Tony Bernazard: Madman?
Probably not a good idea for an aspiring GM.
over 2 years ago
FallsTribeFan
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Got to love the pretentiousness of the NYDN:
While the 52-year-old Bernazard’s actions were over-the-top no matter what the motivation, alleged underage drinking on the team apparently was one motivation for the eruption, an organization source said. Still, sending players to counseling rather than challenging them to a rumble might have been a more appropriate course of action.
Counseling? Really?
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 22, 2009 8:49 AM EDT reply actions
I thought hitting them with a steel chair was a better method!
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 22, 2009 9:04 AM EDT up reply actions
If photos of a shirtless Tony Bernazard surface, I’ll change my avatar.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 22, 2009 9:47 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
you know, if shapiro stripped naked and challenged the entire bullpen to an anchorman-style fight, while hurling a few offensive words at Ben Francisco, I’m not sure I would complain. Its basically the only thing that hasn’t been tried. Plus, afterward he could make convoluted reference to “advanced sabrmetric techniques” as the genesis of his new approach, and everyone would start nodding.
Veras killed a guy. With a trident.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 22, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
He’d better lay low for awhile.
"Some days are better than others, but it's a long season."
— The Inestimable Eric Wedge
by emd2k3 on Jul 22, 2009 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
using a slang term associated with a woman’s anatomy
he called him a “decent”?
by Brick. on Jul 22, 2009 9:59 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Mulva?
"Some days are better than others, but it's a long season."
— The Inestimable Eric Wedge
by emd2k3 on Jul 22, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Darn. I was hoping no one had posted this yet. Best part of the article.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jul 22, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
There are two types of people in this world:
People Chuck loves.
People Chuck hates.
I’m pretty sure Tony just made Chuck’s good list.
Steel Nick
In the year 2009.667 the music has been gone for as long as it ever existed. The straight-up videos as-programming is now ancient history as far as the main station is concerned. We’re all outside their target audience anyway. Because the year 2007 brought me the Dire Straits vids on YouTube immediately at hand, these changes don’t affect me in the least.
There are two types of Clevelanders according to Chuck:
People from Cleveland provided you are blue collar
Everyone else
by Roger Dorn on Jul 22, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
No, Roger in my view there’s only one kinda Clevelander. People who have actually lived in Cleveland – not Mentor, not Medina, not Westlake – Cleveland. Now I’m sure that there’s a enclave of corporate executives somewhere in Cleveland proper but I’m not sure where that would be. East 152nd and Superior maybe? or 79th and Union or maybe it’s over on the Westside at W46th and Fulton? I dunno. When you find out where it’s at let me know.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
I think the Indians should concentrate on alienating fanbase on the basis of geography. That’s the ticket.
by afh4 on Jul 23, 2009 3:55 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree. Over 1/2 of the city of Cleveland’s current residents are African-American. The crowd at Progressive Field is overwhelmingly white. All those corporate executives living in Parma and Euclid will be glad to hear they’ve been disqualified as true Clevelanders.
If you’re looking for money in Cleveland, try the Warehouse District (CSU just contemplated buying a condo for its new Pres. that would have cost North of a million dollars). He’s from New York, via Florida, by the way.
It’s a funny situation, because the city limits are drawn so tightly, moreso than in just about any other big city. The equivalent of Cleveland Heights, certainly, would be within city limits in almost any other town.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
The idea of regionalism—copying the model of Louisville or Columbus—has been talked about, but it’s far from taking any kind of hold. People in the surrounding communities readily identify as Clevelanders, but no sane person can look at Cleveland and accede governance to that body.
There was a situation a few years ago over expansion at Hopkins where Cleveland considered invoking some authority to annex Brookpark. I don’t remember how that played out, but Brookpark is still intact.
It had to do with the IX Center, which BrookPark controls but which was in the way of runway expansion. I don’t think it ever got finally resolved. The runway wasn’t built, anyway.
In the context of baseball, I think a more interesting question is not who’s a true Clevelander, but where the geographical limits of Cleveland Indians fandom lie. I have a friend who travels around the state a lot, and is based near Columbus. He tells me the line tends to shift — when the Indians are good, Indians ‘nation’ expands South into what was previously Reds’ territory. The reverse is true when the Reds are doing well.
jhon, jhon, jhon, if you think that any of the suburbs – even totally disfunctional ones like Maple Hts or East Cleveland – would buy into the Cleveland school system or police and fire systems, you must not fully appreciate how screwed up they are. Nope, Cuyahoga County will consist of 32 seperate entities for the rest of our lifetimes.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
Although in theory I am a proponent of Regionalism.
In practice, my parents still live right next to Cleveland, and I wouldn’t want them to have to endure a tax increase along with less reliable city services.
So you’re in favor of it as long as people in the suburbs don’t actually have to pay a time to support the city that ties the region together?
Sounds like you’re actually an opponent of regionalism. Opinions in textbooks don’t mean a damned thing.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
I think we should aspire to it. I’m only opposed to it in Cleveland in the specific neighborhood at this immediate moment (and for the year 2009). Maybe it should be started piecemeal—that probably should have happened a long time ago for some places. I’m don’t think all locales are ready for it yet—certainly not the one my parents live in, which is a mere 5 miles or so from downtown, very near Cleveland’s western boundary. Part of it is because it seems premature, like the right leadership just isn’t in place to rally & steer this kind of a project. Although I’ve championed a consolidated region 10 years ago and ever since—almost up to the present day—a lot has happened since then. My are folks likely to be adversely affected by macro-forces that are taking shape as we speak. Know what I mean?
2009 just isn’t the year to do it. We’ll have to wait to see what shakes out. I hope the status quo ante will be restored and that some day soon a consolidated region makes more sense.
Ok, that word choice was overblown, but you know what? I’m leaving my job and my current residence in the next couple weeks (which you’re aware of, I don’t wish to say more about it here), and I’m going to be working on these kinds of problems more seriously.
I’m not ashamed to say that I make exceptions to the textbook principles in Cleveland that I might not in looking at other cities. I’ll settle that apparent contradiction in grad school.
I’m just saying, it’s easy to be for something in concept. If you’re not still for it when it affects your own pocketbook, then you’re not really for it.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Guilty as charged. I’m in good company. Someone asked me recently where the city dump is in DC. The answer? There is no city dump. A dump would be a convenience for us, but that dump has to go somewhere.
I know of people here who advise development projects in Angola and the like who never had any interest in participating in their community of origin or solving their DC neighborhood. Maybe it’s easier to operate where we have no personal attachments.
Now back to the city dump: say an abandoned mattress ends up in your alley. After a while it starts to smell awful, yet the affected parties individually consider, “I didn’t put it there, not my problem. Someone else should do it. How about the jerk who put it there?” In my neighborhood, these are the same people who work at, say, the World Bank. It may take awhile before anything is done about the decaying mattress; action comes only after it gets real bad. We’re more stubborn when it comes to our own space, and yet sensitive to perceived threats to our lifestyle and more resistant to change. Maybe we’re just plain lazy.
The story has a happy ending. It turns out there’s a dirty mattress hotline operated by the city, and one can schedule a special cleansing operation without being asked to take the blame for the mattress. At least we get something out of our high local taxes.
But if I didn’t eventually call that hotline, who would have?
I don’t think you’re in good company. Based on your account, you’re in the company of a bunch of douchebags.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
I wouldn’t know, but that isn’t my field.
I work in software design and music production. I am passionate about the principles of doing good work in each, and I don’t go around undermining those same principles every day, neither in my professional life nor in my personal business. That’s all I know.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Also, my neighborhood is functioning well enough that my parents never have to leave it. My dad literally never escapes walking distance, and almost never travels to Cleveland. There are many others like him. Cleveland only very indirectly sustains them.
The neighborhood is a rarity in Cleveland in this regard. In inner-ring of Cleveland there might be 5 or 6 such clusters of 10-20k people who live in a truly high-functioning environments, places where you’d find all aspects of life—especially economic—operating independently of Cleveland. My parents happen to live in one of them.
But yeah, I’m only speaking about today. The future will change things.
My experience with this system suggests it’s just not a good thing in practice. Although it’s possible that Louisville just did it wrong (and many of the problems are the outgrowth of a consent decree related to school segregation with which Cuyahoga County is not saddled).
The time has come to censor myself here, but there are apparent differences between Cleveland and Louisville in pursuit of regionalism.
Both the similarities and differences end up looking more like obstacles.
Given the nascency of the merger it’s hard to tell right now—this aberrant year of 2009—how well this is paying off in Louisville.
