Morning minor league thread (even more rumors!)
Columbus at Lehigh Valley, Chuck Lofgren on the mound. Later today in minor league action we get the Cleveland debuts of Conor Graham (Akron - 7:00pm) and Scott Barnes (Kinston - 7:05pm)
almost 3 years ago
APV
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I was born on the same day as Iron Eyes Cody. Not the exact same day, but you know.
"Some days are better than others, but it's a long season."
— The Inestimable Eric Wedge
He was famous for portraying Native Americans in Hollywood films, although his ancestry was discovered to be Italian.
He’s not even Native American! Has this already been discussed here?
by cleveland teamer on Jul 29, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
The first two. Impressive…or sad?
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 29, 2009 10:59 AM EDT reply actions
lehigh valley radio confirms Carrasco has been scratched.
i was vehemently against twitter up until a week ago, as it’s proving somewhat useful for the trade deadline week.
You are reading my signature.
Yeah, my Iranian friend said the same thing
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 29, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Kinda, but the speculation is just too out of control.
by supermarioelia on Jul 29, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
And politicians. Not trying to get into a politics discussion just pointing out its good for them too.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 29, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
I also think actors utilize it pretty well
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 29, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
Local newspapers and TV stations are also hopping on board to use it to try and steer audiences to their websites/broadcasts.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
That already happens when I clap my hands.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, the Phillies’ SBNation blog says that Lou Marson & Jason Donald are also out of the lineup.
*sigh*
Whenever I hear about Lofgren, I always think about this guy:
If he’d just change his name, he could go on our all-guitarist team, with Carlos Santana and Chris Perez.
by FredOx on Jul 29, 2009 11:02 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
We could just decide to call him Nils, regardless of what he thinks his name really is. Feel the power.
Can he do front-flips after striking someone out?
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
whoops, i’m dumb.
springsteen is good though, too.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Jul 29, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Brantley out for the 3rd straight game I think.
Can’t find anything saying why.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Not insinuating trade … just wondering what’s sore/hurt.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Gotcha. One would think the Dispatch beat writer might mention why the leadoff hitter is missing from action.
But I guess I’m asking too much.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
He did so well, they’ve decided to develop him in that role.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Rosenthal sez
The Mariners removed former first-round pick Jeff Clement from a Class AAA Tacoma game on Tuesday and later informed him that he is about to be traded, one major-league source told FOXSports.com.
Officials from the Indians and Rays, among the most active teams this week, said they’re not involved in the Clement talks. The Red Sox and Pirates have also scouted Tacoma recently, the source said, but it’s not clear if they are involved in the imminent trade.
Steel Nick
I would be irritated if Clement goes to the Sox. But then again I’d be irritated if anyone not named Lee and Vic goes to the sucks.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 29, 2009 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ll trade you a paper clip for that piece of gum.
by supermarioelia on Jul 29, 2009 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions
So it looks like Marte’s current OPS is higher than each of his OPS splits against lefties and righties. The stats are telling me that he struggles against balls coming out of the pitcher’s mouth.
by supermarioelia on Jul 29, 2009 11:13 AM EDT reply actions
This is so disturbing. I think the eyes make it horrific.
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 29, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
Huh? He’s at 0.786 against LHP and 1.016 against RHP, 0.962 overall. Unless you mean his stellar 1.417 major league OPS.
It was the major league stats I was looking at.
by supermarioelia on Jul 29, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
1000 against lefties
1333 against righties.
by supermarioelia on Jul 29, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m actually more engrossed by Fedor possibly signing with the UFC than I am about these (mythical) trades the Indians are involved in.
I have serious issues with this report.
An official of a team that had been speaking to Cleveland about Lee told ESPN.com Wednesday morning it was his impression that Lee was about to be traded elsewhere, and the Phillies’ discussions with Toronto about Roy Halladay have slowed to a trickle in the last 24 hours.
So:
1. Carrasco is not starting today
2. Someone who is from neither Cleveland nor Philadelphia thinks Cleveland is going to trade Lee soon.
3. Philly and Toronto don’t see eye to eye
Conclusion: “Phils about to acquire Lee”
Steel Nick
sounds to me like a deal is going to happen involving either cleveland or philly, but not both.
by clusterchuck on Jul 29, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Twitter is going batsh_t about “Cliff Lee traded to Phillies for Carrasco, Marson, and Donald.”
Stuart Dean
SPTBNLs?
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 29, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that’s better
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 29, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I think this is Phillies brinksmanship. They really want Doc, so they make a big show to Ricciardi of announcing the trade for Lee. I bet the Phils are using the Indians to get Toronto to give up Halladay without getting Drabek. I suspect Doc goes to Philadelphia when all is said and done. Shapiro ain’t going to get caught up in this game.
Ugh
For some reason I’m very opposed to a deal with the Phillies
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 29, 2009 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
especially if it does not involve drabek or happ
by clusterchuck on Jul 29, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Or Brown
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 29, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
just not a good matchup for the tribe. . . i prefer the rays, rangers, red sox, and dodgers, in that order, as trading partners
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Jul 29, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
News alert: I have been pulled from my softball team’s lineup tonight. It is not injury related.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 11:20 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Nice.
"Gravity is a harsh mistress." - The Tick
by woodsmeister on Jul 29, 2009 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Nick Weglarz led off with a four-pitch walk, and white-hot Carlos Santana lined a single to right to put two men on with nobody out. Beau Mills then put down a surprise bunt that Stanley threw away down the right field line to score Weglarz, and second baseman Shawn Roof (who was backing up the throw at first) continued the madness by sailing a throw to second into left field as Santana trotted home and Mills advanced to second. Hall would cement the inning three batters later with an RBI single to left, making it 5-2.
Impressive
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 29, 2009 11:21 AM EDT reply actions
Wrong – he’s trying to up his “grit” cred
Stuart Dean
by stuart dean on Jul 29, 2009 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Growing a beard is much easier than learning to bunt well.
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 29, 2009 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Nick!
I have two more episodes to go in season 2. I’m pretty sure I hate every female character in that show but Rita.
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
It’s not that they get their way, it’s how. Rita is a genuine, strong woman who’s had enough. I mean, Deb is OK, but she seriously drives me insane… she means well but ends up being a total bitch. LaGuerta and Lila are just insidious.
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 29, 2009 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh. Well, I think what I said still basically applies.
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 29, 2009 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Thank God I’m not the only one who thinks this. Although Deb and LaGuerta do slightly improve in Season 3.
by Pronktastic on Jul 29, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I couldn’t stand Lila, she was such a standard cut-out British villain. Not sure she was all that believeable
by Luis (Tribe Fan in London) on Jul 29, 2009 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree. She is like an imperial officer from star wars.
by Pronktastic on Jul 29, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
“It’s just the Rebels, sir… they’re here.” “My God, man! Do they want tea?” “No, I think they’re after something a bit more than that, sir. I don’t know what it is, but they’ve brought a flag.”
"Some days are better than others, but it's a long season."
— The Inestimable Eric Wedge
by emd2k3 on Jul 29, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Regularly scheduled off-days for Phillies prospects
Trade Cliff.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 29, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess the real question I have after the thoughtful replies is….who the heck are Marson and Donald?
a backup catcher and a utility infielder.
Okay, maybe a bit harsh, but certainly not players we want/need.
- and #4 prospects in the system per BA.
Marson is a catcher, Donald is a shortstop.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Donald’s stock has fallen this year — he had a .307/.391/.497 season last year in AA but has a .629 OPS in 51 AAA games in 2009.
*sigh*
Allegedly there’s more value in his glove …
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
espn is saying carrasco, knapp and trevor may
by clusterchuck on Jul 29, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
right, but no mention of marson or donald.
by clusterchuck on Jul 29, 2009 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I love how that ESPN article uses this point as proof:
Three Cleveland scouts — including the club’s director of player personnel, Steve Lubratich, were in Lehigh Valley to watch the Phillies’ Triple-A team play an 11 a.m. ET game.
Must be true! Why else would they be there?!
I hope they’re getting a good look at Andy Tracy, Paul Hoover, David Newhan and Terry Tiffee.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
OK, I don’t know anything about any of these Phillies prospects. Someone who knows me well should give tell me whether I would love or hate a potential trade.
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
Well eff. What good are you then?
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 29, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
The two A-ball pitchers (Knapp and May) are nice, but they’re in A ball. The others, meh.
Trade Cliff.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 29, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
And I believe Knapp has been shut down for a bit with “shoulder fatigue” which is never good.
*sigh*
While he was healthy he did K 111 in 85 IP at single-A. And he’s only 18 until the end of August.
*sigh*
While he was healthy
TINSTAPP
Stuart Dean
by stuart dean on Jul 29, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Terrible
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 29, 2009 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’ve been on the Trade Cliff bandwagon since before it left the station, but even I’d hold onto him at this point if that’s the return.
Trade Cliff.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 29, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
From MLBTR
“Stark hears from a source close to the Indians who denies that the team is close to making a major move.”
Stuart Dean
CLOSE
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 29, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
According to sources who have spoken with officials of both clubs, they’ve discussed a variety of packages for Lee. One potential package is believed to include Carrasco, a top position-player prospect yet to be determined and two hard-throwing Class A pitchers, Jason Knapp and Trevor May.
get Dominic Brown out of that and we have a deal
You know, looking at Carrasco’s numbers … most of the peripherals seem pretty in line with last season, and much nice as well.
He’s had a big spike in his home run rate this year.
I dunno if that’s a park factor, a league factor (IL vs. EL) … or what … but everything else lines up.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, if that’s the package then I’m fairly satisfied with it. If we could then trade Martinez for Buchholz, Bowden and another prospect or Wade Davis, Hellickson and Brignac, I’m content.
Does anyone have any info on Trevor May?
All I’ve been able to find is that he’s a big kid … 6’5" or so.
Fell to the Phils in the 4th round because he had signed a letter of intent, Phils went above slot to get him.
Other than that … seems like a young, hard thrower, fighting some command issues as he matures … which I don’t think is all that atypical.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
The “lives in Philly and has 6 more Phillies games to go to” part of me really wants to see Lee on the Phils, but I do hope the Tribe gets something worthwhile for him.
*sigh*
Fox reported that the Dodgers were going to make a “hard push” for Lee today.
Hopefully, Kershaw helps them push.
I’ll get out and push if it helps get him here.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9866498/MLB-trade-deadline-buzz:-Wednesday%27s-edition
Phils, Indians in discussions for Lee — 11:58 a.m.
The Phillies are in discussions with the Indians to obtain left-hander Cliff Lee and possibly another player for Class A right-hander Jason Knapp, Class AAA right-hander Carlos Carrasco, shortstop Jason Donald and catcher Lou Marson, according to a major-league source.
please no.
No way that deal is made.
Trade Cliff.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 29, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not really sure I understand the acquisition of a shortstop and a catcher … unless he’s planning to flip them too.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Constant focus on stockpiling skill position players.
Also … no more money to pay veteran guys to sit on the bench.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Yeah, I realized after thinking a bit that you’re probably looking at a MI of Asdrubal, Valbuena and Donald next season .. .with Donald serving as your utility guy.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Blech. That’d be a horrible deal. We already have Valbuena & Cabrera to man the MI for a while, what would we want with Donald?
*sigh*
i would think that shapiro would wait until after the rays game today to see if they’re buyers or sellers (provided that they are indeed interested in obtaining cliff)
by clusterchuck on Jul 29, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
This is the darkness before the dawn, people.
I’ll let GFP choose my avatar if this trade goes down.
by NickFantana on Jul 29, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t even be happy about it.
Trade Cliff.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 29, 2009 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
No one would be…..but I trust you to make the most humorous choice.
by NickFantana on Jul 29, 2009 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Further, there’s no way Knapp can be the centerpiece of this deal if he’s just been pulled from pitching because of shoulder soreness, right?
by NickFantana on Jul 29, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I’m looking at the Dodgers here to make a completely unnecessary trade and make us all go home happy.
Trade Cliff.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 29, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Love the indignant response. Perfect tone for this rumor.
