2009 MLB Draft: Day One (Rounds 1-3)
by Ryan on Jun 9, 2009 5:31 PM EDT
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PrintSome interesting links from around the Web about today's MLB First-Year Player Draft (6:00 PM, MLB Network):
Draft Preview: Lottery a Tribe emphasis | indians.com: News
"The focus is always on that first-round pick, and that's usually where your impact players come from. There's always pressure, every year, with every first-round pick we take. But picking in the top half, we certainly feel even more pressure to make sure we're successful with that selection." -- scouting director Brad Grant, on the Indians' spot at No. 15.
Crystal ball: Plenty of Draft questions left | MLB.com: News (First Round Projection)
15. Cleveland Indians: Eric Arnett, RHP, Indiana University It could come down to Arnett vs. Scheppers, with Arnett winning because of his easy signability and the questions surrounding Scheppers' shoulder.
BaseballAmerica.com: Draft: Draft Preview: John And Jim's Fantasy Draft
15. INDIANS (Jim). The Indians want an experienced pitcher and there's a guy sitting right here who may have the second-best stuff in the draft after Strasburg. We're not privy to the medical reports on St. Paul Saints (American Association) righthander Tanner Scheppers, but if they're clean, this is the point where his value clearly begins to outweigh any nagging doubts about his shoulder. I couldn't take Scheppers at No. 9, but I can take him here.
Ohio.com - Pitching is name of game for Indians in draft
Pitching, pitching and more pitching — and perhaps even younger pitching than has been the norm. That's the mantra of Indians scouting director Brad Grant as Major League Baseball's First-Year Player Draft begins Tuesday evening featuring a new format.
Indians Draft Picks Rounds 1-3
First Round (15): RHP Alex White, University of North Carolina
Alex White Scouting Report
White was a top high school prospect in 2006, but went to UNC instead. He's still one of the better arms now, though his performance in the spring has been a little uneven. He does have plus stuff with a fastball-slider combination along with the makings of two other pitches. He doesn't always command his fastball that well, but that could be corrected with some mechanical tweaks. With his stuff and his track record, he's likely to go pretty early on Draft Day.
Second Round (63): OF Jason Kipnis, Arizona State University
Jason Kipnis Scouting Report
It's hard to argue with the statistical success Kipnis has had at ASU, particularly in his junior season. But projecting him is a little more difficult. He's got average tools across the board and does tend to play above them. But he doesn't profile as an everyday guy at any one outfield position, making him more of a tweener or fourth-outfielder type. Still, he's tightened up his swing and his on-base ability should appeal to those teams who really value those skills.
Third Round (94): RHP Joseph Gardner, University of California - Santa Barbara
Joe Gardner Scouting Report
After the first tier of college right-handers, there are a number of interesting arms for teams to consider. Gardner, in his first season as a transfer to Santa Barbara, has put himself into that category. He's big and projectable with the chance to throw three at least average pitches. He runs into trouble when he loses his arm slot, his stuff flattens out and he loses command. Even with that flaw, however, the big righty should hear his name called in the first few rounds.
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It will be hard for us to top last year’s draft. I speak, of course, not in terms of talent and productivity, which I’m pretty sure we won’t know for many years for either draft, but in name value.
Last year’s top pick, Lonnie Chisenhall, has a certain flair to it. But it was really just a weak harbinger of things to come. The draft really got exciting in the 12th round with the selection of Guido Fonseca. Guido, you might recall, began his professional career in grand style by hitting two batters. Two rounds after Guido the Indians went for another strong name, Carlos Moncrief, aka the Enforcer. Nate Recknagel came in the 19th. Moises Montero, who I think operates a vacation establishment in the Turks and Caicos was picked in the 26th. Harkening back to the Tribe’s post WWII glory days, the front office selected former OSS agent Michael Goodnight. In a tribute to the Diatriber and encouraged by Terry Pluto, Cleveland selected Trevor Cousineau in the 31st round. In the 38th round the Indians tried to select former Browns possession receiver, Brian Brennan, but a bad phone connection led to them taking Brian Grening instead. A bad choice of take-out Chinese options for lunch led to sudden departure of personnel from the draft room late in the afternoon leaving summer Intern Dave Blogowski (MSG allergy) as the only person around for the 43rd round selection. Not knowing what to do he put together two generic names in the hopes they matched with a real person, preferably in the draft. Hello, Mike McGuire. Disappointed by this turn in the draft philosophy, the real front staff returned and picked Dean Lagonowsky, Randon Henika, and Hector Acosta-Carillo. Along the way the Tribe also showed an ecumenical spirit, selection Mitch Mormann, Nick Christiani and Adam Abraham. Plus, in a serious coup given the rumored greenlighting of Ghostbusters 3 (original cast!), the Tribe drafted Eagon (Smith). 2009 has big vowels to fill.
by APV on Jun 9, 2009 4:44 AM EDT reply actions 7 recs
In 2007 we drafted Beau and Bo at the top, adding Allen St. Clair for a trifecta of picks that sound rich. In 2006, anticipated the clubhouse debates about what kind of M&Ms to supply in the clubhouse, we added Stephen Douglas. The 2005 draft will be remembered for Weglarz! but we did also draft both Cody and Cameron Satterwhite, plus Arshwin Asjes.
