Game 125: Cleveland 2, Kansas City 6
by APV on Aug 25, 2009 11:15 PM EDT
in Game Recaps
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PrintIn his previous start, Justin Masterson gave a good look at what he is capable of, going 6+ innings without allowing an earned run. Tonight he showed that as a starter and a major league pitcher, he is still quite inexperienced and a work in progress. Through the first four innings tonight Masterson was having trouble locating his pitches, trouble getting lefties out (which Kansas City made sure to stack their lineup with), trouble holding runners, and trouble fielding his position - all of which contributed to a 4-0 Royals lead. That it was only 4-0 was somewhat remarkable, but owed something to Masterson's ability to induce a couple of timely double-plays and some great defense behind him courtesy of Luis Valbuena. When Justin came over to Cleveland one of the things he was praised for was his maturity and he showed it tonight. After those early struggles Masterson retired his last 8 batters, 3 of them on strikeouts, leaving Cleveland within striking distance at 4-1 after the 6th.
The Royals starter, Zack Greinke, was once a work in progress. A former top prospect, as recently as 2006 Greinke was struggling both personally and professionally and was nearly out of baseball altogether. Tonight he gave one of the best performances ever by a player in a Royals uniform. Greinke ended the first with back-to-back strikeouts of Jamey Carroll and Shin Soo Choo and never looked back. By the time he struck out Andy Marte in the 8th inning he had set a franchise record with 15 Ks. Showing impressive discretion, Kansas City manager Trey Hillman elected to not put Greinke out again in the 9th, having already set a season high in pitches thrown, despite Greinke still looking capable of K'ing Indians.
The Indians never mounted much of a rally on Greinke. Their first run came when Andy Marte led off the 6th with a no-doubt home-run to left field. Just before he struck out in the 8th, Marte was a couple yards wide of the foul pole from having his second round-tripper of the evening. The Tribe's second run came in the 8th when Matt LaPorta, who had doubled to lead off the inning, scored on an Asdrubal Cabrera double (who was thrown out in a misguided attempt to stretch the double one base further).
Next up: Huff vs. Hochevar, 2:10pm
| Highest | WPA | Lowest | WPA |
| A. Marte | .022 | J. Masterson | -.153 |
| J. Lewis | .003 | T. Hafner | -.078 |
| J. Carroll | -.062 |
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I was at the Rockies/Dodgers game tonight. I saw Casey Blake hit a no doubt home run. I saw Raffy R get shelled in the 9th. And I saw Joe Torre CHOOSE TO PITCH to Manny Ramirez with two outs in the ninth and the tying run on third, and I saw Manny do what Manny does.
I also saw the Rockies, a team once every bit as “done” as the Tribe before they fired their manager and saved their season, pull out a win in the tenth and pull within two games of the division. They’re likely going to play in October.
I hate 2009.
Il faut d'abord durer.
by CU Adam on Aug 26, 2009 1:40 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Agreed. The NL West is the NL West, but the Rockies are 30 games over .500 since June 4th. It’s infuriating. People are already talking about Rocktober again.
Il faut d'abord durer.
by CU Adam on Aug 26, 2009 10:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Joe Torre chose to pitch to his own guy?
"It's all part of life's rich pageant, you know?" - Inspector Clouseau
by woodsmeister on Aug 26, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions
And we think Wedge is bad…
I'm not really into Song of Hiawatha.
by sarcasmdave on Aug 26, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sorry. Obviously meant Tracy. Must have been still dumbfounded that they survived such a poor decision to win.
Il faut d'abord durer.
by CU Adam on Aug 26, 2009 10:17 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So apparently it wasn’t Jim Tracy’s in-game decisionmaking that allowed him to single-handedly turn the season around with an 11 game winning streak. Too bad Clint Hurdle’s Rockies never managed an 11 game winning streak in a push toward the postseason.
Funny.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Aug 26, 2009 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
At this point, O’Dowd has gotta be the favorite to win the TSN executive of the year award. Besides having a roster stuffed full of homegrown players and pulling the trigger on Hurdle, he did a nifty job filling out the rotation:
Jorge de la Rosa in a conditional deal with KC. Not really sure what this means;
Jason Hammel from the Rays in exchange for Aneury Rodriguez; and best of all
Jason Marquis for Luis Vizcaino.
