defense Council. The run wouldn’t have scored without the passed ball.

by odradek on Jun 7, 2009 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree. The bottom line is that once in a while there’s a passed ball, and once in a while Jhonny makes a mistake. Those are two fairly rare occurrences, not real team weaknesses, but they happened back-to-back, and a run scored.

Anyway, we lost by two runs.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on Jun 7, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions

In fairness, Floyd was filthy in innings 3, 4, 5 and 6. The problem was not scoring more runs in the second and that stupid, stupid ninth inning… done in by Crowe (who could have been PH for) and that damn umpire.

FE WEE

by westbrook on Jun 7, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions

Another inconceivable Wedge 3000 dilemma with Crowe: if he pinch hits and the Tribe ties, who plays the outfield? Francisco could move back to center, and this is where Wedge’s gears start grinding. It’s too damn reckless to pinch hit for Crowe because then what would happen in extras?

by odradek on Jun 7, 2009 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Giminez.

FE WEE

by westbrook on Jun 7, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Maybe the Wedge 3000 doesn’t have the Giminez update installed yet.

by odradek on Jun 7, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Since you’re about to lose anyway, who cares about extras? Is that what you’re saying?

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on Jun 7, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions

Yeah. Like it’s just too damn complicated, so why bother? Just let Trevor hit and maybe he runs into one.

by odradek on Jun 7, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions

I take the opposite view. Do your very best to take the lead first, figure out which off-day starting pitcher is going to play LF after that.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on Jun 7, 2009 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions

I agree with you. Take the lead and figure out how to deal with it then. I think Wedge cannot compute such situations, so he just lets them ride.

by odradek on Jun 7, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions

This is kind of like the inappropriate closer-saving that Torre used to do.

Step 1, take the lead.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on Jun 7, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions

When you’re a brilliant manager like Wedge you think three innings ahead. Tie the game, and you have Cliff Lee in left, and Lee runs into the wall and hurts himself. Are you going to want to face down Hoynes and Ocker after you’ve made that call? You’re better off letting Corvus ground into a DP.

by odradek on Jun 7, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions

I don’t even have any idea what the bench situation was anymore, but Lee obviously is the last guy going out to left. Every infielder would have to be unavailable before a pitcher was even considered. After that, the first guy you’d consider would be the reliever who was being removed from the game anyway — he’s already in there, what the hell, maybe you’ll switch back later. After that, some reliever who pitched an inning or two yesterday. After that, Jeremy Sowers — assuming he has a good enough arm to play left.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on Jun 7, 2009 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions

I’m agreeing with you. I just think Wedge considered the possibility of pinch-hitting for Crowe to be too radical.

I once saw an extra-inning Mets game where they pulled a reliever to bring in a lefty. They moved the reliever to left field, where he played for one batter without a play. When the next batter came up, they moved the lefty reliever out to right field and brought the reliever back in to face a righthanded hitter. It worked. The cool thing was playing the pitcher in the opposite outfield, and moving your good outfielder to the likeliest field.

Sowers was out of the game, right? He couldn’t be in the outfield.

by odradek on Jun 8, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions