Transactions: Betancourt Traded
by Ryan on Jul 23, 2009 10:21 PM EDT
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Traded Rafael Betancourt to the Colorado Rockies for RHP Connor Graham (A+)
After the 2002 season, the Indians didn't have a lot of money to spend. They had committed to a complete rebuild, but still had a lot of dead wood on the payroll. So they went the cheap route, signing lower-tiered free agents like Brian Anderson and Shane Spencer, and going hard after minor-league free agents. Casey Blake, signed in December, was a good get, as the only real reason he hadn't gotten a shot in majors was because the talent of ahead of him. They also signed Rafael Betancourt, a converted infielder coming off major elbow surgery. Both players would blossom into good, sometimes outstanding, major-leaguers, and are Mark Shapiro's best two free agent signings by a large margin.
Betancourt was called up in 2003, and stuck around over seven years, an eternity at a normally itinerant position. He had a great five-year run as the Indians' primary setup man, and was one of the major reason why the Indians won the AL Central in 2007. He threw 79.1 innings in that magical season, giving up 51 hits, striking out 80, and allowing just 9 walks and 4 home runs.
And now we've come full circle. Last season, Casey Blake was dealt to the Dodgers, as he was approaching free agency. And now, Betancourt has become too expensive to hang onto. He has a 2010 option that very few teams would pick up, and there was no chance the Indians would bring him back. For a club already committed to paying Kerry Wood $10.5M in 2010, paying a declining setup man $5.4M was out of the question. He had his first bad season as a major-leaguer in 2008, and he missed over 30 games with a groin injury this year. He's still an effective reliever, but not good enough to keep at that salary.
Connor Graham has been starting for Colorado's California League affiliate, but is most likely headed towards a relief role as he heads in the upper levels of the minors. He's a big guy (listed at 6'6", 235 lbs), and throws hard (sitting in the low- to mid- 90s), but has trouble throwing strikes, a normal problem for pitchers of his size and arm strength. He's a decent prospect, and the Indians need pitching, but this deal was made with present and future salary in mind.
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I feel for you. I don’t necessarily agree, but I sympathize.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Jul 23, 2009 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it just me or does 23 year old AA pitcher sound a lot better than 23 year old A ball pitcher?
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 23, 2009 10:32 PM EDT reply actions
Slightly better, but he has to solve the wildness. 130 walks in 246.2 minor-league innings isn’t good.
It’s not, y’know, Chris Perez bad, but yeah.
by Logodaedalus on Jul 24, 2009 12:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Perez then Graham. Guys with great stuff, but control issues. Sounds like we are committed to more anxiety filled late innning moments. Maybe management’s goal is to kill Wedge via heart attack rather than fire him.
by ShawnK on Jul 24, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Might as well just repost it:
Regarding Graham
I was a student at Miami and lived in Oxford for some time after graduating (its an awesome place). I’m quite familiar with Graham, and saw him pitch all three years at Miami. Along with Graham, Miami had other highly drafted pitchers, including Keith Weiser (2nd round), John Ely (3rd round), Matt Long (2nd round), Graham Taylor (10th round). Connor Graham was the most talented of the group, but he was inconsistent and his poise on the mound was inferior to the others. The first time I saw him was his freshman year as a reliever. He came out throwing 91-95 MPH and showed a hard biting, tightly spun, yet inconsistent, breaking ball — the type of breaking ball that snapped. I thought I was looking at a future first round pick. Over time, the more I saw of him, the more his inconsistencies showed and he was clearly not a future 1st rounder.
I thought Graham was the type of pitcher that would do much better vs. wooden bats b/c his stuff had good, hard late breaking movement and that he was unlikely to ever make it as a starting pitcher unless he demonstrated vast improvement in mechanical consistencies, and development of a change-up. His mechanics weren’t pretty, nor was his arm action. He isn’t particularly athletic, and I thought that he would always have problems with control. I thought that he went in the draft exactly where he should have; the 5th round. Over my time watching him pitch for three years, overall, I was disappointed in his lack of development. He was the most talented pitcher to come through the program at Miami (which says a lot b/c they had legit pitching prospects there). His stuff is first class, but mechanics weren’t great and I questioned his mound presence. It was always clear to me that he profiled the best as a back-end bullpen guy, but inconsistent mechanics and less than ideal mound presence negated this profile projection. I don’t recall being too impressed with him in pressure situations. This is why, I believe, this pitcher that had clear potential to be a late 1st rounder to 3rd rounder went in the 5th round.
It’s clear that Graham is a bullpen guy. The Indians will move him there soon, if not immediately. I’ve always been intrigued by him, and if you get enough of these hard throwing relievers, a few of them will end up panning out. I believe he is a better relief prospect than Zach Putnam, for comparison’s sake, but I’ve never liked Putnam :)
by OhioTommy
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
OK, so second cousin of Jason Davis? Oh well, I don’t think I could be disappointed any further after this train wreck of a season.
by Wil Cantrell on Jul 24, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
More power!
Columbus update: Marte 4-4 with 2 more home runs (17), Laporta with a HR (12). Rondon his 3rd consecutive win at AAA, 7 innings, 2 runs, 7 K’s. Marte at 1B.
Good luck to Raffy B. I’ll miss him and his mound routine.
You mean he’s hot for a white guy? Maybe the Blue Jays want him.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jul 23, 2009 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I know this will seem odd to a a lot of folks, but I have trouble getting worked up over a minor leaguer with a crap walk rate, and Marte has a crap walk rate.
Having said that, I can say that he is doing what a major league hitter is supposed to do in Triple-A, i.e., dominate pitchers like he simply doesn’t belong there.
Marte leads the IL in OPS with 958, just ahead of LaPorta at 938. What’s more interesting is that the line behind him includes no other skill position players … it’s just a huge list of LF, RF, 1B and DH. If you look at just skill position players, here’s what you get:
1. Marte – 3B – 958
2. Jackson – CF – 828
3. Dlugach – SS – 809
4. Brignac – SS – 794
5. Bynum – 2B – 784
6. Conrad – 2B – 763
7. Patterson – CF – 761
8. Ruggiano – CF – 754
9. Maxwell – CF – 754
10. Bankston – 3B – 752
11. Turner – 2B – 747
12. Stubbs – CF – 730
I don’t know if this is just some kind of a fluke, but to sum up … Marte’s evidently the best hitter the league … and the only skill position player among the Top 17 hitters … and only one skill position player is even within 150 points of him. The league’s only really good hitters are essentially a bunch of one-dimensional players … except for Marte, who is not so one-dimensional, and who is apparently the best hitter.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
So, let me get this straight: there’s a guy named Stubby Clapp and a guy named Clappy Stubbs? And they’re both ballplayers?
I don’t think there’s a Clappy Stubbs. There is?
Stubby Clapp is the Canadian who everybody up there loves.
Image return for Clappy Stubbs:
by afh4 on Jul 24, 2009 1:07 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
True, but I think his walks and K’s are both lower than they “should” be because he’s swinging the bat so well. He’s not taking many strikes.
What I want to know is, does he pull the ball too much?
by FredOx on Jul 24, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It was only one game that I saw him (just moved to Columbus), but that swing was way long and he was pulling everything. Although, one of those ABs, he pulled a pitch over the left field wall.
by Ryan Kelsey on Jul 24, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I am just saying. If he is leading the league in SLG, then his walks might suffer because he is swinging at everything. His walk rate was low before he went on this recent tear, so it is something to be cognizant of, but you can’t walk if they are throwing it over the plate and you are crushing it.
There’s something to this idea.
HOWEVER!
What happens when he reaches the bigs and forgets what to do when minor leaguers aren’t leaving it over the plate? “Swinging away has been working for me recently…”
Steel Nick
Agree with this completely. I’m happy to give Marte another chance in the ML and a lot of PT for the rest of this season, but I am by no means sold on his AAA performance this year. Don’t forget the O in OPS. He’s got a very respectable OBP despite his poor BB rate b/c of his BA. We’ll see if any of this translates to the majors. I’ll be really happy if it does, but……
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Jul 24, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
It isn’t nitpicking, because the walk rate is borderline horrendous.
It’s one thing when a guy is batting .370 or .380 or something like that — you can’t expect him to take pitches when he’s obviously getting a bunch of meatballs and/or just seeing the ball extremely well.
But he’s batting .327, not .370, which looks as much like a lucky streak as a hot streak.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
An interesting Shapiro quote today from Heyman.
Shapiro, speaking generally about all teams’ recent valuations of prospects, said, “There is an understanding of the value of young prospects in roster construction. But it’s almost to the point where there’s an over-evaluation of these guys. There’s almost an over-correction.”
Yeah. If it’s reported correctly, it sounds as if Shapiro is encountering GM’s who think their best prospect is SO good and SO valuable that acquiring an all-star caliber player like Lee or Martinez in exchange isn’t worth it. He’s also saying it very much in public, so it may be a part of the overall negotiation process that’s undoubtedly going on.
No doubt its part of the trading process.
I just hope and pray he doesn’t blink first in this game of chicken.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 24, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Whatever one thinks of Shapiro, he has done pretty well when he’s traded significant players away. And, he’s the one holding the cards; he doesn’t HAVE to trade either Lee or Martinez.
Yes. Those are two major benefits Shapiro has. Whatever you think of how he’s done over the years, we go into this trade deadline knowing:
A) He doesn’t need to trade his players as badly as the other GM might need them.
B) He does well for himself in trades.
Steel Nick
I’m more than fine keeping Vic and Lee if we don’t get really high value back.
I’m thinking Garko is the one that absolutely has to be traded no matter what. He has no business being on this team right now, and he’s hitting well enuf to be of some value to someone.
We can keep Lee and Vic and JP and still manage to incorporate the likes of Marte and Laporta to give them good exposure, but only if Garko is not on the roster. His absence means playing time for them.
No reason for him to be on this team this August.
by mcrose on Jul 24, 2009 10:31 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I’d rather keep both players this year, too. One, it gives a more realistic shot at having a competitive 2010, and two, both of those guys would still potentially be worth something next July. Look at what we got for Sabathia’s final 3 months under contract. It’s unlikely that Lee or Martinez would be worth as much, and there’s the injury risk (increased by the fact that they play the two most injury-prone positions in baseball), but I think it’s worth it unless someone seriously throws a ton at us in the next week.
Il faut d'abord durer.
Marte won’t get much PT if Jhonny’s still here; and 1/2 season of AAA success won’t cancel out the perception that he missed his “chance” over the past few years.
That said, by all means trade Garko. I see no reason why we should be looking at him and Francisco playing for a bad team.
I actually think Jamey Carroll is the most trade-able of their spare parts; he might actually bring something worthwhile in return (not a lot, but something) and what’s wrong with playing Valbuena more than once every two or three days?
yeah, but if Marte gets called up, he has Victor getting significant AB’s at 1B in front of him. And, LaPorta may get some PT there too. Given Wedge’s previous handling of Marte, I’d be surprised to see him play there more than once or twice a week.
That might open up some room for Marte (and would require Vic to catch more).
I wonder, though, about the logic of all of this. Marte is a good defender at 3B and, as Jay pointed out somewhere, he stands out as a POSITION player, not as a first-baseman (where he has some competition, even in the minors). One could hope he’d be an upgrade over Garko in some ways (more power), but it seems to me his value is as a third baseman — he plays the position well and has the potential to contribute more offensively than many third basemen do. Plus, if he did establish himself as a major league third baseman, he would be much more attractive in a trade if you decided he wasn’t the guy you wanted playing there for the next several years.
If someone thinks Marte has found it and deserves to be a major league regular, the logical thing to do is trade Peralta.
Yes, and while they can find playing time for Marte with JP on the roster, there really isn’t room for both of them next year, for example. That’s why the FO will not go beyond saying Andy deserves ML time – with JP on hand, they can’t project him in Cleveland at 3B.
At this point, I just want Marte and Laporta to get 2 months of relatively steady at bats, at whatever position. Garko leaving and Benny getting his AB’s cut a bit at least affords that. If they show they are better bets for next year, off season roster moves can make it happen.
I wouldn’t mind seeing Garko and Shoppach traded. Then give Marte meaningful innings at 3B for the rest of the year to see if he can be the 3B of 2010. And give LaPorta the bulk of playing time at 1B with Martinez moving back to mostly catcher. Peralta can return to SS for the rest of the year and Shapiro can try to trade him in the off season.
Why not? He’ll still get days off. If Martinez is done as a catcher, he’s much less valuable to the team.
Still disagree with this. His bat will improve the less he catches. Besides, Santana looks a lot better than Mills or Brantley at this point.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 24, 2009 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
His bat will improve the less he catches.
Will it, though? And by how much? Enough to justify putting him there over LaPorta, or enough to warrant resigning him?
As far as I’m concerned LaPorta is our LF next year. I mean, its the most obvious spot for him, right? And I don’t think he was a total butcher out there. Unless Brantley is ready for full time Major League duty, is there anyone else even in contention for the LF spot? On the other hand, 1B has a handful of other options with Garko and Victor and even Marte and Brown for 2010.
