Indians Top 10 Prospects
From Baseball America. Post-Trade edition.
over 2 years ago
FallsTribeFan
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Highlights: Lots of turnover with recent trades, plus the seasons of Rondon and House.
Surprise (to me): Inclusion of Alex White that high up the list.
Lowlights: This line about Matt LaPorta.
Scouts are cooling a little on the centerpiece of the C.C. Sabathia trade.
Eh, I don’t know how much I agree with this list. It seems to be 90% potential and less focused on results. (Weglarz at #7?)
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Aug 3, 2009 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
that’s basically BA in a nutshell. they are very much ceiling > results. it’s an interesting perspective though, because the value of a guy like hagadone or knapp isn’t really tied at all to what they’ve actually accomplished.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Aug 3, 2009 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions
i guess that outlook would also explain rondon’s relatively low ranking. i don’t know what else would—he his been utterly dominant this year at a young age relative to his level of competition.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Aug 3, 2009 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I think BA is guilty of shiny new toy syndrome. It happens alot with them and the rankings of recently drafted players. How can a guy who hasn’t thrown one pitch in pro ball be ranked ahead of someone like Rondon who has dominated AA and is doing very well in AAA? I know White is good upside, but it’s not like Rondon is getting by with smoke and mirrors, and like you said, he’s young for the level.
In no world do I rank Knapp, who has a sore shoulder in A-ball, above Rondon, who is pitching fantastically at AAA.
by APV on Aug 3, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
This is in fact the exact reason that I came up with the PTM system … to show that if you focused on present-day value based on actual performance, the rankings would look very different.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Agree completely … they always shove the 1st round draftees right into team’s Top 10 lists …
by FallsTribeFan on Aug 3, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I think BA is guilty of shiny new toy syndrome.
Bingo
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Aug 3, 2009 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree … seems like a weird throwaway line to me.
by FallsTribeFan on Aug 3, 2009 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to keep hammering on the same point but…I will. Maybe it’s a question about his ability to patrol the outfield.
My guess is that they question his bat a little bit more than a few years ago, therefore making his defense a bigger issue. As far as I could tell from the few plays he made in the big league as well as the reports on him, his defense is solid/adequate if unspectacular.
Like I said, BA tends to sour on prospects who take a little longer than they had initially thought and that’s the only reason I think of that line, because to my untrained eye, he’s done nothing but show he can hit, play the OF and that he’s ready for an extended look in the majors.
Not to keep hammering on the same point but…I will. Maybe it’s a question about his ability to patrol the outfield.
Or do they question his ability to play the outfield because he’s also playing time at first? I’ve noticed that perception of a player often changes depending on how he’s being used.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Aug 4, 2009 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
the scouts have cooled so much on LaPorta that he moved from the 2nd-ranked indians prospect before the season, all the way down to the 2nd-ranked indians prospect after july.
what a ridiculous thing to say.
by DontCallMeJoey on Aug 4, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
For reference, the original 2009 BA top ten was:
1. Carlos Santana, c
2. Matt LaPorta, of
3. Nick Weglarz, of
4. Adam Miller, rhp
5. Beau Mills, 1b
6. Lonnie Chisenhall, ss
7. Kelvin de la Cruz, lhp
8. David Huff, lhp
9. Michael Brantley, of/1b
10. Carlos Rivero, ss
Lots of changes. While Rondon has been an LGT favorite for some time he’s just cracking their list and sort of grudgingly, since they show him as the fourth pitcher on their list. Is there a ceiling issue in their minds with him?
Lots of talent in the system, I guess, if de la Cruz can’t even crack the top ten. Carrasco was the #2 Phillies prospect at the beginning of the season and was still highly regarded when the trade happened, but he checks in at #10 on the Tribe list. Neyer said at the time of the Lee trade that he thinks highly of Carrasco, I seem to remember.
their main beef with Rondon is his lack of secondary pitches, or atleast that their still not entirely major league ready. I have to question that though, because you can’t just get by with a fastball and dominate like he has in AA and AAA. There also conflicting reports about it — some say his changeup is good second pitch, while others cite that both his slider and change need work.
In April and May, he had 46 strikeouts and 15 walks, a 3.1 ratio, which was great considering his age/level.
In June-July-August, he’s got 58 strikeouts and only 10 walks, a 5.8 ratio, and roughly half of that was at Triple-A.
All the scouting in the world can’t rebut those kinds of peripherals. It’s like, he could be pitching a perfect game in the world series, and some guy is still going, I don’t know, his changeup isn’t really anything special.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 4, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree, and given his age, he’s ahead of the curve. To me he displays FOR potential, especially if his offspeed stuff improves. BA dropped the ball on him imo, and maybe they’re afraid to admit it (???)
Best point of the day. Results are results, are they not? If the guy wins, who cares how he is getting guys out—be it an “average” changeup or an “amazing” changeup. If the guy uses it effectively and gets outs….it doesn’t matter.
by MooneysRebellion on Aug 4, 2009 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I think results in the context of strong peripherals are very important. Sowers produced results in the minors and his first partial year in the majors, and look at him now. There were peripheral indications all along that suggested he couldn’t keep it up
good point…I may stand corrected. Thank you for pointing that out….kind of forgotten about jeremy.
by MooneysRebellion on Aug 4, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Sowers did not have peripherals like Rondon, though.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 4, 2009 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ve seen his last two starts in Columbus. He seemed to work on the slider and change a lot. I was surprised to see his fastball around 89-91 most of the time, though it did hit 94 a couple times and 95 once.
