Shapiro interview with Castrovince
While not without some characteristic Shap-speak, Shapiro speaks with considerable frankness about a lot of issues regarding the remainder of the season, the off-season, and next season. Definitely worth a watch. (FallsTribeFan with the initial link)
over 2 years ago
APV
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i watched the first 6 or 7 minutes of it earlier but had to do something else and closed the window. now, it won’t let me skip to where i was until it loads to that point. Hopefully this thread tells me what I missed.
This is Victor's home. Victor Jose, you too.
I couldn’t navigate around in Firefox, but I could in Safari.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 7, 2009 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
It partially seems like crap, considering they could shut down Sizemore and get him to the operating table, and thus have room for LaPorta. But, if they are going to wait until after the season to have the surgery done, then I guess it does make sense. Masterson is obviously someone we want to get a good look at, and he will need some time (and the extra guys in the bullpen until he is ready)…BUT, we also need to see an extended look at LaPorta. I don’t know…its a tough situation.
by MooneysRebellion on Aug 7, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I understand the defensive issue, but that’s why Crowe is here. He should be able to play everyday for the rest of the year, right? Put him in CF, and LaPorta in LF. Get Grady to the operating room and lets be done with the elbow issue.
by MooneysRebellion on Aug 7, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
And who backs up Crowe?
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 7, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
A little of both.
But if their premise is that we need two center fielders, then putting Grady on the DL doesn’t open a spot for LaPorta. Their logic, not mine. I think the whole thing is stupid. I don’t care if Choo backs up Grady, or for that matter Carroll. Hell, throw Laffey out there, I hear he’s athletic.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 7, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Laffey could come in mid-game because he warms up so damn fast!
Stuart Dean
by stuart dean on Aug 7, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There you go.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 7, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Coach Jack Leggett on Tony:
“Tony is a pitcher/outfielder who can do both. He’s either going to do some starting pitching or closing. He also could be one of those guys we run out there in the outfield. He has great versatility. He’s a lefthanded hitter who can run. He’s very aggressive on the bases. He’s going to get a lot of innings in the outfield as well as a lot of innings on the mound. He’s very aggressive with a strong slider. He has a good fastball and good feel for a changeup. He’s one of our most exciting new players.”
So yeah he’ll do.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
I thought Castrovince did a fine job in this interview, though this is one thing I wish that he had specifically pressed Shapiro on. I’d like to hear his rationale on this point.
It’s kind of creepy, the way he stares at Shapiro while listening to him, no blinking or nodding.
by cleveland teamer on Aug 7, 2009 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
One thing that I thought was interesting is that Shapiro seemed to talk as though Marson might be the primary catcher in the first half on next season. It sounds like Shoppach may no longer be part of their plans.
I think it is clear that Shoppach is not a part of our plans beyond mid-season next year…and with a more likely off-season trade.
Yeah… though doesn’t this make it more puzzling that they aren’t starting him regularly, then? It seems like they would get best value if they shopped him as a quality starter, based on his 2008 campaign. But if this is true, shouldn’t he be, like, starting now?
Seems less than genuine somehow.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 7, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe he was trying to hit popups so at least he could play in the OF sometimes.
This is Victor's home. Victor Jose, you too.
by westbrook on Aug 7, 2009 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is, once again, Wedge running down the value of a club asset by leaving him on the bench.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Either because he doesn’t believe in micro-managing in that regard, or because he has no problem with what Wedge is doing.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 7, 2009 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m guessing he doesn’t want to micro-manage. But in this case he really should. Or Wedge should be smart enough to figure it out on his own.
This is what I’ve been saying since at least May of last year.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 7, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
In the interview with Castrovince, Shapiro indicated that Wedge is still involved in discussions about the longer-term direction of the team. Considering that the FO has publicly stated that 1) Marte is getting a trial to judge whether his recent success will translate into the big leagues, and 2) that Marson will likely be the primary catcher next year, I assume these issues were talked about between Shapiro and Wedge. So WHY are Marte and Shoppach sitting at all? The management of playing time this season by Wedge has been extremely frustrating, but I’m increasingly irritated with Shapiro for tolerating it. I don’t really think it would be micromanaging to say to Wedge: I want Shoppach and Marte in the lineup, every day, barring injury.
I agree that it’s very likely Shoppach is getting traded, possibly even this month and very likely before March. So let’s start with that as a working assumption.