Wasn’t around to follow the game today, wow 15 k’s and a Partay HR interesting game
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Aug 26, 2009 7:10 AM EDT reply actions
No, Manny actually batted for the Rockies in the 9th inning. Dude is crazy.
by Toxicadam on Aug 26, 2009 8:55 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I still hate seeing Victor help the Red Sox. I really hope they miss the playoffs. I haven’t really had this kind of negative reaction to any other player we traded. In fact, usually I root for their (new) team to win.
Masterson was obviously not at his best and as you pointed out, he was the recipient of some timely double plays… but on a day where he was clearly not his best, he didn’t pitch terribly. This is entirely subjective, but it feels like when a good pitcher has a bad day (read: gives up four, five, six runs) they still manage to throw their six or seven innings and spare the bullpen. By going six innings, Masterson did that, and with a day game coming on the heels of last night, that I don’t overlook that.
Along with Marte’s HR, I was happy to see Masterson struggle through a lineup of LHH on a day where he wasn’t pitching his best.
by gorilla_baller on Aug 26, 2009 11:30 AM EDT reply actions
Couldn’t agree more. Its beneficial for him to struggle through the Lefty dominated lineup. Rather the results be bad this year, than in years to come. And yes, even more importantly, he proved he can buckle down, not loose his emotions and get through 6 innings.
The overall results might have been bad, but Masterson will definitely learn from this. We will reap the benefits on down the line.
by MooneysRebellion on Aug 26, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Not worth its own post, but I see that Juan Salas is actually pitching in the organization, making his second appearance for the AZL Tribe last night. Mike Pontius, who looked like he might be a relief prospect during the first half of last season, is pitching rehab in AZL, too.
He made one less-than-stellar appearance in July, too. Here’s a cherry-picked stat: in August, Salas has struck out 86% of the AZL batters he’s faced.
Sure, that’s great, but he’s a little old for that league. If he were 15, he might be an interesting prospect.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Todays lineup here
Marte in again – in the 8 hole no less.
The Carrol rf experiment continues despite fb pitcher Huff.
Gimenez with a cameo. Hey Wedge, there’s two words that go really well together Gimenez and cameo
There is a great need for a sarcasm font
If there’s a situation in which to use the backup catcher, this is it. Carroll is no Garko in the outfield, but I’m kind of surprised we’re not getting Gimenez out there, or even Baboo as the most powerless DH ever.
Castro weighed in on Marte, and Wedge’s comments as well as his propensity to play favorites here (about three-quarters of the way down). I didn’t know that AC was a drinker of the JBrown koolaid or that he was so dhown ohn Jhonny….
Honestly, I just really want to see Marte succeed, so that they trade Peralta, so I don’t have to see Peralta batting cleanup next April and either grounding into a double play or striking out every time he’s up to bat with guys on base. So I am biased pro-Marte, and hopeful that his one successful minor league season can translate to a successful major league season … No one’s looking for Wedge to say encouraging things to the media, but he certainly doesn’t need to respond negatively. As for Marte’s progress, how you judge anyone’s progress after 58 at bats? Play him every day from now until the end of the year and don’t say anything to the media pro or con, I’m 100% fine with that … And not only Valbuena, what about the praise for Gimenez we’ve been subjected to, when the guy’s done nothing remotely impressive since spring training? I feel bad for picking on Gimenez all the time, but to me it’s very obvious that Wedge plays favorites, to the detriment of the team, and he’s the most recent, glaring example. Gimenez doesn’t have the potential of Marte or Jordan Brown, he was hitting 100 points lower than both of them in Columbus, but Gimenez was on the team way before those guys (and then stealing ABs from Marte when he was first called up), for no other reason that I can tell other than that Wedge apparently liked him in spring training.
There is a great need for a sarcasm font
That’s not Castro. The bylines are below the comments, not above. Castro has this to say:
You can’t compare Marte and Valbuena. Two totally different situations. Valbuena was getting his first real exposure to the big leagues. This is potentially Marte’s last real shot, as every team in the bigs passed on him on the waiver wire in March. He’s been up here for long periods before, and now is the time to produce.
