There is Hope on the Horizon in Cleveland
Once again perpetuating the belief that Matt Laporta can't play the outfield and the Indians would be dumb to play him there.....
Also Jordon Brown fans sing praise! The no-pop first baseman should apparently be freed from his cage! Release the beast!
And check out the big brain on Hagadone, ETA 2011.....from this organization!
over 2 years ago
hans
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The one big hole is our system seems to be lower level positional prospects. If you go through the Lake County and Kinston boxscores, with Chisenhall promoted and Abner Abreu hurt, there’s not a lot of exciting there. That said, if a reasonable number of the guys in Akron and Columbus (and Cleveland) develop as hoped for, that shouldn’t be a problem in the near-medium term.
Maybe Shapiro will finally draft some high-ceiling high school players to fill those holes.
by Logodaedalus on Aug 20, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Hard to worry about lower-level positional guys when we are so thick with positional guys from AA to MLB. Sizemore, Choo and Peralta are the old men at 27. LaPorta and Donald are 24. Asdrubuena are 23, as are Marson and Santana. Brantley is 22, Weglarz is 21, the Chiz is 20. That’s 12 established major leaguers and/or Top 100 prospects among the position players alone, all 27 or younger.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
I’m not saying I’m worried about it, I’m saying it’s a hole. But if we don’t add or have a few lower level positional prospects emerge next year, then I’ll be concerned.
I don’t know, it’s not the same as lacking pitchers. Hitters have a lower attrition rate and a longer shelf life.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Note too that those were only good prospects, not suspects … no Hodges, Brown, Marte, Mills, Rivero, Gimenez, Toregas. That’s seven more guys before we even get to the rest of the ’08 signings.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
My concern would be as much for the organization allowing that hole to form than for the hole itself.
First, I think this is a hole that looks a lot deeper because of the unusual strength in every other part of our system.
Second, said “allowing” is (therefore) a function of our having focused on high-minors hitters, high-minors pitchers, and low-minors/high-ceiling pitchers in trading Sabathia, Blake, DeRosa, Betancourt, Garko, Lee, and Martinez. We could have picked up some low-minors hitters in those deals, and I think it was a deliberate decision not to. If you want some more of those players, who are you willing to give up from those deals? (Maybe the low-minors pitchers? The attrition rates turn me off.)
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
I definitely would not give up anyone we got for low-minors hitters.
by Logodaedalus on Aug 21, 2009 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I would give up Wedge for some low-minors hitters.
by Buckeye Brad on Aug 21, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
You’d throw in a bucket o’ balls if someone will take Wedge off our hands?
by Logodaedalus on Aug 21, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I would either throw it in or gladly receive in exchange for….
Stuart Dean, shrubber
by stuart dean on Aug 21, 2009 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
i believe one of these balls is plastic… which is far closer in value to wedge than real baseballs
by gorilla_baller on Aug 21, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Our minors system lacks some pop though, eh? I mean outside of Wegz, do we really have anyone else that projects at 20-30 homer power? Maybe Santana?
I think the Indians are targeting via draft and trade a different type of player.
Valbuena, Fedroff, Kipnis, Brantley, Marson, Greenwell. Guys who put the bat on the ball and control the strike zone.
yep. i don’t know how we really stack up against other systems in this department, but it seems like our organizational preference is for guys who make solid contact and project as line-drive hitters.
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Aug 20, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember when Shapiro originally took over as the GM, his goal was to have a lineup, 1-9, of guys that hit .280 with 20 HR and 80 RBI. The thinking was that all of the guys could do the same damage, and not a single player would eat up a huge chunk of payroll. Based on the guys mentioned, perhaps he’s returning to that way of thinking after the vast sums of money spent on Hafner and Westbrook. (Only including WB since he’s taking up a huge % of the total payroll commitment for next year.)
If I really cared, I’d search for a Shapiero quote from way back when.
He planned to score a lot of runs on GIDPs.
by Logodaedalus on Aug 21, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i love how we’ve gotten to the point where a poster can’t bring up the traditional “triple slash” stats without being mocked and having the actual content of his post ignored.
i think lenred was just trying to describe the type of player shap was going after, not necessarily the metrics he was using. he was trying to say that the idea was to have a balanced lineup in which every player could hit for average, had some pop, and could be counted on to drive in runs. not every team sees this as an optimal lineup—traditionally the goal is to supply offense from just a few positions (corner OF, corner IF, DH).
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Aug 21, 2009 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
i love how we’ve gotten to the point where a poster can’t bring up the traditional "triple slash" stats without being mocked and having the actual content of his post ignored.
Me too!
