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Around SBN: News And Other Updates Leading Up To Pats-Giants

Fire Everyone! - The Farm System

This is the eighth installment in a 12-part series.

Part of the Tribe's failure this year can be blamed on the reality that when players were failing to perform in April and May (and there were many), no one was there in Akron or Columbus to step up and provide at least temporary relief.  When Fausto Carmona was busy allowing 4+ runs in 10 of his first 12 starts, who was there to step up?  Sure, David Huff was there to step in and promptly allow 13 earned runs in his first 6 innings of pro ball, but who was there behind him?  And behind that guy?  And when the bullpen was busy reading up on seppuku rather than "how to record a major league out" for the first two months, was there really no one better than Matt Herges and Greg Aquino available to fill the holes?  Mark Shapiro has said nothing more frequently than the need for depth - the need to prepare for individual failures (which are inevitable) and insure against collective failures.  So where was the depth when it was needed to keep the season alive?

One explanation is that it was a failure to acquire the right talent.  This is a well hashed argument, and one which might have some validity.  There is another possibility, however, that perhaps it is not that we have failed to acquire the right talent, but instead failed to develop the talent we have properly.  Perhaps our developmental system, again one of Shapiro's trademarks on the organization has failed.  Shapiro has been lauded for installing a system based on combining traditional scouting data with rigorous quantitative assessment and emphasizing consistency throughout the system. Players are supposed to enter into the organization and hear the same things at every level.  Maybe some have been hearing the wrong things.

Trying to assess how good a developmental staff the Indians have is probably going to be a failed effort on my part.  To really do it right, you would have to compare how the Indians fare relative to other organizations.  The best hitters get out 60% of the time.  Their greatness is only visible when assessed against everyone else, who get out 69% of the time.  The success rate for prospects is much lower than either of the numbers.   I don't have time for a thorough comparative analysis, sadly.  But we can look internally at what the Tribe has done.

Star-divide

I consider the goal of the developmental staff to accomplish two things:

  • A good system should help players achieve the potential they were viewed to have when they were drafted/signed (with obvious injury caveats).
  • A great system should strive to raise the ceiling of their players, and strive to turn them into better players than other teams thought they could be.

How do they do this - I have no idea.  But I would like to think they identify weaknesses in a player's game and seek to improve on them. Have the Indians done that?  Here are some significant minor leaguers, either assessed by performance, draft or reputation, and how they've progressed (or regressed) while in the Indians system.

2003

Michael Aubrey - Injuries make his development impossible to assess

Brad Snyder - I think Snyder's failures are viewed as a contact problem. I think it is more that he didn't hit for enough power given his high strikeout rate.  Here are his K/BB rates from A+, to AA, and two years in Buffalo - 2.5, 2.5, 3, +4...that's not good.

Adam Miller - see Michael Aubrey

Javi Herrera - college defensive catcher (and 3rd round pick), never learned to hit at AA

Ryan Garko - Seems like a success story.  He's never developed a lot of power, but aside from his senior year at Stanford he never had a lot of power.

Juan Valdes - Injuries (too much coffee, no doubt)

Kevin Kouzmanoff - Kouz is a developmental success for Cleveland, a guy who raised his ceiling to the point of being trade worthy for future superstar Josh Barfield

Aaron Laffey - Big developmental success. While he's always gotten groundballs in bunches, his improving K-numbers throughout his minor league career attest to his improved secondary stuff, particularly his slider.

2004

Jeremy Sowers - I think it is hard to argue Sowers as a developmental failure.  He has consistently dominated the minors.  The translation to the big league level is not something I feel justified in blaming the minor league staff entirely for.  An argument could be made that more of an effort should have been extended to improve his fastball velocity, but that is tough without incurring all sorts of other mechanical issues.

Justin Hoyman - never got started

Scott Lewis - I think a success story from a developmental perspective.  Always did well, but was always described as likely having trouble at the next level.  He kept doing well at the next level, up until his injury derailment in the majors.

Chuck Lofgren - Hard to know exactly what has happened or who is to blame for Lofgren, but losing the ability to throw strikes is something I'm happy to assign partial blame to the staff.

Mike Butia - Bad pick

Chris Gimenez - The Tribe turned this 19th round pick into a guy who can play multiple positions including catcher.  He's not great, but that's not a bad job for a guy not many people probably thought much of.

Carlton Smith - Another guy who the Indians are trying to turn into something useful.  They've managed to take his naturally sinking stuff and turn him into an extreme groundballer out of the pen in Akron this year.  I say small victory.

Wyatt Toregas - selected in the 24th round, Wyatt's performance has been up and down, but at various points they've managed to get his plate discipline and/or power up to levels that made his appearance on the big league team this year not surprising.  Success.

Tony Sipp - he was a late round flyer who I think we're all glad signed.  A success obviously, but it is a little troubling that Sipp's control never showed any improvement.

2005

Trevor Crowe - After looking like he was nothing in 2007 in Akron, he did rebound more towards a reasonably projection given his college performance.  Not worth a first round pick, but not the developmental staff's fault.

John Drennen - Haven't been able to put together a solid approach at the plate for Drennen.  It's either mediocre power with huge K-rates, or zero power with mediocre plate discipline.

Stephen Head - they really should have worked on his mustache more, or tried to put together a coherent set of skills

Nick Weglarz - projectable big guy from Ontario with limited baseball experience turned into a top prospect...Yes!

Jensen Lewis - Again, from the minor league side of things, this looks like a success

Jordan Brown - Following his 2007 season in Akron, it looked like all he needed to do was add a little power and he'd be a good guy at the plate.  Instead he fell apart, losing power, discipline and contact skills.  He has rebounded a lot this year, but hasn't recovered his discipline at the plate and given his defensive liabilities, isn't viewed as part of the future.  In terms of development, I think Brown is probably a draw.

Kevin Dixon, Joe Ness, James Deters - These three consecutive picks from 2005 all reached Akron and promptly had their careers end, I think we can assign a little failure.

Ryan Edell - Edell, the next pick in that draft, actually made it past Akron this year.  Edell is not anything special, but he has followed an advance and struggle, then come back and improve trajectory to the point where he is a depth rotation option for next season.  I say success from the development perspective.

Roman Pena - Toolsy, but failed to learn how to not strike out

Neil Wagner - Once viewed as a relief prospect sleeper, Wagner's control has gotten worse as he has moved through the system

2006

David Huff - similar story to Jeremy Sowers.  He really looked like he was ready in 2008, but in 2009 his stuff has been lacking. I have a hard time saying this is a failure of the minor league development staff, though.

Steven Wright - he's not a guy we talk much about, but he has slowly and steadily progressed through the system and will likely be a major part of the Columbus bullpen next year.  Not a glowing victory, but not a developmental failure.

Josh Rodriguez - Rodriguez has dealt with some injuries, but this seems like a failure.  He was highly thought of and got off to a nice pro start in 2007.

Wes Hodges - Again injuries have played a role, but Hodges' power and discipline have deteriorated at each level to the point where now he is a deserved after thought.

Matt McBride - Here I largely question the developmental choices the organization has made.  McBride was at catcher, but got moved to corner outfield.  He had enough of a projectable bat to be a major league catcher, but it would have and will take a minor miracle to make him a serviceable outfielder.  I say development fail.

Adam Davis - He got worse each of his final two seasons at Florida, so I don't blame Cleveland for him not being any good, just for drafting him.

Ryan Morris - A big high-school lefty who the Indians have been unable to teach how to throw strikes

Jared Goedert - Apart from a now legendary 46 game stretch in Lake County, he is 9th round organizational fodder

Paolo Espino - Espino has been moved back and forth from rotation to bullpen, but his improved control this season was a positive step forward for him.  I say one for the plus column. 

