Game Thread: September 6, 2009
by Ryan on Sep 6, 2009 12:55 PM EDT
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Lineups:
Minnesota: RF Span, SS Cabrera, C Mauer, DH Morneau, LF Kubel, 1B Cuddyer, 3B Harris, CF Gomez, 2B Punto, P Blackburn
Cleveland: CF Brantley, SS Cabrera, RF Choo, 3B Peralta, DH Hafner, LF LaPorta, 2B Valbuena, 1B Marte, Gimenez, P Huff
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INDIANS (59-76): CF Michael Brantley, SS Asdrubal Cabrera, RF Shin-Soo Choo, 3B Jhonny Peralta, DH Travis Hafner, LF Matt LaPorta, 2B Luis Valbuena, 1B Andy Marte, C Chris Gimenez. LHP David Huff (8-7, 6.57).
When I used to play baseball it was always more defeating being beaten by a guy who threw hard. You’d tip your hat and say “wow, he gassed me today, and then when I sat on gas, he changed speeds,” or something to that effect. On the other hand, no matter how badly a slow guy beat you, you always felt like you were right on the cusp of making something happen. You could go 0-4 against the slow guy but know that you’re a mistake away from hitting him hard.
I think that’s how other teams must feel facing the triumverate that is Huff, Sowers, and Laffey. It’s not a matter of if you’ll hit them, it’s a matter of when. At least that’s how I would feel.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
Although pitchf/x just had a Huff fastball at 92. I’ll eat my words on this one.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
i always hated losing to the slow guys more. because i know we should have beat them. the harder throwers with better stuff you could at least tell were just tougher and better pitchers.
That’s exactly it. Although I never felt down when someone soft-tossed a shutout or something. I didn’t feel overmatched and I knew that given time it would even out in the hitter’s favor. Or at least that’s what I thought.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I was that soft-tosser when I played, and I loved sending guys back to the dugout unable to believe they hadn’t gone 4-4 with 3 bombs off of me.
Everybody should get ice cream every day.
I was a catcher and we had a few guys like that. There was a huge degree of satisfaction when you could see the frustration on the hitter’s faces.
Slow guys were also fun to catch. They all thought they threw twenty different pitches from different arm slots and they’d bounce every other pitch in. It was a huge ego boost for a catcher because it looked like I was putting on a blocking clinic.
Not so much of an ego boost if they were slow to the plate. My senior year I led the league in CS but teams attempted an absurd amount of stolen bases due to slow delivery and slow velocity.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
it was always hard for people to be patient against a slower pitcher. they seemed to hit the first pitch that even came through the zone.
waiting out a slower pitcher is the way to do it because those mistakes are going to be even more hittable.
I was a bigger guy who had (in his own mind) Herculean power so I would swing out of my shoes in this situation. Eventually I learned to sit back and look oppo the whole way. Slower guys usually weren’t comfortable coming inside with the fastball so they’d back door you a whole lot with sliders and change ups. Once I figured that out I was fine. Unfortunately, that was the summer before my senior year, so I only got one real season to use my new-found knowledge.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I love hearing ‘The Final Countdown’
playing in the background….anywhere
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
My dream is to be seated in the players’ wives section as Grady’s loving partner.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I saw those. Photoshops. All of them.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Grady gave me a wink and a wave the last game I went to. I’m in.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
That was just a wee bit loud.
Oh sure. But this is drunk logic. Also, time-traveling potatoes.--AngG
All pizza joints should give you peppers and garlic sauce like Papa John’s does.
Everybody should get ice cream every day.
Yaysh.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s nothing compared to the greaseball that is Pizza Hut or EofC
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Pizza Hut is better than PJ’s, in my opinion. I don’t know what EofC is.
It’s all bad, though. Best pizzas ever came from Wiseguy’s in Columbia, MO and Mama Santa’s in Cleveland’s Little Italy.
CFO of Klezmer
East of Chicago… those two nearly killed my love for Pizza.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Avoid at all costs. Or bring napkins capable of saturating a gallon of grease off the top. It’s foul.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Once you’ve had Mama Santa’s, all other pizza pales in comparison.
Actually, Schlotzky’s Deli has pretty good pizza for being fast foody.
CFO of Klezmer
Usually I rate pizzerias based not on pizza, but how good their chicken parm sandwiches are. But you’re talking this Mama Santa’s up. I’m applying to Case next fall, so possible little Italy trips might be in order.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
All the Scholtsky’s in Columbus have closed. It was a very sad day for me when that happened.
I want it. I've been grinding it out for awhile.