I want to go on the record and say that the Nationals drafting Strasburg is a huge mistake and they absolutely should not do it.
Did I hear someone say Boo Thome?
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Although I may be the only person here, I also wonder if anyone wants to weigh in on this Arnett vs Scheppers thing? It seems like your classic safe pick vs. upside debate.
Also, I can’t find much good information that’s available for free on the net anywhere.
Honestly I’ve been getting a lot of info from Lookout Landing. Don’t tell them.
And why shouldn’t the Nationals pass on Strasburg? If they decide to play hardball and refuse to give him $50 million, do SS and Boras really want to risk him going back for his senior year? Making nothing? Odds are the Nationals are getting that pick again anyway.
Steel Nick
For me, it’s not just the money thing in a vacuum. It’s the money thing in the context of him being completely overhyped. I mean, TINSTAAPP, right? So why is everyone falling all over themselves that this guy can’t miss?
TINSTAPP encompasses the idea that some pitching prospects are so advanced that they are de facto major league pitchers already, hence “not merely a prospect.” David Huff for example. The case for Strasburg is that he’s already that good.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
I honestly did not grasp that such an idea was part of TINSTAAPP. Thanks for the heads up.
What do you think though? As you said in the other thread, velocity isn’t stuff and it’s easy for me to believe that Strasburg could just throw the ball past people in the Mountain West, which probably does not produce a lot of professional hitters as a conference. To my mind, his level of competition hasn’t been high enough for him to be “that good” already.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pVyw2JlloM
It’s a bit more than velocity. It looks like he has a pretty good slider/slurve that he was using to get strike one a handful of times. Draft report says he throws a decent 80 mph change. Although of course you’re right, his bread and butter is the fastball. He lived off it this game and these kids were no match for it.
Then again if it’s in the strike zone major leaguers should have plenty of trouble with it too. He did pitch in the Olympics and got batters out after all.
All I know is when Matt Wieters fouls off a Strasburg fastball, the impact could create a black hole. We’re in a time of all-time hype.
Steel Nick
You’re right. He does have other good pitches. I just can’t believe the unanimity. I don’t here anyone saying he isn’t as good as everyone thinks he is.
Seems to me that the fan’s perspective is always in favor of the fragile-but-awesome guy. The healthy-but-boring guy, we have to watch him struggle; the fragile-but-awesome guy, we get to enjoy when he’s in fighting shape, and it’s outtamind outtasight when he’s not.
That’s not to say the Scheppers-style pick is necessarily wrong, just that it’s a risk-reward question in which the fan bears none of the risk.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
You would think, having seen Laffey and Huff and even Sowers leapfrog over Adam Miller, that we would have learned to value guys like that.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
What I really wonder, as I intimated in the other draft thread, is whether the Indians think they’ve found a compromise — that they’re better off with multiple kinda-risky, really-good-but-not-breathtaking guys who command 2nd to 4th round-ish bonuses — or if that was just their reaction to last year’s crop.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Intriguing short note in the WSJ this morning that claimed the Indians have done especially well in drafting pitchers in recent years.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124451132127696643.html
Just at a guess, I wouldn’t have said this was true.
Although really now that I think about it the draft is a miniature version of a Shapiro trade. If we’re talking about the guy already can’t we be relatively certain we’re drafting someone else?
Steel Nick
I’m not an insider, what does he say about #15? Anyone? What are his thoughts on Scheppers?
Steel Nick
I’m not an insider either. I basically have decided never to forgive him for slighting Lonnie last year.
Neither, evidently, has Lonnie.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
My draft strategy? Guys under the radar making good on past malfeasance.
I noticed today that Casey Kelly, the SS picked right after Lonnie by the Red Sox (who signed him for between three and four times as much, I recall), has already been converted to a pitcher after a meek ’08 debut.
Does anyone else think we won’t draft a pitcher?
The Indians tend to ignore positional need questions entirely, so i they think a better position player is available, that’s who they’ll take.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Not entirely true, Bud Grant, the Indians’ Director of Amateur Scouting, states at about 00:27 in the video below, that the Indians do draft for organizational need, although not for need at the major league level.
http://videos.cleveland.com/plain-dealer/2009/05/brad_grant_cleveland_indians_d.html
by millionairesrow on Jun 9, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
In the first round, they’ll take whoever they think is best, and if they think a first-round talent is available after the first round, they’ll take him there, too, regardless of position. After the first couple of rounds, they may start to have a greater interest in positional balance and needs.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, it’s like a farmer’s affection nickname for his incompetent sheepdog.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Right now, I don’t have Aaron Crow or Tanner Scheppers going in the first round. Teams in the top 10 are telling me that neither is a top choice for them, with a few teams pointing to medical concerns about Scheppers, and everyone pointing to their belief that neither player will sign for less than what he turned down last year. Of course, either player could go later in the round or even afterward and still get a seven-figure bonus, but more than one scouting director or general manager has told me in the past few days that he doesn’t want to risk a first-round pick on a player who might not sign.