Josh Tomlin - a 19th round pick, Tomlin has been steady in his performance across levels, last season as a stalwart in Akron's pitching staff, to the point of being an interesting guy.  Development win.

Vinnie Pestano - Enough marginal improvement in his BB-rate to call this a minor victory.

Chris Nash - Big and raw high school firstbaseman, the Indians have never been able to translate his strength into power or any kind of plate performance.  Fail.

Ryan Miller - late round flier who showed signs of life for Lake County in 2008, totally blew up in 2009.

Others

Jon Meloan - not drafted, but clearly a developmental failure.  Were never able to right his once promising ship.

Asdrubal Cabrera - huge victory.  Cabrera was a hugely underrated guy when we acquired him, but he has been able to translate that potential into actual performance.

Fausto Carmona - huge victory....turned huge failure? But this also involves the major league staff.

Frank Herrmann - Transition to bullpen was successful this season and might prove to be a very smart developmental move. That said, he didn't actually improve any of his numbers in the process.

Hector Rondon - Definitely looks like a victory in progress, has been getting better as he has advanced (at least until the final month of this season).

Rafael Perez - Another victory in terms of his minor league performance.  Was a borderline starter turned into a momentarily great reliever.

Jeanmar Gomez - Another seeming victory in progress.  His stuff has become more effective as he has moved through the system.

Josh Judy - 34th round 2007 pick, his numbers have also shown steady progress.  Could warrant a bullpen look in 2010.

Carlos Rivero - was looking good, but had a definite set back this season in his AA debut

Summary

There are lots of guys I have no doubt missed, and I have intentionally left most of the guys acquired from 2007-present out, because for most of them development is still a work in progress.  Generally, I think the Indians developmental system has been adequate, if not extraordinary.  We have had pitching successes (Aaron Laffey) and failures (Jon Meloan), hitting successes (Asdrubal Cabrera) and failures (Brad Snyder), college successes (Ryan Garko) and college failures (Wes Hodges), high school successes (Nick Weglarz) and high school failures (Chuck Lofgren).  Again, a real study would try to assess this quantitatively and comaratively, but I don't have time for that.

I will say the Indians success with pitchers have seemingly been with developing downward movement on their fastball and/or the development of a slider in particular as an effective secondary pitch.  There aren't a ton of changeup success stories in the system, or guys who have developed great power fastballs.

At the plate, it is my sense that certain players who have struggled have gone back and forth between trying to achieve their power potential, while also maintaining a reasonable plate approach.  Beau Mills seems to be a case of this in progress, where last season he was showing some signs of actually improving in both areas (following a half-season debut with good power and bad discipline), only to come crashing down in many ways this season.  I always find it disappointing when guys who showed plus defensive skills, like Brad Snyder, could not ever quite work it out at the plate enough to get a shot at the major league level.  Fire everyone! - mabe.  But I'd probably rather see an easing of the constraints on the system.  Not an abandonment of the over-arching organizational philosophy on player development, but an openness to the reality that Cleveland is not the greatest organization on the planet and does not have all of the answers.

Just about any individual performance success story or failure can be viewed either as a result of the player's contribution or that of the coaches - so it is impossible to really get at the latter.  Only systematic problems give reasonable evidence of organizational failings in this regard.  By and large I don't think the Indians system has those.  I question sometimes whether the one size fits all approach to development and advancement works for everyone, but some of the player development decisions made this year (Abner Abreu, Lonnie Chisenhall, Zach Putnam) suggest a more flexible approach on behalf of the front office.  The bottom line is that I think the Indians do a good job of getting players to perform to the level that is expected of them.   There are not that many examples of guys turning into something more than was ever thought possible, but I would guess these are rare in every organization.  There are also not a lot of total failures which don't have some major injury component to them.  Fire everyone! - maybe.  But I'd probably rather just see more humility in the current organizational philosophy towards development.  The Indians are not the greatest organization on the planet and do not know the answers to every (or these days any) question.  Allowing a little flexibility and opening the channels of communication regarding development up to a few more smart voices might not be a bad idea.

