Official: Martinez to Red Sox for 3 Minor League Pitchers
by afh4 on Jul 31, 2009 4:07 PM EDT
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According to multiple reports, Boston has completed a deal for All-Star catcher Victor Martinez, sending three young pitchers -- Justin Masterson, Nick Hagadone and Bryan Price -- to the Cleveland Indians.
Castrovince says it's official here.
It's all over but the crying.
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Well time for the jersey question – Other than Grady, what named Jersey would get for someone? I mean who?
isn’t Choo going to be keeping an eye on Kim Jong-Il for the next two years?
by NatiTribeFan on Jul 31, 2009 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a chance, unless Dear Leader tries to take third on a single to RF.
by FredOx on Jul 31, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 21 recs
recrecrec
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, think I might get a Choo jersey
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll be rocking my VMart jersey tomorrow, I know that.
by DisplacedBuckeye on Jul 31, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d still wear a Hafner jersey.
Dawgs By Nature - Covering the Cleveland Browns on SB Nation.
by Chris Pokorny on Jul 31, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Me too, occasionally. I ended up really not liking the Grady jersey I bought.
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions
next purchase is a Martinez jersey. no doubt about it
"It’s tough," Martinez said. "This is my house. This is my home."
We'll miss you, Vic
by BLAZER_FAN_199 on Jul 31, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
This obviously sucks. But since the Indians already have Victor’s replacement in house, I’m much less upset about this trade than the Cliff Lee trade.
I’m glad one major league ready pitcher is coming over, but I hate trading for A ball pitching prospects (I understand it, just hate it).
remember – we THINK we have Victor’s replacement in house …
by NatiTribeFan on Jul 31, 2009 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Vic was the player SAlomar was supposed to be and Santana will be the player Martinez was supposed to be. Supposedly, the only thing that needs work is his English…
Stuart Dean
Abraxas Santana or Supernatural Santana?
by NatiTribeFan on Jul 31, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
i understand what you’re saying from a baseball standpoint, but personally I’m much more sad about losing Victor than Cliff. Cliff was a great pitcher and I enjoyed watching him the past two years, but Victor Martinez was the Indians over the last six years. I can’t bear to see him in a Red Sox uniform. I know this is a fanboy statement, but I wanted to see Victor spend his whole career in an Indians uniform.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 31, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Andrew,
Last year you did an awesome photo essay for CC. I put Victor in that class of guys who deserve the same. I hope you’ll conjure up something, because Vic is absolutely everything we should want in a ballplayer. I understand the necessity for the trade, but this stings.
More than anything, this kind of week makes 2007 sting even more.
Yep. My biggest regret (regret is not the right word, but whatever) as a fan is that Vic didn’t get a ring with the 2007 team. That and the 2009 Cavs… boy.
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe when we win a ring with the guys we traded him for the team will be classy and give him a ring, too
by APV on Jul 31, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It’s the least they could do after all the hugs.
by Seattle Tribe Fan on Jul 31, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions
not to mention the personalized handshakes/high fives
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 31, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh god, I’m gonna lose it…
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
OT. Simon Birch is freaking awful. A Prayer for Owen Meany, the book which it so poorly is based on that John Irving sued to keep his name off the movie, is one of the great pieces of 20th century literature.
Il faut d'abord durer.
Maybe, I was younger when I saw it and just remembered howsadmanipulative it was.
Fixed.
Usually, an incredible waste of pixels.
I’ve taken a break from emotional wrenchers and followed the crowd toward non-fiction or really light fiction. Am currently reading “The Right Stuff” and thinking about becoming a fighter pilot. Just finished “Master and Commander” (considered captaining old old wooden ship) and Jack Weatherford’s “Ghengis Khan” (yeah, considered becoming greatest warrior of all time).
by joeee on Jul 31, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I loved the movie version of “The Right Stuff” – I need to check that book out. Tom Wolfe wrote it, right?
The book is more like a novella, but a very cool read.
by JulioBernazard on Jul 31, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
If you read the book, you’ll realize how inadequate the movie was. It’s a great book, and about much more than astronauts.
Right. John Glenn says that the movie is like “Laurel and Hardy Go to Space.”
by ken from alexandria on Jul 31, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
probably irving’s best…which is saying something b/c that guy can write.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 31, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
From ESPN
Martinez, who had spent his whole career with Cleveland, fought back tears after being told he’d been traded. He sat in front of his locker, hugging son Victor Jr. — earlier in the day, the young boy asked his dad, “Are we still an Indian?”
“It’s tough,” Martinez said. “This is my house. This is my home.”
The quote from his son killed me.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 31, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
i like to think of myself as a strong man, and i’ve reminisced about Victor’s time here, looked at the pictures, and everything.
This is what made the waterworks creep out a bit.
You are reading my signature.
We asked Shapiro to seriously reconsider his approach and this was it. He sold off whatever he had to acquire as many upside pitchers as he could get for it.
featuring the curses of Bobby Bragan and Rocky Colavito
No more Victor pointing at the sky after a win. I’ll miss that most of all.
If I have to see him do it in Boston…
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
DAMMIT MAN
more tears
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Reghi currently talking about Wood. Good point: what the heck is he still doing on the team??? If we were really SO desperate to get rid of Victor- signed through 2010- why not trade Wood first- making more money over the next two years, wroth a whole lot less, and not nearly as devastating PR-wise.
Agreed- loved him as cavs playbyplay- hate him editorializing about football and especially baseball.
Yeah I was pissed when the Cavs got rid of him as play-by-play guy.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 31, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
wow that reds trade was really bad.
by I'd give my legs for Wegz on Jul 31, 2009 4:22 PM EDT reply actions
I’m not doubting this, but with all of the talk that the Indians couldn’t hold onto Lee because of the need to shed payroll, I’m sure the Indians could have sold low on Wood.
Other teams are doubtful to take a one-year hit as closer with injury history and give him 10 mil for one year.
Except for Cleveland, I suppose.
Usually, an incredible waste of pixels.
Like I said, I’m not doubting this. But don’t you think Shapiro could have found a take for Wood if he really wanted to?
I’m guessing yes. Maybe the payroll issue isn’t as large as we think. Or maybe he’s trying to wait until Wood’s value goes up a notch.
I doubt Shapiro wants to give up Wood for virtually nothing, especially after management paid a pretty good amount of money to get him here.
It’ almost the same with Peralta – probably the hope with both him (and partly dependent on whether Marte can stay and contribute at the ML level) and Wood is that they both do well at the beginning of the 2010 season, enough so where there will be more demand for both of them, especially since both are signed through 2011. That’s what I am thinking in regards to why both Peralta and Wood are here, for now.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Or, could actually be part of a contending 2011 squad. It’s not inconceivable.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Jul 31, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Right. Wood can still be here then, and as we know you can never have too many good relievers.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 31, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
why do you say that, I and most of the people on this site was happy when we signed him for 10 million a yr.
Fan in Texas
well considering no one wants him and his contract its really not that surprising.
by I'd give my legs for Wegz on Jul 31, 2009 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve decided to roll with it. Good riddance.
We have better things to spend $7M on next than a 31 year old that is blocking one of our best prospects.
Think he’s being sarcastic
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
The talk radio lines are going to explode.
I live in NYC now but my Dad backin OH said people were furious about Cliff.
I understand why they are doing what they are doing…I don’t really like it but I understand…
But I can see why people are so angry. They feel like everytime the Tribe gets a good player they just trade them away and then they are forced to watch the Yanks and Red Sox win every year.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
I also understand why people would be pissed. Most fans do not follow the team as closely as those on this site. Of course they are going to be mad.
No, most fans don’t understand the economics of baseball.
by FredOx on Jul 31, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Right, most fans don’t understand it and most sportswriters don’t explain it very well. So of course they are mad.
+1 – that’s exactly why most Indians’ fans will be made.
I’m watching Fox 8 WJW-TV out of Cleveland and see Victor’s emotional response to the trade – it’s quite sad, even for those who thought that trading Victor was the right move.
Let’s just hope all of these moves work out quickly for the Indians and the Indians get back to contending, and hopefully, winning at least 1 WS – if they don’t, the fanbase for the Indians will hold it against the organization for a long time to come, I think even more so than the Colon, Thome, and even Sabathia trades.
Ironically, the graphic on Fox 8 says “Regressive Field,” which I think someone here brought up yesterday.
They also mentioned the lack of Clay Buchholz – I am surprised that Buchholz was not included in this deal – either the Indians aren’t as enamored with Buchholz as the Red Sox and East Coast Media are, or they felt that they’d get more value and potential if they didn’t take Buchholz (maybe they’d only get him and no one else).
Let’s just hope it works out for the best for the Indians, and for Victor – thank you Victor for all of the great moments and best of luck to you in the future (even if that means that the Red Sox win a ring – at least Victor would get one too). Victor will certainly be missed (probably even moreso than Lee, though I think the fans warmed up to him in the end after his disastrous 2007 season).
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
But anyone who actually thinks that hasn’t been paying attention for the last seven years. This was a very good team that just traded two guys heading into their 30’s. It’s not the end of the world.
You have to think of the average guy though. The average guy looks at it and sees a team that made the playoffs one time and choked when they could have gone to the WS and who underachieved a lot.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Jul 31, 2009 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Then the average guy needs to do some reading. That isn’t my fault.
by Brad D on Jul 31, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
the average fan is not an idiot. It is arrogant to suggest as such. If people are going to fork over their money for tickets and parking and merch. they would like to do it for a team that makes the playoffs more than once in 10 years.
People are allowed to feel upset about fan favorites leaving town. They are also allowed to believe that rebuilding every few years isn’t what they want to pay for.
You can have your opinion, that is fine. To call others idiots because they do not agree with your philosophy is small minded.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Jul 31, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I agree with the sentiment. The problem is not the fans, nor the individual owners, it’s the system.
Usually, an incredible waste of pixels.
+1 – the system is definitely at the root of the problem, and while revenue sharing helps to a small degree, there is no “real” penalty for going over the “limit” – yes, there’s a luxury tax, but teams like the Yankees and Red Sox just scoff at that like, “yeah, whatever – that’s no big deal to us,” and continue spending mountains of money on their teams, mountains we could never match, even if we had a “richer” owner – the economic climate in Cleveland will likely never match Boston or NY – even in the mid to late-90s, it was still a reach for us to match those two cities, and those mid to late 90s days are gone, so we will always be at a disadvantage to those two teams financially without a real hard salary cap like in the NFL and NBA, and without a major lockdown strike that likely lasts years, that likely will never change, sorry to say.
Shapiro is progressing in the only way that markets like ours can proceed, unless you want to experience an 8-10 year drought (we still could, but the more high-quality prospects you get closer to the Majors, the less likely that will hopefully happen, especially as compared to the 2 draft picks you might get for each of Martinez and Lee if they both had left after 2010, those 4 picks maybe contributing something around 2015 or so, if we’re lucky, and our past drafting history of even the early 2000s has not been good, with little to nothing coming from those drafts in terms of quality ML talent, so while these moves are very unpopular, in terms of the organization’s goal of competing regularly for the postseason, these moves are probably the best long term for the organization, especially when the Dolans declared they would not spend significant resources this offseason – what real chance did we have to compete in 2010 with Lee and Martinez – virtually none in my opinion, sorry to say).
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
I’d be happy with real revenue sharing. As in, share all the money from TV deals and merchandising equally. The TV contract is where the Yankees get all that money, after all.
i believe the yankees’ radio deal is as big, if not bigger, than the STO deal for the tribe
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 31, 2009 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
They’re not allowed to think that the owner’s going to spend more money than the club brings in. They’re not allowed to ignore the fact that the Yankees and Red Sox are sitting on a huge pile of cash from TV contracts, and that baseball is the only sport without some semblance of revenue sharing. They’re not allowed to say the 2007 team choked. If they do those things, then I’m sorry, but they’re idiots.
The team has underachieved. It’s had historically bad bullpens. There’s a billion words here reiterating that point. But trading veterans in the last years of their deals for prospects that will help you contend for years to come is the right thing to do. If fans don’t get that, they need to read and think and understand.
Fans bemoaned the Blake trade. That was stupid. They bemoaned the Garko trade. Stupid. DeRosa, Colon, Broussard too.
Paying 20 bucks for a ticket doesn’t change the inequities in the system, or make it possible for the team to just pony the bucks up to keep their stars.
by FredOx on Jul 31, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
True, but it is more of a media failure than their own failure. And you can’t expect every fan to know about the prospects the Tribe gets back in trades.
I’m shocked that it’s even debateable.
“I think the Padres are the best team in baseball.”
“I think caucasians are more intelligent than Asians.”
“I think we should nuke (insert foreign country).”
“I think education is a bad thing.”
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
Absence of opinion isn’t opinion of absence…
Wait, that’s not it.
by Logodaedalus on Jul 31, 2009 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
This was avery goodteam that just traded two guys heading into their 30’s
fixed…although, it’s still not the end of the world.
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 31, 2009 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
No who’s gonna make custom handshakes for everyone?
Is there anyone left that would want a custom handshake?
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
True story. I actually have custom handshakes with both of my sons. Thanks Vic.
Raise a glass lads (and lasses).
To Victor.
-Erik
by drerikbrady on Jul 31, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
/raises glass
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
To Victor!
"It’s tough," Martinez said. "This is my house. This is my home."
We'll miss you, Vic
by BLAZER_FAN_199 on Jul 31, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont know if anybody has checked the wiki page for Larry Dolan … but it is classic right now. here is a segment in case it gets erased.
Larry Dolan has made the Cleveland Indians the first MLB franchise to trade the reigning Cy Young Award winner in back-to-back seasons, causing the once proud “Jacobs Field” to resemble its’ empty, echoing predecessor, Municipal Stadium. Cleveland Indians fans have changed alliances to numerous National League teams as of July 30 2009.
After the the trading of several fan-favorite players on the Cleveland Indians, Larry is reportedly looking for other ways to raise revenue, while continuing to slash payroll for the players. Such options have been rumored are trading away of all-star catcher Victor Martinez, selling the naming rights to the team, Selling 8 oz. cups of water to fans for $5, and replacing all future bobble-head promotions with screws in order to indicate his true feelings towards the fans.
Also, reported that the name of the stadium where the team plays will now be named “Regressive Field”. Larry once traded away a quarter for two dimes, and thought he was on the winning end of the deal. Dolan was lynched by Cleveland fans on Aug. 1, 2009.
[edit]
I guess people are angry
by jsneides on Jul 31, 2009 4:26 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Yeah, I saw that last night. Waiting for Next Year had a story on it so I checked it out. It’s been changed several times over the past two days.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Jul 31, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Eh, dolts
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
They should be. They got rid of a relief pitcher (hopefully a start for the Tribe) and 2 guys far away from making an impact. They should be pumped.
Lyle Lovett sang it, but Tom Rush wrote it!
by CaptainPenny on Aug 1, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
no, he was picked around round 46. we didn’t want to pay him, so he returned to washington for his junior year (I think jr year)
I think it was Round 44 (could be incorrect) and he was a draft-eligible sophomore. At that time, there were several concerns about his ability to stay healthy because he did have an unorthodox delivery (that’s why he wasn’t drafted until that late – realize that we weren’t the only team to pass on him time and again at that time).
I think when he returned to Washington for his junior year, his delivery was cleaned up a little bit more; add in the fact that he had an even better year, and that’s why he was taken #10 overall by the Giants the following Draft (2006, I think).
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
this is correct. we were “encouraged” not to pay him a large bonus, for fear of upending the whole system.
plus…seriously? we’re pissed about not signing a 46th rounder?
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 31, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
How can Red Sox fans NOT be excited about this trade?
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 31, 2009 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
WOW
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha, this quote from Peavy’s agent is pretty amusing:
“Frankly I am flabbergasted that the White Sox would want to make this deal with him in this physical condition,” Axelrod said.
Seriously, what a giant piece of horse ass of a trade. I can’t believe this. I actually thought V-Mart would stick around. This was a guy who wanted to retire as an Indian. I’m so upset. I was okay with dealing Garko, Francisco, DeRosa and even Lee, but this puts me over the top.
I’m so angry I could just go out and kick a rock.
by Cleveland Indians on Jul 31, 2009 4:31 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Alright so I guess we’re not trading Jhonny now, but Marte rakes for 2 months, he goes to 3rd and we trade Jhonny to the Jays to play short/3rd there. That I can dig.
That’s likely the Indians’ thinking – the Indians are hoping Marte pans out in his trial this season so that they can feel confident committing him to 3B for a few seasons until Chisenhall is ready, which will open up the door to trade Peralta, and if Peralta can rebound and be more consistent the rest of 2009 and whatever part of 2010 he’s here (he could be traded in the offseason, but I’m thinking he might be more of a deadline deal during the 2010 season), then they might get more for Peralta than they probably would get right now (recall that Peralta is signed through the 2011 season).
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
until Chisenhall is ready
Let’s just play this year by year, k?
by supermarioelia on Jul 31, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
This is probably just an emotional over reaction.
I saw the logic of “firing the manager doesn’t fix anything” before, but I can’t stand to even think about Wedge now.
The fact that he is still here despite all of his line-up idiocy, when we’ve has to sell of our 2 of our 3 best players enrages me.I could stomach his still being here before the fire sale, but not now.
I really cannot see Wedge being here beyond this year; there was certainly a decent to solid argument to fire him after 2008; not that the fans’ reaction should matter in running the organization, but if Wedge is fired after this season, and perhaps if Shapiro moves up to Ex. VP (or whatever the position is that he’s rumored to be in line for), that might appease some fans to stay with this team (though they might also say, “Why didn’t we do THAT – fire Wedge and move/fire Shapiro from the GM position – BEFORE trading Lee and Victor, et al.”)
I think someone else here implied or stated that Wedge is not as good with young players as he’s made out to be – after all, the Indians still have not won a championship after 7 seasons of his being at the helm, weren’t in contention in 5 of the 7 seasons, and didn’t make the postseason in 6 of the 7 seasons – at some point, Wedge has to be removed, and someone else (Lovullo?!) has to take over, never mind that Lovullo now has more experience and knowledge with working with the new batch of prospects coming up (as do Scott Radinsky and Jon Nunnally – I wouldn’t be surprised if most or all of the coaching staff is removed, including Willis, especially Sheldon, and quite possibly Hernandez as well, maybe Skinner and Rivera too).
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
zzz
Of course people are going to be upset. They watched CC leave last year and then Lee and now Martinez leave this year. They don’t follow the team like people on this site, they aren’t going to be able to get excited about A-ball pitching prospects. The media does a horrible job explaining it and most people won’t take the time to dig deeper into it.
I wonder what Huntington is thinking right now? “Once the student, now the master!”?
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Jul 31, 2009 4:35 PM EDT reply actions
Perhaps I don’t get your comment.
But in spite of how much I can’t stand today’s events, I think the Indians are closer to winning than the Pirates.
He thinks Huntington “outshapiroed” Shapiro at the deadline, probably.
Usually, an incredible waste of pixels.
Pretty much.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Jul 31, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope Victor hates Boston, and openly speaks out about his douchey new teammates.
[deleted, profanity]
His special handshake for Pedroia could be to poke him in the eye?
by peter m on Jul 31, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I don’t think his arms reach that low.
ZING!
Usually, an incredible waste of pixels.
by emd2k3 on Jul 31, 2009 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
A knee to the groin.
On second thought, Victor’s probably too tall for this. A knee to the neck.
Il faut d'abord durer.
by CU Adam on Jul 31, 2009 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If he can drop kick Papelbon during his “I’m-a-douchebag” dance, the trade would be well worth it.
by Cleveland Indians on Jul 31, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Victor’s personality doesn’t seem to fit in well with that team – let’s just hope Victor is not there long term – I’m not sure I can stomach seeing Victor in a Red Sox uniform for too long – ugh!
Logically, trading Victor might make sense; emotionally, it does not – that’s the conflict that Indians fans have to deal with. For those who have a better understanding of the economics and the Minor Leagues, it will likely be easier than for those with lesser knowledge than both, but it will likely still be difficult for a time, since Victor was the heart and soul of this team since 2004, 5.5 seasons.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
i could see us trying to trade for Victor to bring him back, and Boston says no just to be douche bags.
"It’s tough," Martinez said. "This is my house. This is my home."
We'll miss you, Vic
by BLAZER_FAN_199 on Jul 31, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
In an attempt to save the world, indians.com has taken down its message boards for “maintenance”
I love that move.
I’m not sure about that being “weird” – coincidental probably, being that they’re probably afraid that the message boards will burn up their servers since many Indians fans will have some comments to post, I’m sure.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Well, it is odd for the Tribe to try to mute criticism by shutting their fingers firmly in their ears and humming LA LA LA I can’t heaaar you. That’s the figurative equivalent to shutting down the servers. Coincidental? Obviously not. But your last straw grasp makes a little sense, in that they probably would rather not have to deal with a server crash. Of course, since MLB Advanced Media takes care of the servers, that’s probably not an issue. That brings us back to excuse “A”, weird.
I updated the minor league pitching piece with Hagadone, Price, and the 2007 seasons from Chris Perez and Justin Masterson
by APV on Jul 31, 2009 4:42 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
did anyone read this?
Castro:
This is a very, very emotional goodbye for Victor. He sat in front of his locker, with his son, Victor Jose, in his lap and sobbed after getting the news. He spoke to reporters with black sunglasses hiding his red eyes.
“This is my house,” he said. “I’m leaving my house.”
I will cry now.