Law says Arnett.
I can see why we didn’t take Scheppers (though I don’t know if he was taken before us; I didn’t see the draft list outside of the first 3 – Strasburg, Ackley, and Tate).
Overall, it seems the choice of White is a solid choice, both in terms of health and in terms of potential.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
what’s this dennis joke I’m not getting?
by world dictator on Jun 9, 2009 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Dennis Nosco. He’s a self-styled draft expert and putative Indians fan. He’ll be over at Lastoria’s place tonight. He was over here last year and went after the Tribe for drafting players that weren’t highly ranked by Baseball America.
haha
I figured it was that guy. I’ve read some of the forum’s on tony’s website. Its funny that he’s even being ripped over there.
by world dictator on Jun 9, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Well really, why do the Indians even bother paying scouts when Baseball America puts out a list that everyone can use?
I am kind of shocked that he’s hosting Nosco again. This is a guy who was so awful in his content and style that they literally purged Swerbs Blurbs of everything he had ever written.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
speaking of Iver (although he’s not there this year) I’m going to be at the pitchfork thing in July sitting in one of the poster tents (over at the Flatstock portion) with my friend who has a table there selling his posters. He’ll be wearing an Indians hat, I’ll be next to him with a can of Old Style and possible some free give away sunglasses so that I can walk around looking at women without being caught. Anyone Chicago LGTer going should stop by and give “salutations”
How can a guy just suck, yet also be considered a first-round talent?
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Baseball Analysts interviewed Scheppers a couple of weeks ago. They didn’t interview Arnett or I’d have that too.
I stand by my prediction that we draft neither.
Steel Nick
By the way, I agree on Scheppers. No way we take him. But I could see Arnett, which probably means it won’t happen, as you mentioned above.
The reason it won’t happen is because the Indians are utterly unconcerned with convention and peer pressure as they create their draft board.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
But what do I know? I do believe that the need for pitching today at the parent club doesn’t make us any more likely to use the first pick on a pitcher than in any other year. But as always, so much depends on how the first 14 shake out.
I do expect that they’ll keep it close to the vest, and that Grant / Shapiro’s picking will be pragmatic yet clever.
Running bck
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Right.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
WHY TAKE CRABTREE WHEN YOU CAN DRAFT HEYWARD-BEY 20 SLOTS TOO EARLY?
by world dictator on Jun 9, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, after some informal research, my official ridiculous stupid draft-fan scenario for the Tribe is that Mike Leake makes it to 15. Bonus points because we’ll get to watch him in the CWS.
Bonus points because we’ll get to watch him in the CWS.
Interestingly, watching the CWS post-draft endeared me to Ryan Garko forever.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
What is wrong with the # new on this thread and the famous Z?
I’m assuming some stuff got deleted.
FE WEE
Yeah, I have been having technical difficulties too. I’m assuming it’s the blog’s natural defense mechanism because I’ve been posting too much today.
FWIW, I’ve had issues with this thread as well.
by millionairesrow on Jun 9, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
ditto
Ironically, I had trouble posting this very comment
by world dictator on Jun 9, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I know very little about most of these guys, but I’d be fine with Sheppers as our #1 pick, as long as he’s passed a medical review. I’m in the boat of wanting some high octane arms in the system, and he fits the bill.
Okay, having studied the 2009 draft for almost two entire minutes, I am going to make my dark horse prediction for the Indians’ first pick — Jiovanni Mier.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
When did they stop putting the word “committed” in quotes in this situation?
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Callis has the first eight picks (from what he’s hearing)
These eight picks look fairly certain:
1. Nationals: San Diego State righthander Stephen Strasburg.
2. Mariners: North Carolina first baseman Dustin Ackley.
3. Padres: Georgia HS outfielder Donavan Tate.
4. Pirates: Boston College catcher Tony Sanchez.
5. Orioles: California HS righthander Matt Hobgood.
6. Giants: Georgia HS righthander Zack Wheeler.
7. Braves: Vanderbilt lefthander Mike Minor.
8. Reds: North Carolina righhander Alex White.
These aren’t predictions, these are pre-draft “what I heard they’re doing.” I think going into today Hobgood would be seen as a surprise. And a bad pick.
Steel Nick
I know, but if this event had guts, the Braves would have been able to hear the news, say “dammit, we want Wheeler” and made a trade with the Orioles.
FE WEE
I know if you gave Shapiro the choice he’d trade down three times. I don’t want that here.
Steel Nick
They’re actually having the draft in the MLBN studio???
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 6:11 PM EDT reply actions
This is a game thread, right? I’m opening a beer.
I feel like there should be Mets fans in firefighter’s hats booing everything.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jun 9, 2009 6:12 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
The predictable.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Ronth was just thinking that it feels so EMPty with-out himself.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
With those numbers? Against the Mountain West? Not an upgrade over Ohka.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
So I was golfing this afternoon with my dad. My short game was an abomination, but I was ridiculous long and straight off the tee so I didn’t care. I’m shallow.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 6:20 PM EDT reply actions
I’m the opposite. If I can just get with 150 yards quickly I’d run the course.
Unfortunately my tee shots go about 150 straight, then 150 to the right.
Steel Nick
I’m ordinarily pretty handy with my middle irons, but I really overswing the short sticks. I like making things go boom.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I cannot play that game. I am both awful at it, and it interferes with actual golf.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Watching both at the same time is not normal.
No, not you. Your helmet!
by PatBordersHelmet on Jun 9, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Haha I had the one on mlb.com on because it took me a few minutes to find mlb network on my tv. I’m only watching one now, thank you very much.
by jakesinger777 on Jun 9, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
But which one? That is the question. The convince of not having a window open to flip between, or must you have an up to the second feed?
I went with the ‘convince’, mostly because I’ll put the Indians game on my computer when it starts.
by jakesinger777 on Jun 9, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
BORAS: Okay, so let’s get our first offers on the table.
RIZZO: We’ll give you five dollars.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 6:27 PM EDT reply actions
BORAS: Okay, very funny, but really, what’s your offer.
RIZZO: (checks clipboard) Ten. Ten dollars.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m telling ya, if he decides to risk injury and play independent for a year, he’s just getting re-drafted by Washington. Checkmate.
Steel Nick
Against what? He can choose not to sign, right? He can choose to play indie ball, right? He can re-enter the draft next year and face the Nationals having the first pick.
I’m honestly ignorant to any rule.
Steel Nick
BORAS: You’re just going to keep this up until I take a major league contract off the table, aren’t you?
RIZZO: (checks clipboard) Twenty.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Boston College is in Chester Hill, Bud?
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 6:29 PM EDT reply actions
He also said Ackley went to the University of Chapel Hill before he caught himself. He just hates the ACC, like everybody else.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
What is Jesus Bud and where can I get me some?
by jakesinger777 on Jun 9, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
So the Indians will pick, what, about 3 a.m.?
I must be lonely.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Where does a player have to be on your affection scale to get a YouTube comment on a Matchbox 20 video?
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of Youtube however, I posted a comment on Everything I Do, I Do It For You, basically mocking the video, I guess. And I infuriated a couple of Bryan Adams enthusiasts.
They have a few of everything on the Internet, don’t they?
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously though, they built in 5 minute breaks or some crap? Like they haven’t run about 5,000 mock drafts in the last two months. Pick already.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Shouldn’t be big news. I find Magic Hat brews interesting but not great.
Have you tried Wacko?
No, not you. Your helmet!
by PatBordersHelmet on Jun 9, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Concur on Magic Hat.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s what I’ve got. I wasn’t sure whether I should call it Summer Seasonal or Wacko, because it’s labeled both.
Steel Nick
Oh, didn’t realize it was a seasonal. Did you pour it in a glass?
No, not you. Your helmet!
by PatBordersHelmet on Jun 9, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Should be more of a true red.
No, not you. Your helmet!
by PatBordersHelmet on Jun 9, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
This is a lot less interesting than watching the NBA or NFL drafts. I think even most semi-knowledgeable baseball fans have never heard of the vast majority of these guys.
I once went to a speech by Tim Brosnan, the VP of Business for MLB. Afterward, I asked him why they didn’t televise the draft. It was a few days after the draft, and he asked me who my favorite team was, and if I knew who they drafted. I said I did—listed Aubrey, Snyder, Miller, Herrerra, and Garko. And he said “That’s why. There aren’t enough people like you to make it work, and the people like you will find out anyway.”
I don’t know if it came off as condescending in print as it sounded, but it pissed the hell out of me. Of course, now they do televise it. So who’s the idiot here?
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
ESPN did last year.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I know. Probably did okay for the first round and then awful.
Now they have their own network though so they don’t really need to worry about it.
Steel Nick
Right, if it had only been MLBN, I wouldn’t have as much of a leg to stand on. It was his one as much as anything, though.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Even more people like you wouldn’t be enough. There’s a difference between knowing who your team drafted and actually knowing enough about amateur baseball to be able to follow the draft with some interest.
by jakesinger777 on Jun 9, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
= why it’s awesome. You’ve never seen him get boxed out by a shooting guard, or drop a pass that hit him in the grill. You have no reality check. On draft day, for one day, they’re all superstars.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh, not with you on that one. I mean, their college/HS stats mean close to nothing and there is no way to determine whether a pick was a good one or not. That, in my mind, is the best part of watching a draft. I think the facts that a) college baseball is relatively anonymous and b) these players won’t be seen for years most of the time are insurmountable.
by jakesinger777 on Jun 9, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, so I read an article a little while ago on how there was this pitcher who could be in the majors this year and it wasn’t Strasburg. Anybody know who I’m talking about?
FE WEE
Pedro Martinez?
No, not you. Your helmet!
by PatBordersHelmet on Jun 9, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
He thinks it’s the 20th century? That explains a lot.
No, not you. Your helmet!
by PatBordersHelmet on Jun 9, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it rare? I’ve actually almost never heard him speak before. He is awful, though.
by jakesinger777 on Jun 9, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Just to bring up the WSJ article mentioned earlier in the thread: should teams be given credit for drafting a player who realizes his potential in another uniform? I say no. Drafting a guy, trying to develop him
Poop: Drafting a guy, trying to develop him, failing to do so and then giving up on him, is not, in my mind, an indication of being correct on a draft pick.
by jakesinger777 on Jun 9, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I withdraw my prior statement.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I say yes. Especially if they get consideration for him—the Rays don’t have Garza or Bartlett without Delmon.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah but Delmon had had a decent year in TB before they traded him. I’m talking about a Brandon Phillips situation.
by jakesinger777 on Jun 9, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh, you could make the argument with Guthrie, as the Indians screwed themselves with the ML deal. In general, though, I think you have to regard the draft as fire-and-forget. Mirabelli didn’t release Guthrie, you know?
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel like—and forgive me for judging this kid on his first 15 seconds on TV—the Giants drafted a moron.
Steel Nick
Was about to say: good thing they didn’t draft this guy for his brain.
by jakesinger777 on Jun 9, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Boy, does Jered Weaver’s hair ever keep getting dumber.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 6:47 PM EDT reply actions
I have literally no interest in this event.
2010.
by Gradyforpresident on Jun 9, 2009 6:48 PM EDT reply actions
It’s background noise while watching the Indians game before the basketball game starts.
by jakesinger777 on Jun 9, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Goldstein on the Braves pick:
The Braves take Minor. It’s indefensible. You don’t want to take a high school kid, that’s cool. You think he’s better than Alex White, who I’m not even that high on, and you’re nuts.
Number 7 picks who profile as No. 4 starters make no sense.
The Braves take Minor. It’s indefensible. You don’t want to take a high school kid, that’s cool. You think he’s better than Alex White, who I’m not even that high on, and you’re nuts.
Number 7 picks who profile as No. 4 starters make no sense.
Whoops. There was no original content there, forgive me.
Stop saying Cincinnatah
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 6:50 PM EDT reply actions
Well, he runs a hell of an offense, but without Harrell, who knows?
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Did this have to be Selig, technically? Couldn’t it have been Melissa Joan Hart or something?
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 6:50 PM EDT reply actions
They’re trying to keep her away from the young kids.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Great, I could watch with my 16 year old cousin.
TYLER: What were they thinking? He’s a reliever at best!
KIM: /texts friends about Robert Pattinson
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Too related. Bring on Candice Cameron, or maybe that Blossom chick.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Blossom?
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I could get behind this.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Throw in Winnie Cooper and I’d have to watch in a locked room.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Selig has 10 grand on whether he can pronounce something weird for every podium visit. He keeps saying Cincinnati and Detroit funny.
Steel Nick
Prep lefty, possibly the best pitcher available.
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/events/draft/y2009/reports.jsp?content=matzek
Steel Nick
Ok, I’m on board! Matzek, let’s go. See? I just needed something to root for here.
by jakesinger777 on Jun 9, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
That doesn’t even make sense. You were too busy singing to get anybody down.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
So we’re just randomly quoting lyrics now to get a laugh? Not funny.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
You want to take this outside?
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Oof.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I do a lovely mashup of buttercup and do you believe in magic on acoustic guitar. Real crowd parent pleaser.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m happy to stay here – is a real game thread up?
by jakesinger777 on Jun 9, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Colo-raad-o
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 6:59 PM EDT reply actions
There are dudes getting drafted in this draft that were born in years that I remember. Like 1990 and 1991. That sucks. I’m old.
Oh God.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Two years ago was my high school draft year. It freaked me out. If I were a premium prospect I’d be in the majors right now.
If it makes you feel any better, I’m old for AA.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I need to be mashing my way out of AAA and blocked by an All-Star.
2010.
by Gradyforpresident on Jun 9, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Looks like the Nationals are trying to get some help now through the draft. Not something you hear often in baseball.
Remember how we used to feel about people who were born in the 70s? That’s us now. Dig it.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
null
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2009 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
We got the best prep lefty in LAST year’s draft. What do you want?
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Via Lastoria:
To continue his development while finishing high school ÄŒervenka and the Indians have agreed upon a specific playing plan for the next two seasons. ÄŒervenka will continue to compete for his club team, KOTLARKA, during the 2009 season. He will travel to Goodyear for extended spring training during his school holidays and spend the 2009 and 2010 summers at the MLB Academy in Australia (Australian Summer League). He will maintain this plan until his high school commitment has been completed (high school in the Czech Republic ends at age 19).
