Game 86: Indians 10, White Sox 8

by afh4 on Jul 9, 2009 8:57 PM EDT Comment 61 comments

The Indians salvaged a win from their series with the White Sox by prevailing in an offensive fireworks show. The Indians hung 9 runs on the White Sox in the first 2.2 innings of play and on the day collected ten walks. Of course, the Indians pitchers weren't much better, as David Huff couldn't do much of anything right as he surrendered 8 runs in just 4.1 innings of work.

Surprisingly, the Indians bullpen actually came to the rescue, finishing out the game without allowing another run. It was probably a "positive regression" game for a couple of guys; I mean, Joe Smith, Wood, Betancourt, these guys probably have some decent runs in them over the next 76 games (or more, depending on how far we advance).

I want to take a moment to speak to David Huff. Mr. Huff, I don't know what your deal is, and I know that some people in these parts think they've detected improvement from you, but, well, this isn't going to suffice. You walk too many batters and you give up too many hits. All I'm saying is that if you don't course correct, you can look forward to the life of Jeremy Sowers. And, despite what Sowers says, that's a miserable life.

If you're looking for me to say something nice, Chuck Lofgren went 7 scoreless today with 6 K's and a BB. However, if Sowers and Huff have taught me anything it's that lefties in the minors need to be examined with a grain of salt.

Next up: Clifton showcases himself against Edwin Jackson, who is arguably having a better season than Cliff. Sigh. 7:05 in Detroit.

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depending on how far we advance

um, what?

by supermarioelia on Jul 9, 2009 9:13 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

THIS!

"Some days are better than others, but it's a long season."

— The Inestimable Eric Wedge

by emd2k3 on Jul 9, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions

It’s a joke, I think. Bricker, a ruling?

by NickFantana on Jul 9, 2009 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions

definitely. Although Hegan said Huff wasn’t nearly as bad as the #s, I enjoyed the Sowers lines too.

Proud Fan of the Worst Baseball Team I've Ever Seen

by westbrook on Jul 9, 2009 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions

No, this is what I’m railing against. Pitchers are their performances. I’m so tired of hearing that some other pitcher with an ERA over 6.00 is pitching better than he seems. This is what we used to say about Sowers. And about Jason Johnson.

You know who’s pitching well? Pitchers who have ERAs that aren’t over 6.00.

by afh4 on Jul 10, 2009 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions

Hear, hear. The 2009 Indians: what you see is what you get.

by odradek on Jul 10, 2009 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions

No, this is what I’m railing against. Pitchers are their performances. I’m so tired of hearing that some other pitcher with an ERA over 6.00 is pitching better than he seems.

Pitchers are their performances is non responsive to the comment “they pitched better than their stat line.” Look at last night’s performance where Laffey pitched well minus one very bad inning. If you just look at his general stat line you can’t fully appreciate the context of his outing. The same can be said for a pitcher who is crushed because of a few bad pitches or questionable calls.

I think this is three times as true for a relatively young pitcher in his first season.

by world dictator on Jul 10, 2009 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions

In the vernacular, this is known as picking fly shit out of pepper.

by odradek on Jul 10, 2009 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions

Tired of it. Tired of it. Tired of it.

Is some of that valid? Sure.

Is it anywhere near compelling enough for me to generate optimism for a pitcher like Huff, or Sowers before him, or Fausto in 2008, or any of the other utter disasters we’ve watched over the past 4 seasons, ‘07 excluded? No. It’s nowhere near that compelling.

It sounds just as bad to me as Wedge saying a guy is really grinding or whatever. Don’t pitch well in spite of your numbers, or whatever. Just pitch well.

by afh4 on Jul 10, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions

This. One thousands times this. Sowers sucks, Huff and Laffey suck right now. I’m tired of hearing about how “one bad inning” or “a couple of bad bounces” or having Ryan Garko in the outfield caused the abomination that was one of their latest starts. Pitch better.

I become an expert simply by doing something.

by fwembt on Jul 10, 2009 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions

We really shouldn’t put Garko out there though. Defense can make a pitcher look better

by Roger Dorn on Jul 11, 2009 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions

How many times do we need to be told, at least half of what we perceive as “pitching” is actually defense.

Huff is a rookie. Garko is indefensible.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on Jul 11, 2009 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions

I was reading the Seattle sites because I like to read about their obsession over Gutierrez. They basically are saying that Gutz and their strong outfield defense have turned Washburn into a serviceable pitcher. If Washburn is going out there with Francisco and Garko in the outfield, he is in big trouble.

by Roger Dorn on Jul 11, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions

I realize he is a rookie and that our defense is bad, that does not change the fact that Huff simply is not pitching well. 11.8 h/9 and a WHIP of 1.68 don’t do much toward arguing that this is all defense. Even if someone tracks down two of those hits, his h/9 is still awful.