Trade Cliff.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 29, 2009 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
An anonymous source has confirmed to me that Cleveland now feels the only organization with the prospects they would feel are necessary in a Cliff Lee trade is Cleveland. Apparently complicated four-team talks are underway between Cleveland, Akron, Kinston and Mahoning Valley which would end up with Lee becoming the immediate ace of the Scrappers. Contractual obligations are still being discussed.
by APV on Jul 29, 2009 12:36 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Source: #Pirates getting Jeff Clement from #Mariners. Other Seattle minor-leaguers involved. Could be for a P (Duke?) or a 3-team deal.
Ed Price again.
Snell would be an interesting Reyes-esque move, although certainly at a higher price tag salary-wise as he’s “earning” $3M this year, is guaranteed $4.25M next year with 2 club options for $6.75M and $9.25M in 2011 and 2012.
by The DiaTriber on Jul 29, 2009 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t the Pirates have a good catcher?
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 29, 2009 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Full deal:
Pirates trade Wilson and Ian Snell for Jeff Clement,Ronny Cedeno, Aaron Pribanic, Brett Lorin, Nathan Adcock
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I think this might be a nice pickup for the M’s … couple of the young arms look promising … but TINSTAAPP.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
They’ve upgraded big time defensively at shortstop … going from Betancourt to Wilson.
Call me crazy, but I think Snell could bounce back.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
But Wilson is not so good in the field that he makes up for his inability at the plate. He’s historically bad. Snell’s value is based on one very lucky year. From the prospects Lorin has very nice upside, we know about Clement and Pribanic has good peripherals. Pittsburgh just Shapiro’d the Mariners.
Well, that would be appropriate I suppose.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I have liked the trades the pirates have made this year.
by I'd give my legs for Wegz on Jul 29, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I totally agree with you. Instead of getting 1 guy that is valuable they get 3-4 guys that are barely valueable.
Yeah, my first reaction was that they should be; even though I have not heard of most of the guys in the deal, some of them are probably quite good.
Proud Fan of the Worst Baseball Team I've Ever Seen
someone made a good point. they didn’t have to trade Clement… why is he being dealt with other prospects for crap? could they be that high on Snell?
odd.
You are reading my signature.
Snell has been lights out in the IL. He ought to be, but the idea is that he went down there to work on getting himself back together. If he has, he’s a good buy,
"Gravity is a harsh mistress." - The Tick
by woodsmeister on Jul 29, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I also agree they should be furious. This is bad for them.
by NickFantana on Jul 29, 2009 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Are the Seattle prospects good? Because I like Snell and Wilson going to the mariners. Snell has dominated in AAA and should be a lot better with a good defense.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 29, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m with you … M’s love defense … and they’ve gone from a horrid defender to a pretty good one.
I, too, think Snell might have something left as a change of scenery guy in a big ballpark.
Clement and Cedeno are non-factors for me … it becomes whether those 3 young arms pan out.
I actually don’t hate this.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
If the Phillies can’t get Halladay or Lee, their next choice might be to strengthen their bullpen, and attempt to trade for Baltimore reliever George Sherrill, sources told ESPN The Magazine’s Buster Olney. The Phillies have had talks with Philadelphia about the left-hander, and the Orioles have been scouting Carrasco.
This was posted before jayson starks imploded the intranets with his report.
Posted by Rosenthal and Morosi:
the Blue Jays lose leverage if the Phillies acquire Cliff Lee. The Jays would then have to accept an offer from Boston or consider other, possibly inferior, proposals. The Yankees, Rangers and Dodgers are still “on the periphery” of the Halladay talks.
Boohoo Jays. Perhaps your asking was too high.
I remember when I thought Ricciardi was sharp…
Stuart Dean
by stuart dean on Jul 29, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Boo hoo the Blue Jays would have to accept Buccholz and Lars Anderson
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 29, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Rosenthal’s next post:
If Halladay’s arm falls off while pitching tonight, the Jays will not be able to get the same haul as if he wasn’t hurt
You think?
That’s like saying “If Victor’s head explodes, other teams may shy away from acquiring him.”
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh it was. I was just adding the sarcasm icing.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
per rotowire:
The Phillies have offered a package of players to the Indians for Lee, the Associated Press reports.