Well although I lived in Cleveland proper, I am not a “true” Clevelander since i never held a job in the mills, auto plants, etc.
Whatever.
Here’s somemore “myth making”. I just searched all my posts and nowhere – nowhere – does the phrase “true Clevelander” comeup. This jibes with both my memory and my position..
Like I said, if you’ve lived in Cleveland then I believe the discriptor “Clevelander” is accurate. If you haven’t, it isn’t. Pretty straightforward, n’est-ce pas?
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
Not to pick a fight, Chuck, but you did say this:
Joe Posnanski left Cleveland during his early adolescence for North Carolina, I believe. His recollections of Cleveland and what it means to be a Clevelander are those of a suburban white boy. Every thing he writes about Cleveland screams this. The thing that makes Cleveland, Cleveland is its working class roots. It’s not its art or its academic or “cultural” institutions that define Cleveland, it’s its blue collar ethos. Joe Posnanski never experienced that side of Cleveland. He never belonged to a union, he never worked with his hands, he never got drunk on W25th St. In short, he missed the most important parts of the Cleveland experience that shapes every Cleveland guy I know.Now, maybe you’re saying Joe’s not a Clevelander because he’s too suburban, but I don’t think that’s what most of us took you to be saying. Then again, I never claim to be a Clevelander, true or otherwise, as I grew up in Akron, in the suburbs no less.If they blew up University Circle and all of the architectural wonders inside the city tomorrow, Cleveland would still be Cleveland. But you shut down the steel mills, and the stamping plants and the refineries and the Cleveland that is left is not the same as the Cleveland we all celebrate.
Yeah Fred, I still believe that. And in essence they have shut down the steel mills, and the stamping plants and the refineries – that had been done before a wrote this post. That was my point. Posnanski harkens back to that time just about every time he writes about Cleveland and so does Raab and so do I. That’s cuz it was a magical time when the three of us were wet behind the ears. That Cleveland, the tough guy, blue collar WWII vet city is long gone. But some of the current generation still claim that ethos – even though it doesn’t exist. My own claim to it is rather tenuous since – even though I’m older than dirt – I’m not a WWII vet and I haven’t lived in Cleveland since ‘97. But I did go to Beehive Elementary – as well as Raymond in Maple Hts – and attended South High for a year before going back to Maple Hts. I can tell you withoug fear of contridiction that those were very different experiences. Working for Battelle or Boeing as an engineering is also very different than digging ditches for Turner Construction. It’s a much different ethos.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
That’s certainly a big part of it. But really, when you speak to someone outside of Cleveland their frame of reference is Cleveland from about 1947 to 1980 – “Cleveland – ya gotta be tough” – the river and the mayor’s hair catching on fire – the steel mill and bar scenes from “The Deerhunter” – bowling shirts and "the full Cleveland" clothes – stuff that hasn’t been around for decades.
But the suburban guys – Jay’s post alludes to it – wanna wrap themselves in that aura without experiencing the pain. It’s like being a fair weather fan – or worse yet a Yankee fan. I ain’t havin’ it. They couldn’t stick around and help fix Cleveland’s problems – poverty, disintegrating schools and city services, racial animosity, etc. – all the ugly parts that were/are part of the Cleveland landscape – then goddammit they ain’t got the right to call themselves “Clevelanders”.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
What about those who have moved in since that point in time? Are the younger generation of people raised in Cleveland not actually “Clevelanders?” Because for us, 1947 to 1980 isn’t Cleveland, it’s history. Or does the tag still stick and the time frame you suggested just serve as an example?
Tell ya the truth fwembt, I dunno. Don’t know a lot of guys in their 20’s who actually live in Cleveland – not even my buddy’s kids. Mostly, cuz my buddy’s – like me – live elsewhere. I guess I need to back offa this a little. But I still think my standard – you actually hafta have lived in Cleveland to call yourself a “Clevelander” still makes sense – don’t you?
Guys from North Jersey don’t call themselves “New Yorkers”. In fact they’re belittled by “New Yorkers”. Hell if you’re not from Manhattan you’re part of the “Bridge and Tunnel” crowd. South Jersey guys don’t call themselves “Philadelphians” – amirite Jay? – they say they’re from South Jersey. Same in LA if they’re not from LA proper then they’re from Orange County or Venice or Marina Del Rey or whatever. They might qualify it by saying they’re from “near LA” but I can’t remember any guys I knew from outside of LA who called themselves “Angelinos”. Same with Houston, same with Denver.