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tx for reminding me… i think i saw maebe in a commercial the other day. time to investigate

Captain of the SS [DO NOT TRADE] CHOO

by westbrook on Sep 24, 2009 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very minor point but Wagner had a good enough end to the season to make him slightly interesting. The K rate has always been solid but his bb/9 followed an encouraging trend June-July-August-September of 7.11-3.95-3.18-1.13

by stuart dean on Sep 24, 2009 5:55 PM EDT reply actions  

there doesn’t seem to be a consistent level/position correlation, does there?…. where hitters seem to stall at AA, starting pichters as they leave AAA and head into the majors comes to mind… just thinking “outloud.”

by Brick. on Sep 24, 2009 6:00 PM EDT reply actions  

None that is obviously visible. People hit roadblocks at every level. I tend to see a lot of breakthroughs in Akron, but that’s no doubt biased by my own feelings that at Akron you are really only one step from being major league ready and being in Cleveland, so I take good performances more seriously there.

by APV on Sep 24, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

What about the Aeros’ consistently solid won-loss record? That hasn’t corresponded to wins in Buffalo or Columbus. The AAA teams have been good, as I remember, but nowhere near what Akron does. Shouldn’t a solid win percentage in AA translate eventually to win percentage in the International League, and ultimately the American League? The organization has performed well in A and AA, with some real powerhouse teams. But they don’t grow into powerhouse teams at AAA or Cleveland.

by odradek on Sep 25, 2009 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Triple-A clubs generally are half-packed with veteran journeymen, so they won’t bear all that much resemblance to future major league clubs. Double-A clubs have a lot less of that, but they do have 25-to-28-year-old guys who are not really prospects.

by Jay on Sep 25, 2009 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

What about Kinston? What happens to the talent that is good enough to win at A and AA? If the Aeros have a fair number of 25-year-olds—who are good enough to win the Eastern League but not much else—then is Akron actually bereft of talent?

 Is this true for other franchises? If so, does this mean the Indians simply have better 25-year-old players?

by odradek on Sep 25, 2009 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m generalizing, talking about all franchises. Our organization is unusually loaded with good talent at the moment. Akron had a TON of young prospects this season — Rondon, Gomez, Chisenhall, Santana, Rivero, Mills, etc.

by Jay on Sep 25, 2009 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know, but that’s my point. The Aeros consistently win—at least since 1999. They’ve won three titles in the past seven years (don’t know if that includes 2009). In 2002 they were 93-48, the highest winning percentage in the Eastern League in 50 years. They were league champs in 2003 and 2005. They had the league’s best regular-season record in 2006. The Aeros have been to the championship series for the past four years. A lot of players that came through Akron (Peralta, Carmona) helped make the Aeros into a powerhouse. But then…

There always seems to be an abundance of talent there, and we get excited because one day soon all these great young guys will be in Cleveland. Rondon, Gomez, Chisenhall, etc. But what happens? The players sometimes jump to Cleveland and stiffen. Buffalo and now Columbus are by no means International League powerhouses. It’s as if you have a raging river coming out of the mountains, but by the time it reaches the plains there’s nothing left. Where did all the water go?

by odradek on Sep 25, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

My point being: the Indians’ organization has done a good job recently of creating A and AA talent. But it doesn’t seem to correspond into AAA or MLB talent.

by odradek on Sep 25, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Akron has been very good, and I don’t know why that is the case. Every year I seem to think Buffalo/Columbus is going to be loaded and dominate AAA – and seemingly every year they fail me. I can’t explain the Aeros’ success, but I can say I’d probably be more interested in promoting coaches off that staff than off of Columbus.