Don’t get me wrong, I want him to be decent and I have nothing against him, but he’s bad right now.

I become an expert simply by doing something.

by fwembt on Jul 11, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions

Missed balls add one hit at least and sometimes more. Longer innings work against pitchers by definition.

I don’t deny that he hasn’t pitched all that well, but I think most baseball pros would acknowledge that it’s hard for a pitcher to develop in front of a weak and badly flawed defense.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on Jul 12, 2009 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions

Any of the other utter disasters we’ve watched over the past 4 seasons, ‘07 excluded.

It really is amazing, especially considering good pitchers like CC and Jake were on the staffs.

by odradek on Jul 10, 2009 11:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Honestly, I think this is a little too hard on Huff.

Is he doing well? No, he’s clearly struggling.

Is he hanging pitches? Yes.

But, I want to put a little bit of this game on Wedge too.

That’s because I’m really tired of the constant shifting of players from position to position.

In today’s case … Choo to LF, Garko to RF.

Choo is a passable enough RF, with a great arm. Every time I’ve seen him play LF, he appears to stumble around out there like a drunken sailor.

I know the numbers probably say LF in the Cell has more area to cover … but I’d rather still have Garko in LF and Choo in RF. It’s where both are likely more comfortable.

I bring this up .. because if Choo makes that catch … the inning ends … and Huff doesn’t get 3 more runs charged to him.

If that happens, perhaps he survives 5 or 6 … and maybe walks away with a much better line. Maybe it all goes to hell later on anyways.

I’m all for Victor playing a little 1B to save his legs … but, I think Wedge and company are getting too carried away with this flexibility stuff … it’s great for your bench guys, but not for 75% of the position players.

by FallsTribeFan on Jul 9, 2009 10:39 PM EDT reply actions

I’ll admit I went the entire game without realizing that Grady wasn’t in center and Choo wasn’t in right… even though I read [redd] in the thread that Garko was in right.

Maybe it was because I was trying to effectively format in the fanpost editor; maybe it was because I don’t really care any more.

But it sure was nice to not think about it all afternoon.

Fire Wedge.

Proud Fan of the Worst Baseball Team I've Ever Seen

by westbrook on Jul 9, 2009 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions

I see no problem with shifting players around.

I see no problem with Choo playing in left field, and I think developing versatility is a smart thing to do. Especially in a lost season, why not do it?

The real problem is that we should not be choosing the lesser evil between Garko in RF and Garko in LF.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on Jul 9, 2009 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions

I’ll agree there.

I’m not against having versatility mind you, I’m against overusing it.

Choo has run some really, really bad routes in his few games in LF.

I guess I’d rather be uncomfortable with balls hit to one OF position, rather than 2.

by FallsTribeFan on Jul 9, 2009 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions

It has been a familiar cleveland.com complaint (CCC) that one of Wedge’s insane traits is his mania for flexibility. Perhaps it is bad for players, but I don’t think so.

Wedge in previous seasons has been a drone for uniformity. I haven’t gone and checked his number of lineups, but he does seem to be a man who desires standardization. I think he occasionally overcompensates (Garko in OF) to show he knows how to do a double shift and manage in the National League style,

by odradek on Jul 10, 2009 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions

LaPorta, plz.

by JulioBernazard on Jul 10, 2009 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Huff was awful today. There is no manner of defensive switching that hides that. He looks like what most people thought he was at the start of the year, a middling pitcher who is a year away.

I become an expert simply by doing something.

by fwembt on Jul 10, 2009 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions

Most people thought that?

Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile

by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 10, 2009 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions

I think so. I think we all saw him as a guy with #3-#5 potential but a year or so down the road. Am I wrong on that?

I become an expert simply by doing something.

by fwembt on Jul 10, 2009 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions

I’ll admit, I thought he was a guy who could be plugged in from the get-go. And “middling” isn’t MOR to me… Sowers is middling.

Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile

by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 11, 2009 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions

How can a guy be middling when he’s the worst starter on the worst pitching staff?

“Middling” means “in the middle.”

If Sowers were truly middling, we’d be dancing a jig about it.

Huff can be middling, that would be great.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on Jul 11, 2009 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions

Middling is like mediocre—it’s a loose synonym of “average,” “OK,” “serviceable”… but its connotation is overwhelmingly negative.