And maybe Wedge talked about seeing encouraging signs with Valbuena because he really did see encouraging signs. Maybe he said Marte needs to hit hittable pitches, because he sees him missing hittable pitches. Sometimes it really is that simple.
And this:
And I don’t pretend to know all of Wedge’s motives with regard to what he says to the media. I just know that in this specific instance, after all the Indians have been through with Marte over the last few years, it does little good to coddle him. The guy has a very limited window to prove himself here, and a handful of singles isn’t going to do the trick. Now, last night’s double and tonight’s HR (particularly with Greinke dealing) are much more encouraging signs.
The once and future
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Aug 26, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Also this:
Honestly, if a guy is so fragile that he needs the manager to say encouraging things about him to the media in order to succeed, then I don’t think he’s going to succeed at this level (not talking about Marte, specifically, but anybody, really).Castro misses the point a little – it’s not that Wedge should say encouraging things, it’s that he tears down the disfavored for no readily apparent reason while praising the gritty failures. The big counterexample is not Valbuena, it’s Gimenez.I’d rather a manager give us what he believes to be insight about a player’s progress, rather than some bland remark about him “making progress.” Just my 2 cents.
Just once I want it to be revealed that a player or someone from the front office or someone like Castro has been secretly posting for awhile.
I still don’t fully agree with this because there seems to be too much of a reliance on what Eric Wedge perceives about the situation. He is the manager and needs to make playing time calls, but not in direct dispute of what will be most beneficial for the long-term benefit or the team or at the contradiction of what the numbers are telling us.
The fact remains that Marte has still never received a completely fair shot at hitting in the big leagues. It could still go either way, but let’s not keep making evaluations on 50-100 ABs. That goes for the past two nights as well.
Yes but before he opens his trap, he has to make some sort of internal evaluation as to how his message will be received by the intended player. Bringing Agent M up only to alternate him with Chris F Gimenez and then giving him a public chiding makes Wedge look like he’s rigged the game and then blamed the player. If I were Andy, that would be how I’d perceive it whether what Wedge said is true or not.
There is a great need for a sarcasm font
F is an honorary middle initial that used to be owned by Casey F Blake though he did share it for one year with Trot F Nixon. The most recent co-holders were Ben F Francisco and Ryan F Garko. Chris’s hold on it is currently secure with Trevor dl Crowe on the sidelines.
There is a great need for a sarcasm font
hen giving him a public chiding
I get what you’re saying, but “he should hit hittable pitches” is far from a public chiding. It’s a public non-ringing endorsement.
Steel Nick
A hen giving a public chiding would be more entertaining.
by bewwolv on Aug 26, 2009 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I just know that in this specific instance, after all the Indians have been through with Marte over the last few years, it does little good to coddle him.
Irksome. What a number of us have advocated is the opposite of coddling. We don’t want him protected, we want him exposed.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Unless it’s an insufficiently buoyant bench….
by Logodaedalus on Aug 26, 2009 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions
The comments from Castro were a result of the post in his blog:
I must say I’m surprised at all the fuss over Wedge’s comments about Andy Marte in yesterday’s post (scroll down to find them, if you haven’t already seen them). Fact is, Marte has a lot to prove to this organization after 2007 and ‘08, and it’s going to take more than a five-game hitting streak to do so. Has anybody noticed that Marte has exactly two extra-base hits since he was called up a month ago? I’m not piling on here; I’m just stating the obvious that maybe the Indians want to see more from his at-bats if they’re going to count on him being a part of their future.
A couple of comments on this:
1) If you’re arguing that Wedge should have chosen to say something different, something bland and generic, I’ll agree with you. I can get behind that. However, it was hardly stinging criticism.
2) Castro’s surprise at the comments on his blog should provide evidence that he doesn’t spend much time at LGT. If he had, he wouldn’t have been surprised in the least. At all.
There was no reason for Wedge to say anything at all. Keep your trap shut. You don’t, despite what Anthony Castrovince thinks, have to offer commentary on everything, particularly where there’s about a 1% chance your commentary will be useful to anyone.