We’re not going to win the karma battle in all of this
by supermarioelia on Jul 31, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’ve held it together until now, but I’m tearing up at this.
by Logodaedalus on Jul 31, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Not unexpected. This guy made it clear he always wanted to stay with Cleveland and retire here. Such, SUCH A DOUCHEBAG MOVE. Seriously. Unreal.
by Cleveland Indians on Jul 31, 2009 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m glad you’re not a general manager.
I HATE the idea of trading Vic, but it’s all part of the game.
Usually, an incredible waste of pixels.
Why is trading a fan favorite part of the game? Isn’t the budget bolstered by keeping the fan favorites around? Isn’t the best strategy to overpay for the most important players and fill is the rest?
No. Every player you fill in will be overpaid by definition, and this leaves no room to overpay anyone else — not even a beloved and valuable player like our Victor. The strategy is simply to acquire as many big league-caliber talents as possible and develop them effectively.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Jul 31, 2009 6:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Oddly, as unenlightened as this position sounds, many teams do employ it, and end up with results not too far off from the Indians from 2003 through 2009.
You, Kevin V, sportsfan…I’m takin names.
by supermarioelia on Jul 31, 2009 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I read this as “flogging their asses”.
That’ll teach them.
by supermarioelia on Jul 31, 2009 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m okay with venting, but some of what’s been posted is just … kind of pointless negativism that doesn’t further discussion.
Usually, an incredible waste of pixels.
Right. This trade may turn out to be great for us, even win us a WS at some point. But you’ve gotta be heartless not to react to that quote with a lot of sadness. If you didn’t people were going to be upset, you’re just being unrealistic. That doesn’t make us cleveland.com.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Jul 31, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Careful Cleveland Indians, youa ren’t allowd to be upset or angry here. If you don’t like wha tthe Tribe does the regulars make sarcatic comments and tell you to go play in traffic.
D-Bowe, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram and Turtle. Four Chiefs WRers. 4 Pro Bowlers.
by Patrick Allen on Jul 31, 2009 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Come on, Pat, you know it’s not like that. It’s just like me and Brad preach at FTS… be upset, shae your opinion all you want, but don’t be a moron about it.
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
“This game is rigged, man.” – Preston “Bodie” Broadus to Detective Jimmy McNulty
I propose giving Victor a 2012 World Series ring.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 31, 2009 4:49 PM EDT reply actions
the king is the king and the pawns stay pawns …
by NatiTribeFan on Jul 31, 2009 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions
You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!
I think that better suits out mood right now …
by NatiTribeFan on Jul 31, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone up for taking up a collection to take out a full page add in both the Boston Globe and the PD thanking Vic for the great years and loyalty?
Of course I suggest this without knowing how much a full page add costs.
I just wanted to believe.
Yeah, we need more idiots around here.
by supermarioelia on Jul 31, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Me too. I’d pay good money.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Jul 31, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve got 4:48 has the press conference started?
The MLB.com media player is giving me a blank screen
No audio here, is it still on?
Len Barker perfect game attendee
by SeattleVinny on Jul 31, 2009 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Considering he’s starting tonight….yeah I think we’re good.
by supermarioelia on Jul 31, 2009 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
does vic get a nice write-up like sabathia did last year when he was traded?
i hope so
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Jul 31, 2009 4:59 PM EDT reply actions
yeah
i’m asking whether jay or somebody else is going to write something similar to the sabathia piece
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Jul 31, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
From the espn report:
Martinez, who had spent his whole career with Cleveland, fought back tears after being told he’d been traded. He sat in front of his locker, hugging son Victor Jr. — earlier in the day, the young boy asked his dad, “Are we still an Indian?”
“It’s tough,” Martinez said. “This is my house. This is my home.”
www.lowbrowsophisticate.com
Yep. Burned into my brain.
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2009 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, not lying. This, in all seriousness, just made me cry
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2009 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
one of the saddest things i’ve ever read.
"It’s tough," Martinez said. "This is my house. This is my home."
We'll miss you, Vic
by BLAZER_FAN_199 on Jul 31, 2009 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
random tweets:
Jilly1975: @Jerry_Remy Any insight on Masterson for Martinez? Very surprised it wasn’t Buchholz. Sad 2 c him go. Worried about Tek’s playing time now.
softballbabe46: are you fucken kidding me we traded Adam LaRoche, WTF he was amazing so far why the fuck would you do that??? and we get Victor Martinez =/
Wow
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Jul 31, 2009 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Alright. I’ll be honest, I emotionally accepted Victor getting traded a few days ago. I knew it’d happen, and I figured it was easier to just accept it. And even the evil of Boston, I accepted.
Thus, none of the quotes have really hit me. They’re sad, but they aren’t the knife digging in me. But that second tweet is catastrophically moronic. Mind-blowingly stupid. To sit here and realize how little those fucking fans will appreciate what they got, and who they got, kills me.
by JRontherim on Jul 31, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hey what’s up LGT! Long time! Why the long fa… oh. Oh god.
by Fire Slider on Jul 31, 2009 5:10 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I hate this. I’m leaving to get shitcanned and pass out in an alley.
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
This is the worst day of my year, hands down.
I propose giving Victor a 2012 World Series ring.
by Gradyforpresident on Jul 31, 2009 5:12 PM EDT reply actions
I was too young to appreciate the Colon trade, which Dad describes as his worst day as Indians fan, including the 60s 70s and 80s.
I guess this is my equivalent.
Haha you’re owning facebook right now. And phil ain’t happy.
by supermarioelia on Jul 31, 2009 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Anybody but the red sox and this wouldn’t hurt half as bad
by Matt in LA on Jul 31, 2009 5:12 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
It’ll be interesting to see who fills the clubhouse leadership void left by all these guys and Vic in particular…
I think this is potentially a chance for Jhonny to step into more of a leadership role as well. I watched the team warming up and stretching for a week down at Goodyear, and Jhonny regularly had a crowd (of predominately Latino players) around him. I’m assuming during the season Victor took that spot, though.
Neat observation. It will be interesting to see what happens in the clubhouse — maybe it will be Peralta. He sure is one of the vets here.
Grady strikes me as someone who is naturally quiet but could grow into a more active leadership role. I noticed he was quoted in the ESPN write-up:
“When you don’t perform or have good results, things are going to happen like this,” Indians center fielder Grady Sizemore said. “It’s start from scratch now.”
I also seem to remember reading about him working with some of the other outfielders (like Trevor Crowe) back in spring training. I wonder if he won’t become more vocal now.
Grady’s not really a leader though, is he? I mean, he’s pretty quiet, from what I hear….
by Logodaedalus on Jul 31, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Leader by example, sure, but he’s not like Victor.
by Logodaedalus on Jul 31, 2009 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I am fascinated by this aspect actually. After listening to Shapiro, it became clear, Victor was a once in a generation guy in terms of personality and leadership and selfless team devotion. I’m afraid we will never fully replace this. On the 25 man I don’t see many people close to this. Shapiro thinks Santana can learn thsi trait. I think Cabrera has potential in this area. Crowe is very fiery, but I’m not sure he is talented enough.
Even if the Indians achieve greatness in the next couple years, it will be in spite of Victor’s absence, not because there we found a replacement.
This is obviously a tough day, but you know what would make it tougher? If we were obviously hosed on the deal…and I really don’t think we were. Frankly, I am surprised at what we got in return given that it was basically a given that Victor was going to get traded somewhere.
I feel the same way. I’m expecting that Masterson will stay in the bullpen for the remainder of the season and then be stretched out for 2010. What do you think?
God, this is worse than when Lebron left the Cavs in 2010
by Roger Dorn on Jul 31, 2009 5:22 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
perhaps not the best time to bring that one up…
"It’s tough," Martinez said. "This is my house. This is my home."
We'll miss you, Vic
by BLAZER_FAN_199 on Jul 31, 2009 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I laughed. But reading everyone else’s responses I’m beginning to feel more and more like a cold, soulless monster.
Seriously, don’t do that. Not funny at all.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 31, 2009 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Is there some chance he plays out the next year+ and tries to come back? I mean, he’d be on the downside, willing to take less for the “hometown”, and could have ideas about sticking around to coach. Why not pursue that? Is there some reason this is implausible? Who’s offering a 32 year old catcher big bucks?
i keep trying to convince myself that the redsox won’t exercise his 2010 option and we’ll bring him back.
I figure he threatens not to play for them if they exercise the option and then seeks a deal with the Indians for the rest of this career
I’m all for that
"It’s tough," Martinez said. "This is my house. This is my home."
We'll miss you, Vic
by BLAZER_FAN_199 on Jul 31, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Well this practically means Choo is our best player and leader in practically every offensive category. Pretty amazing how much Choo has grown in such a short time.
by Cleveland Indians on Jul 31, 2009 5:28 PM EDT reply actions
Can someone make a list of all the players we’ve traded for this year already? I think this would lighten the mood.
I was just thinking about that.
Chris Perez
Jess Todd
Conner Graham
Scott Barnes
Justin Masterson
Nick Hadagone
Bryan Price
Carlos Carrasco
Lou Marson
Jason Donald
Jason Knapp
Am I missing someone?
Alright, this isn’t worth it’s own space or anything, so why not here:
Do you think, in a little retrospect, Meloan wanted out? I’m not complaining about losing Meloan, don’t take it for that. I didn’t expect much of anything from him anyway. But Abreu? I’m already (and have been) prepared to DFA him. The Meloan move just seemed really forced, like something happened.
I think it’s interesting to think about but I also think it’s interesting to think about why he was included in the Dodgers trade.
It seems now that Meloan was broken last year and, as much as I love Santana, if Coletti was in the mood to add some one of his alleged value, maybe Shapiro should have looked elsewhere. Or maybe Shapiro knew he was broken but couldn’t get Coletti to give him anyone else.
Honestly the way Meloan and Zackson panned out is the only thing that’s making me uncomfortable with getting all of these pitching prospects. There’s a fair chance none of them pan out.
by supermarioelia on Jul 31, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Let’s hope the list of failures doesn’t get any longer.
by supermarioelia on Jul 31, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t remember anyone expecting much beyond a depth option from Zachson ath the time of the trade.
by TheVanillaGorilla on Jul 31, 2009 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Chris Perez
Conor Graham
Scott Barnes
Jess Todd
Jason Knapp
Carlos Carrasco
Lou Marson
Jason Donald
Justin Masterson
Nick Hagadorn
Bryan Price
Winston Abreu
This is awesome. Do we have enough space in the minors?
by supermarioelia on Jul 31, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah it really does…we can stick these players in those grounded planes until they’re ready to make the jump.
by supermarioelia on Jul 31, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Victor seems like such a personality opposite for Boston.
He’s cool and collected..Boston is fucking nuts, if I do say so myself.
Clone Grady 25 times and we will win the World Serious in 2040
by biscuitsandgrady on Jul 31, 2009 5:28 PM EDT reply actions
I don’t think the team is nuts, though. Guys like Varitek and Lowell are pretty solid veteran leaders.
oh no, i didn’t mean it like that, lol I love the Red Sox, one of my favorite teams to follow. I should have said buy “nuts” they have dynamic personalities on and off the field, and are very exciting to watch and root for … Victor is sort of like the calm before the storm. :D
Clone Grady 25 times and we will win the World Serious in 2040
by biscuitsandgrady on Jul 31, 2009 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s more the guys like Beckett, Pedroia, and even Youkilis (remember the incident with Manny regarding “showing more emotion”) that make bandg think that.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Kevin Youkilis? you mean, Kevin Useless….
"It’s tough," Martinez said. "This is my house. This is my home."
We'll miss you, Vic
by BLAZER_FAN_199 on Jul 31, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
It has to be weird for a guy like Pronk to know the only reason he is still around is because no one would consider taking his contract. He has to feel a bit awkward.
I don’t see where Pronk was in the same boat as Lee and Victor – they were only signed through 2010; Hafner is signed through 2012 – the Indians had no real reason to trade him now (not to mention they likely wouldn’t get much for him, not like they would after 2006, for instance).
I think the Indians’ thinking is that Sizemore and Hafner, along with Westbrook and Carmona, will lead the “new” Indians (Choo, Cabrera, Valbuena, Toregas, Gimenez, Marte, LaPorta, Brantley, Rondon, Todd, Perez, and even possibly Santana, Weglarz, Mills, Gomez, etc.) into the period of 2011 and even 2012 when the Indians are expected to contend again.
It wouldn’t totally surprise me, IF the Indians are in contention by that point, to have Sizemore and Hafner play out their contracts and to take the draft picks they net (provided we can’t sign either or both), as the Indians will likely be hopeful that they will be back in contention AND that the farm system will be strong through and through, thereby allowing those two to walk away and wait for the resulting draft picks to develop – that’s what I am thinking regarding Hafner and Sizemore. They’re more the connection with this current group of Indians to the new Indians here or on the near horizon – the so-called “veteran leadership” that many talk about; the Indians are expecting Hafner and Sizemore to lead the offense and Carmona and Westbrook to lead the pitching.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
I wonder if Grady will step up and be the voice/leader of the team.
It’s always the quiet ones that sometimes make the most noise.
Clone Grady 25 times and we will win the World Serious in 2040
by biscuitsandgrady on Jul 31, 2009 5:29 PM EDT reply actions
I believe the definition of quiet is a failure to make noise. I think.
by supermarioelia on Jul 31, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions
i like that better than my own statement. and i agree with you 100%.
Grady needs to be a little bit more aggressive.
Clone Grady 25 times and we will win the World Serious in 2040
by biscuitsandgrady on Jul 31, 2009 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe he will spend a lot of time clapping with one hand.
by Logodaedalus on Jul 31, 2009 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think the sappy win one for the gipper stuff works in the pros, so this will just be a dead 2 months. If we can start the year alright next year, somebody will speak up and lead.
I think the team for the rest of 2009 will just try to gel as a unit and find their identity and hope to carry that into 2010 and beyond. Hopefully, Grady, Travis, and Peralta, along with Westbrook and even Carmona (the “old” guard) will start to find those leadership qualities that Victor showed more of and help lead the way for the “young” guard.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
That’s probably the case – I presume that it’s Shoppach/Gimenez behind the plate, although it’s possible that maybe the Indians will make a corresponding move to allow Toregas or Marson up here – it seemed that they wanted to use Gimenez as a super-utility guy, especially in the OF – plus, if you don’t play Gimenez semi-regularly in the OF, Crowe likely will be out there everyday (though we need to find out what he can do sometime, and this is as good of a time as any), so I’m guessing there might be another move (maybe someone in the bullpen – Veras, Gosling, Abreu, etc.) to allow Toregas/Marson up here and also allow Masterson to stay up here as well.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
I have this goal to win Mega millions and buy the Cleveland Indians for Lets Go Tribe!
WHO WANTS IN :D
Clone Grady 25 times and we will win the World Serious in 2040
by biscuitsandgrady on Jul 31, 2009 5:33 PM EDT reply actions
This is more unrealistic than my dream to be Henry Rowangartner.
by supermarioelia on Jul 31, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
ahh..wishful thinking i know :/ lol
Clone Grady 25 times and we will win the World Serious in 2040
by biscuitsandgrady on Jul 31, 2009 5:36 PM EDT reply actions
i’m really having trouble with this one. belle didn’t bother me, not manny or thome, not colon. cc didn’t bother me. neither did lee. this one really is a punch in the gut.
omar didn’t bother me either. i really can’t think of someone else at all. robbie alomar might be a very distant second.
Thome is my #2. Sandy a distant 3rd, but he was close to washed up so that was purely emotional- Maybe CC is up there too.
Manny I forgave quickly for just being dumb. There was no emotional attachment to Belle. Vizquel was past his prime too, it just made sense to let him go. CC was gone and we knew it for the better part of 2 years. I hated Cliff Lee for at least as long as I liked him.
Vic hurts so much deeper. He didn’t choose it. It’s hard to say the Indians were forced to do it because he was so cheap next year- there was a real chance he was going to stay.
Omar was on the downside of his career, so it didn’t bother me that much. Certainly not as much as this.
11. Please don’t call Abreu a prospect. There are a number of reasons not to, but the main one is he is 32 years old.
Granted, Abreu is not a prospect, but he does have an arm, and in the Indians’ eyes, he had more ability/potential than John Meloan, hard as that might be to believe on the surface.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
I’ll accept he was a possible gem, with 13.8K/9 in the minors. But he is also 32 years old. That was my point.
I understand your point; just that the Indians seen some value in him (why else would they trade a younger pitcher for him – that virtually never happens with the Indians, so they must see some future in him, I would think; otherwise, you’d think you’d stick with Meloan and hope he finds his dominant form from his Dodger days – at age 24(?), that would seem more likely than Abreu turning into a gem).
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
but he does have an arm
likely TWO, as it happens… so, there’s that
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 31, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m happy to see the Tigers and White Sox send a bunch of prospects out of the AL Central
by APV on Jul 31, 2009 5:39 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah but where do the Tigers keep getting theirs from? I thought they ran out of prospects last year?
by supermarioelia on Jul 31, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s probably the main reason the White Sox targeted Peavy (currently on the DL) rather than Halladay; I would think with the prospects the White Sox gave up to SD, Toronto would have AT LEAST listened, if not bit.
Though maybe Halladay didn’t want to go to Chicago, but then again, he might have reconsidered, since Chicago is in the hunt and Toronto is not.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
wonder what he got out of it
"It’s tough," Martinez said. "This is my house. This is my home."
We'll miss you, Vic
by BLAZER_FAN_199 on Jul 31, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Joe Sheehan on the Tribe moves:
setting aside Price and Knapp, I see five guys who could comprise 20% of the 2011 roster and total something like 18-20 WARP, for $2.2 million. That works for me. They’ll contend in 2011—they might even be the favorite depending on what the White Sox do over the next 18 months.
The team’s he’s picked to finish first in the AL Central have gone on to have bad to awful seasons for the past several years.
How much different have his predictions been from others in the media who think they use a little sabermetrics?
http://vegaswatch.net/2008/09/evaluating-april-mlb-predictions-2008.html
kissing a dead Joe Sheehan I would not like
by Logodaedalus on Jul 31, 2009 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Joe Sheehan might like kissing the dead
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 31, 2009 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Neither the Dead nor Kiss like Joe Sheehan.
by Logodaedalus on Jul 31, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Get used to this – embace it even – cuz this is who we are. A mid to small market club owned by a guy with limited financial resources in the midst of a recession. We all saw this coming so why the drama?
BTW, I’ll be impressed with all of this, " I wanted to end my career as an Indian" when Martinez signs with us in 2011 for less money than the Sawx offer.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
by mauichuck on Jul 31, 2009 5:45 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
BTW, I’ll be impressed with all of this, " I wanted to end my career as an Indian" when Martinez signs with us in 2011 for less money than the Sawx offer.
i think that would be a shot to Boston’s superiority complex. maybe they would lighten up a little.
"It’s tough," Martinez said. "This is my house. This is my home."
We'll miss you, Vic
by BLAZER_FAN_199 on Jul 31, 2009 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Martinez also said that "he thought he would wear 1 uniform throughout his career " – that certainly won’t happen now.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Chuck, you may be jaded by dozens of seasons gone by. But even you have to admit this one hurts a little more. Honestly, I’d like you to tell me a tougher day to be an Indians fan. Victor Martinez is a once in a decade type leader and personality. Don’t try to trivialize that.
I’d like you to tell me a tougher day to be an Indians fan
The day Frank Lane traded Rocky Colavito for Harvey Kuenn. Team leader, team icon, best player on the team for a guy on the downside of his career. Bad baseball trade, bad trade all around.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
that would just be Shapiro’s excuse for sending Fausto back to the minors for having control issues.
"It’s tough," Martinez said. "This is my house. This is my home."
We'll miss you, Vic
by BLAZER_FAN_199 on Jul 31, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
if you would have told me last april that on trade deadline day someone would say; “I was hoping that would happen. I’m ready for Wyatt.” i might just have quit on baseball altogether.
by Brick. on Jul 31, 2009 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks for the confirmation – I thought he might be on the way up.
Question – is Masterson being sent down to AAA or is there a corresponding move (removing a bullpen pitcher, perhaps?)
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
The Indians will have to make a roster move tomorrow to get Masterson on the big league club. Initially, he’ll be in the bullpen, but the Indians will stretch him out to transition to the rotation. No exact timetable on that transition, but Masterson will be in the rotation this season.
http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/archives/2009/07/martinez_to_the_red_sox.html
Thanks for the info. – greatly appreciated!
I forgot about Ohka, he’s another possible option, though he’s been halfway decent, and arguably better than Veras, Gosling, and Abreu (I know it’s “apples and oranges” comparing relievers to starters, but still, Ohka seems to have been more consistent in his role than the other three have been in theirs).
Hasn’t Ohka been a reliever in the past as well? Perhaps he moves into the bullpen and maybe becomes a long reliever/spot starter – you could probably do worse, as he has experience and he’s relatively cheap as well? Just a thought.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Huff could begin the season in the rotation with Carrasco waiting first in line in Columbus…. but essentially yes. Then after those six, you have Lewis, and Rondón. Missing anyone?
by Logodaedalus on Jul 31, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Yup. It’s really not bad. Things that are individually fairly likely to go wrong:
-Lewis injury
-Laffey injury
-Fausto still hasn’t figured it out
-Huff still not mature
-Carrasco has a rocky rookie year a la Huff this year
-Someone else gets injured
Seems like we could absorb any two of those (although Fausto still being ineffective might count as two by itself), and maybe three, depending when they happen and how severe the injuries, and still be looking pretty good (as long as there aren’t too many things not on that list that go wrong).
by Logodaedalus on Jul 31, 2009 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, and if I had the information I had then now, I’d like it again. Just because you were optimistic about something and turned out to be wrong about the result doesn’t mean you were wrong to be optimistic.
by Logodaedalus on Jul 31, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that’s not irrational or anything, but it’s not the only reasonable conclusion.