Predicting those 3 players go in 12, 13, and 14.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Aaron Crow, listed as having “No School”
Whoa, he’s gonna be 23 this year….could he be topside next year with Greinke and Meche?
I guess a lot depends on how he performs. Just like Scheppers, he pitched all year against wood bats. Does anyone know if that makes a difference?
Steel Nick
c’mon man he does have tremendous stuff. I’d rather have White, but still, Scheppers warrants a long look.
Well those 2 guys are available for us. I’m guessing White.
by jakesinger777 on Jun 9, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions
guys, please post the name when it happens, i’m tv-less w/ shitty ’puter
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 7:19 PM EDT reply actions
I’m disappointed by his last answer, “What one word describes Alex White?” We would have accepted “Hardworking. Alpha Male. Jackhammer. Merciless. Insatiable.”
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jun 9, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
The more I look at it, Purke would have been a great pick too but the Rangers took him. I wonder what Shapiro et al were doing as all these pitchers started falling.
Steel Nick
White’s (relatively) pedestrian numbers in 2009 have him falling down some draft boards but with an excellent pitcher’s frame, solid mechanics and a low-90s fastball with excellent sink, scouts still think this kid is a future front-of-the-rotation contributor. White touches 95. Fans will get a chance to see White compete in his third consecutive College World Series in the coming weeks. He’s a junior, so that’s three in three years for White. Not bad. (Posted by Patrick Sullivan)
Steel Nick
Bryan and I both get it right as Cleveland takes Alex White. Looking at where we were 10 hours ago, there must be a ton of high fives right now in Cleveland’s draft room — crazy great get at 15, and he’s signable.
Dug this up from an Unfiltered post I filed in Omaha last year:
“After the game, [Fresno State coach] Mike Batesole said he would be "shocked if Alex White doesn’t go first in the draft next year." It’s hyperbole, but it’s amazing what White has done. A starter all year, Mike Fox called on White in relief for three consecutive days. He didn’t have his best stuff today, but all weekend we saw a 93-96 mph fastball and a wicked slider. Steven Strasburg is in another tier, which Batesole might not realize, but Alex White certainly joins Grant Green as the guys right behind Strasburg. It will be a good year to draft in the top five, if nothing else.”
When the slider is good, like it was last year, he has three nasty pitches, a big frame, and a floor as a legit Major League reliever. Is it bad I like 11-15 more than 2-6?
From BP’s roundtable with Goldstein.
Also from BP:
Quick note to those who worry that Alex White doesn’t strike out tons of hitters…he has almost a 2 to 1 groundball to flyball ratio in 2009
Hm, the Indians, favoring a groundballer? Weird.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate his name. “Alex White” isn’t the name of a ballplayer, it’s the name of a draft bust.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
his first pro inning – 3 Ks, 2 HBPs – the guy is a darkhorse
by APV on Jun 9, 2009 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Man, screw Scheppers. The only reason we ever talked about that guy is because everyone thought White would be long gone.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
After hearing reports that Scheppers’ injury history is still murky and the fact that he probably won’t take less than he was offered last year, I’ve moreless soured on him as well.
If we could get him in a later round and be able to sign him, I might take a flier, but that probably wouldn’t result in us signing him, so I’d probably look elsewhere now. It’s likely better we didn’t take him – my bad for preferring him before. It’s amazing how more facts can change one’s opinion quickly, isn’t it? :-)
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
I won’t be surprised if he’s a flier pick, but risk is risk, a hard divisor on the projected value of the player.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Most folks had him at 7 or 8. I saw one mock draft that had him at #12.
I think the A’s tweet probably has it right … it’s a muddy pool of talent.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It sounds like White had “higher-rated” talent, but for whatever reason, he dropped – hopefully, that turns out well for us. :-)
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
He had a couple rough patches, and he throws the split too much. The Indians are more scientific and thus less superstitious and less easily “spooked” than the average club. Everyone saw White as a Top 5 guy a few months ago, and the Indians possibly still see him that way.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Just taking a flier. He looked convincing to me, and I would speculate he was the Indians’ top position player on the board.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Ed Wade might be great at drafting. He sure ain’t great at contracts.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/06/indians_take_white_at_no_15_ov.html
blah. A reliever? c’mon.
For the record, I hate converting any starter to reliever unless it’s a necessity and it’s clear he can develop no more as a starter.
Steel Nick
there obviously have been a number guys converted from starter to reliever with great success. Usually it’s because they lack a third pitch, command issues, durability or just a boost in stuff. White doesn’t fit any of those “criteria” except maybe shaky command, but that could be fixable.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I am really disappointed to hear we drafted a reliever, in our estimation, in the first round. Hopefully, we’re able to make up for it in the next few rounds if this is true.