Anyway, it’s worth noting that we’re debating whether the word “middling” better describes a first-round sandwich pick or the #6 overall pick.

Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile

by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 11, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions

What’s worth noting is that that should not surprise anyone. Those are normal yields for those picks.

Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

by Jay on Jul 11, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions

The DiaTribe have some disturbing facts regarding Huff’s starts.

David Huff has 10 starts under his belt as a starting pitcher for the Cleveland Indians. In 5 of those starts, Ryan Garko has been the starting LF and, in fact, all of Garko’s career starts in LF have come with Huff on the mound

Is putting a converted catcher in LF with a young pitcher whose flyball ratio in the minors was 40.4% really putting up the best defensive alignment possible?

And then yesterday’s game, Garko started for the 1st time in RF with BenFran in CF and Choo in LF. Wedge? Seriously?

by jayme on Jul 10, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions

Man that’s awful stuff.

by supermarioelia on Jul 10, 2009 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions

I hope Shapiro’s numbers staff notices this and relays this info. That’s pretty embarassing.

by talonk on Jul 11, 2009 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions

You walk too many batters

Eighteen walks in 56.1 IP is ok…less than 3 BB per 9 innings pitched.

His fastball is just real flat so far. He had the minor arm problem in spring training, and my guess is we won’t see his real stuff until next year. His numbers in Columbus were ok, but nowhere near what they were in Buffalo last season. Today, he had absolutely no breaking ball at all, so he was a two-pitch pitcher who was very hittable.

He was so good last season and his secondary stuff is better than either Sowers or Laffey, so I think he can still be a middle of the rotation guy.

by TribeJay on Jul 10, 2009 12:24 AM EDT reply actions

That might be an alright walk rate if he got any kind of strikeouts. Or groundballs.

by afh4 on Jul 10, 2009 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions

I’m bored
6:26 AM Jul 8th from txt
Gator4God
Matt LaPorta

by fleerdon on Jul 10, 2009 12:27 AM EDT reply actions

Yeah, really.

by odradek on Jul 10, 2009 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions

Who is he kidding, having a picture of a nice catch as his background?

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 10, 2009 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions

Tweets like these are why I find no reason at all to join Twitter.

by JulioBernazard on Jul 10, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions

LaPorta is probably the most boring Twitter person that I follow. I was against at first, but have found it a useful resource

by Roger Dorn on Jul 10, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions

wow this is a screw David Huff thread I see.

by world dictator on Jul 10, 2009 9:17 AM EDT reply actions

From Brad Grant, courtesy of Lastoria’s Minor Happenings, one reason LaPorta is not in Cleveland:

“…It is just expediting the knowledge of learning to play two positions the way Eric Wedges (sic) wants them to be played. "

And a comment many will love on Weglarz! (note the forward-looking comment on Mr. Wedge):

“…The think that stands out about Nick is you go watch him play and you see his confidence, you see how aggressive he is, and as a baseball player you want him on your team. I think Eric Wedge is going to be excited to have him one day.”

by bewwolv on Jul 10, 2009 4:03 PM EDT reply actions

Aw crap, we’re trading Weglarz?

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Jul 10, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

So LaPorta, in the Tribe’s eyes, is just not ready defensively. Is that what I’m reading?

by dgcambridge on Jul 10, 2009 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions

i do remember wedge saying when they sent him down that they wanted him to be an option at 1st when he came back.

by Brick. on Jul 10, 2009 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions

He loves benfran too much to sit him.

Proud Fan of the Worst Baseball Team I've Ever Seen

by westbrook on Jul 10, 2009 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions

It probably speaks more to the organization’s long-term faith in Brantley. After all, I saw it mentioned somewhere that Garko’s been taking some reps in the OF.

Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile

by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 10, 2009 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions

From Brad Grant

It should be noted that the quotes were not from Brad Grant, but from Ross Atkins.

by TribeJay on Jul 10, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Gracias.

by bewwolv on Jul 10, 2009 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions

with Kerry Wood, on paper, on December 9, 2008, are bullpen is freakin awesome

by ASP on Dec 9, 2008 2:41 PM EST actions 0 recs

by fleerdon on Jul 10, 2009 8:36 PM EDT reply actions

I want to see a Miller/Meloan/Wood fastball contest.

2009 Cleveland Indians – Bringing the heat.

Don’t be stupid. PUT IN MELOAN.
by gte619n on Dec 9, 2008 5:06 PM EST actions 0 recs

by fleerdon on Jul 10, 2009 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions