couldn’t we just pay for that? I mean, I know the Indians are in some financial trouble as well, but not trading Victor means paying him the rest of the year anyway.

Seriously. Can we hold like a Spanish rock concert to raise the money to cover this? We could title it “No a Los Diablos del Baahston”.

Bleh, Kazmir has lost both control and velocity in the last few years. That’s not , how you say, good?

wait…this is from yesterday…

/fail

He said it again this morning, but still kept the possibility open of a Martinez deal.

I love these type of trade deadline statements.

“The don’t think they’re gonna do anything, but if they do, I’m still kind of right because I said think.”

Yeah, what’s confusing in all of these reports in LaRoche being moved somewhere … and that team sending prospects to both Cleveland and Boston.

First off, how many teams actually want LaRoche?

Secondly, what kind of a haul are you actually getting for that guy?

Something seems out of place here.

I also want more than Buchholz for Martinez – Buchholz might do if it was just a 2-month rental of Martinez, but Boston would be getting him for 1.5 seasons (BIG difference), and as good as Buchholz is being proclaimed and the no-hitter he threw (against a decent, but hardly offensive imposing Orioles team – and wasn’t that at Fenway Park, where they had lost something like 11 in a row until just recently?), there are enough concerns about Buchholz (like why is Boston “playing around” with John Smoltz and Brad Penny (neither of whom are what they once were) in their rotation instead of inserting Buchholz into the rotation – they didn’t “play around” with Lester like that, and it’s not like Buchholz has much more to prove in AAA, and by all accounts, his stuff is considerably better than both Smoltz’s and Penny’s, so what gives?)

Therefore, for an All-Star catcher and a career .290 or so hitter in Victor for 1.5 seasons, there needs to be more than Buchholz or otherwise, I try to find another trade partner (TB, maybe San Francisco, although that’s probably a long shot).

And that’s different then any other day at 4’oclock how?

I follow this rule that I will never get a dog again because I can’t stand the feeling I get when they die. Maybe I should try following this rule in baseball and not become attached to individual players, but just focus on loving the Tribe as a team.

Ha….maybe the idiot Pirates want him back.

BUCK HOLES THREW A NO-HITTER HE’S A GAWWWWWDDDDD

I think it’s interesting in the context of Shapiro’s comments earlier this week on the over-valuation of prospects. There was a nifty conversation last night on Smoke Signals (with Paul, Jay & Castrovice) about what can realistically be expected from players these days. The more I think about it, the more I agree that the fundamentals of baseball economics has changed in the last two years. Reasonable salaries are not long reasonable salaries. The inexpense of pre-arb players (and prospects) has skyrocketed through the roof while the value of players such as Lee and VMart have dropped (or Halladay). It’s almost as if the vast majority of teams have now adopted the Oakland/Cleveland/Minnesota model. When that happens, the system doesn’t work as easily as it has in the past (see Blake for Santana, etc.). This might actually be beneficial for the Tribe if they’re getting in just under the wire with some of these trade via fire-sale. This opportunity to stock up on loads of prospects might not exist come the offseason.

Keeping that in mind and buying in to the rebuilding that must now occur – the Tribe might want to try and complete a fire sale while they can. If that means packaging “extras” like Marson and Donald with Vic to get something more (or with Peralta???) then do it. I honestly don’t care for Buchholz that much but would rather get ‘burned’ by getting some of the less touted prospects in the BoSox system. If we’re going to buy into this rebuild now – let’s buy into it. This may be the best chance we have to stock up on our already revamped farm system. Hopefully today is going to be an interesting day.

I was saying similar to your first paragraph in my post above – why is Boston playing around with Smoltz and Penny, neither of whom are close to their best selves, and by and large, neither having the stuff of Buchholz, yet they’re not inserting him into their rotation like they did with Lester, and most reports seem to indicate that Buchholz has comparable stuff to Lester’s, if not slightly better? What gives?

To me, that sort of indicates a “red flag” that there is something about Buchholz that Boston doesn’t want to let out, but knows that there is something about Buchholz that is holding him back from being the great prospect that most are making him out to be (and I don’t think it’s the small sample size at the ML level – what’s the harm for them to insert him into their 5th spot and run with him – why did they even need Smoltz or Penny – Buchholz was on the cusp toward the end of last season, yet they didn’t give him a legitimate shot to make the rotation – again, that raises a “red flag” to me).

Recall that former noted Red Sox prospect Craig Hansen has not been all that great with Pittsburgh after they acquired him in the Jason Bay deal, though admittedly, he was out for most of the season and only came back recently, but recall how great Hansen was going to be, yet he’s not as close as they made him out to be. Is this the same case with Buchholz as well? Those questions alone should necessitate getting more than Buchholz for 1.5 seasons of Victor in my opinion.

So what do they do with LaRoche if they get Gonzalez?

Also! Mike Lowell is apparently done.

This is true.

I would actually be really happy to hold onto Victor

Depending on what we’d get for him, I’d be happy either way.

Not me.

Regarding TB, I think this was asked above, but what if we gave them extra cash to help them take Victor – wouldn’t that be possible, instead of involving a 3rd team? That might be easier to accomplish than to involve a 3rd team with Kazmir, and we might get a better package if we’re willing to forward some cash (and what’s the difference if we pay for Victor in 2010 or we pay for another team to pay him in 2010 and get a better prospect or two for him?)

the Sox will do anything to please their fans

Which is why they let Pedro and Lowe walk after 2004.