I know, my statement had nothing to do with what the organization plans to do with him. Obviously I disagree with them if they’re going to turn him into a reliever right away.
Ah, right.
I’m wondering if this is a real report. Obviously it’s real. It just doesn’t seem like part of the Plan though. Then again neither was calling up LaPorta so early.
Maybe… maybe he’s been going so hard for UNC at the end of this season and throughout this tournament that they just want to “Woah there” him for the rest of 2009. But does that hurt if they try to switch him back for 2010?
Steel Nick
Well, you could easily limit his workload with pitch counts, or you could just shut him down.
I can’t imagine them turning him to a reliever right away. White has too much leverage to not sign a deal and return to UNC for his senior year.
So, I’m thinking about it more and I’m thinking: If the Indians scouts think he’s the closer of the future, a la Papelbon, and he could be ready by the end of next year, I would definitely be OK with that.
But if he’s going the Rafael Perez route, seventh inning, eighth innning set up guy, then it’s crappy.
He’s going to be blocked by Ace Closer Bear Killing Kerry Wood and Boy Wonder Jon Meloan.
Steel Nick
Ehh, even Papelbon was a 4th-round pick
by cleveland teamer on Jun 10, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
The presumptuousness of a civilian strongly criticizing the draft never fails to crack me up.
Here’s the classic of the genre.
The Indians generally do not convert new amateur signings to relief right away, even if they think that’s where he’ll end up eventually. It’s tough to get relievers as many innings as you’d like them to have to develop. Unless they think White can jump into the big-league mix next year, I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t start in the rotation.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t really mean it, if that makes you feel any better.
As a general rule, it seems like not a great idea to draft a relief pitcher in the first round though, no?
I don’t know.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
And, really, to call me booing loudly presumptuous is like calling what the drunk guys at MSG do every year when they boo some poor college football player inappropriate or rude or something like that. There’s no way you take me that seriously.
I was missing the “irony.”
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not that there’s irony, it’s that I feel like I have earned a reputation of not having strong, “know-it-all” opinions. Realistically, I like the community here and love the analysis that you and others smarter than myself about baseball provide.
I try and limit my contributions to jokes and fairly innocuous complaining and I thought everyone had caught on to the fact that it’s really all I do.
Dude, you’re selling yourself short. I’m way more irrelevant than you. (This is where I would use a smiley face if, you know…..)
Maybe he has irrelevance by association.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Even if they plan to make him a releiver, there’s a good chance they’ll start him out in a rotation to get him reps as he works with whatever mechanical issues they want him to work on. Putnam was in the same boat this year, and only got taken out of the Kinston rotation when we had our brief system-wide bullpen panic.
I agree, tho – with his pitches and history, you have to give him a chance to start. I’ll be very disappointed if they put him in the pen right away.
And I’m really supposed to treat you guys like you’re two separate people?
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually feel the same.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
And this dude from the MLB Scouting Service WILL NOT criticize a pick. WILL NOT. I wish a team would draft me.
Frank would say “Well, this is a guy I’ve never heard of, so you gotta figure he’s got talent to be drafted this high.”
Great room, strong walls. Solid bed for lovemaking or heavy petting. A real hotel room.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jun 9, 2009 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
No, the other one is coed.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
“After Strasbourg, Draft pieces fall into place.”
Thanks for that, MLB.com. I really thought everyone was going to flee the continent or start eating themselves or something after the first pick.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 9:40 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Andrew H, if you were wondering, Jack McKeon was in Seacaucus tonight as the Marlins dignitary. I’m pretty sure he was wearing an Indians t-shirt under his blazer.
Andrew is shattered that we took a UNC guy and is now rooting for the Astros.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
So, he’s basically Ben Francisco?
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the Indians know something we don’t about converting good athletes to center field. Remember when Brantley’s defense was considered shaky?
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sorry, Micucci is the funniest last name I’ve ever heard.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 9:48 PM EDT reply actions
What the hell, can’t be less interesting than the WBC.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jun 9, 2009 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
The best news is, you start watching and drinking this game at 1 and you’ll be at full speed in time for Tribe/Cardinals at 8
Oh good lord, I cannot drink for more than 4 hours anymore without falling asleep.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s the sleepiness, but there’s also the fact that my hangovers really dialled it up once I graduated and stopped living upstairs from a bar. Now, I get a couple sheets to the wind and start thinking, aw, hell, I’m ruined til noon.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Jack is syrupy enough on its own. If I want a Coke mixer I usually go with J&B.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Which one of these am I supposed to reply to?
It’s always reassuring to hear someone else’s “it used to be easier to drink” story, because mine sounds exactly like yours and I pine about the good old days more than I’d like to.
A year ago, I mixed a lot, mostly with caffeine because it seemed to work. Now I’ve adopted sort of a military approach and I just blast right through fatigue to drunkenness. Alternatively, I drink three beers and yawn a ton, which makes me a real catalyst for late night shenanigans.
