Billy Beane: The Revolutionary

An interesting article on Billy Beane's impact on baseball and some praise and criticism of his methods.

over 2 years ago ShawnK 18 comments 0 recs |

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Good read. Thanks.

by Toxicadam on Jul 28, 2009 3:14 PM EDT reply actions

Good stuff:

And it is in this spirit, as his team suffers in last place without a single .300 hitter or a box-office draw, that the knives sharpen.

“So much for the genius … He doesn’t look so smart anymore, does he?” an American League scout sneers while looking up the paltry batting averages of the A’s hitters before a June A’s-Padres game. “Let’s see them make a movie out of that.”

by JimmyAB on Jul 28, 2009 4:19 PM EDT reply actions

I enjoyed this article. The average fan isn’t even aware that Beane exists or has had a signifcant effect on baseball. I also think it’s important to point out that teams like the Red Sox have an even more unfair advantage since they now employ Beane strategies as part of their arsenal.
And the pendulum is swinging back. There is currently more of a respect for qualitative elements in evaluating players. An example of this: When Pronk was hurt, I told my buddies I thought he’d be back and possibly would reinvent himself. I felt this because I watch him with the CF camera and I see that his main strength is his ability to identify pitches. His talent is his eyesight. He never lost that and, even though his power has been eroded, he still makes solid contact. I don’t know how you differentiate this abilty to other hitters by using metrics?

~ It's no fun throwing fastballs to guys who can't hit them. The real challenge is getting them out on stuff they can hit ~ Sam McDowell

by elsandito on Jul 28, 2009 5:09 PM EDT reply actions

Lots of us could see this. The story’s been told before, Erik and I watched him go yard in mid-2007, and I immediately said, “I’m not convinced.” Something was wrong with his approach, or swing, or something that year.

In 2008, his numbers weren’t half as depressing as the sight of actually watching him ground out to 2B — “new Pronkville” we called it — over and over again.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on Jul 28, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Are we noticing that the moment that his hips or shoulders start to rotate that he’s doing it later in the ball’s delivery than other hitters? And that the plane of his swing when he commits is closer to the plane of the pitch than others? These are differences of hundredths of a second and fractions of inches.
Then we compare that to Gutierrez circa 2008, much earlier commitment and failure to identify the correct plane or movement on the ball.
Despite Pronk’s continued ability to identify pitches, during his physical problems, his hitting metrics suffered. So, that’s what we mean when we say that there’s a qualitative component in evaluating a player’s ability.

~ It's no fun throwing fastballs to guys who can't hit them. The real challenge is getting them out on stuff they can hit ~ Sam McDowell

by elsandito on Jul 28, 2009 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions

This reminds me of the conversation we had about Barry Bonds. When you watched him react to a pitch, it looked like he was playing slo pitch softball. His ability to find the ball and elevate it was amazing.

~ It's no fun throwing fastballs to guys who can't hit them. The real challenge is getting them out on stuff they can hit ~ Sam McDowell

by elsandito on Jul 28, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions

*when you watched him react to a pitch from the CF camera viewpoint

~ It's no fun throwing fastballs to guys who can't hit them. The real challenge is getting them out on stuff they can hit ~ Sam McDowell

by elsandito on Jul 28, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions

Bonds was the best I have ever seen do exactly this. Also! Couple that with a phenomenally compact swing and … wow, steroids or not, he was a hell of a hitter.

"Some days are better than others, but it's a long season."

— The Inestimable Eric Wedge

by emd2k3 on Jul 29, 2009 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions

That thought always makes me sad. He was already going to be a first ballot Hall of Famer. He would have been remembered as one of the great non-steroid guys in our generation. He was a tremendous all-around player in his youth. He was a spectacular hitter. And then he became a cartoon. It’s too bad.

Il faut d'abord durer.

by CU Adam on Jul 30, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions

Pretty easy contrast to draw, Pronk vs. Gutierrez batting eye.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on Jul 28, 2009 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions

True story.

-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jul 29, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions

And I saw him a few times in ‘08 and saw exactly the opposite of what you and sandy describe. To me in looked like he was guessing and lurching trying to get his bat into the hitting zone on time. He looked so lost I couldn’t figure out if he’d lost the power necessary to accelerate the bat into the zone, if he was having trouble identifying pitches and locations or what. To me he looked as bad as his numbers indicated.

Resident LGT results-oriented boob.

by mauichuck on Jul 30, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions

Weakness in the shoulder created issues in getting around on the fastball. Every other problem he had derived from this issue.

by TribeJay on Jul 30, 2009 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Ya see TJ he there was no indication – not even a hint – that he was injured or “weak” during the period I’m talking about. And if I rember correctly, the Tribe was denying that Hafner had any physical “issues” at the time. It all just seemed very strange to me.

Resident LGT results-oriented boob.

by mauichuck on Jul 31, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Obviously it was an issue in 2008…it’s pretty well documented. And even though he says it wasn’t painful in 2007, I’m convinced the weakness started then, based on how he performed after April.

You’re the one with the medical background, but wouldn’t it be more likely that the type of shoulder injury he had occurred gradually?

by TribeJay on Aug 1, 2009 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions

And I’ll add that I’ve always thought the injury was the only cause for his falling off a cliff. I was hopeful but not confident regarding his comeback this year, but only because I didn’t know if he could stay healthy. And that’s still probably a question.

by TribeJay on Aug 1, 2009 2:53 AM EDT up reply actions