I don’t think you’d even find a trade partner unless you pick up the rest of contract. Hafner has become unmovable.

We would have to eat so much of his contract it wouldn’t be worth it. We are stuck with him for the duration, I am afraid.

He’s not going anywhere right now, nor is Grady. Peralta is likely 90% staying (there’s a slim chance, but I highly doubt it – he’s likely trade bait sometime in 2010, especially if Marte proves he can consistently hit ML pitching, as I think the Indians will move him back to 3B and have him there until Chisenhall is ready, which probably won’t be for another 1.5-2 years minimum).

Everyone thinks we should trade Hafner, but no one would want him

I’d like to point out,

You don’t trade players, you trade contracts.

Until the general economy recovers to some degree, bringing the player salary market back with it, Hafner cannot be traded. Even if he drove in 60 runs by the break next year, he’d still have more than $30 million left on a 2.5-year deal.

Ya know you could package Hafner with VMart for a dozen hotdogs and a keg a beer – say Sam Adams – and we’d make out like Paris Hilton.

I would think that is one thing (fan response) he is weighing but what about the injury risk. I wonder what they thinking in regard to that. If injury risk was a factor in the Lee deal, you would think it would be a factor here as well.

I’m a big baseball fan but I only really follow the big league club. I don’t know a lot about prospects in the farm system.

How long do you guys think it will be before we see some of these new guys and have a shot at the division again? I mean the division is certainly not unwinable. None of the teams are terribly strong.

or go on the DL because of injury. Not saying he should be traded for peanuts, but if you can get a reasonable deal, I think you have to pull the trigger.

I think our expectation have been wrong coming into the deadline week. Most of us though guys like Neftali Feliz, Derek Holland, Clay Buchholz, Wade Davis and Kayle Drabek could be had, but apparently not.

Also, I hope Shapiro doesn’t let that fanbase influence him too much. There are still people out there who agree with the trades being made and it’s ultimately his job to keep the big picture in mind. Besides, isn’t it better to just rip the band-aid quickly instead of peeling away it very slowly?

I don’t know if that recent swoon is going to affect his trade value that much – Victor has proven he can hit consistently throughout his career; unless Victor has suddenly forgotten how to hit or lost his hitting skill at 30 (doubtful), I doubt teams are THAT concerned about his recent swoon where they wouldn’t give up something of value for him for 1.5 seasons.

As for Shapiro being concerned about the fanbase, they’re already annoyed about trading Lee and they weren’t going to come out in 2010 even if Lee and Martinez were still here, so why should Shapiro let the fanbase influence his decisions – he shouldn’t, as the fans are already annoyed and will stay away in 2010 even if Victor remains. Shapiro needs to trade Victor if the right deal comes along that makes sense to him and the FO/scouts, even if there is no “known name” to fans (and most fans aren’t going to recognize that many names from the Minors anyway).

Besides that, if the Indians aren’t going to resign Victor beyond 2010, the Indians’ FO will still have to deal with the backlash at some point, so why fear of getting that backlash now if it improves the team for 2010 and beyond. Shapiro needs to do what is best for the organization, not for the fans, the great majority of them not understanding and/or caring about the Minors and not really understanding the business side of baseball.

I had this discussion with a co-worker yesterday, do you think there a segment of the population that liked/accepted the Lee trade but would be outraged by a Vic trade? My thought is that if you didn’t like the Lee trade, you’re not going to like any Vic trade.

I actually was the one who mentioned Shapiro’s concern, but in the next breath I made clear that while he’s concerned, he has never let it affect any significant decision the club has made.

It doesn’t mean it couldn’t fall apart and they come back to the Indians to get Martinez – after all, it sounded like the Padres would only trade Gonzalez for a specific package – with those standards, there’s still a chance it could fall apart.

Meanwhile, we should be working with TB and SF (long-shot, probably) to see if we can complete our own deal, without having to wait on Boston until the last minute, but let them know that we are working on our end – if they choose to come back and really want Victor, maybe they’d be more willing to give up what we want, or closer to what we want at that point.

/replyfail

It’s been behind home plate for the last week … very odd timing and titling to say the least.

Its friday, what the hell, go ahead an kick him in the nuts. Sounds like he deserves it.

Answer is simple:

“Well, the Indians have about $85 million to spend on players and signing bonuses, and the Red Sox have about $250 million to spend. The Indians are not signing J.D. Drew, extending Josh Beckett, and not paying Lugo’s and Renteria’s salary simultaneously even though neither of them is any good. When a key player or two does badly for the Indians, there isn’t money available to paper it over with another trade or contract, it just sinks the team.”

PLEase1

ys plz

Finally!

Bout time.

We should at least get something for him, right??!

YEEEEEEEEEEE

Do we know how is contract works yet if traded?

I’m scanning the Florida independent leagues to see who we could get.

Jamey Newberg of the Newberg Report I assume. Longtime Rangers fan/blogger.

that’s a ridiculous package.

It’s really somewhat frustrating to see the Rangers getting back into this now. I liked them the best as a match for Lee.

I think the Indians have left Victor-for-Clay on the table, take it or leave it, see if you can find a better deal, we’ll talk at 3:30.

The Tigers still have prospects?