Was there a Mazzio’s in Columbia? I’ve been to Mazzio’s in Joplin and Rogers, AR.
Not bad..
by kennesawmountainwahoo on Sep 6, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep. Never tried the pizza bar. Thought their pizza was pretty good, but not north coast good.
by kennesawmountainwahoo on Sep 6, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
North coast? Wait, what country are you in?
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
North coast always referred to Lake Erie when I lived up there. It’s been awhile, so maybe that moniker isn’t used any more.
by kennesawmountainwahoo on Sep 6, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
It could still be in use. Just not part of my lexicon.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Good pizza does not exist in the south. Donato’s was the best we had around ATL until they pulled out. Here, Papa John’s is the cream of the crap.
by kennesawmountainwahoo on Sep 6, 2009 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
NICE
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m hoping this was a reference to those “nice guys” videos
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I have people from high school sending me friend requests on Facebook. I recognize their names but not who they are. :|
CFO of Klezmer
I’m at the age where people are starting to get married. So I’m beginning to get requests from “unknown” peoples, only to find out that it’s so and so with a new last name. Kind of makes me want to finish up this grad school stuff.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I rejoined facebook a couple of days ago. I couldn’t remember why I hated it the first time. Now I do.
My HS class just had their 20th reunion. I forgot all about it, but probably wouldn’t have gone.
Oh sure. But this is drunk logic. Also, time-traveling potatoes.--AngG
I won’t go to any of my high school reunions. I was fairly introverted and kept to myself then, anyway, hence the not remembering people but recognizing their names.
CFO of Klezmer
I had a ton of friends and a pretty small class, but the idea of going and having to tell people what’s up with me lately is depressing as hell.
Oh sure. But this is drunk logic. Also, time-traveling potatoes.--AngG
I had a medium-sized class and a small group of friends. I think more people know of me than I know of them, though, because I was kind of a crazy looking goth punk in HS.
CFO of Klezmer
What’s a medium-sized class to you? Mine was 162 graduates. I guess I’m just making the assumption that it was really small because I remember most schools being bigger than mine at the time.
Oh sure. But this is drunk logic. Also, time-traveling potatoes.--AngG
Graduated with about the same, but started freshman year with 500+… my HS now has an attrition rate approaching 50%
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Not a tough area per se. It’s really a town divided. There’s a very upper middle class contingent and then a lower class (like below poverty line). They all got crammed into the same building after the other HS closed and it’s just a shit show now. 2000+ people. Although they’re building a new school, so hope is on the horizon?
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
All that means is that yours was really small.
Oh sure. But this is drunk logic. Also, time-traveling potatoes.--AngG
Do not accept friend request. Non-sibling family members on facebook are a bad idea. Unless you lead a choir-boy lifestyle. In that case you’re money.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m friends with my mom. I don’t put anything bad on there though. I have heard too many horror stories about schools not hiring teachers because of their Facebooks.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
I read something the other day that almost 49% of employers screen candidates based on fb and myspace (for the people who still use it)
So once college is over, either get to untagging, or just delete the whole thing.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I just don’t ever put myself in situations that could adversely affect me in such a manner.
CFO of Klezmer
Like being filmed chugging Dragon’s Milk right before running for school board. :D
Oh sure. But this is drunk logic. Also, time-traveling potatoes.--AngG
In the real world that’s easy, but for a college student that becomes difficult if you have any kind of social life on the weekends.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah, even when I was in college. I’m a relatively sober individual despite appearances.
CFO of Klezmer
I’m like that now, but a few artifacts of my undergraduate experience are still tagged. Some day I’ll have to take care of that.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
They’re not particularly incriminating or anything. Just a lot of very drunk nights that I wouldn’t want affecting my status with a potential employer.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Sometimes just being in a picture with red solo cups is enough for elementary schools, my future employers.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
I was trying to find the article, but some major teacher’s union is organizing a petition that states that those signing it will not engage in compromising behavior on the weekends and non-school settings. I think red solo cups might fall into that category.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I use red Solo cups upstairs when I take medications.
Oh dear.
Oh sure. But this is drunk logic. Also, time-traveling potatoes.--AngG
When you say “The Trial” I hope you’re not referring to OJ but the Kafka novel… which might be my all time favorite piece of literature
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I am referring to the Kafka work. I had no idea people referred to the OJ trial as “The Trial”.
CFO of Klezmer
Someone must have been telling lies about
Joseph K.Julie, for without having done anything wrong he was arrested one fine morning.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
unless you count solo cups as something
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s easier to just do it now so you don’t miss anything. If someone tags a questionable picture of me I just untag it as soon as it happens. I’m also friends with my pastor so I have to be careful.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
You make it sound like the pastor has a habit of tagging questionable pictures of you.
Oh sure. But this is drunk logic. Also, time-traveling potatoes.--AngG
Got an actual laugh out of that one.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
ZING
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Valbuena just slid slowly, sadly, into second.
Oh sure. But this is drunk logic. Also, time-traveling potatoes.--AngG
Poetry.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Question for you guys… With Chris Perez’s performance…assuming Wood’s option doesn’t vest, but say he goes 6 for 6 or 6 for 7 in save situations the rest of the way. Is there a small chance we deal him in the offseason?
I’m not saying we wouldn’t possibly need to take on salary back in some form to make it work, but if we seemingly still have to move Shoppach and/or Peralta to help with payroll and allow us to potentially add a piece, I wonder if the Wood route still could work.
without thinking much about what the closer market will be like this winter (in terms of buyers), I think it is unlikely we’d be able to move Wood without eating part of his contract. Not, I think, because teams don’t think Wood is capable of being an elite closer, but more because the entire market seems to have eased a bit from when we signed Wood.
by APV on Sep 6, 2009 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
of course it is also possible that 2011 rolls around and Wood is playing a major, albeit possibly overpaid, role in the bullpen
by APV on Sep 6, 2009 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed….having a veteran closer that is doing his job can’t be a bad thing if we are to compete.
by MooneysRebellion on Sep 6, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
the entire bullpen other than wood makes something like 4 million right now? in the indians market, paying anybody 10 million+ a year is questionable.. paying a below average closer over tha amount 3 consecutive years is terrible when the team is going to “not be much of a contender” according to the FO.
there is an argument that C Perez is ready to close now.. and even if he isnt, he almost surely will be next year. by 2011 he should be locked into that role. why wait until 2012?
I would argue that wood is not below average.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes. Wood has struggled at times with his control (and therefore HRs) this year, but his stuff is still top notch.
by APV on Sep 6, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
he doesnt fit with the club long term, i think seeing what we have with perez or even some other internal option would be a better path.
you’re right. we have to sweat this out all next year and the end of this year before we will really know
I think this year will be more of an issue, and looks pretty safe at the moment. As I said, I imagine they will find ways to keep his playing time down early next season so that it doesn’t become an issue.
by APV on Sep 6, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions
We can see what we have with Perez in the 8th inning.
It makes little difference if he’s a long-term fit; it’s a short-term contract. If things go well in 2010, we may well decide he’s worth the money for 2011 on a one-year deal.
by Jay on Sep 6, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions
ok, we can give him average if you want.. but for this organization to pay someone that much you have to be either
A) elite or
B) have no other alternative options in the organization who are big league ready
wood is not elite. and there are other options
But we need more than one good reliever. Wood and Perez don’t create a redundancy.
by Jay on Sep 6, 2009 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
With the emergence of Chris Perez and the abundance of club controlled arms I’m hoping the $11 million that would get spent on Wood’s option would have a better use somewhere else.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it will probably be unlikely we pick up that option. But it is still possible it will vest.
by APV on Sep 6, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
How many games is he at now? 40 something?
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
43. I guess it could happen.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
This year or next. Though I wouldn’t be surprised if they give Perez some semi-regular reps as closer to start off next season, in part to mitigate the chances of triggering the option.
by APV on Sep 6, 2009 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of Choo and the Wonder Girls….http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/HQ1F7462.jpg
Tribe in '09!!
by indiansfan20062000 on Sep 6, 2009 2:38 PM EDT reply actions
Who is that with Choo?
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s a bullpen catcher, Dave Wallace….
Tribe in '09!!
by indiansfan20062000 on Sep 6, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah, I was having trouble placing that face. And hair.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Here’s a picture of Wallace, taken by a fan….http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2434/3863305966_07168b3339_b.jpg
Tribe in '09!!
by indiansfan20062000 on Sep 6, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I was waiting for that….
Tribe in '09!!
by indiansfan20062000 on Sep 6, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think his knees would hold up…
Tribe in '09!!
by indiansfan20062000 on Sep 6, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Here’s Castrovince’s explanation of the picture…
http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/
Tribe in '09!!
by indiansfan20062000 on Sep 6, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Homer hungry
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
kinda surprising huff is coming back out. but wedgie is letting the guys go more lately it seems like
With Sowers, Huff, and Laffey it’s important to get these looks now considering they’re the prime candidates for one or two starting spots next year.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, campers, David Huff just guiled his way through 7 complete innings while giving up only two hits and one run. How about that.