Maybe he’s got more than one fastball working?
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 4, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
It could be that it’s going to take major league hitters to force him to get there. The guy’s pitching for a promotion; if I knew I had a pitch that AAA hitters were going to flail at, I’d be throwing it all day long myself. Hector’s gotta be thinking, I’ve got lots of time to refine my change-up in the Mexican winter league.
by fleerdon on Aug 4, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
It amazes me that Weglarz has gone down on the list considering the numbers he’s putting up
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Aug 4, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Not to mention the offers of limbs in exchange for his services.
by Logodaedalus on Aug 4, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
In July, Wegz drew 20 walks. He struck out 9 times. He couldn’t buy a hit and he was still putting up a 430 OBP.
AAA, plz.
by fleerdon on Aug 4, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously. His bat may challenged by AA pitchers, but his eye clearly is not. It may be that he’ll have trouble developing further as a hitter at any minor league level.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 4, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, he has a great eye. I’m wondering about his ability to make contact though. Note: This is not about strikeouts.
here’s my own top 10 just for fun:
1. Carlos Santana ©
2. Matt LaPorta (LF/1B)
3. Hector Rondon (RHP)
4. Lonnie Chisenhall (3B)
5. Jason Knapp (RHP)
6. Nick Hagadone (LHP)
7. Nick Weglarz (LF/DH)
8. Kelvin De La Cruz (LHP)
9. Carlos Carrasco (RHP)
10. T.J. House (LHP)
I excluded White because he hasn’t signed yet, otherwise I’d put him ahead of Carrasco. I’m really high on De La Cruz despite the injury (he would’ve been top 5 imo without it), because of results and upside.
anyway, it’s not worth a whole lot, but fun to do.
Interesting House stats
ERA: 2.92
FIP: 3.96
FIP Accouting for Luck and park factors: 4.65
Not sure what this means but its interesting.
Another thought. I’d love to hear what the front office thinks of Carrasco. The main point that sticks out every time I read about him is his poor makeup. I’d imagine that the Indians either don’t think its a big deal or they think its fixable.
It doesn’t seem like them to pick a player with bad makeup
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
no it doesn’t, and I wonder how much of his struggles are mental instead of mechanical? I’ve read some reports that he doesn’t pitch well with runners on base. Is that because he gets flustered or because he struggles throwing from the stretch?
I read that too. It also applies with RISP. Though the PK/LK factors make his numbers look a fair amount better
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Aug 3, 2009 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Wedge will put him in the bullpen and use him only in 11-0 ballgames.
This is Victor's home. Victor Jose, you too.
After years of under-talented, overplayed grinders, I would really, really like to see us accumulate some players with :bad make-up".
Stuart Dean
I don’t know. It could be a little scary.
by AngG on Aug 4, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Looks like Feliz was called up, and is delivering
2 perfect innings with 4 K’s.
This is Victor's home. Victor Jose, you too.
On a semi-related note, over the weekend Keith Law listed his top 10 list of traded propects, 4 of the 10 are current Indians:
http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=4371230&name=law_keith
2. Nick Hagadone, LHP, from Boston to Cleveland
7. Jason Knapp, RHP, from Philadelphia to Cleveland
8. Carlos Carrasco, RHP, from Philadelphia to Cleveland
10. Bryan Price, RHP, from Boston to Cleveland
by millionairesrow on Aug 4, 2009 12:27 PM EDT reply actions
I don’t think this is worth a fan-shot, but this is why I want us to have a crazy-good defense (infield especially):
"I started to watch a batter’s hands and feet, his elbow and shoulders, his swing pass. Then, depending on your pitcher and what pitch he’s about to throw, you know what the hitter is most likely to do," he said.
"I got good enough that in Pittsburgh, they let me set the infield defense. I moved an outfielder one time and one of the coaches asked why. I showed him the video of the hitter’s first swing and said, ‘Look at that. There’s no way he was going to be able to pull a ball with that swing.’ After that, they trusted me."
Get on it ’drubs
Jack Z appears to be obsessed with defense. The acquisition of Wilson makes a lot of sense in this case.
Another reason I want to sign Endy Chavez during the offseason
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Aug 4, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Just wanted to pass this Tony Lastoria tidbit on:
Only posting this here and not on the front page or any Twitter updates (yet)….but I have it on good authority that the Indians and White already have the parameters worked out on a deal and have really had one since they drafted him. He WILL be an Indian. The reason why the signing has not been announced is because the Indians are waiting until close to the deadline since they signed him for over slot.
he posted it on the message boards of his site.
This was always the working assumption.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 4, 2009 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
There is no reason to think they passed on Porcello because he wanted more than slot. There is every reason to think they passed on him because they simply felt he wasn’t worth the money. Major league deals for amateurs are basically always a bad idea.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 4, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I would have put him on a pedestal, where he belongs.
by fleerdon on Aug 4, 2009 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Make sure that pedestal can handle size. He’s still growing!
by MTF on Aug 4, 2009 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
he’s my favorite indians prospect. I used to think it was going to be Mills
by I'd give my legs for Wegz on Aug 4, 2009 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
It is a very, very good thing that you switched. "I’d give my legs for Mills " would have had a weird ex-Mrs. McCartney thing to it…
Stuart Dean
by stuart dean on Aug 4, 2009 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
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