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Fire Everyone! - Carl Willis

"Basically, Justersonster, you only get to be good for one year as long as I'm your coach.  So which year is it going to be?"

More photos » Rob Carr - AP

"Basically, Justersonster, you only get to be good for one year as long as I'm your coach. So which year is it going to be?"

This is the third installment in a 12-part series.

The case is simple:  Our pitching stinks, fire the pitching coach.

While we've seen consistently good-to-great lineups for the past four years or so, our rotation has gone from a wonderfully deep collection of quality pitchers to an utter wasteland.  As for our bullpens, the words "historically bad" have been used — without hyperbole — to describe four of the last six.

In fairness to Willis, a recap is in order of some truly great pitching Indians fans have seen under his watch:

  • CC Sabathia (2003), Jake Westbrook (2004) and Cliff Lee (2005) all emerged as young quality starters in Willis' first three seasons with the club.
  • Veterans Brian Anderson (2003) and Scott Elarton (2004) had solid bounce-back seasons.
  • Injury-plagued Kevin Millwood (2005) won the AL ERA title in his only season with Willis, and Carl Pavano (2009) returned from a four-year hiatus to become an above-average starter.
  • Rafael Betancourt emerged as one of the few consistently good middle relievers in the game.
  • The 2005 staff led the league in ERA and allowed just 3.96 runs per game.  The club essentially made it through the season using only five starters, and it was essentially just as steady and stable in 2006.
  • The 2005 bullpen in particular led the league in ERA and WHIP by significant margins and might have been the best in club history.
  • Sabathia emerged as a true ace late in the 2005 season, producing Cy Young-caliber seasons in 2007 and 2008.
  • Fausto Carmona (2007) produced a Cy Young-caliber season while barely more than a rookie.
  • Cliff Lee (2008) produced a dominant, historic season, including a unanimous Cy Young award, and one of the most remarkable comeback stories the game has ever seen.

It is an impressive list of accomplishments — which just makes it all the more amazing that there's a good case for firing the guy.    On a macro level, the bullpen has been the runaway leading culprit in the trademark early-season collapses of the Wedge era.  If it weren't for those four horrendous bullpens, in fact, there likely would never have been any talk whatsoever about Wedge's teams starting slow.

Despite many seemingly fine internal candidates, he has never been able to cultivate a closer.  Jason Davis and Fernando Cabrera withered away to nothing, and Jensen Lewis seems to be following not far behind them.  A long list of pitchers have arrived in Cleveland ready to compete and even dominate — Carmona, Davis, Cabrera, Sowers, Perez, Lewis — and then, at some point before they hit the two-year mark, they just lose it.  Too many of the Indians' best young pitchers seem to forget how to pitch completely, or they lose the ability to do what made them successful.  And when they forget, Willis seems utterly unable to remind them.

Time after time, we see pitchers shipped down to the minors to reconstruct their games.  This is in part a practical necessity, but at some point the question must be asked:  Isn't the pitching coach supposed to help the pitchers, you know, pitch better?

Star-divide

You may not be surprised to learn that, at least from an outside perspective, Willis' minor league résumé is almost vanishingly thin.  Looking at the rosters for 1997 Watertown, 1998 Burlington and 1999 Columbus (Ga.), there is an amazing lack of major league talent.  Sabathia made eight starts for those clubs as he breezed through the minors, and Tim Drew and Ryan Drese each made a few starts for them.  But as for the pitchers who spent significant time with Willis in the low minors, however, not a single one ever had a significant big-league career.  The 2000 Aeros allow Willis to claim some credit for Danys Baez's development, and he did coach Zach Day for eight starts.  Think about that:  eight starts with Zach Day is Willis' second most impressive work product for those four seasons in the minors.

Willis moved up to Buffalo with Wedge for the 2001 and 2002 seasons, and he moved up to Cleveland with Wedge in 2003.  Naturally, Willis couldn't help but work with future major leaguers once he was working in Triple-A, but even so, the list is pretty thin.  He had 12 starts with then-prospect Westbrook and another eight with Lee.  Other than that, Willis' minor league highlights are led by names like Tim Drew, Mike Bacsik and Sean DePaula.

In fairness, it was this exact, astonishing dearth of talent that led the Indians to blow up the team in 2002, and in no way am I suggesting that it's Willis' fault that there was so little talent there to work with.  Still, after six years in the minors, you would hope that there would be more tangible things to point to — some pitcher, anyone, who developed into a good major leaguer, largely under Willis' tutelage — but that pitcher doesn't seem to exist.  It seems that Willis owes his presence in the majors largely if not entirely to the judgment of Eric Wedge, and one shudders to consider what qualities Willis had that Wedge felt made him the best guy to be the Indians pitching coach.  Is Carl Willis a grinder?  Was Wedge hoping that Willis would "run into one?"  Is he, in fact, the Ryan Garko of pitching coaches?

Even Willis' accomplishments fade under closer inspection.  Sabathia is a unique and protean talent who arrived as a reasonably effective starting pitcher in the majors at the age of 20.  You would expect an exceptional young talent like him to progress somewhat in his first few years, to have occasional setbacks, and eventually to emerge as one of the game's top pitchers.  Willis deserves credit for helping Sabathia fulfill his potential, but it did take six years for it to happen, and when they started their fourth season together in 2006, it still hadn't happened.  Durability aside, it would be a stretch to say that Sabathia exceeded expectations once Willis arrived.

Lee presents a similar mixed bag, as a prospect whose ceiling was always seen as a number-one starter.  Again, the natural tendency is to credit Willis for some portion of Lee's miraculous rise from the gutter in 2008.  The problem comes when you ask, who was Lee's pitching coach when his career careened off into that gutter in the first place?  Who was his coach when his very fine 2005 season turned into a thoroughly mediocre 2006, followed by 2007, when Lee fell entirely off the depth chart?  Did the Indians, on balance, get as much out of Lee as was expected, from 2005 through 2008?  Even if the answer is "yes," Willis' work with Lee doesn't seem to be an overwhelming positive on the balance sheet.

And then there's the Boys of 2007: Carmona, Jensen Lewis and Rafael Perez.  Carmona's odd odyssey in 2006 is well documented, but he seemed to arrive in 2007 as an Instant Ace.  I'd like to give Willis some credit for this, but when a veteran slugger says Carmona's power sinker is like a bad hangover, it's not clear how much credit can be given to coaching.  Lewis and Perez each arrived mid-season in 2007, propelled by months of dominance in the high minors, and they kept right on going, dominating AL hitters all the way down the stretch.  Lewis has struggled to pitch consistently in 2008 and 2009.  Perez was a solid reliever in 2008 and has been arguably the worst reliever in the major leagues this season.  Both relievers collapsed despite not having any notable injury problems.  As for Carmona, he may well be the single most brutally disappointing player Indians fans have followed this decade.

Among the three pitchers, these three facts seem consistent:

  1. They arrived and performed at the very high level portended by their track records.
  2. Willis played no significant role in their development as prospects.
  3. They have all totally collapsed since their first full seasons in the majors.

Without breakout performances from Perez and Lewis in 2007, we'd be talking about four historically awful bullpens in four consecutive seasons, rather than in just three seasons out of the last four.  Following the 2006 debacle, the Indians spent relatively heavily on bullpen options, bringing in Hernandez, Fultz, and Borowski for 2007.  Masa Kobayashi was brought in to fortify what was viewed as promising core in 2008, which turned into another debacle.  Topping prior efforts, the Indians acquired Kerry Wood and Joe Smith for 2009 — once again hoping to bolster a solid core of Betancourt, Perez and Lewis — and the Triple-A club was stocked with solid minor league free agents and a few dominating prospects, led by Tony Sipp.  Yet once again, the bullpen crumbled completely and tanked the season early.

Reliever performances are maddeningly hard to project — functionally impossible in fact — but it should be clear at this point that small samples alone cannot explain the wild swings in performance for pitchers like Lewis and Perez.  No scout would claim they are the same pitchers they were in 2007, or that Carmona is.  At one point, they knew how to pitch successfully, and now, they don't.  One wonders if within the next few years, their careers will become just as insubstantial as those who came before them, like Davis and Cabrera.

If the bullpen is any significant part of Willis' responsibilities, then his performance must be considered a failure at this point.  The best we can say for the man's tenure with the Indians is that for the most elite pitching talent, in their prime, he has helped them to achieve their potential, and he has helped a few rehabbed retreads put together some nice make-good seasons.  Both of these types of contributions have been very useful to the club.  For pitchers who were not already established, however, and not elite talents coming out of the minors, the overall pitching productivity under Willis has been simply abysmal.