The Marte love at Castro’s blog is interesting. They love guys that put up old school stats. Barfield and Garko and Brown. That they’ve bought into our Give Marte a Chance schtick says something about his season as a Clipper.
by FredOx on Aug 26, 2009 10:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Sure it says something. It says his average was .327.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 26, 2009 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There was no reason for Wedge to say anything at all. Keep your trap shut. You don’t, despite what Anthony Castrovince thinks, have to offer commentary on everything
Aren’t we assuming Wedge was asked a question that this was a direct answer to? I assume every published word of his is an answer to a press corps member’s question. He doesn’t just yell, “Hey! I have a thought…”
It’s funny to imagine Wedge just staring at the reporter until someone else asks a question.
Steel Nick
I think we are assuming that he was asked a question, and we are saying that he didn’t need to give that answer.
On top of that, we don’t really care what Wedge thinks of how Marte hits, because it’s not clear that his opinion is worth anything.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Yeah, this. Although I’m not sure it’s safe to assume the question was specifically about Marte, as opposed to a general question about the team, the offense, the production from kids, etc.
Sure it is. Yes, he didn’t have to respond the way he did, but why wouldn’t you assume the question was about Marte?
Steel Nick
Because Eric Wedge has a huge chip on his shoulder about being saddled with Andy Marte, and if given an open-ended questions with which to do so, would love to bring Andy down a notch or two. Not to mention the people who think Andy Marte’s recent (relative) success impugns Wedge’s coaching ability.
It is, of course, far more likely that he was asked some variation of “How about that Andy Marte, huh?” to which he responded with a variation of “Him? He’s been OK recently, but he’s no Chris Gimenez.”
Woah, you go from cautioning us on assumptions and then lead with,
Eric Wedge has a huge chip on his shoulder about being saddled with Andy Marte, and if given an open-ended questions with which to do so, would love to bring Andy down a notch or two
As you said, I think we can both agree that the question was about Marte, and Eric Wedge’s answer was, “He’s doing pretty well, and here’s something he can work on.”
Steel Nick
This.
Nick and I are on the same wave-length here. Can we limit some of the over-the-top bashing of everything Wedge does or says? We get it.
Fred, it’s one thing to offer a fair criticism of Wedge that he has forced Marte to show him something to earn more playing time and not consider minor league success/pedigree to be that important. It’s another to offer the opinion you did. Holy smokes.
Eric Wedge’s answer was, "He’s doing pretty well, and here’s something he can work on."
Actually, there was no part where he said, “He’s doing pretty well.”
First, no need to call out a player publicly as he tries to adjust to big-league pitching. It’s hardly ever necessary to call out a player publicly, and it sure as hell isn’t necessary when you’re 12 games back at the end of August.
Second, Wedge is one of the reasons why Marte has never had this chance before.
Third, just as Shapiro no longer has license to defend Wedge publicly — and hasn’t since I posted on that subject, ohbytheway — Wedge no longer has license to be critical of Marte’s hitting. His views are suspect, because neither his motives nor his judgment can be given the benefit of the doubt about this player.
I see nothing over-the-top about this criticism.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
We’ve gone down this subthread so long I didn’t even recall the original quote. He didn’t have kind words for Marte, that’s true. I still have trouble mustering one ounce of a crap that he offered criticism.
His views are suspect, because neither his motives nor his judgment can be given the benefit of the doubt about this player.
All well and good, but then the press shouldn’t ask him. But as long as he’s the manager, he gets interviewed, and his opinion shows up in the newspaper. Wedge isn’t asking you to agree, and you and I clearly don’t.
Steel Nick
Don’t know if you’re referring to my “over-the-top” comment…but probably so. The criticism of Wedge for his statement is ok by me…I state so earlier in the thread. I was referring to Fred’s comment highlighted by Nick.
stupid question about marte.
is there any reason not to keep him after this season? i don’t really see a 25 man roster crunch where he can’t fit in for 2010, at least at the outset, even if we keep Shoppach and Jhonny. Seems like there’s not even any reason he can’t be a starter. Worst case, he backs up the corner infield while donald handles the middle and Crowe the OF. is gimenez so obviously more “vazquez” than marte?
Sounds like there should be some sort of measuring scale to identify just how Vazquez he is, perhaps in Vazquez Units.
"I can only root for fresh laundry. I HAVE STANDARDS AND A GOOD SENSE OF SMELL!" - Julie
by woodsmeister on Aug 26, 2009 8:19 PM EDT up reply actions
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