I mean, look at the things that went wrong this year:
-Carmona comically ineffective
-Reyes season-ending injury
-Lewis season-ending injury
-Laffey injured during a key stretch
Then there were things that could have gone better:
-Huff performing somewhat below expectations
-Sowers performing somewhat below expectations
The only things that went better than expected were:
-Lee (though we still didn’t win many of his starts)
-Pavano
And that’s just the starting pitching. The bullpen is another whole can of worms.
It wouldn’t really be reasonable to expect things to turn out that badly again if you were to do it all over. I’m just saying that you don’t want to be too quick to adjust your expectations based on a single season sample.
by Logodaedalus on Jul 31, 2009 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
and still be looking pretty good
a relative term if ever i saw…
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 31, 2009 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Considering the strength of the offense and the weakness of the division, I honestly believe it.
by Logodaedalus on Jul 31, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
the weakness of the division leaves us “in it” at all times…which begs the question, when we talk about being “in contention”, what do we mean? we might contend in the central next year, but we’re not, say, title contenders.
though, i guess contending in the central might be enough to bring the people out (and if that fails, maybe bring back the birds)
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 31, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
The playoffs are a crapshoot. Contending in the division is at least 90% of it.
by Logodaedalus on Jul 31, 2009 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Strongly agree. Of course you’d like to be the stronger team going into the playoffs, but there’s rarely a huge difference between the best and worst playoff teams. I think the only important is not to be 8th seed, as it were, but we weren’t that in 2007 and wouldn’t have been in 2005 had we made it.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
“I don’t care”- the phrase that will dominate indians baseball for the next 2 years
The Cleveland Indians: Minor League Farm Team Affiliate of the MLB
by HireRockyColavito on Jul 31, 2009 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
“I don’t care” – the phrase that runs through my head for everyone of your posts
by Nat on Jul 31, 2009 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’d put our rotation candidates as:
Westbrook
Carmona
Carrasco
Huff
Masterson
Laffey
SLewis
Sowers
Rondon
Sowers would have to start the year in the bullpen though, no? Not that that means he wouldn’t be a starting candidate, but it complicates things some.
by Logodaedalus on Jul 31, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
He could fit in a spot starter/long reliever role, since he seems to be able to handle a lineup 1-2 times through, but then struggles the third time around, although he seemed to be making some progress on that end, so I suspect he’ll get the rest of this year to prove that he can handle a lineup three times through as you expect a starter to do to convince the Indians that he should factor long term into the rotation and not the bullpen.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
watching NESN pregame coverage…Varitek’s comments were not overly ecstatic. Masterson seemed psyched that the Red Sox were getting Vic. Hmm…
That seemed to be his initial statement…then he sort of modified it to say he was excited to be traded for a guy like Vic.
Maybe Masterson is more enthused to be getting out of Boston and finally having a legitimate chance to be more of a focal point – it seemed he was overlooked and not used as often. Or perhaps he wants to start, something the Red Sox didn’t seem eager to do, but I don’t think he got THAT much work out of the bullpen either, not as compared to Delcarmen, etc.
Additionally, Varitek probably wouldn’t be thrilled from an individual standpoint because the Red Sox just got a younger catcher who is probably at least Varitek’s equal defensively (Varitek has really declined in recent years defensively) and who is more consistent offensively (I’m amazed Varitek has bounced back as much offensively, but he is several years older than Victor), so perhaps that’s why Varitek is not “enthused” with the trade.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Maybe Masterson is more enthused to be getting out of Boston and finally having a legitimate chance to be more of a focal point – it seemed he was overlooked and not used as often
I don’t think so. He seemed to be saying, “This is awesome for us – we got Victor Martinez!” And then realizing he was no longer on that team.
It just seems odd that Masterson would have that ecstatic reaction for the Red Sox before thinking that he’s moving on. I would think with most players, the first reaction would be, “Hey, I’ve been traded,” then think, “Well, at least I was traded for an All-Star,” much like LaPorta mentioned last year when he was traded for Sabathia.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Admittedly, he was being interviewed by NESN. He may have just been aware enough to respond appropriately to the hometown crowd.
Good point – that’s possible too.
Still, I’d think he would be excited to get a fresh start – he seemd to be doing that “go to the bullpen, back to the rotation, back to the bullpen” thing throughout much of his tenure in Boston (even he was used in the rotation before Buchholz – is Buchholz really all that he is cracked up to be?) After transitioning him to the rotation here, he might stick there for a while. Only time will.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Outside of the world series losses in 1995 and 1997, the event that shall not be named in 2007, and omar being traded, this has got to be one of the saddest days in indians history.
The Cleveland Indians: Minor League Farm Team Affiliate of the MLB
by HireRockyColavito on Jul 31, 2009 6:06 PM EDT reply actions
I think that is true for most Indians fans, mostly because Victor connected with Indians fans and the organization, along with the fact that he said he wanted to stay here AND he was breaking down when he found out about the trade.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Omar wasn’t traded. Well, he was, to the Mariners, but that was rescinded.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 31, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
We’re the only team in the majors without an all star on the roster.
This is Victor's home. Victor Jose, you too.
I dont need three catcher and if you trade VMART let Kelly play everyday and see what happens he might hit 20 HR who knows probably not but… you dont need 3 catchers
If you’re talking about Gimenez, keep in mind that Gimenez is more than just a catcher (anyone else amazed at how well he moves in the OF and jumps at the wall for starting his career as a catcher?) and will likely play the OF more often than catching.
If that is the case, Wedge and the FO probably want to have a 3rd option behind the plate who is not an emergency option, and if both Gimenez and Shoppach are playing on a regular basis, there is that possibility (slim or not) that both could be injured and knocked out of the game – then what? Who is the emergency catcher now (Garko is gone)?
That’s why Toregas is up, and he arguably deserved the promotion anyway (he’s hitting not far under .300, he is an excellent defensive catcher, as he can at least rival Shoppach, and he’s not that young, so now’s the time to find out what Toregas is all about).
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
what’s the deal with the 40-man roster now, how many spots are left, and how many do we need to protect some of guys in the minors?
Difficult question to answer, especially because we’ll likely see more players gone in August, but there’s a pretty good group of players that are eligible for the rule 5 draft.
It’s going to take awhile to sort it out. Probably need to go into the LGT war room for a couple of days.
I love the idea of Ryan, Jay, Adam, and Andrew huddled together in front of charts, a few laptops, and a map of Progressive Field.
Yep, it calls to mind a couple of scenes from the Clooney / Pitt Ocean’s Eleven.
by Seattle Tribe Fan on Jul 31, 2009 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
The only players I see gone from August are Carroll and Pavano – it’s not likely that anyone would block trades of those two, so I don’t expect to see any more “significant” trades, like say for Peralta or Wood – that likely won’t happen until the offseason at the earliest, and quite possibly, not until this time next season.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
so who do we cheer for in the playoffs now…red sux cause of vmart “shudder”, phillies cause of lee and benfran, or do we switch the basketball and football?
