Marte Running Out of Time to Prove Himself
Methinks that Castro is trotting out a little irony here in his intro to tonight's game up on MLB. With his usage patterns, Marte can only be running out of time to prove himself at Dominos...
4 months ago
stuart dean
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http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2009_09_24_detmlb_clemlb_1&mode=preview
Captain of the SS [DO NOT TRADE] CHOO
by westbrook on Sep 24, 2009 6:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Captain of the SS [DO NOT TRADE] CHOO
by westbrook on Sep 24, 2009 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fixed link.
It’s pretty clear the Indians are done evaluating Marte, one way or the other. Still, can’t hurt to get on base four times in a game.
I watched the throwing error a few times, and it didn’t look at all bad to me. I might even call it a tough error. Marson could very well have made that play, he just didn’t catch the ball.
by Jay on Sep 24, 2009 6:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It’s pretty clearthe Indians areWedge is done evaluating Marte, one way or the other.
Fixed.
I just wanted to believe.
by mjmarble on Sep 24, 2009 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the same thing. I thought Hamilton was way too harsh on Marte for that throw.
by lenred on Sep 24, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The TV guys were carrying on about how lazy he was on the play. They were dead wrong. He actually moved pretty well, but set up wrong and got his foot caught. I actually think he reacted as if he was at third, got his feet set up to throw at that angle, then realized his error and tripped.
by peter m on Sep 24, 2009 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we’re not even talking about the same play. The play I saw, he got to the ball instantly, realized there was a potential play at the plate, went for it, and the ball was maybe two feet off-line, not that far from perfect and definitely makeable.
by Jay on Sep 24, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we are talking about the same play – the one that led to the 3rd Tiger run. I agree that he got the ball quickly and made a throw. It bounced, but could have been fielded (would have been a good play by Marson). I thought, on looking at the replays, that his footwork was a mess (it looked to me as if he even caught the tip of his foot in the ground). The TV guys called him out for being lazy and NOT moving his feet — I think he did move his feet, but moved them improperly, which contributed to the bad throw.
Either way it probably had to be called an error on someone, and Marte’s throw wasn’t good. In last night’s game (on Thursday), the Tiger first baseman made the same play and threw Hafner out at the plate easily.
by peter m on Sep 25, 2009 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t see calling out a guy for his footwork on a play where if he doesn’t get rid of the ball immediately, he blows the play. People seem to be forgetting that it was a tag-play at the plate, and that takes an extra second to execute for the catcher.
by Jay on Sep 25, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree. I wasn’t calling him out — the announcers were. It did seem to me, though, that his throw was affected by his footwork.
by peter m on Sep 25, 2009 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps, but what you haven’t noted is whether it was even possible to react quickly to the ball — catching and throwing — to make that play while taking a split-second to put your feet in the best position.
by Jay on Sep 25, 2009 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He threw it straight into the ground. It was an error.
by TribeJay on Sep 25, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And to add on, nobody is mentioning the two-hopper he played into a single to lead off the 4th. That let Cabrera come up with two out, and he hit a pitch nine miles.
Hey, I like Marte’s defense at third. But at first he has a ways to go. And understandably so.
by TribeJay on Sep 25, 2009 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What?
Straight into the ground, 85 feet away?
by Jay on Sep 25, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For a major league infielder…yes. Ninety feet is not a long throw. He can do that in his sleep. He was out by 10 feet with a good throw.
It was a simple transfer and throw. I actually thought he might’ve lost the handle intially, because his body started home before his arm did. But the replay didn’t really show that. Maybe it still did and it wasn’t obvious enough to see on the replay.
I don’t think this example was really a lazy play. But I think Hammy/Manning were guilty of convicting him of that because they’ve seen it from him in the past. To me, it was a simple error. Nothing more, nothing less.
by TribeJay on Sep 25, 2009 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I honestly watched it five times, trying to figure out what all the criticism was about. The runner was not going to be out by ten feet, not even five feet. He had to catch and release immediately, and he did. The throw was not perfect, but it was far from awful.
by Jay on Sep 25, 2009 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Before I dismissed your opinion completely, I owed it to you to watch this again. I froze it just after the ball glanced off Marson’s glove…and Miguel Cabrera had not even started to slide. Any throw in the dirt was a bad throw, and if it had gotten to Marson on the fly, he was an easy out.
