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Straight Talkin' pt 3 (Indians Prospects)

 

 My opinions on Indians prospects. I'm withholding opinions on prospects I've never seen. Just one man's opinions.

Trey Haley – I’ve been very disappointed in his performance. The reports on him out of high school indicated that he had some pitchability. His projections are excellent and he has the ability to spin a breaking ball well. I was willing to be patient on him for 2 years, but no command or control to speak of is a major concern. I don’t know what to attribute this to, unless the Indians are reworking his delivery. He is still an incredibly projectable pitcher, but we’re not off to a good start here. Very disappointing so far. I haven’t seen him throw this year, but it’d be an interesting view.

Carlos Rivero – I was quite critical of him after seeing him in May. The positives are a good body and good throwing arm, but he doesn’t look to have the lateral agility or bottom half quickness to play middle infield, I didn’t see any real bat speed, and there isn’t much projectability to his body. He may gain weight, but he’s not the type of athlete that can retain existing agility after adding muscle mass. I think his hitting performance will improve based on his minor league track record, but the guy was never really that good of a prospect to get excited about to begin with. Jhonny Peralta comparisons are obvious, but Rivero doesn’t have the bat speed nor swing plane that Peralta has.

Eric Berger – This guy was a very good draft pick by the Indians. He’s a lefty that gets good downward plane action on his pitches, which I really like. Not many lefties throw this way – many of them are taught to throw at lower arm slots for whatever reason. His delivery is not the cleanest and his durability is a question mark, but I think this guy is a prospect. He reminds me of Scott Lewis, but more velo and less pitchability.

Carlos Santana – I think Santana is an excellent prospect. I wrote a lot about him last May, so reference my previous reports. His batting average is low right now, but I don’t see any reason why he shouldn’t be hitting for average. He’s got excellent bat speed and quickness, and his BB/K are excellent. He’ll hit for better average in the future than what he has done so far this year. He’s an excellent athlete with clear potential to gain strength in the future to boost his power even more. Given his athleticism, he could easily play 3B or a corner outfield spot if he’s ever blocked at C. He is smallish for a catcher, so scouts will question his durability. Santana is one of the most exciting position prospects I have ever seen. I hope he stays healthy playing catcher.

Hector Rondon – Now here is an interesting pitching prospect. Rondon has an athletic, easy, fluid delivery and he has loose arm actions. It is not difficult to project Rondon to throw even harder in the future. I think he’s a guy that could easily pump 92-94 MPH consistently in the future. His command of his fastball good, but his breaking ball is not there yet. His arm slot is a low ¾, and I believe he is more apt to throwing a slider than curveball. He has good arm speed and I think the breaking ball could come on in the future. I fear that he will be rushed to the major leagues and not develop the way he needs to. His numbers show that he could be in the majors soon, but I don’t think it’s the case. He’s more advanced than he should be at this point. Rondon is a potential 2-3 starter down the road, but he has more physical development to do, in addition to nailing down the breaking ball. I hope the Indians are patient with him, b/c I like him.

Jeanmar Gomez – Pretty good pitching prospect, but not nearly in the same league as Rondon. Gomez gets by on a deceptive arm action and major league average stuff, similar to Rafael Betancourt and Russ Ortiz. Gomez isn’t the type of pitching prospect that I go crazy for, but flies under the radar and could turn out to be a good major league pitcher. He isn’t really all that projectable, and he doesn’t really have strike out stuff, but I think he’s a decent pitching prospect.

Alexander Perez – Not as athletic, loose and fluid as Rondon, but Perez is a prospect that should generate some excitement from Indians fans. Perez pitches taller than Rondon, and has the makings of a better breaking ball, but doesn’t have the projection that Rondon has (even though he’s younger). He’s got good pitching proportions, has a quick arm, and a good arm slot.

Lonnie Chisenhall – OK, I’ve figured Chisenhall out. I was critical of the selection at first b/c he didn’t profile anywhere all that well. I asked a friend of mine in scouting about Chisenhall, and he said “tweener, but he can hit a little”. Same thing I thought after seeing him once. Others have similar opinions. Bottom line is that physically, he is a tweener, but he guy has a flat skill at putting the good part of the bat on the ball. The guy is a good hitter, and that is what makes him a prospect. He still doesn’t have the upside of a hall of famer, but the guy can hit. At first glance, scouts will see him and profile him as a 3B that doesn’t seem to have enough power to fit in as a corner infield guy, but Chisenhall has shown in Kinston that he can get extra base hits, and hit for more power than scouts think he will after seeing him once or twice. He’s got the potential to be a very solid 3B at the major league level. He is the type of guy that will be underappreciated by many. Astute pick by the Indians (never thought I would say that).

Cord Phelps – He’s the type of guy that I’d generally call an overdraft, but I like this guy. I think he’s got a pretty good skill set, and I think he’s got some extra base pop in his bat. Just watching him take infield practice, I would think 3B more than 2B, but I think he can hack it at 2B. He doesn’t have the stereotypical agility scouts like in middle infielders, but he’s certainly adequate. I think he is a better hitter than he’s demonstrated so far in Kinston. He won’t show up on a lot of top prospect lists, but I think Phelps is pretty solid. He could eventually be a pretty good 2b/3b/of utility guy if he doesn’t work out as a starter.

Zach Putnam – You can see my previous posts on him to see me criticizing him. I don’t think he was worth the $$ the Indians gave him, but he’s a decent pitching prospect. I’ve said from day one that he’d end up in middle relief, and it looks exactly like where he is headed. I think his UPSIDE is an 85 cents on the dollar version of Chad Qualls.

Kelvin De La Cruz – This guy is talented arm that I hope comes back healthy. It’s been a shame that he hasn’t thrown this year.

TJ House – The guy is plugging right along, and is looking like a better prospect than Trey Haley at this point. I think that House is the type of pitcher that will need to pass the Double-A test before I get too excited about him. I follow college baseball prospects closely, and if House would have ended up as a freshman in college, he’d be looking like a first round pick when he would become eligible. House doesn’t have the projectability of Haley, and his upside is less, but I think House could end up having the prospect status of David Huff did if he stays healthy and continues to progress. He strikes me as a guy that might hit a wall when he goes to Double-A b/c the stuff and upside isn’t all there for me, but just my opinion.

Connor Graham – I’ve seen him pitch for 3 years at Miami. See a previous post of mine for my opinion.

DRAFT PROSPECTS –

Alex White – As a supporter of the UNC baseball program, I’ve seen him quite a bit. White reminds me of a young Dave Burba – there is some stiffness in his delivery, and I believe it leads to streaks where his command is subpar. White’s stuff is similar to Burba’s; a good hard fastball, slider and splitter. I think he pitches similarly to him, as well. Both are stingy pitchers that will walk guys, but don’t give up a ton of hits. I’ve seen the talk about moving him to the bullpen, and I don’t think it’s a good idea. Obviously, the pen fast-tracks him, but the opportunity cost is a solid 3 starter. White is a “what you see is what you get” pitching prospect, that doesn’t offer much projection, but he doesn’t need much of it. I tend to like the loose, fluid, athletic guys like Rondon more, but White was a good selection by the Indians.

Jason Kipnis – I was disappointed in this draft pick. It’s difficult to project a prospect like this to start regularly in a major league outfield. He doesn’t have the size or power projection to be a corner guy, and I’m not so sure he’s even a CF guy. Even at CF, you’ve got much more talented players in the major leagues. However, Kipnis has a good swing and the type of plane that should generate some decent power in the future (but below major league average at the present time). The optimistic comparison that stands out to me is Nate McLouth. Both are very similar players, but McLouth really demonstrated great improvement in his development as a baseball player. There are lots of guys like McLouth that never make the majors that nobody knows about. Kipnis could easily end up being one of those guys. You hate to see 2nd round draft picks used on guys that project as 4th outfielders, but perhaps the Indians see something in him. I can see him being a 15-20 HR guy with a .375 OBP someday, as an upside projection. I see some reasons to be optimistic, but I probably would have steered clear of this guy in the draft this early.