by APV on Sep 25, 2009 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought perhaps the 2002 Aeros contributed to the Tribe’s success in 2005 and 2007. To a certain degree that’s true. That team had a 23-year-old Victor and a 20-year-old Jhonny. Also a 21-year-old Maicer Izturis. Ryan Church, etc. But there were quite a few 25-year-olds. Some of the Aeros did pretty well at a young age and then stalled when they moved up to Columbus or Cleveland, but that’s to be expected.

by odradek on Sep 25, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another reason Columbus hasn’t been tearing it up the last two years probably has something to do with most of their guys being up here.

by The Grimace on Sep 26, 2009 4:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

Except they weren’t doing too well during the first half of the seasons when they had LaPorta or Valbuena or Laffey or Huff.

by odradek on Sep 26, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

FIRE WEDGE!

"You just gotta roll with the ounches." - Clemson58YearOldMan

by emd2k3 on Sep 25, 2009 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

If there’s a point at which there’s a bottleneck in the Indians system I think it is at the minor league-major league cusp. But for very good reasons, this is how it should be. The majors simply aren’t AAAA, and that transition is the biggest that exists in baseball, for Cleveland and every other organization. That said, it would be nice if the Indians did a better job of bridging that gap. I don’t know whether the blame lies with the developmental apparatus of the organization or the major league coaching staff.

by APV on Sep 25, 2009 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know how to rank organizations according to their ability to development young talent, but I find it interesting that the one truly brilliant developmental story in the Indians’ organization—the decision to move Carlos Santana behind the plate—was taken by the Dodgers, not by us. (Of course, kudos to the Tribe FO for bringing him on board.)

There aren’t a ton of changeup success stories in the system, or guys who have developed great power fastballs.

Yeah, I’d like to see more changeup success stories (Hire Doug Jones!), but I don’t think any organization can systematically develop “great power fastballs.” That’s nature, not nurture.

by ken from alexandria on Sep 24, 2009 6:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Isn’t a good change a late-developing pitch? I don’t recall Mario Soto having his changeup until he had been with the Reds for a while. Trevor Hoffman didn’t start out with one, did he?

by odradek on Sep 25, 2009 12:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think it probably is a late-developing pitch because you have to develop a “feel” for it. One case in point that will probably be way before your time is Dave Giusti, who was a closer for the Pirates after failing as a starter with the Astros. He picked up a “palmball,” which was essentially a change-up, and he was awesome for several years in the early to mid 1970s.

by ken from alexandria on Sep 25, 2009 7:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

I remember Giusti from the Willis Stargell Pirates. I didn’t know he threw the changeup, but (from what I see on Baseball Reference) he had an epiphany late in his career.

by odradek on Sep 25, 2009 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

Lincecum and Buchholz have both shown very good changeups as young pitchers, as did Pedro. Hoffman started out as a shortstop, but he picked up his changeup while rehabbing from a should injury, I want to say in the early ‘90s. From the anecdotal evidence I have gleaned just from being around baseball, it seems like some pitchers have a knack for developing the “feel” for a changeup very early, while for others it comes late or never. I don’t know if coaching has anything to do with this.

Everybody should get ice cream every day.

by Joel D on Sep 25, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pitches that seem to be most effectively taught through coaching are the cutter and the splitter. The White Sox have made a killing acquiring pitchers and teaching them a cutter which has made each pitcher far better than expected. The splitter is extremely difficult to pick up, but mediocre to bad pitchers have all of a sudden become lights out just by adding an effective splitter.

by Roger Dorn on Sep 25, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pedro is a good one. He had it pretty young. Maybe it’s like the knuckleball.

by odradek on Sep 25, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

As did J. Santana.

In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).

by V-Mart Shopper on Sep 26, 2009 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay, great. So top 1% pitchers get change-ups early. Seems to me that what would differentiate a good farm system from a poor one is that they can create useful weapons for the other guys.