One more factor worth considering is the availability of Leo Mazzone, the well-known pitching coach for the 1990s Atlanta Braves.  In addition to coaching three pitchers to six Cy Young awards, Mazzone is also the subject of a comparative statistical study that showed that pitchers coached by him tended to lower their ERA by an average of half a run.  Neither of these facts are conclusive as to Mazzone's true ability, but then, nothing ever is when it comes to coaches.  We can't know for sure how much good or harm Willis has done, or how much of the Braves' immense pitching success was owed to Mazzone.  Clubs have to make decisions in the absence of real certainty, with coaches just as much as players.

It may seem callous (and even "un-Shapiro") to kick Willis to the curb just because someone better is available.  Maybe it is callous.  It's also the kind of thing that organizations do when they're serious about competing.  We could badly use a coach with a knack for turning fringy pitchers into decent major league starters and relievers — and by "we" I mean "Jeremy Sowers and David Huff."  Mazzone has shown that knack, and Willis hasn't.  Under the current leadership, if the Indians have the worst bullpen in the majors next season, not one person will be able to claim surprise.  Maybe Willis has done nothing to cause those disasters, but he certainly hasn't prevented them.  Whatever his accomplishments here, it's time to fire the pitching coach.

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Comments

Display:

i suppose it’s good no one has been able to subsequently fix the likes of davis and ferd

by Brick. on Sep 14, 2009 1:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Did Mazzone get a crack at Ferd in Baltimore?

by gte619n on Sep 14, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it looks like only a little bit in ’07

by Brick. on Sep 14, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m no expert, but the talk in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution when Mazzone left for Baltimore was that while he was great with established and exceptionally talented pitchers like Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz, he had less success with younger pitchers, especially ones who lacked confidence. Apparently Mazzone belied his dugout demeanor by being incredibly aggressive and profane with pitchers who couldn’t hit the outside corner consistently—the basis of his pitching instruction—and some young pitchers wilted rather than thrived under his tutelage.

Take that for what it’s worth. There were no complaints about Mazzone for years, that I recall, when things were going well, and there may have been some sour grapes that he chose to leave and rejoin his boyhood friend in Baltimore.

by Deep South Ken on Sep 14, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you follow the link on his name above, I think you’ll find something on the subject that is a lot less conjecture-based than that. All pitching coaches will have hits and misses with prospects; the question comes down to an overall track record.

by Jay on Sep 14, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough. Well said.

by Deep South Ken on Sep 14, 2009 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I recall, when Willis was selected there were a lot of fans who were leery, because of his thin resume.

If Wedge goes, Willis goes, right? I hope this is a moot point then.

If you believe it's just a game, you're also probably wondering why Santa keeps skipping your house every year.

by LeftyCatcher on Sep 14, 2009 2:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I personally don’t think that Willis goes unless Wedge goes. And if Wedge going is what it takes to get Willis out of here, then get to steppin’ Wedgie!! Someone, PLEASE tell me that they will not keep Willis if Wedge goes!!

Tribe in '09!!

by indiansfan20062000 on Sep 15, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m sold.

So, Radinsky’s wiki page says he took over as Bisons pitching coach in 2007. Whom did he replace? And does whoever that is get the credit for the early success of Carmona, Lewis and Perez in the majors?

by still ill on Sep 14, 2009 2:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not all the credit, but some of it. For the great majority of major league pitchers, you’re going to find that they started at least 20 games each for maybe three different pitching coaches. So it isn’t about assigning all the credit to one guy. At the same time, Carl Willis is one of those three guys for Danys Baez, and maybe for Jake Westbrook, and that’s about it.

by Jay on Sep 14, 2009 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

To answer your other question, Greg Hibbard was the Buffalo pitching coach in 2005 and 2006. In 2007, Hibbard went to Akron and Radinsky went from Akron to Buffalo. At the time, it was believed that Hibbard was going to Akron to work his left-handed magic on Scott Lewis and Chuck Lofgren, while Radinsky was accompanying the fictional Adam Miller to AAA.

by FredOx on Sep 14, 2009 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

From May 2008:

“What I’m doing is sitting here dying to get back into baseball again,” Mazzone said. “When spring training hit, it was the first time in 40 years I wasn’t on the baseball field. It affected me pretty good.”