Actually, I didn’t comment on the idea of equivalent 1-9 hitters for a number of reasons – namely that it makes no sense and I don’t believe Shapiro ever subscribed to the theory. So, I offered a flippant dismissal. Since these are clearly unacceptable in your view, here are a few reasons why that strategy (and therefor the whole of the content) is stupid:
1. It’s been shown that different spots in the lineup are more valuable than others (from a run production standpoint). Having the same hitter across every spot is no where near the optimal lineup structure. Shapiro is well aware of this.
2. It suggests that the goal would be to avoid players that would be likely to surpass the .280/20/80 line, so as to avoid paying them large sums of money. At no point has Shapiro, now would he ever, avoid a player because he was too productive.
3. It suggests that the best way to control salary costs is to avoid immensely talented players, which is patently absurd. No small market team does so, they simply opt for young, pre-arb players (some of whom they will pay in advance for controlled arb costs)
4. Hitters that hit for equivalent production across different positions have different value, and will be paid accordingly by the market. This strategy, as stated, ignores service time and suggests that any player regardless of service time or position is affordable so long as he’s near that triple slash level. From 1998 through 2007 Jorge Posada averaged .278/21/84. He gets paid $13M this year.
So, is that better?
No, “1 through 9” is not only a real mantra this front office talked about in the early days, but it was our season motto for either 2003 or 2004.
While not as specific as “.280/20/80,” Shapiro/Wedge’s goal was a lineup that had no easy out as opposed to a strong 1-4 and near black holes elsewhere. Going any deeper into that philosophy—what each hitter should average—is reading too much into it. Of course Shapiro wouldn’t be opposed to a #4 hitter with a 1.000 OPS.
Steel Nick
Trying to make a lineup that’s dangerous from 1-9 and the above stated strategy are not at all equivalent.
I know. I’m just telling you the mantra existed, it just doesn’t mean what is being interpreted above.
Steel Nick
It’s pretty absurd to take that and conclude that they’d want to “avoid immensely talented players”. I think the idea is just that if you’re going to have X amount of talent, better to spread it around than concentrate it in a few players. Obviously you’d want to have X be as large as possible.
by Logodaedalus on Aug 21, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Incorrect, since that’s not at all what’s been stated:
The thinking was that all of the guys could do the same damage, and not a single player would eat up a huge chunk of payroll.
The theory is stated as if you are going to have X amount of offense, better to spread it around than to concentrate it since then your payroll will be better spread out. That’s not the case, as I pointed out above.
um, yeah, that is better. less snark, more content = better post.
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Aug 21, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
i love how we’ve gotten to the point where a poster can’t bring up the traditional "triple slash" stats without being mocked and having the actual content of his post ignored.
I know, isn’t it great? I can’t think of a better way to stigmatize idiot stats, and clearly some stigma is still needed.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
and according to scouting reports most of these guys can play a little defense too
by gorilla_baller on Aug 21, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Not counting LaPorta?
I think our youngest players and our prospects emphasize plus-power up the middle rather than big-bopper numbers at the corners. Same thing we had 2005-2007 (other than Hafner), and same thing that the great Yankees teams had when we had all the big boppers.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
fangraphs analysis sucks
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Aug 20, 2009 8:17 PM EDT reply actions
it’s ok, my brain isn’t doing a great job translating thoughts into cogent sentences tonight either.
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Aug 20, 2009 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions
i lrnd hw2 n my srority
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
by mauichuck on Aug 21, 2009 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Clearly not.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Aug 21, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
He didn’t do it right. You don’t just leave out vowels.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Aug 21, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
That would be a better way to do it though, wouldn’t it? You sound like less of a complete imbecile if you just leave out vowels but otherwise form actual sentences.
by Logodaedalus on Aug 21, 2009 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe but since he was mocking the system he needed to be accurate for it to be effective.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Aug 21, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
i mean, i read the site, but there is just some plain garbage on there. i read an article earlier today in which the author concluded that the giants shouldn’t have molina catch zito because, based on some 20-game samples, zito’s ERA was better when other guys are behind the plate. it was awful.
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Aug 20, 2009 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Exhibit A:
The club lacks the veteran presence on the roster to make a significant playoff push next year
Whatever! They totally predicted tonight’s result!
by NickFantana on Aug 20, 2009 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Of interest:
Beau Mills has seen his LD% drop from around 19 last year to around 13 this year.
Michael Brantley has kept his LD% around 20 for the season, and is sporting a .270 BAbip on the year (in contrast to his career mark of .327).
Carlos Santana regularly has months where nearly 1/3 of balls struck are line drives.
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