Spin:
With the Phillies pursuit of Roy Halladay hitting a snag due to the price tag, it appears they have turned their attention to Lee. Nothing is known about the offer except that top pitching prospect Kyle Drabek is not included in the deal. Lee would come much cheaper than Halladay, and would solidify a rotation in need of another starter after the loss of Brett Myers to hip surgery in June.
You are reading my signature.
screw this “much cheaper” crap. Somewhat cheaper — not “much cheaper”.
by Logodaedalus on Jul 29, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
In fact, when you take salary into account, I’m not even sure he should be cheaper at all.
by Logodaedalus on Jul 29, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ys-tradebuzz072909&prov=yhoo&type=lgns&expire=1
Phillies close to trading for Lee for Knapp, Carrasco and atleast 2 of Donald, Marson and Taylor.
I want more pitching!
i can only get on board with this deal if Martinez is traded to Tampa Bay or Boston in exchange for top of the line pitching prospects.
But isn’t CP Lee the big bullet, not Vic?
by The DiaTriber on Jul 29, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
the kitchens at burger king are full of can’t miss prospects
The Cleveland Indians: Minor League Farm Team Affiliate of the MLB
by HireRockyColavito on Jul 29, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
The rational side of me acknowledges that it will be next to impossible to reasonably expect to equal Lee’s production in next year’s rotation…but the irrational side of me loves the unknown potential of a bunch of prospects.
Why is that irrational? There’s no way we get anyone worth Lee’s production next year in any deal that’s been rumored (perhaps with the exception of Kershaw or Billingsley, which I don’t think will happen), so it’s all about the prospects and 2011 and beyond. We only have hope at this point.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Jul 29, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it is irrational because I think the Indians should be looking to maximize their chance of winning next year, with less attention to 2011 and beyond (I’d roughly peg it as 2:1, with emphasis on 2010 over 2011+).
Yes. I’ve always said that they need to get two near-ML-ready starters for Lee — one top notch, one a notch or two below that. No single guy is going to replace Lee’s production, but it’s possible that two guys together could come close.
by Logodaedalus on Jul 29, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly like that.
Or, to a lesser extent, Happ and Carrasco.
by Logodaedalus on Jul 29, 2009 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve generally assumed so. The latest PHI rumor, though, does not have two.
by Logodaedalus on Jul 29, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I like Carrasco, but I’d prefer him to be the second guy.
by Logodaedalus on Jul 29, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Seems like the way to maximize our chance of winning next year is to keep Lee and Martinez with their cheap contracts and tinker with the bullpen, a lot. If you deal either, I don’t see us being competitive next year.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Jul 29, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
so let me get this straight. we trade a cy young winner in sabathia to a team that was renting him for half a year and we get a top tier prospect in LaPorta. one year later we trade a cy young winner with a year left on his contract for some substantially lower level prospects. did i get that right? apparently the worst thing a tribe pitcher can do for the fans is win the cy young cause that means byebye. and why is it a faux paus to say dolan is cheap again?
The Cleveland Indians: Minor League Farm Team Affiliate of the MLB
by HireRockyColavito on Jul 29, 2009 1:11 PM EDT reply actions
what does this have to do with Dolan?
The market is tighter this year and CC was a better pitcher than Lee.
that was just a side question that i was wondering about
The Cleveland Indians: Minor League Farm Team Affiliate of the MLB
by HireRockyColavito on Jul 29, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s because Cheapiro doesn’t like to win…..maybe he’s a spy for the Yankees
by Nat on Jul 29, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Schmitty is gone, but we got Dickie Thon.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Lee may have won the Cy Young last year, but he was in AAA the year before that. He doesn’t have the track record of Sabathia, unfortunately. Also, this has nothing to do with saving money either this year or next year, it’s just about maximizing Lee’s value.
*sigh*
by zempf on Jul 29, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i dunno i’m not that hot on getting prospects for legit major league talent. i get that that’s the way the business is done nowadays but it just seems odd and not conducive to success. i understand that an enriched farm system is important but realistically how many of these guys are going to be truly productive major leaguers? this is how shapiro operates and it has resulted in 1 playoff appearance in about 7 years.
The Cleveland Indians: Minor League Farm Team Affiliate of the MLB
by HireRockyColavito on Jul 29, 2009 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
i am so sick of people bringing up that monumental fluke of a trade. the expos knew they were leaving montreal and were dumping salary at an incredible pace without regard for their ability to compete in the future
The Cleveland Indians: Minor League Farm Team Affiliate of the MLB
by HireRockyColavito on Jul 29, 2009 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
But it produced three legit major leaguers — All-Stars even — not just one.
Are you saying if not for the fluke, it produces nothing?
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
i get that it was a monumental success and shapiro was a genius for making it, but there is no reason to expect that we can get that same level of talent from a team like the phillies who are actually going to be in philadelphia next year
The Cleveland Indians: Minor League Farm Team Affiliate of the MLB
by HireRockyColavito on Jul 29, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
See also: Choo, Sizemore, Cabrera, Valbuena, Marte, Shoppach. That’s 2/3 of our current lineup. Not to mention other soon-to-be regulars: LaPorta, Santana, perhaps Brantley.
again i get it that u can get some great players in trades for prospects and i know that many all-time great players begin as lowly prospects. but with regards to this trade, i dont think the players that many think we may get have the same potential as a choo or a sizemore which is a shame because lee has one year left on his contract and to me it seems as if the team is giving up on contending next year if they trade him. if that’s the case, why would fans spend money to see the likes of carlos carrasco start in a season where we are very unlikely to contend?
The Cleveland Indians: Minor League Farm Team Affiliate of the MLB
by HireRockyColavito on Jul 29, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
So you just don’t like THESE prospects.
First,
i know that many all-time great players begin as lowly prospects
No. ALL great players begin as “lowly” prospects. The rare exception where you have a John Olerud that goes straight to the majors is not only once in a decade or so, but also even they were prosepcts in the amateur ranks.
Second, the fact that Lee has one year left on his deal and is at peak value is the very reason to trade him.
Third, the proposed trade is ok to disagree with if you want better prospects, but your first post was that you don’t like trading for prospects generally. And that is to misunderstand 2009 major league baseball.
i said all-time not all. but yea i get your point and i’m just really pissed that we are basically giving on next season by trading our only legit starter when we have him for another year. i don’t like trading for prospects in situations like this where we have a top tier player who we know we can’t resign and we ship him off for some players who may or may not give us a big return. but i do understand that trading for prospects is how most teams are built nowadays, but i dont have to like it because of the very high level of uncertainty that comes with it
The Cleveland Indians: Minor League Farm Team Affiliate of the MLB
by HireRockyColavito on Jul 29, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
no that is 2009 major league mid market baseball, until basball gets it’s head out of it’s ass that is the way it will alway be.
Fan in Texas
true statement
The Cleveland Indians: Minor League Farm Team Affiliate of the MLB
by HireRockyColavito on Jul 29, 2009 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
so let me get this straight. we trade a cy young winner in sabathia to a team that was renting him for half a year and we get a top tier prospect in LaPorta.
This is why the Phillies rumor smells of bullshit. It doesn’t make sense from a value perspective and the Indians still have a chance to flip Lee next year if they aren’t blown away this year. You’re telling me they couldn’t get a Carrasco type prospect for Lee at next year’s deadline?
I don’t see the point in keeping Victor if you trade Lee. Unless you intend on extending him in the off-season or think he is at a low value right now (possible).
This rumor appears to have too much smoke behind it to be completely dismissed.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
All the rumor says is that this is an offer, right? I haven’t read anything that says “The Indians are falling over themselves to accept an offer from the Phillies involving…”
Steel Nick
Very true … and there is talk that the Dodgers are getting back involved as well.
And that’s my secret hope is that Shapiro will say “not good enough” … and the talks will continue.
My point is … this rumor probably has a little more credibility to it than the random Seattle 3-way and Kershaw deals.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I haven’t had a random Seattle 3-way in years. Boom!
Lead singer and driver of the Winnebago.
by Fredward on Jul 29, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I tee it up, you knock it outta the park.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll take “Things Cliff Lee Cannot Say With Confidence” for $800, Alex.
You are reading my signature.
by rolub on Jul 29, 2009 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think it may actually be the opposite.
Regardless of how we feel — and regardless of how they feel — we have depth at C/1B, and our starter depth has a lot more quantity than quality.
We love Vic but need Cliff a lot more.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Apparently the Phillies’ Sat/Sunday starters have been switched to “TBA” even though it should be Moyer/Hamels.. and Cliff Lee’s next turn in the rotation is on Saturday. I report, you decide.
*sigh*
Fourth hand rumor via Twitter, “Ken Rosenthal reports the deal is Carlos Carrasco, Jason Knapp, Lou Marson and Jason Donald for Cliff Lee and one other.” — http://twitter.com/ToddZolecki/status/2913164155
*sigh*
My favorite tweet (castrovince):
Cliff Lee watching ESPN report about him possibly doing to Philly, with teammates looking on.
Unless it’s just going across the ticker at the bottom… Cliff Lee doesn’t read.
by gte619n on Jul 29, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
ESPN MLB front page talking biggest trading deadline prospect busts.
Agent M #1
Another Tribe player pictured but can’t place him
Front Page
Article
Len Barker perfect game attendee
That, my friend, is the immortal Alex Escobar.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe that’s why we’re not getting what we feel we should from lee; we’re insisting they take francisco
by clusterchuck on Jul 29, 2009 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I was gonna tweet this for the heck of it, but they won’t let me log in. I always have this problem.
Cliff Lee not in the Indians lineup today … because it’s not his day to pitch.
Proud Fan of the Worst Baseball Team I've Ever Seen
I would laugh if the “hacking” was a stupid co-worker playing what he thought was a joke.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not a huge Francisco fan either, but really you could do worse as a 4th outfielder. I mean, the Phillies keep sending Eric Bruntlett up there as their RH pinch-hitter, even Francisco can outdo him.
*sigh*
I just don’t see how this is the offer that blows them away. Maybe maybe maybe no other offers were that legitimate for Lee alone and they intend to keep Victor.
The inclusion of BenFran, while hilarious and wonderful, also makes me feel like this deal should look better.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Jul 29, 2009 1:35 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
My feeling exactly. There should be at least 2 more players coming back.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s our #2 starter going into next season
by APV on Jul 29, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
if it’s taylor, carrasco, knapp, and marson/donald, i’ll be ok with it. basically i hate this deal if it doesn’t include taylor.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Jul 29, 2009 1:39 PM EDT reply actions
What if Shap. is gonna turn around and flip Marsen and Donald to Boston with Vic for Buchholz, et.al.?
Railing against the sacrifice bunt since 2000.
i’m not very impressed. i wanted them to hold out for drabek. though am thankful we dumped francisco after his latest hot streak as well.
The deal is pending a review of medical records.
@castrovince: quick, kick benfran in the shin.
You are reading my signature.
It is possible that the Indians could send the Phillies money in the trade to cover part of Lee’s remaining salary — slightly less than $2 million this season, plus a $9 million club option for 2010.
THIS DEAL JUST KEEPS GETTING BETTER
Steel Nick
The deal, which does not include any cash, is pending a review of medical records.
Now it says this. I love how these articles are just posted with whatever speculation they feel like including, then updated as facts (?) trickle in.
by cleveland teamer on Jul 29, 2009 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
This is technically a game thread, right?
by Logodaedalus on Jul 29, 2009 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I actually don’t know anything about the Phillies system, so I am going to withhold an opinion.
by Roger Dorn on Jul 29, 2009 1:49 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, but that was last year. It means less, especially given his lackluster year at AAA after that.
I could see how this trade is to restock Columbus. They need some infielders with Barf struggling and Marte being moved to Cleveland. YAY ORGIZATIONAL FILLERS
That’s definitely what you want to get for Lee.
by Logodaedalus on Jul 29, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
hmm….I don’t know about his stuff, but Knapp strikes me as Adam Miller v2.0. Carrasco seems like Lee’s replacement in the rotation for next season. Donald would seem to be Jamey Carroll’s cheaper replacement. Marson is the one that confuses me. We currently have four major league ready catchers (Vic, Shop, Gim, Toregas) and our top positional prospect is no more than a year away and plays catcher. What do we do with Marson?
This deal feels to me like it’s put together in such a way to help Shapiro put together the cheapest 2010 roster together he can.