“I’ve let it be known to general managers in the big leagues that money is not an issue. I don’t want them thinking it is,” he said. “I’m ready to bounce whenever somebody calls. I’ll have my bags packed in 10 minutes.”

Also! Dave Duncan?

by cleveland teamer on Sep 14, 2009 2:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

so quiet. LGT is such a football town.

by Brick. on Sep 14, 2009 3:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe we should fire the Browns.

by Jay on Sep 14, 2009 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They have been fired, but we still watch.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 14, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

would be a better impact than any of the others. it occurs to me fans of the 90’s teams should not be allowed to hate Art.

by Brick. on Sep 14, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Two things I know.
*I love baseball and the Cleveland Indians
*Art Modell is a very very bad man

by APV on Sep 14, 2009 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

This. 1000X this. If anything, the second thing is stated more kindly than I would have done.

"But people are stupid, and their memories are short." - FredOx

by woodsmeister on Sep 15, 2009 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m a fan of the 90’s teams and I will hate Art Modell until the day I die. I recently tried to convince some local Richmonders that the Ravens were the devil incarnate and they shouldn’t buy into a season ticket pool even if the Redskins were the soulless corporate embodiment of Daniel Snyder, Inc. I failed.

by FredOx on Sep 14, 2009 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There’s another Cleveland sports fan in Richmond?

by snaidni on Sep 15, 2009 5:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are a few of us around here, but we are rare. Mostly Red Sox, NASCAR and Virginia Tech.

by FredOx on Sep 15, 2009 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blasphemy.

Flag.

Wrong.

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 14, 2009 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it’s not without merit, though. he inadvertently did the indians a huge favor by closing his borders which allowed the indians quaint little bookshop to add on the new children’s section and in-store cafe.

by Brick. on Sep 14, 2009 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I treated your cancer by shooting your sister in the face, shouldn’t you still hate me?

by danvail on Sep 14, 2009 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m sorry, who has cancer in this analogy?

by Jay on Sep 14, 2009 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s a clear, if extreme, analogy.

Jay has cancer. I shoot Jay’s sister, which through some unintended consequence, treats Jay’s cancer into remission. I suspect that Jay would still very much want me dead, despite the “favor” I did him.

Therefor, Art Modell is a douche.

by danvail on Sep 15, 2009 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, maybe analogies are not really your bag. If I had a sister, I’d have just banned you by now.

by Jay on Sep 15, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Strange…this is the first image hit for “bag of analogies”

by APV on Sep 15, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, if you feel that strongly about it, I had no idea whether or not you have a sister.

Regardless, insensitive, unfunny, or uncouth analogies are not necessarily bad analogies.

by danvail on Sep 15, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I use a sliding scale, which helps you here, but not enough. It was a pretty weak analogy in addition to being in poor taste. In addition, the fact that it was in poor taste was in no way necessary to making a good analogy. As you would realize, if analogies were your bag.

by Jay on Sep 15, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I’ll simply say that I feel it’s a valid and even strong analogy and would welcome any critique of it without delving into appropriateness. I freely admit that it being in any way offensive was unnecessary to making a valid analogy. I’ve never been one to apologize for the sake of political correctness, but of course if anyone was genuinely upset by the comment I would apologize to them.

by danvail on Sep 15, 2009 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s not a politically correct thing, it’s more like, where the hell did THAT come from?

I like how when people reacted badly to “shooting your sister,” you doubled-down by giving me cancer. Smooth.

by Jay on Sep 15, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hah, well it wasn’t a threat. And the original comment already had the cancer thing in it. I was simply saying the anger that would result from a loved one being taken would in no way be mitigated by some tangential benefit, even if that benefit was the extension of your own life. Much like the anger from the Browns being taken was in no way mitigated by the Indians success of the 90s.

Clearly, though, you and others didn’t like the analogy. Enough said – I’ll shutup and give you the opportunity for any final criticism.

by danvail on Sep 15, 2009 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s a horrible analogy. Having a sister and being politically correct have no bearing on piss poor analogies.

by fwembt on Sep 16, 2009 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pardon me, wut?

by Brick. on Sep 15, 2009 12:01 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Terrible analogy by danvail, but gets the idea. Just because the horrific and terrible thing that Model did had a very nice side effect makes it no less horrific and terrible.