Jay, if you were an official scorer, hitters would love you…and pitchers would despise you. ;)
by TribeJay on Sep 25, 2009 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I probably score it as an error anyway, if only because nobody forced him to take the tough out.
by Jay on Sep 25, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I find myself looking at the title to this post and thinking of ways to rearrange the words into more amusing sentiments.
Marte, running himself, out to prove of time
to prove, Time himself, running out of Marte
…
by APV on Sep 24, 2009 6:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Time Running out of Marte to Prove Himself
by danvail on Sep 24, 2009 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Out Running Himself To Prove Of – Marte Time
by Jay on Sep 24, 2009 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Marte of Time Running Out to Prove Himself
Captain of the SS [DO NOT TRADE] CHOO
by westbrook on Sep 24, 2009 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of Marte, Prove Running to Himself? Time Out!
by fleerdon on Sep 27, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
(Everyone from) Marte to Time Himself Prove Out of Running
Prove: “Marte Out of Running, Time to Himself”
Marte to Himself: “Prove Time Out of Running”
by Logodaedalus on Sep 30, 2009 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that everybody in the Indians – and every other – organization’s seen enough. Who do you think’ll pick him up this winter? KC?
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
by mauichuck on Sep 25, 2009 2:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I was thinking about this the other day…not many options in the AL at least. I was thinking Baltimore.
by TribeJay on Sep 25, 2009 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I didn’t spend time looking at the NL. Only the AL. But that would probably be a good fit.
And to be clear, I read Chuck’s comment too quickly. I think the Indians are done evaluating him (like Jay has said), but not the league. He’s too young. And he had too good a year in AAA.
by TribeJay on Sep 25, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said the same thing last year, but I think it’d be dumb for some of those bad NL teams to not give him a shot for a full year. He might be okay in the NL.
by Roger Dorn on Sep 25, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about Oakland (Chavez is always hurt, and Adam Kennedy is Adam Kennedy)? That would be funny — Billy Beane picks Andy up for a bag of peanuts and Andy becomes a solid major league third baseman who hits 20 to 25 home runs. It could happen. And, we’d all be saying how astute Billy Beane is once again!
by peter m on Sep 25, 2009 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why can’t the Tribe keep him?
by JulioBernazard on Sep 25, 2009 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it sounded like from the hoynes article that they intend on keeping him on the roster through the winter and the start of spring training. he’s playing winter ball, supposed to show up in shape… at worst, i’m fine with him as a right-handed 1b/3b back-up. they may shop jhonny which i think is the only non-injury way he starts next year as a starter. heck, they may shop marte this winter, but it doesn’t sound to me like the plan is to waive him this winter.
by Brick. on Sep 25, 2009 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good.
I’m getting ready to Fhire Jhonny, actually.
by JulioBernazard on Sep 25, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bob Hunter comments on Marte’s chances in his ‘Rumblings’ post here (2nd item).
He seems to think Wedge is behind the playing time issues of late:
It appears that Wedge has seen enough of Marte. From Aug. 20 to Sept. 13, Marte started every game at first base. But with Marte slumping, Wedge turned the job over to Matt LaPorta, at least until he suffered a hip injury this week.
"You just gotta roll with the ounches." - Clemson58YearOldMan
by emd2k3 on Sep 25, 2009 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think any comment is noteworthy that is sourced strictly from the B-Ref game logs.
by Jay on Sep 25, 2009 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess the point was “Is it Wedge done evaulating, or the club as a whole?”
"You just gotta roll with the ounches." - Clemson58YearOldMan
by emd2k3 on Sep 25, 2009 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and I love pinch hitting Jamey Carroll for him with the bases loaded down 3-0 recently.