Donald will be the utility infielder.
Marson might share catching duties with Toregas or Gimenez, as Shoppach and his $2 million salary might be traded.
They serve as a bridge until Santana is ready (maybe he gets held in AAA until all the Super Two time is passed.)
Carrasco enters the rotation, Knapp is your long-term prospect.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Shut up about your stinkin’ market.
(Nothing personal — I’m a little emotional right now)
by Logodaedalus on Jul 29, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s unbelievably sad that we all hate this and the Phillies fans all love it.
Proud Fan of the Worst Baseball Team I've Ever Seen
PP: On the flip side, you weren’t as high on Jason Donald as others, and he got off to a real slow start in AAA before going down with an injury. Were scouts voicing any big concerns on him prior to the injury, or was it just a small sample size?
KG: Well, if anything, Donald was also more of a stats favorite than a scouting favorite, which is why I was never that high on him. Most saw him as more of a utility player, or maybe a second division starter, and his slow start certainly didn’t help him. I think one of the big indicators for his poor start is a sudden dramatic drop in plate discipline, which is a frequent indicator of a guy pressing.
From a Goldstein interview on a Phillies blog. On the other hand, Jason Donald is Law’s 48th overall prospect.
THIS IS ALL A GIANT HOAX; SHAP IS THEIR SOURCE
THIS IS ALL A GIANT HOAX; SHAP IS THEIR SOURCE
THIS IS ALL A GIANT HOAX; SHAP IS THEIR SOURCE
Proud Fan of the Worst Baseball Team I've Ever Seen
Maybe that’s it…. lowering expectations for us, so he can wow us with the deal he actually makes.
by Logodaedalus on Jul 29, 2009 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/10/28/648643/philadelphia-phillies-top
http://phuturephillies.com/2009/07/02/prospect-qa-with-kevin-goldstein-2/
http://phuturephillies.com/2009/04/28/a-quick-word-on-jason-knapp/
http://phuturephillies.com/2009/03/01/2131/
http://phuturephillies.com/2009/01/22/keith-law-ranks-phillies-system-11th/
http://phuturephillies.com/2008/12/22/baseball-prospectus-phillies-top-11/
Some resources for learning more about these dudes……who we, um, are NOT trading for.
You mean Jedd Toss.
"Some days are better than others, but it's a long season."
— The Inestimable Eric Wedge
I started drinking right after the Lee trade rumors started.
Either that, or I’m punch drunk.
by FallsTribeFan on Jul 29, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
the furniture rep who just finished the lunch presentation hasn’t heard about the deal.
by Brick. on Jul 29, 2009 2:01 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
This is what Ed Price has:
#Phillies “very” close to getting Cliff Lee from #Indians
Does not reference Rosenthal. Maybe it’s not done done for those prospects?
I thought he was sourcing Rosenthal.
This is the latest from Stark, he makes it sound like the prospects haven’t been totally finalized….
I’d be a lot happier with Carrasco, Knapp, and two other prospects that aren’t Donald and Marson.
@SI_JonHeyman: #phillies get lee, confirmed. good job by rosenthal. #indians get carrasco, marson, knapp and donald.
So what’s the deal with Twitter punctuation anyway?
by Logodaedalus on Jul 29, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been trying to decode this for a week. now. I think when there’s a #, it’s like tagging your update. @ is who you’re speaking to? and RT means you are copy/pasting someone else’s tweet.
Steel Nick
- is a hashtag. A way to categorize a tweet so people can find it, and Twitter can figure out what’s trending up. @ is a way of showing replies. Twitter automatically tags these and you can see anyone replying to you. RT is a retweet. All of these started with users, only later added officially by Twitter.
(and he’s taken the question mark off the post headline….GASP)
by Logodaedalus on Jul 29, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, at least we will finally get to see Cliff Lee pitch for in a playoff game.
If the World Series ends up being Phils v Yanks and both Lee and Sabathia are Game 1 starters, I will cry real man tears.
by Toxicadam on Jul 29, 2009 2:19 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Stark calls Marson the “likely heir apparent” to V-Mart. WTF is that crap?
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
This trade is garbage
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 29, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
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