Top 6 Prospects

1 - Carlos Santana; One of the best position prospects in the minor leagues. If any of you get the chance to see him in Akron, he’s worth the price of admission.

2 – Matt LaPorta – I’ve never liked some of the stiffness I’ve seen in his swing going back to his days as a freshman at Florida, but the guy has produced. He is going to be a valuable asset for the Indians in the coming years.

3 – Hector Rondon – Talented arm with good projection. He has good command, and I like the way his fastball rides. More velocity to come. Indians need to be patient with him.

4 – Lonnie Chisenhall – The guy hits the ball square. This is difficult for scouts to identify if they only see him once or twice a year.

5 – Nick Weglarz – I love the upside, but I fear that major league pitching will eat him up. I see a Jack Cust kind of player here. I hope I am wrong.

6 – Alex White – It’s unnecessary to move him to the bullpen, and would certainly be an underutilization of his talents.

I see a drop off in prospect quality below the top 6, so I’m just ranking the top 6. These six guys are all legit prospects.

 

Comment 28 comments  |  12 recs  | 

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Fantastic set of observations, thanks very much for posting this.

Do you see any other potential bullpen arms in the system (not incl. the recent trades)? I’m wondering if guys like Judy, Pestano, Carlton Smith, etc. might have the stuff to surprise us and move quickly.

by mrich on Jul 28, 2009 12:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Sorry for the delay with the responses here.

Unfortunately, I’ve nevet seen any of those guys pitch. I might have seen Pestano pitch when he was in college at Cal State Fullerton, but I don’t seem to recall it. Sorry.

by OhioTommy on Jul 31, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great post, Tommy — so few of us have the ability to contribute this kind of insight about our players and prospects.

You mention Huff a few times by way of comparison. I’m curious, what do you think of Huff at this point?

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on Jul 28, 2009 1:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Once again, sorry for the delay.

Regarding Huff, I only briefly saw him in college, never saw him in the minors, and only saw him with the Indians once (very recently). Huff isn’t the type of pitching prospect that jumps out at scouts. Scouts like long limbs, looseness, arm speed, and Huff doesn’t have those traits. Huff has a good delivery and some decent pitches, but he pretty much grades out average in everything. I think pitchers like Huff struggle initially as they move up the ladder (from Triple-A to MLB, or single-A to Double-A), and I believe that is what we’re seeing now. His stuff is pretty much ML average, his mechanics are good and he should be a durable pitcher. I was a little surprised that he struck out so many guys in 2008 between AA and AAA, so a part of me is optimistic that there is more there from a pitchability standpoint. He’s not a front of the rotation guy, but a 4-starter that should be able to put up 180-190 innings a year has value, especially at cheap salary. The word “average” comes to mind frequently when thinking of Huff.

by OhioTommy on Jul 31, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great post indeed.

Just one small correction — De La Cruz made 2 starts this year, so he did pitch some, but that’s obviously far from a full season. I actually think that when healthy, he’s the best pitching prospect we have.

What’s your take on Barnes?

by JP_Frost on Jul 28, 2009 2:11 PM EDT reply actions  

You’re right about De La Cruz. That was a short-sighted mistake on my part.

I’ve seen some of the guys that the Indians acquired in the last week and here are my opinions on only the guys I’ve seen;

Jason Donald – I first saw him as a freshman at Arizona and he looked like a guy that would eventually be a 1st round pick in the draft, but he regressed his sophomore year and didn’t improve enough his junior year, so he went in the 3rd round. Athletically, I like him. He has the agility to play in the middle infield, and do it pretty well. His arm strength is below average for MLB shortstops, in my opinion, but I think he could play the position at the major league level. To go along with the defensive skills/abilities, he has a quick bat and good extension through his swing. Just watching his swing, I think you could verl well project out a .300 hitter with 35 2B, 15 HR at the major league level, but Donald does have a track record of disappointing with the stick, so I’m hesitant to call that, but skill wise, it is there. People are down on Donald now, but I believe that we could look back at this trade and think, “The Indians traded for him at the right time, when his value was low” b/c he isn’t producing at Triple-A right now. I think he’s a good prospect.