I want it. I've been grinding it out for awhile.
I think you’re at Cranky Camp.
Oh sure. But this is drunk logic. Also, time-traveling potatoes.--AngG
I’d like to camp. We tried once, a lot of years ago. I didn’t stop raining though, and we had to go home…
Tribe in '09!!
by indiansfan20062000 on Sep 6, 2009 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
My family was the family of doom when it came to camping. Tornado once. Flood once. Hurricane once.
I don’t ever remember a forest fire, but that’s just because we weren’t in the west!
Oh sure. But this is drunk logic. Also, time-traveling potatoes.--AngG
Several times we tried. Once, there was a bear loose, and we went home ASAP. The other time, we got to the site, set up the HUGE tent, and then it started raining. The park ranger warned us about floods, and we hightailed it on out of there, only to return 3 days later, still raining BTW, to gather up stuff.
Tribe in '09!!
by indiansfan20062000 on Sep 6, 2009 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Grinding the gears of baseball.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Burning out the clutch of baseball.
Oh sure. But this is drunk logic. Also, time-traveling potatoes.--AngG
by Julie on Sep 6, 2009 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Brantley likes letters.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
by ClemsonGirl on Sep 6, 2009 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, we played for a run and we got a run. Hope it holds up.
I want it. I've been grinding it out for awhile.
Ben Francisco hit a home run today.
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
Manning has Teixeira for the MVP, and Underwood has Morals, becase Morales is top ten in AVG, RBI, and HR — all the “important” categories. Underwood also has Sabathia leading the Cy Young, because he’s leading the league in wins.
[sigh]
I think that Morales doesn’t get a whole lot of recognition because he’s not with BOS or NYY….
Tribe in '09!!
by indiansfan20062000 on Sep 6, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
why would you hate to say it? he’s far and away the most productive offensive player in the AL, and that’s before you factor in his defense— at CATCHER.
I’d have to agree, but I can’t stand the guy…
Tribe in '09!!
by indiansfan20062000 on Sep 6, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, that too, but mostly because he seems like a pretty boy….
Tribe in '09!!
by indiansfan20062000 on Sep 6, 2009 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
When I hear this name, it makes me think of sandwich cheeses.
Oh sure. But this is drunk logic. Also, time-traveling potatoes.--AngG
i hate to say it because as a college student in minnesota all i hear about is joe mauer and brett favre. and i dont really get to appreciate mauer’s greatness because i cant stand him anymore because of ridiculous love given to him in the area. you kinda have to be here to understand. he is way more to the cities than lebron is to cleveland.. remember, he grew up right in st. paul and was a D1 football recruit and D2/D1 basketball recruit.. so i get enough mauer
mauer is beating morales in OBP by 80 points and SLG by 15
and morales plays first base. mauer is a catcher.
mauer leads the AL in runs created, WAR, EQA. you name it, mauer leads. i don’t know how the world remains so blind.
Underwood said that next STO is airing “Mount Union football”, and I thought he said “non-union football”.
CFO of Klezmer
I actually went to one of the replacement Browns games during the 1987 NFL strike. They passed out white baseball caps to all those who entered with the NFL logo on it, so it was pretty clear whose side you were on. In an extreme bit of irony, the halftime entertainment was the Baltimore Colts marching band, who, according to their announcer, “showed that the NFL spirit was alive and well in Baltimore.”
I want it. I've been grinding it out for awhile.
I love hearing ‘The Final Countdown’ playing in the background….
Tribe in '09!!
by indiansfan20062000 on Sep 6, 2009 3:31 PM EDT reply actions
I love hearing ‘The Final Countdown’
playing in the background…. Period
My uncle says you've got a screw loose.
Your uncle molests collies.
by gorilla_baller on Sep 6, 2009 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
That’ll get your heart beating….
Tribe in '09!!
by indiansfan20062000 on Sep 6, 2009 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Ballgame
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Sep 6, 2009 3:33 PM EDT reply actions
Is it my eyes, or did Kerry Wood just….smile???
Tribe in '09!!
by indiansfan20062000 on Sep 6, 2009 3:33 PM EDT reply actions
pads team lead in victories – Laffey (7), Sowers (6). Lee (7) won’t be adding to this total.
It would like nice to see someone with double digits in the win column.
It would like nice to see someone with double digits in the win column.
It’d be better if that person had an ERA under 6
by APV on Sep 7, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions
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