I mean, Tim Lincecum might’ve turned out great if his pitching coach was a reasonably well-informed jar of olives.

by fleerdon on Sep 27, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

So there it is. Five years or so worth of draft and development and I don’t see more than two or three potential – and that’s generous- All-Stars in the lot, let alone any possible HoF talent.

Where is there a Manny? or Albert? or Thome? or CC? or Victor? or Sandy? Is there any real talent in that bunch? Admittedly I don’t know our minor league guys as well as I should, but from here it looks like a collection of #3 to #5 starters, some middle inning relief guys and .750 to .850 OPS position players. Any potential super starts in this group?

Ya gotta have the groceries to make a gourmet meal. Looks like nothin’ but hot dogs and beans to me. Hard to blame the cook.

Resident LGT results-oriented boob.

by mauichuck on Sep 24, 2009 6:32 PM EDT reply actions  

You can’t ever expect Hall of Fame talent. Almost by definition it is a rarity to the point of being unpredictable.

by APV on Sep 24, 2009 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

But at some point your system should produce at least one outstanding player. We haven’t since what? Vic? Grady? CC?

Every winner needs 2 or 3 guys who play at that level. Rondon might be that guy, maybe Weglarz. But the likes of Huff and Kouzmanoff won’t get us to the Promised Land.

Resident LGT results-oriented boob.

by mauichuck on Sep 24, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Carmona was the last outstanding homegrown player, but obviously he didn’t stay that way.

by Jay on Sep 24, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay, we aren’t deeply satisfied with the player development. What is the action item?

by elsandito on Sep 24, 2009 7:52 PM EDT reply actions  

What is the action item?

I don’t think there is one

by APV on Sep 24, 2009 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes there is – pick different guys.

Seriously, it is hard to pick players in the baseball draft, but the Indians record hasn’t been grreat. Still, I’m more encouraged by the last year or two (Chisenhall, etc.). It’ll be interesting to see, in a couple of years, whether we’re still critical or whether we’re gloating over the rapid development of Rondon, Chisenhall, Weglarz and others. A few “hits” and perceptions could change.

by peter m on Sep 24, 2009 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Player acquisition and player development are to a large degree separate issues, the former of which I was not interested in here.

by APV on Sep 24, 2009 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

They’re linked. It’s hard to fault the development system if what they’re given is the equivalent of 12 LGTers every year.

One could, if one were so inclined, blame the developmental group with the failure to mold Brandon Phillips into a productive Cleveland Indian. But that would be futile and useless. Other than that, how are we to know if the player’s a stiff because of poor coaching or that he’s a stiff because he isn’t very good at baseball?

Resident LGT results-oriented boob.

by mauichuck on Sep 24, 2009 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, that was my point. Silk purse out of a sow’s ear and all that. I think the article makes a persuasive case that the minor league system has actually developed more than a few players quite successfully. But, I look through that list of draftees in vain for a player who we really thought, when drafted, was going to be a star and who we turned into a bust. Adam Miller and Michael Aubrey are the big disappointments, but their problems are basically about injuries Maybe Jeremy Guthrie?

by peter m on Sep 25, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think the development staff also had a failure to resuscitate Barfield. Then again, they have resuscitated Marte pretty impressively.

by Jay on Sep 25, 2009 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Then again, they have resuscitated Marte pretty impressively.

I wouldn’t say this as strongly. It has hard to argue with his results this season in Columbus, but his fundamentals weren’t what they once were. The Indians have never been able to turn him back into what he was at Richmond as a 21-year old getting his first taste of AAA (13.9 BB%, 18.0 K%, .231 ISOP, 878 OPS).

by APV on Sep 25, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t necessarily think this is true. The system may be built toward churning out a certain type of player (more specifically I’m thinking about pitchers in/from our system) and these players are drafted accordingly. If the developmental system does a good job of developing pitch to contact and high control skills than the drafting part of the system will look to pick pitchers that would best fit this criteria.

by hans on Sep 24, 2009 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

but the coaches and instructors throughout the system don’t draft players

by APV on Sep 24, 2009 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

True. Its more of an indictment of the full system including the drafting and development, I see the two related on a macro level.

by hans on Sep 25, 2009 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Feels to me like most of the success comes in the later rounds, with unexpected players. In other words, most of our success comes from the few diamonds in the rough, where we find some quality amidst quantity.