Scott Barnes – Interesting pitching prospect, and I think this was a great acquisition by the Indians. I saw him in college, and he’s got the makings of a good pitching prospect. He’s got a thin frame, but his arm is loose and quick. I saw projectability in his arm, and I saw the makings of a good slider. The one thing that threw me off was his delivery — it’s kind of an over-rotation in the upper body and through the pitch. Brian Fuentes has a similar delivery. Some scouts may look at it and question his durability and command b/c of it, and I hypothesize that is why Barnes was an 8th round pick instead of a 3rd round pick. There is also some recoil in his delivery that needs to be straightened out to keep his arm healthy. Barnes is kind of funky, but if he can stay healthy and throw strikes, he could end up being quite a good pitcher. I thought he was a guy that could throw 90-94 MPH with a hard, electric slider eventually. If he doesn’t make it as a starter, I can see him doing really well in the bullpen. I think he’s going to be an interesting guy to watch.

Bryan Price – Came out of the bullpen at Rice, and that could eventually be where he ends up, but I think he’s got the potential to be a starter in the major leagues. He’s got a good pitchers body with some room to grow into, his fastball gets good downward and tailing action that is tough to hit, a good breaking ball that breaks well on two planes (vertical and horizontal) and a change-up with some potential. I think he came out of the bullpen b/c he was a raw pitching prospect when he showed up on campus at Rice, and the program is known for developing lots of pitchers, so he had guys that were ahead of him on the depth chart. I think he’s a good pitching prospect, but he was less developed than most college arms coming out of the draft, but he has progressed very well this year (I’m a little surprised he’s doing so well; I think he’s ahead of his development schedule). I like him, and think he’s got potential to be an impact starting pitcher in the major leagues.

by OhioTommy on Jul 31, 2009 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I’ve seen a few of these posts and every time I wonder, who is this guy? I mean no disrespect but I’m curious what your background is, Tommy, such that you can provide this level of scouting analysis? Are you just a baseball fan with a lot of time on your hands to go watch games? Do you have a background in scouting baseball?

Forgive me if this has been asked before.

by NickFantana on Jul 28, 2009 3:48 PM EDT reply actions  

When I was in college, I was an associate scout for the Pittsburgh Pirates. I primarily turned in reports to the area guy for college players in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and Michigan. I wanted to be a full-time scout, but it’s real tough breaking in, job security isn’t great, and it wasn’t the life I wanted to live. Instead, I got a job at a “super regional” bank in Ohio and worked in commercial lending for three years. Presently, I’m a financial economics graduate student and I aspire to work in the corporate debt markets.

I watch a lot of college baseball (but not as much as I used to). The Cape Cod League is awesome, seeing Team USA play is a great opportunity, and you can catch some games on ESPN for the super regionals and CWS. I like to see area college games, too. I’ve studied prospects qualitatively quite a bit. One time on the Cape League, I was wacthing Mark McCormick pitch vs. Dallas Buck. I was getting readings from my radar gun on McCormick, and a gentleman behind me asked what the last pitch was. I turned my head and said, “95”, and then noticed that it was Peter Gammons cherry picking the readings off me. It was awesome. He is a really nice, genuine guy.

I’m not a professional scout, but it’s something I really like to do. I’ve got opinions, and I like to share them. People here seem to be well-educated and bright, so I figure that I’d throw my opinions out there.

by OhioTommy on Jul 31, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

a gentleman behind me asked what the last pitch was. I turned my head and said, "95", and then noticed that it was Peter Gammons cherry picking the readings off me

That is awesome

by APV on Jul 31, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was peripherally involved in the game a few years back and almost all the national baseball guys were good guys, very approachable etc. The local beat guys? Think Sheldon Ocker…

Stuart Dean

by stuart dean on Aug 1, 2009 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, a good way to learn about this stuff is #1 watching a lot of baseball, and #2 listening to scouts talk. I was fortunate to know a few people in scouting, and taking in the types of things they look for and talk about is a good way to pick up on this stuff.