As far as I’m concerned LaPorta is our LF nextyear monthgame.
Better still.
"Actual versatility is a good thing. Imagined versatility is a bad thing."
Jay Levin
by woodsmeister on Jul 24, 2009 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, but it really doesn’t matter for 2009 at this point, as long as he gets ABs. No matter what, it seems like it would be easier to get him those ABs in the OF.
by Ryan Kelsey on Jul 24, 2009 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
i prefer LaPorta in left as well. I going off of comments from the Indians last month that LaPorta is focusing on 1b defense. Why, I don’t know.
I also read that and it is why I think LaPorta will be at 1B. I’m guessing that it’s because of Brantley.
Brantley … and Wegz down the road I think.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 24, 2009 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s why I said “Brantley,” who, one will notice, is not a 1B.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 24, 2009 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I know the prevailing wisdom is that Martinez hits better when he catches in fewer games (90 to 100 games). Is this true? Victor has caught less this year but seems to hit about the same way. I think when he catches less he has less risk of injury (see 2008) and thus is available more often. But I am not sure there is this corrleation between his offensive performance and his games caught. If that were the case, he would just be a 1b all the time.
Is that the conventional wisdom? I always presumed you catch him less so he stays healthier. The offensive benefit is that he hits better as a 1B than as a C on the DL, and that long-term he will hit better as a part-time C than as a full-time C with bad knees.
I’m actually making the stronger assertion. See below.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 26, 2009 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions
But at the very least the minimal benefit we expect from Victor’s hitting at 1B is that the decline will be staved off. That’s the “conventional wisdom” we can all agree on. I don’t necessarily disagree with your implication.
Steel Nick
No doubt.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 26, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
What I actually mean is that he’ll become a better hitter when he’s no longer primarily a catcher; I think this is a rule across the board, although my evidence is largely anecdotal: Inge, Biggio, Surhoff, Sweeney, et al. The only counterexamples I have off the top of my head are guys who were so comically overwhelmed by their new positions that it was bound to affect their overall game—like Piazza and Todd Hundley.
I didn’t mean to imply I was basing my opinion on two 250 AB samples from Victor’s recent past. Instead, I meant to imply I was basing it on my untrained, unreliable, and unscientific memory. But until proven wrong, this is my position.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 26, 2009 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions
I think you’ve got Piazza mixed up with somebody else. Piazza has only ever played 70 games at another position (1B) and it only affected his line in that his babip dropped to .240.
You know Ryan, since your last Transactions post on a trade was “DeRosa Dealt,” I really felt like you missed an opportunity with the fire sale coming. This could have been “Betancourt Bounced,” followed by “Lee Leaves,” “Pavano Packing for ______,” “Garko Gone,” and “Victor… Traded.”
Steel Nick
It’s too bad Pittsburgh has no reason to acquire Pavano.
by Logodaedalus on Jul 24, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Castro’s preview today is centered around a “Garko is next” theme, and discussed the looming threat of LaPorta:
But it’s not a given that the opportunity will exist with the Indians beyond this season. The club has its top position player prospect, Matt LaPorta, getting regular time at first base at Triple-A Columbus. And Martinez, as long as he’s with the club, will continue to see time at first, as well.Given that the Indians’ site has become HQ of the Ryan Garko Fan Club (motto: RBIs Rule!), you get gems like this, from one “candiotti”:
They ruined Garko. This is the STUPIDEST, MOST INEPT, ownership/management I’ve Ever seen in Cleveland. The Tribe motto should be “Two in the bush is BETTER than one in the hand.” Even if at sometime in the future LaPorta outbats Garko, it won’t be by much.
STUPIDEST, MOST INEPT, ownership/management I’ve Ever seen in Cleveland
Guy must be pretty young or maybe he’s not a basketball fan, cuz Ted Stepien retired that trophy years ago.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
And now, the Ted Stepien Memorial Trophy for Stupidest, Most Inept Ownership/Management goes to….
"Actual versatility is a good thing. Imagined versatility is a bad thing."
Jay Levin
by woodsmeister on Jul 24, 2009 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Making the playoffs alone qualifies Shapiro above every other GM in Cleveland since the 50’s except for Hart.
Even if at sometime in the future LaPorta outbats Garko, it won’t be by much.
What?
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
Key word is outbats.
As in, has a higher batting average.
As in, “I am a moron.”
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Also! This still isn’t going to be true all that often.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 24, 2009 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Tyler—you might enjoy this.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 24, 2009 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
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