There is a case to be made that Shoppach’s value in the market is already set, and that nothing that happens in the final two months will change it more than a micrometer. Many GMs are smart enough to base their decisions on long-term track records, but (a) not all of them, and (b) with Shoppach there is sort of a tipping point situation, where he might be one thing (a very good starting catcher) and he might be another thing (a middling defender and utterly exploitable hitter), and a good or bad month could cement that impression in one direction or another. That’s my sense, but obviously I’m not in the industry, talking to evaluators and GMs.
If that is what they think, then sure, let’s get as good of a look at Gimenez and Toregas as we can. How helpless is Toregas at the plate? Can we live with Gimenez as our only backup catcher? And so forth. There is an evaluative imperative there to compete with the desire to prop up Shoppach’s trade value. Personally, if they were going to do that, I think they should have just sent Shoppach down at some point to re-tool his swing. (Who knows, maybe they tried to get him through special waivers earlier in the season and had to pull him back.)
With Marte, there really is no argument. There is no need to see Gimenez at first base, and oddly enough, they have not used him at 3B. To a great extent, I think they already know what they have in Jhonny, on the field and at the plate. Do they want to let Jhonny continue to drive his value up by improving his seasonal stats? Perhaps. Is it possible that they already know that they want Marte for 2010 and don’t really need to evaluate? Plausible, but a little hard to believe. Unless you’re already sold on Marte and want to drive up Jhonny’s trade value, there’s no intelligent reason not to play Marte literally every day.
Understand, I agree with you completely, just trying to make the reasonable case for the other side.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 7, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you, and you’re welcome.
One thing I forgot to mention, it may also be that Wedge wants to see as much of Gimenez as he can right now, because once LaPorta’s up, he’s playing every day. Whatever that means.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 7, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw the length of this post and just assumed that indiansfan had written it.
by Chemo on Aug 7, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oh, I can compete with Joe on comment length, I just don’t do it as often.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 7, 2009 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Depends on the metric.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 7, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There is a case to be made that Shoppach’s value in the market is already set, and that nothing that happens in the final two months will change it more than a micrometer.
It seems likely Shapiro looked into Shoppach’s trade value during the past offseason, and was not impressed by the level of interest. Shoppach has shown no signs of improving on his 2008 numbers (or even matching them). Unless he goes on a Garkoesque tear for the final two months of 2009 (which appears unlikely), his value can only go down.
There is, as Jay says, potential for upside with Torregas and Gimenez. And, apparently, the possible value to be found there exceeds the perceived value of Shoppach. I don’t see the imperative to play Shoppach every day, because the likelihood is slim that he will turn into Johnny Bench for the final two months.
No, there is no potential for upside with those two guys, just a chance to watch them try to perform at this level. The upside of those two is only whether they can hack it as big-league bench players on the cheap.
Shoppach’s value can’t really go down at this point, and as for “improving on his 2008 numbers,” nobody short of Joe Mauer is going to do that.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 7, 2009 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s more upside with Torregas and Gimenez than there is for Shop, and that is simply, as you say, they develop into cheap big-league bench players. That’s more than we can say of Shop (who becomes expensive). I agree there is no way he improves on his 2008 numbers, and I don’t see him ever matching them again.
You may not see it, but obviously if he did it before, it’s possible he does it again, barring any health issue. That’s your upside. Shoppach under arbitration even approaching his 2008 level is a far better value than any utility player ever could be.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 7, 2009 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
He is exactly 225 PA and 100 points of OPS away from 2008. Not really a way’s off.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Yeah, as much as we’ve talked about how Shoppach has sucked this year, he actually hasn’t been terrible. After last night’s performance, Shoppach is 10th in wOBA (.342) amongst catchers with at least 100 PAs. It certainly isn’t 2008 production, but it isn’t garbage. It’d be really nice to see him get 35-40 starts the remainder of the season.
So, wait, You’re telling me he’s actually good?
From the Plain Dealer:
“Obviously, it’s been a tough year offensively for me,” Shoppach said. "I played a lot last year and got exposed a little bit. I’ve had a tough time with righties this year. Lefties have been OK.
“They made an adjustment. I have to adjust back. That’s the game.”
Player quotes aren’t the best way to support your cause. I don’t expect the majority of players to fully understand their own value, when batting average is probably the preferred metric amongst that crowd
It’s a good time to be waving the Shoppach banner.
But, as his quote indicates, he has a sense of what’s going on. OPSing .638 against righties and 1.191 against lefties. He’s had an insane two-week stretch, slugging .810 on a .584 BABIP. Such compressed periods of brilliance were used (rightfully, I believe) to diminish the season numbers of Ryan Garko.