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 15, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Moving on, I think the “nice side effect” has been vastly overstated in any event.

The Indians sold out June through September in 1995, won the pennant, then sold out 1996. All of this before Modell announced plans to move the team.

Did the Browns’ impending departure help them sell season tickets in 1997? Sure. But they were coming off 100- and 99-win seasons and had already sold out games for a season and a half. Why should we think they wouldn’t have sold out 1997 anyway?

And 1998, coming off three straight titles and two pennants? Maybe by 1999 the novelty starts to wear off, but they had Robbie Alomar by that point — “an All-Star at every position,” dazzling defense up the middle and as much thunder as any lineup for a generation or more? Maybe the 1999 club doesn’t sell out every single game, but they’re still doing brisk season ticket sales, and they’re still getting plenty of walkup sales, too.

I think it’s entirely possible that even the sellout streak stretches to Opening Day 2000, which is only one year less than it stretched with the Browns gone. More to the point, even if not technically a sellout streak, I think the Indians would not have had substantially lower attendance in any of those years. I know this is not the conventional wisdom, but those Indians were pretty popular even before the Browns left.

by Jay on Sep 15, 2009 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

After tonight, I’ll be wishing I were a Browns fan.

The once and future

by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Sep 14, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It’s basically the same thing isn’t it? Bills/Browns call it whatever you want, it is torture.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 14, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, this was prescient.

The once and future

by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Sep 15, 2009 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea, I wanted to revisit this. I was thinking about this little exchange as I was watching that game unfold. Good effort at least?

by Roger Dorn on Sep 15, 2009 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m pretty fed up with moral victories at this point.

The once and future

by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Sep 15, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Totally agree. As an Indians fan, I knew you felt that way already, though.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 15, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

WOOOOOOOOOO

Dodgers, Rockies, Giants, Padres and Diamondbacks. Oh my!

by westbrook on Sep 16, 2009 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, go root for the Red Sox.

The once and future

by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Sep 17, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ouch.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Sep 17, 2009 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’ve been forced into cheating on LGT with the Cardinals blog.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Sep 14, 2009 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You were never monogamous anyway. I read VEB, but I can’t bring myself to post. It’s not really cheating if I just look.

by FredOx on Sep 14, 2009 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah but I talk a lot more now because people have abandoned the Indians for football.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Sep 14, 2009 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You old dog.

by Jay on Sep 14, 2009 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

What’s football?

"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter

by Denver Tribe Fan on Sep 14, 2009 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We call it soccer here.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Sep 14, 2009 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

In going through a quick mental trial on Willis, I was going to write off Jason Davis and Fernando Cabrera since no one else was able to get them to pitch well. But I have to wonder, by the time either got to another organization, was it too late to fix? Jason Davis had already pitched 90+ games under Willis in Cleveland. Cabrera was two years younger than Davis when he left Cleveland. But even after Cleveland, he’s always pitched well in the minors. So I may be willing to write him off as not having what it takes to pitch in the majors mentally.

In short, I think Willis and Wedge are tied together. Both should go. Shelton has legitimate reason to be kept.

by JRontherim on Sep 14, 2009 6:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Short of gunpowder, Ferd’s mechanics were unfixable…

by stuart dean on Sep 14, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wipe-out slider, but his fastball was too straight to be able to get to slider counts consistently.

by TribeJay on Sep 15, 2009 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That and he couldn’t throw the fastball for a strike.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 15, 2009 8:30 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That and he couldn’t throw the fastball for a strike.

by danvail on Sep 15, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I feel much the same way in regards to Willis, Wedge, and the idea of a co-firing. Especially given their history together, it seems as if Willis might prefer to take a job elsewhere if Wedge is canned.

by danvail on Sep 15, 2009 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m trying to figure out who the other 9 are.

Some obvious names: Toshi Nagahara and Mike Seghi. I personally blame a lot on Bob DiBiasio.

by Brick. on Sep 14, 2009 6:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You are forgetting The Datz

by stuart dean on Sep 14, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tony Amoto. Al Pawlowski. Jhonny Peralta. Dave Wallace. Actually, Dave Wallace and the Wonder Girls:

by dgcambridge on Sep 14, 2009 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Dave Wallace should never be fired.

by fwembt on Sep 16, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I second this.

Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?

by ClemsonGirl on Sep 17, 2009 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t know anything about coaching a pitcher and I don’t know anything about what makes a good pitching coach.

by Toxicadam on Sep 14, 2009 7:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think there’s another way to measure how good a pitching coach is, but unfortunately I have no way of measuring it.

When the pitching coach comes in talk to the pitcher, strategize, communicate an identified mechanical flaw, etc, shouldn’t the outcome be that the batter gets out? I have to admit that I haven’t watched much of the Indians this year, but I don’t recall many instances where the batter is retired after a visit from Willis. This year or previous years.

Sowers might (might) be a great example of what Willis IS good at: game-planning. Sowers is a smart guy too. So if Sowers can cruise along for the first 4 or 5 innings, sticking to the developed game plan they developed, then Willis (or Sowers) is doing well. But once Sowers gets bombed, maybe it’s that the hitters are adjusting and Sowers isn’t (or that Willis hasn’t noticed the adjustments the opposing hitters are making) and neither he nor Willis are able to make further adjustments. As Jay says, who can tell who’s responsible for the outcome? But it seems that this might be another way to judge Willis.

by lenred on Sep 14, 2009 7:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agree. Sowers should be our pitching coach.

by dgcambridge on Sep 14, 2009 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Kind of brutal, isn’t it? The pitching coach wouldn’t be out there in the first place if the guy wasn’t having trouble.

by fleerdon on Sep 15, 2009 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My impression is that Willis is probably an average major league pitching coach. Not horrible, but not unusually good either. As Jay’s post makes clear, he’s had some successes and he’s also had some guys who didn’t develop under his tutelage. it’s hard to imagine a pitching coach about whom you COULDN’T say that (maybe someone out there wants to pick on Chuck Hernandez?) It would be reasonable to assume that an average pitching coach gets average results. If we have below average talent (which our major league staff probably represents at the moment), then we need an above average coach to get the best out of them. That’s probably not Willis.

That’s the strongest argument I can muster for firing him, anyway.

by peter m on Sep 14, 2009 7:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Great read, Jay. Purely conjecture, but does anyone here think he strategically focuses more on the starters rather than the bullpen?

by fg28 on Sep 14, 2009 9:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think he focuses on anyone. That’s why the pitching stinks.

by lenred on Sep 15, 2009 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That’s a better explanation.

by fg28 on Sep 16, 2009 3:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Has Lee ever come out and described in detail what he felt were the biggest contributing factors in his return? I’ve always gotten the feeling Lee felt he re-invented himself.

by danvail on Sep 15, 2009 3:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think Lee likes to credit himself no matter what. He doesn’t seem to be the kind of team mate that will credit others, at least not sincerely.

Tribe in '09!!

by indiansfan20062000 on Sep 15, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t get that. I actually have come to think of Lee as a pretty astute guy. I think he rightly assigns himself the bulk of the responsibility and the credit for his performance, but he’s also shown appreciation for how the organization helped him perform effectively.

I don’t really go in for all the soap opera speculation. For all the speculation, I have never seen him blame anyone but himself for how he’s performed or for any decision the Indians ever made about him. He’s only ever showed frustration over three things: (1) His own performance, (2) the lineup not scoring any runs at all, (3) not being able to talk about extending his deal with the Indians.

by Jay on Sep 15, 2009 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess it just seemed like he was more willing to give credit to the opposing lineup rather than his teammates…

Tribe in '09!!

by indiansfan20062000 on Sep 15, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

(4) Ryan Garko in the outfield.

"But people are stupid, and their memories are short." - FredOx

by woodsmeister on Sep 15, 2009 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I stand amended.

by Jay on Sep 15, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But that was clearly something Choo should have been blamed for as well

< /garko>

Dodgers, Rockies, Giants, Padres and Diamondbacks. Oh my!

by westbrook on Sep 16, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it was apparent that he was not happy with being left of the playoff team in 2007. I also think he was very tempted to be angry with the “powers that be” who made that decision, but I think he came to take full responsibility for the situation without ever having publicly insinuated any negative feelings towards the FO. I imagine that was an extremely difficult thing to do, and he should be applauded for his maturity and professionalism in that situation.

I’m simply curious as to whether or not he’s ever publicly commented on anyone in particular helping him re-invent himself.

by danvail on Sep 15, 2009 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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