It just might be one of my many quirks, but ya gotta admit it’s a pretty logical standard. You lived in Cleveland, then you’re a “Clevelander”. You didn’t, you’re not.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
So would you apply this to other cities like St. Louis for example. I have always lived in the suburbs and still call myself a St. Louisan. Is that not allowed? I don’t think you can blame families for wanting to move to the suburbs in a place like St. Louis anyway when the schools are falling apart and losing their accreditation. Or when living within the city limits means living in the most dangerous or second most dangerous city in the country. The point is downtowns like New York are great places to live, downtowns like St. Louis are not. I don’t think New York is a good comparison. Philadelphia might be but I still think it’s downtown is in much better shape than Cleveland’s or St. Louis’. I don’t know if what I said made any sense but I think living in St. Louis County is very good justification for calling yourself a St. Louisan.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jul 25, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve got a passing familiarity with St. Louis since a coupla guys I went to school with did their residency at Barnes. One of ’em still lives there. When he first moved there he told me he “lived in Webster Grove – outside of St. Louis”. Later he moved to University Ave. – in St. Louis.
St. Louis is a lot like Cleveland and East St. Louis is a hellava lot like East Cleveland. That’s about all I know about that town. That and the fact that it has a much better national image – kinda like the difference in our respective baseball teams.
I guess if we’re doing comps – kinda like baseball comps – Cleveland’s probably more like Detroit or St. Louis and not NYC or Houston or Philly. Still.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
I live in Webster Groves! Best schools in the city.
I still don’t completely agree with you and I think it has a lot to do with what someone said somewhere in here about a generational thing.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jul 25, 2009 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t want to be part of the blue collar ethos of Cleveland. I do want to be considered a Clevelander though having grown up there (suburban Cleveland) in the 90s
I don’t want to hear it, Bridge-and-Tunnel.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 25, 2009 6:28 AM EDT up reply actions
So, in order to be a true anylander, you have to endure that region’s downfall.
I’d rather not be a true Clevelander, then.
"Some days are better than others, but it's a long season."
— The Inestimable Eric Wedge
I do recall you doubting my roots somewhere in the past, but I won’t bother looking it up. I moved away when I was 10, so I never go to “be a working class” Clevelander or get hammered on those 25 cent brews you reminisced about.
Just because a native Clevelander didnt live your life and tribulations does not mean they are nto true Clevelanders. You mean to tell me the nuns who support the Tribe are not true Clevelanders because they did not suck in the mill dust or get drunk every weekend? What about the restaurant workers who served the “working class” heroes you idolize? The doctors, teachers, the bus drivers, the RTA workers? Do any of them qualify? Heck even John D Rockefeller himself is a true Clevelander and he was the furthest from blue collar as you’ll ever find.
If you want to romanticize your teenage through 40s as the end all be all existence, that is all perfectly well and fine. But DONT tell other people they are not compatriots in Cleveland (or Tribe) fandom because they don’t mirror your blurred vison of your hellion days.
talonk were back to this “true Clevelander” thing again. All I said was that you should have at least lived in Cleveland for awhile if you wanna call yourself a “Clevelander”. Is that so outrageous? And sure I know lots of folks who grew up in Cleveland who are not “working in the mills” mostly cuz the mills are shutdown. One of my buddys went to East High and ended up with a PhD from MIT, and yeah, he’s a Cleveland guy. But he and I share an awful lot of experiences that you wouldn’t necessarily equate with PhD engineers.
And this is seperate from being an Indians fan. You love the Tribe? I’m with you all the way and don’t give a hot damn where you’re from, when did I ever say different?
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
The use of the term “true Clevelander” is not meant to be a direct quote, rather it’s lampooning your position by likening it to the sentiments of Steinbrenner and Yankees fans, who talk about whether someone is a “true Yankee.”
Anyway, this is not a blog about our terrible Cleveland, but rather about our terrible Cleveland Indians.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Double-A affiliate entered last night with a 36-58 record, in last place in the Eastern League’s Northern Division
Well here’s a team that’s actually playing worse – by half a game – than the Indians. If I had anything to do with “player development” I’d be a little frustrated too.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
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