I don’t relish the role of Shoppach naysayer, but there sure is a lot of subjectivity surrounding the man. Is he a better offensive player than Kevin Cash? Sure. So, then, we must admit he’s not terrible. Okay. But there were months of atrocious performance preceding his recent hot streak. Much as with Peralta, it’s getting to the point where one can no longer overlook the extended periods of suck.
The argument all along has been that Shoppach as not as bad as the naysayers want us to believe though. No one here has been on a crusade to get Shoppach every day playing time, just to get others to direct their anomisity elsewhere. What makes Shoppach so much more valuable than Garko is the fact that he plays Catcher, and he was of course, only a part-time catcher until a week ago.
You have conceded my point to me by admitting Shoppach is better than you make him out to be, but want to re-paint the debate now by making it seem like you are the rationale one that only views him as an ok player.
No one here has been on a crusade to get Shoppach every day playing time,
I believe Jay has said this. Get Shoppach his reps and he’ll be very good.
What initially amazed me about the irrational LGT love for Shoppach were (a) the claims (based on his 2008 Eqa) that he was actually one of the best power hitters in the AL and (b) the assertions that he would start for most of the other teams in the majors. Both of these seem to be unreasoned assertions.
Shoppach, in my assessment, is not terrible. But he’s not an everyday player.
You are cherry-picking. I am confident no one actually believed at any point last year or ever that Shoppach was one of the best power hitters in the league.
The argument from my point of view, has always been that given every day playing time, Shoppach will be an above average hitting catcher. I still believe this to be true. I believed it to be true during Shoppach’s worst slump, as evidenced by the fact that we had this same debate in May.
Once he assumed an everyday role around June 1 last year … Shoppach led the American League in Isolated Power. Let that sink in for a moment. He led the league in power hitting for four whole months. Now of course he’s unlikely to do that again, not at that level. But anyone who could even do that once obviously is a good enough hitter to be an everyday catcher.
What Jay said.
This isn’t “Shoppach’s worst slump.” He OPS’d 678 in 120 plate appearances in 2006. It’s cherry season. We pointedly ignore his extended slumps and point to his hot streaks as evidence of his ability.
In part because the hot streaks involve 3-4 times as large of a sample, but it’s clear by now you pay that no mind.
Again, the positional value is what you’re missing here. There is less offensive expectation out of a catcher than out of any other position. That he led the league for any amount of time in ISO would be impressive even were he, like Garko, a mediocre defender at 1B. The expectations on a catcher are minimal enough that he, in total honesty, ought to be able to dine out on his 2008 numbers for at least 1000 mediocre plate appearances, and he hasn’t had nearly that.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 8, 2009 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I do think that Garko also benefitted from more regular reps, which is was I have prescribed for Shoppach. Garko may well be the better all-around hitter, but as he lacks any other value, the bar ought to be set much, much higher for him.
I feel that much of the whole disconnect, in fact, revolves around an under-appreciation of positional value, which may also be described as an under-estimation of how much better Garko should be required to be over Shoppach as a hitter in order to be valued the same. Shoppach’s worst is a 699 OPS over 200-odd plate appearances. That is simply not that bad, and it’s considerably better than being a mediocre defender at 1B with a 780 OPS — which is not even Garko’s nadir.
Have there been months of atrocious performance? Really? When? I submit to you that Shoppach has performed atrociously only in very, very small samples of sporadic work. His first half of 2009 was not atrocious, as anyone who groks meaningful offensive stats and positional value should understand.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 8, 2009 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Adam, Jay, agreed. But it also must be said that for a guy with the power that he has (the ball rockets off his bat), to carry a slugging percentage of under .400 into August IS really disappointing.
My quote was in response to this:
So, wait, You’re telling me he’s actually good?
Shoppach’s SLG% isn’t good, but that’s because he can’t hit a single to save his life, and therefore his batting average sucks. His ISO is .196, which isn’t bad, and is less than 20 points off his career major league average. Also just 20 points off his career minor league average. His power isn’t his problem…his ability to make regular contact and put the ball in play is, and has always been, his problem.
by APV on Aug 9, 2009 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for making the points I was going to make. Saw the comments above your post earlier today, but thought I would respond when I had more time tonight. There were assumptions being made, and while they may be right, there are other possible explanations for the reduced playing time.
However, when you and I were debating Shoppach’s playing time last week, you stated you didn’t think he would get traded. Has the playing-time distribution from the past week changed your mind?