The Cleveland Indians: Minor League Farm Team Affiliate of the MLB
by HireRockyColavito on Jul 31, 2009 6:21 PM EDT reply actions
I’m rooting for the Phillies, cuz that’s who I root for when the Indians are out of it anyway. But especially with Lee.
I want Victor to do well, but I can’t root for the Red Sox, except when they play the Yankees. So… I hope he kills NY every time they play.
by Logodaedalus on Jul 31, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s probably “may the best team win,” but certainly I’ll be keeping an eye out for Lee/Francisco (PHI), Martinez (BOS), Betancourt (COL), Garko (SF), and DeRosa (STL).
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
The FO doesn’t appreciate the human element at all. They look at these guys as numbers. But without Trot, no playoffs even though the guys were mostly the same. And now this— a team without leaders will always under-achieve, regardless of talent level, and regardless of what the numbers would seem to dictate.
even if the FO couldn’t give less than half a crap about the fans, you have to think they care about money? who is gonna go to a game and pay 10 bucks for a beer to see shoppach catch carlos carrasco?
The Cleveland Indians: Minor League Farm Team Affiliate of the MLB
by HireRockyColavito on Jul 31, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
This was about the money. They can’t afford these guys anymore. Fans aren’t coming out, and the fans barely came out when the Indians put 90 win teams on the field a couple years ago. It’s the reality of the situation. It sucks.
That’s why likely Shapiro figured that he has to trade Victor, regardless of the thoughts of the fanbase – they weren’t coming out now and they wouldn’t come out for the Indians in 2010 even with Lee and Victor still here – long term, it made the most sense to trade them, even though the emotional side suggests that it was the wrong move.
Hopefully, in time, the fans will see the wisdom of these moves, even though it is very tough to swallow. I suspect that for some fans, however, nothing short of winning a WS will make it okay in those fans’ eyes. Let’s just hope we can convince those fans too! :-)
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
“trot” is something a horse does, right?
by Logodaedalus on Jul 31, 2009 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
a team withoutleaderstalent will alwaysunder-achievesuck, regardless oftalentleadership level
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 31, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I know – seeing Victor in that Red Sox uniform for the first time is going to take some major mental strength on my part; my brain will say, “Say what?! Did I see that right? Oh, yuck (regarding Victor wearing the uniform, not regarding Victor himself!”
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Hopefully, Victor won’t be a Red Sox for the long term; by the time we are back in contention (hopefully), Victor will be elsewhere. The emotional part of me is saying, "Maybe Victor will be resigned and back here) (like Lofton back in 1998), but the logical part of me is saying, “That’s not likely to happen,” so you just have to hope he’s elsewhere (LAD, TB, HOU, elsewhere? NYY – ugh! Not that one either, hopefully).
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
do not, i repeat, DO NOT visit the indians page on the four letter’s website. his new laundry is already photoshopped on his smiling face.
i’m ill… extremely ill.
You are reading my signature.
concerning my 40-man roster question, someone posted this over at indians prospect insider:
40-man already
-——————
Starters (10) – Carmona, Westbrook, Huff, Laffey, Reyes, Lewis, Rondon, Sowers(?)
Gone: Pavano (will be), Lee
Add: Carrassco, Masterson
Relievers (9) – Woods, Sipp, Smith, Lewis, Perez, Perez, Miller, Jackson (?)
Gone: Betancourt, Rundles, Ohka, Gosling, Veras, Herges, Meloan, Abreau
Add: Todd (already added Chris Perez before this above)
Catchers (5) – Santana, Shoppach, Toregas, Giminez
Gone: Martinez
Add: Marson
Infielders (6) – Cabrera, Garko, Peralta, Valbuena, Barfield(?):
Gone: Carrol
Add: Donald
Outfielders (4) – Sizemore, LaPorta, Choo, Crowe
Gone: Francisco
DH (1) – Hafner
35 – players
Roster:
For sure (4): De La Cruz, Gomez, Brantley, Weglarz
Top players remaining for final spot (5): Hodges, Brown, Lofgren, Hermann, McBride
Best of the rest (probably left off): Tomlin, Rivero, Wright, Edell, Smith, Myer, Pestano, Roehl, Wagner
Obviously, it’s his opinion and there will be some changes, but just to give us an idea.
Thanks – greatly appreciated!
The top players for that final spot should be interesting – do you leave Brown off after the year he’s had (he hit his 30th 2B last night, so while the HRs may not be that impressive, though still double digits, the 2Bs do stand out) or do you chance him being left off (I suspect someone will probably take him this time) and go with either Lofgren or Hermann? Would Lofgren draw enough interest to warrant using the spot on him – he’s rebounded to an extent to look interesting, but interesting enough? Hermann wasn’t highly-touted, but has emerged as an interesting bullpen prospect, but with all of the recent acquisitions from the trades, is he now expendable and worth leaving off? I can’t believe Hodges (who’s been injured too much and not consistent enough offensively or defensively) or McBride (has stalled at AA, showing flashes, but not enough consistency) would get it at this point.
It should be interesting. :-)
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
40 doubles does not make up for 15 home runs by a first baseman.
GIVE IT UP
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
How many double’s “equal” one HR?
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 31, 2009 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions
has LaPorta officially been called up? sorry to be the slow kid
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 31, 2009 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
ah…gotcha. thanks and sorry for the misread
by DontCallMeJoey on Jul 31, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Other teams are gonna love our young depth come rule 5 time.
This is Victor's home. Victor Jose, you too.
noy sure how accurate this is, but i grabbed off indians prospect insider (again):
Pitchers:
De La Cruz, Kelvin
Edell, Ryan
Espino, Paolo
Finocchi, Michael
Gomez, Jeanmar
Herrmann, Frank
Lofgren, Chuck
Martinez, Anillins
Martinez, Sandy
Meyer, Matt
Pestano, Vinnie
Roehl, Scott
Rosario, Gregorio
Smith, Carlton
Stiller, Erik
Tomlin, Josh
Tseng, Sung-Wei
Urena, Jose
Wagner, Neil
Wright, Steven
Catchers:
Camacaro, Armando
Catillo, Alex
Davis, Adam
Espino, Damaso
Martinez, Richard
Infielders:
Arnal, Cristo
Brown, Jordan
Cannizaro, Andy
Diaz, Kelvin
Goedert, Jared
Head, Jared
Head, Stephen
Hodges, Wes
McBride, Matt
Nash, Chris
Rivero, Carlos
Rodriguez, Josh
Outfielders:
Brantley, Michael
Constanza, Jose
Drennen, John
Montero, Lucas
Pena, Roman
Weglarz, Nick
STO is showing Victor talking about getting traded and IT IS SO SAD YOU GUYS. VICTOR IS SO SAD. I’m going to go cry.
Probably. It was pretty standard player-got-traded talk thanking the Indians for giving him an opportunity, etc. etc. He just sounded so SAD.
FanGraphs likes the deal for both tteams (that’s called a win-win, Logo). They think the Indians got a good return for Victor (knowing only Masterson and Hagadone).
I love fangraphs as a site to look up stats, and some of their articles are pretty good, but I also disagree with them alot and there have been some pretty bad ones recently (the Nyjer Morgan UZR one comes to mind).
Dunno why I just shared that with all of you.
Fangraphs has always been a Masterson fan. Not its bad or anything but that explains why they love the trade so much. To be fair ,I’ve seen a few scouts that like Masterson better than Bowden
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 31, 2009 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
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