Ha, but I see 21-year-old dudes out at the bar now, slovenly and raucous, and I enjoy being able to form complete sentences. It’s like, no, I’m not as unconscious as I used to be able to get, but I’m also not pudgy and puffy-eyed all day. I take this trade.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
When the BA guys says, “I gotta be honest, at the beginning of the year I wasn’t aware of this guy,” it’s time to turn in.
Steel Nick
I cracked an MGD. I’ll wait out the Indians’ third pick.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
WE’RE ON THE CLOCK FOR THE THIRD ROUND, FOLKS! GET FIRED UP!
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 10:26 PM EDT reply actions
Both have significant wood-bat league experience.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
To me, it feels like two arms worth getting excited to see in pro ball and a big shoulder shrug for Kipnis.
Thinking about that. Remember that we took Cord Phelps very high last year as well, even though he didn’t turn out to be as expensive as some guys who came later. Maybe they’ve just identified 2-3 as good places to sneak in an affordable college position player
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Replying to you and dg, I guess my first reaction with Kipnis is that his bat isn’t as big as Fedroff’s and he’s not a proven 2B commodity like Phelps was. I’m open to the idea that they think he can really play center or they want to try to move him to 2B.
Maybe the Brantley comp that got brought up earlier is valid.
Fedroff also was just a good athlete who hadn’t played much center, but I specifically asked about that, and Grant said they had every reason to believe he could stick there.
I mean, if Kipnis is a good defensive CF, does that change your analysis any?
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
First of all, as I defensively said to Jay earlier, anything I say is not analysis. It’s average-fan-speak, nothing more.
Having said that, yeah, if he’s a good defensive CF, there’s room for that in the lineup. What little I had read made him sound more like he was too unathletic for center but not stickful enough for the corners.
Oh please, like I’d heard of any of these guys except that Salzberg whatsisface before tonight.
I’m just saying, Brad Grant knows a whole lot more about what makes a good center fielder than I do, so if that’s their explanation for it — he’s like a left-handed version of what Jason Michaels was supposed to be — then I’m on board.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Should say, to the extent I think about any of this, I imagine these scouts learn a lot more about a guy’s swing by watching him take a few cuts than they do about his defense by watching him run down a few fly balls.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I am excited about White because he’s a first round pick and everything I’ve read sounds good, but I really have no way to know what to think about these guys, nor will I for probably a year.
by jakesinger777 on Jun 9, 2009 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
God, Callis, just undo the suit coat. Just UNDO it.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 10:31 PM EDT reply actions
I haven’t done any research and am just gonna go all cleveland.com on you guys, but I don’t like using the 15th overall pick on a relief pitcher.
Was just about to post on this. Brad Grant’s job as far as Alex White is concerned is over — Grant’s the draft director. White will almost certainly begin his career as a starter, and if he has the mechanics and the ability to keep it up, the Indians won’t move him out of that role for the hell of it.
What I’m saying is, we didn’t re-draft Zach Putnam here.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
This seems a bit naive. The Indians are an open organization that likes a free-flow of ideas, not so much each guy marking his own territory. The first-round pick does not go to a guy on the basis of a development plan that isn’t in harmony with the organizational philosophies on that subject. Furthermore, the first-round pick most assuredly gets direct input from Shapironetti.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Agree and disagree; I surely didn’t mean to slight Grant. Larger point being, if he pitches like a starter — cleans up his delivery, maybe, or if he shows serious improvement in his change-up or curveball, or if his joint mobility reports come back super-happy — then the Indians aren’t going to foreclose that developmental opportunity to him just because it’s not what they originally dictated.
I’m getting wordy. If White demonstrates the health and talent to start, I don’t seriously believe the Indians won’t give it full consideration. That’s all I mean.
by fleerdon on Jun 9, 2009 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions
And for the record, the Indians have said that “Putnam is not a guarantee to never start again.” Granted, it’s likely Putnam will likely be a reliever, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility that he could start for a ML team.
My main point is that, I think the Indians have every intention of White starting for them. If, he can’t develop that 3rd pitch (scouting reports say he already has a plus fastball and a plus slider), then at worst (provided he stays healthy, of course), he’s a back-end reliever or even closer.
But to presume he’s only a reliever as ASP mentioned above I don’t think is accurate – he also started for NC; every intention is that he will start in our system until further notice, and at this point, he is a starting pitching prospect, not a reliever prospect.
Just my 2 cents – no offense.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
But there’s a difference between a reliever with the potential to start and a starter who might relieve.
If the default opinion on White is that he’s a reliever then the odds are stacked against him being a starting pitcher. He could pitch well and still wind up in the bullpen because of where the Indians project him. Or if White struggles in the rotation, the Indians will probably see it as validation of their theory. Whereas another player might be given the benefit of the doubt and/or more time to develop.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think the Indians are going to make an uninformed knee jerk decision. But Projectability plays a big role in player development..