On the other hand, our failures come from the higher levels, where quality is to be expected and the already high ceiling should be met or raised.

In other words, fail.

by Matt in LA on Sep 25, 2009 2:24 PM EDT reply actions  

I don’t think I agree. I also think the last two drafts are showing considerable promise with our 1-10 round picks.

From 2008…
Chisenhall (1) looks very good
Trey Haley (2) has struggled mightily, but showed signs of progress at the end of the season and given his age (19.3) and level (just finished a full season in LC) he has some time
Cord Phelps (3) looks ok, and already in Kinston
David Roberts (4) again, ok and already in Kinston
Zach Putnam (5) intriguing and in Akron
Jeremie Tice (6), not exciting
Tim Fedroff (7), caught fire in the 2nd half and in Kinston
Eric Berger (8), very good season and now in Akron
Clayton Cook (9), just turned 19 and doing well
Donnie Webb (10), ok numbers, especially speed numbers, but just in LC

That’s a pretty good looking group 1.5 years after the draft. I figure 6 of those will be starting the season in Akron next year.

From this year’s draft, it is obviously very early. But Kipnis, Bellows, Henry, Burns, Guilmet and Brach all had nice debuts out of the top 10 rounds.

by APV on Sep 25, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

My comment was based more on your analysis, not the more recent drafts. None of the top picks were glaring successes. Most of the wins were flyers. You just don’t hear about flyers that don’t work out.

Brad Snyder – bust
Javi Herrera – bust
Ryan Garko – success
Kevin Kouzmanoff – success-ish
Aaron Laffey – find

Jeremy Sowers – success-ish
Justin Hoyman – bust
Scott Lewis – success
Chuck Lofgren – bust
Mike Butia – Bad pick
Chris Gimenez – find
Carlton Smith – possible find
Wyatt Toregas – find
Tony Sipp – find

Trevor Crowe – bust-ish
John Drennen – bust
Stephen Head – bust
Nick Weglarz – success
Jensen Lewis – success
Jordan Brown – bust-ish
Kevin Dixon, Joe Ness, James Deters – busts
Ryan Edell – bust-ish
Roman Pena – bust
Neil Wagner – find-ish

David Huff – success
Steven Wright – success-ish
Matt McBride – bust
Adam Davis – bust
Ryan Morris – bust
Jared Goedert – bust
Paolo Espino – success
Josh Tomlin – find
Vinnie Pestano – find
Chris Nash – almost find turned bust
Ryan Miller – almost find turned bust

by Matt in LA on Sep 25, 2009 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

This sort of list needs to be put in meaningful contest — factors we’ve discussed to death, exhumed, dressed up like pirates, then buried again — and, as Adam disclaims, he doesn’t have the time to do that. Really, my sense is that, unless you’re getting paid for your efforts, nobody does. I will go only this far: Your list, taken alone, doesn’t suggest to me that the Indians are better or worse at this than is any other team.

by fleerdon on Sep 27, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hector Rondon

Couldn’t agree more about Rondon, APV. We just featured him on our blog, MLB Fantasy Prospects. Our prospect guru has him ahead of some talented guys, including Brian Matusz. Check out our post if you get a chance. Would love to hear your feedback.

http://www.mlbfantasyprospects.com/2009/09/19-mlb-fantasy-prospect-hector-rondon-sp-cleveland-indians—-scouting-report.html

by Steve @ MLB Fantasy Prospects on Sep 25, 2009 10:00 PM EDT reply actions  

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