by OhioTommy on Jul 31, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

We really appreciate the kind of takes you bring because, as you can imagine, it is not the easiest thing to learn about scouting, and watch enough baseball to have an informed opinion on it. The more of this, the better. Thanks again

by Roger Dorn on Jul 31, 2009 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks very much for the thoughtful reply. I’m thrilled to have your insights here, it is, as has been said before, a welcome addition.

by NickFantana on Jul 31, 2009 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for sharing this with us. It’s fantastic.

by Ryan on Jul 31, 2009 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

shoot, good to know man. you’re a great asset to this site—keep up the good work.

by Cap'n Snegiryov on Jul 31, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s nice to have a resident scout to go along with our 150-odd resident analysts and lone resident kinesiologist.

I have a side question for you, don’t worry about responding promptly: What the HELL were they talking about on Baseball Tonight last night? I caught the replay this morning and it was “scout talk” about how you can judge a future MLB-caliber player by the height of his ass and the shape of his head. Seriously?

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Aug 2, 2009 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s only a matter of time before half of the majors is filled with Placido Polancos….

by Logodaedalus on Aug 2, 2009 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pedroia’s ass is very low, about a foot off the ground. And his head is big. Explain that, scouts!

by FredOx on Aug 2, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha, I’ve never heard of that. I think the shape of a player’s head is referenced in Moneyball as some scout talk (or is it face?), though. I didn’t see that episode, but ESPN has some people that know how to evaluate talent. Listening to Orel Hershiser analyze pitchers in game is good stuff!

by OhioTommy on Aug 4, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Excellent article. Hope the Indians are able to sign White before too long.

by MooneysRebellion on Jul 28, 2009 4:38 PM EDT reply actions  

The Jack Cust comp on Weglarz is a little chilling…

Stuart Dean

by stuart dean on Jul 29, 2009 10:22 AM EDT reply actions  

Could be. They’re somewhat similiar, with walks and power. But here’s one little note: Cust was crushing the TL at age 21, but striking out in 26% of his PA. Wegz, also in AA at 21, is striking out 17% of his PA. He still has more walks than Ks. It’s pretty encouraging.

by dgcambridge on Aug 3, 2009 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Weglarz has improved with the strike outs as the season has progressed. Weglarz is more athletic than Cust, for what it is worth. I know that Weglarz is young and fairly green, but has he demonstrated the ability to hit for average thus far in his career? He’s drawn walks fine, but MLB pitchers have better command and pitchability than minor leaguers, and won’t walk guys (as much) that don’t hit. I think Weglarz is a good prospect, but he could very well put up Jack Cust-like numbers. That’s not really a horrible thing, though. Weglarz still has a ways to go.

by OhioTommy on Aug 4, 2009 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right, that isn’t a horrible thing. Anyway, here’s his BABIP numbers (all at least 147 ABs):

05: .311
07: .339
08: .324
09: .262

I don’t offer this to suggest that he’s naturally a guy who will put up a .330 BABIP, but just to say that we shouldn’t conclude from this year that he’s some unusually low average guy.

by dgcambridge on Aug 5, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

i’d like to hear your thoughts on masterson.

by Cap'n Snegiryov on Aug 4, 2009 10:45 AM EDT reply actions  

I think he’s a talented pitcher. He’s big and strong with some athleticism, arm speed and the ability to throw a good slider. However, I don’t like his arm slot. He has a very low arm slot and lefties get a very good look at him. His stuff is relatively flat (not much horizontal movement). You really don’t see too many guys in MLB rotations that pitch with such a low arm slot, but you see plenty of those types of guys in the bullpen. Masterson is talented and has good stuff, however. I think giving him some chances in the rotation is a good idea, but I don’t think he’ll ever be a front of the rotation guy. Pitching vs. lefties is an uphill battle for Masterson, and probably always will be. He profiles best as a relief pitcher, and I think he could be a very good one.

by OhioTommy on Aug 4, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

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