"You just gotta roll with the ounches." - Clemson58YearOldMan
by emd2k3 on Sep 25, 2009 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He got a two-out RBI walk out of it, though.
by odradek on Sep 25, 2009 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. But, Marte would have hit a shot right at some one!
by peter m on Sep 25, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
True, but that’s not the point when you’re 61-91 is it? If I were Marte getting called back to the dugout (once again) for Carroll’s bat, I might have had some choice words for Wedge.
"You just gotta roll with the ounches." - Clemson58YearOldMan
by emd2k3 on Sep 25, 2009 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no point in pinch-hitting a guy entering free agency when you are 61-91.
by Roger Dorn on Sep 25, 2009 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would’ve been interesting to see if he had done that if they were playing a team like the Orioles. Wedge was pretty clearly pulling out all the stops to win against the Tigers, a team that needed the win. The way Marte had been going, it was probably the right move to maximize the chances of winning that particular game. And Marte had just popped up two hanging sliders (with accompanying “hit me” flashing signs) in his previous at-bats after coming in for LaPorta.
by TribeJay on Sep 25, 2009 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Forgot to add that it still would’ve been my preference to see Marte hit there.
by TribeJay on Sep 25, 2009 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you here. And I think he should have let him hit. What the hell.
by odradek on Sep 26, 2009 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No manager should lightly replace a righty with a righty or a lefty with a lefty when pinch-hitting. Carroll is a different hitter than Marte but — obviously — to everyone but Wedge — not an immensely better hitter, overall. It was not a situation where there was minimal utility to an extra-base hit, either, which would be another reasonable rationale.
This is just one of many examples where Wedge favors the approach that pleases his eye at the expense of a well calibrated expectation of results.
by Jay on Sep 26, 2009 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In a simulation game, yes. But Marte had not had swung the bat well in awhile, and he was facing a guy that was going to give him the slider on the outer half over and over…not Marte’s strength (like I said, he had just popped up two hangers from Jackson, and he was going to get the same pitch from Lyon). It’s marginal, and I would’ve liked to seen Marte hit anyway, but the decision isn’t made in a vacuum. I can at least understand it.
Now if he was facing a guy with a good sinker who ran it in on righties, then it would’ve been a definitively poor move. As it is, it was just questionable move.
by TribeJay on Sep 26, 2009 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lots of speculation and assumption behind that.
Here’s some fact: Marte basically had not swung the bat at all — well or poorly — in a week.
by Jay on Sep 26, 2009 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speculation and assumptions that you need to at least account for, not dismiss entirely.
Coming into that potential at-bat, he was 5 for his last 46. And much of that was in consecutive games, though it had obviously been very sparse recently.
by TribeJay on Sep 26, 2009 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t dismissing it, I was just moving on. I don’t care to dispute it, just to point out that speculation isn’t fact.
What I especially can’t dispute is that Marte had a cold bat (of one kind or another, or both) at that moment. I don’t like it, and I don’t hold him accountable for it, but it is obviously true. This just further fits the classic Wedge pattern of putting Marte in a situation where he can’t succeed. Once you get to that moment, you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
Having said that, regardless of the type of season we’re having, but especially because of the type of season we’re having, yanking him for Carroll is bush league regardless.
by Jay on Sep 26, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
And there you have it. Wedge maybe a great AA or even AAA manager – but he doesn’t belong in the Major Leagues.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
by mauichuck on Sep 26, 2009 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Completely agreed. I cannot wait until next year with someone else on the awkwardly named ATM Ask The Manager show.
by fwembt on Sep 27, 2009 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wedge favors the approach that pleases his eye at the expense of a well calibrated expectation of results.
This sums up Wedge’s management style. He truly believes in the force of his will, and can’t figure out why it doesn’t turn out the way it’s supposed to.
by odradek on Sep 26, 2009 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wedge was pretty clearly pulling out all the stops to win against the Tigers
That went well.
Captain of the SS [DO NOT TRADE] CHOO
by westbrook on Sep 26, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Other headlines considered:
U. S. adoption of metric system failing to gain momentum
Liz Taylor’s youth beginning to slip from her grasping paws
The future in which Dippin’ Dots replaces ice cream postponed from tomorrow to day after
by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on Sep 25, 2009 5:39 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
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