That and the $16 million figure.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 8, 2009 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
“… and with the number of corner [infield] players coming up we feel good about, particularly Mills and LaPorta amongst others…”
Talking about the rationale for trading Victor and the club viewing him primarily as a 1B.
So, it seems they view LaPorta as primarily a 1B as well. That’s a little disappointing.
“Corner players” is a pretty general term.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 7, 2009 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
So, it seems they view LaPorta as primarily a 1B as well. That’s a little disappointing.
I continue to read this as how much they like Brantley. Have we heard a single negative comment from the FO or coaching staff all season about Brantley? I still say he’s going to be given a chance to be our starting LFer April 1 next year.
by APV on Aug 7, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
are you just posting all your predictions today so that they will be easier to find in a power search some time down the road?
BOOO THOME!
I said this a few days ago…there’s just a lot of looking forward going on at the moment, which makes predictions a fairly natural thing
by APV on Aug 7, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Right. And he won’t be ready next spring, either. And when he is ready, my impression is that they might well stick him in CF, moving Grady to LF.
by ken from alexandria on Aug 7, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I say they’ll make a show of giving him a chance, but in truth, he’s a late-2010 or 2011 guy.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 7, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
That has less to do with PR and more to do with giving certain players their due respect per the established baseball etiquette.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 7, 2009 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Will LaPorta play LF at all or is he banished to 1B?
Seems like a shame to run down the value of a player by banishing him to 1B…or leaving him in AAA, but that’s besides the point.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Aug 7, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Well in response to why LaPorta is not up now he mentioned two reasons (need for 13 pitchers and need for the LF to be able to play CF to back up Grady’s elbow). In that context he seemed adamant that LaPorta would be given a lot of PT at LF once he comes up. He also stated that once he does come up, and the latest that would happen is 9/1, he expects him to play (almost) every day.
Well, we all know Wedge’s definition, that’s for darned sure.
by MooneysRebellion on Aug 7, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I love that Shap said he doesn’t want to put a timetable on Santana, and then immediately did so by saying something along the lines of “he could be ready for April but might take as long as June or July”. So, Mark fully expects Santana to be here in 2010. Awesome.
Well, the other factor there would be the performance of the team in 2010, no? I mean, if he needs some more time to make those last adjustments, and the team’s in the hunt, I don’t see them bringing him up for kicks.
by fleerdon on Aug 7, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
In that unlikely event, there is a pretty good chance that Santana would represent a potential upgrade for his bat alone at more than one position.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 7, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Could be that the FO projection in 2010 midyear is Santana/Marson. So, the Giminez/Toregas show is an extended audition for Cleveland and any other team willing to make a trade.
featuring the curses of Bobby Bragan and Rocky Colavito
I really don’t think that’s it. It makes no sense to showcase either guy for a trade, because neither guy will make significant money or be more valuable to someone else than he is to us.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 7, 2009 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Say we have 5 catchers. There might be another club that needs some depth at that position and willing to trade something for either of them. Even if that’s a young AA guy with some upside coming off the DL, it’s worth more to us than our fifth catcher. But, primarily, I agree that this audition is to find out whether one or more of these guys can be a useful bench player for us.
featuring the curses of Bobby Bragan and Rocky Colavito
Even if that’s a young AA guy with some upside coming off the DL, it’s worth more to us than our fifth catcher.
That is certainly true, it’s just not something you’d put a high priority on finding out.
I think we’re close enough.
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 7, 2009 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know if this has been posted but here it is anyways.
Plain Dealer Indians beat writer Paul Hoynes will sit down with Shapiro on Tuesday for an exclusive video interview, and the GM has agreed to field a handful of questions from Tribe fans.
Just post your question in the comments section below. Hoynsie will select the best and bring them to the interview to ask Shapiro for his response.
Watch for the video to post sometime Tuesday evening at www.cleveland.com/tribe.
Fan in Texas
Castrovince is pretty intimidating with that expressionless stare.
by Cleveland Indians on Aug 7, 2009 5:50 PM EDT reply actions
Something that hasn’t been mentioned in this thread:
He feels Santana is prob ready offensively but needs to work on calling games especially b/c English is his second language.
This is Victor's home. Victor Jose, you too.
It’s not ¿Qué?, it’s ¿Como?
Well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by Jay on Aug 7, 2009 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
not if we go with Carrasco, Carmona and Rondon in the rotation. Marson can catch Laffey and Huff (after Westbrook has been traded) while Santana subs in on Hafner’s off-days as DH.
by APV on Aug 7, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
then he strikes out the next two batters. 5 outs, all Ks.
by APV on Aug 7, 2009 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
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