AL Central payroll roundup at BP
OK, I'll fan the flames of the burgeoning LGT class war! My apologies to the poor non-subscribing bastards.
This is a brief, forward-looking article on the payroll situations around the division. It offers a relatively rosy take on the Tribe, avoiding the temptation to exaggerate the albatross-ity of Hafner's contract. But there's nothing new on the Indians here -- it is more helpful for its info on the competition.
about 2 years ago
cleveland teamer
80 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
I’m a bad person, but I’d like to see them struggle early, and attendence be lower than projected, leading to some panic about their payroll.
None of us are perfect.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jan 29, 2010 9:55 PM EST up reply actions
So who would you rather win the AL Central (assuming it’s not the Indians)? The Tigers with their ~$100M payroll? Or the White Sox who figure to spend $75M in 2010?
Me, I like the Twins. Consistenty competitive teams with a payroll in keeping with their small to mid market status. We should be so good.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
So you’d rather not be in the playoffs like the Twins?
I get it, the Twins have made some weird moves that haven’t gotten good reviews. But they’ve been winning pretty consistently. The Indians have made some moves that pretty much everyone has liked, but they haven’t exactly been all that successful.
I suspect quite a few Twins fans wish their front office was more like ours, despite recent problems.
You see the GM rankings coming out of the woodwork now … even at his nadir, most folks who study these things keep putting Shapiro in the top seven or eight.
Which only means that the people who are making these evaluations aren’t watching what’s happening on the field.
Could these be the same folks who voted Wedge Manager of the Year?
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
Anyway, my point wasn’t that the Twins fans should envy us, it’s more just that the grass is always greener. I guarantee you, there is a huge contingent of Twins fans who are driven nuts by the moves their front office makes, particularly in building a lineup.
I agree that the Twins GM doesn’t get as good of reviews as Shapiro. But the Twins have been pretty successful despite this. It’s nuts to not at least give them credit for putting together a winning product even if we don’t like the way they go about it.
What does this have to do with anything?
What in the LGT universe is wrong with admiring the Twins for putting a winning team on the field more often than the Indians have recently?
I’m not allowed to think they’ve done some good things because their GM isn’t rated as highly as Shapiro?
winning product = credit due is a slippery slope.
why does every counter point these days turn into this “LGT is censoring my opinion” garbage?
The original comment I responded to, was “I’d rather die a thousand deaths than be like the Twins.”
Which is nuts. I’d rather have a winning team, regardless of how they were put together, than not have a winning team even though I liked how they assemble it. Good enough for you?
Brick’s point is that his disagreement with you on this particular topic is not a consensus suppresion of what you are allowed to think or feel about the Twins.
it’s not that nuts. and you iterate again that winning by any means is preferable to not winning at all. i submit that i wouldn’t be alone to say that i’d just assume not win in it was by way of having an unfair advantage like the yankees do. and that’s my point. you’d rather win The Twin Way™ then lose in the manner the Indians do. My question is where do you draw the line. fwembt obviously draws his on this side of the twins, by way of hyperbole because he doesn’t like their style of baseball or whatever. which isn’t all that crazy if you ask me.
I’d rather win any way than lose the Indians way. This shouldn’t be all that hard to understand.
I think it is crazy to care about how your team wins. If they win with a large payroll like the Yankees, so be it. If they win by doing things that smart baseball people think is dumb that’s fine too.
I’ve always liked the way Shapiro’s Indians have made their decisions and not liked the way the Twins do. But it hasn’t worked out at all and it’s absurd to keep thinking that the Indians are smart or whatever and the Twins are dumb when the results on the field say otherwise.
who doesn’t understand?
should we give the yankees credit as well?
several back-and-forth paragraphs saved.
yes.
So your position is that it matters how the Indians win. That if they won by having an owner come in and spend tons of money that wouldn’t be OK with you. Or that if the team got incredibly lucky and won despite making what seemed like bad player personnel decisions that wouldn’t be OK.
it’s my position that it matters TO ME.
correct, for me. i also find no pleasure in slam-dunking over a small child on a 6ft rim.
possibly. i’d have to see that scenario play out. probably depends on what luck and what decisions.
by Brick. on Feb 1, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
it seemed necessary.
i already stated:
i submit that i wouldn’t be alone to say that i’d just assume not win in it was by way of having an unfair advantage like the yankees do.
yet you asked:
So your position is that it matters how the Indians win.
emphasizing the ‘to me’ was an attempt to avoid a follow-up comment where you claim that you shouldn’t have to think that and LGT can’t make you and it’s “nuts” to think otherwise.
I had to make it clear that you actually care how a team wins. To me that’s crazy.
But I’m glad we are done with this conversation.
It is crazy.
Especially considering that the Twins have had to deal with losing a Cy Young and the fall off of a promising young pitching stud – meanwhile have managed to post up a consistently good/great bullpen (this is where I’d like to be a whole lot like the Twins and not at all like the Indians) with average starting pitching help. Finding adequate infield production while getting some help at the corners, anchored by an impact-bat at C.
It isn’t crazy. If it is crazy to care how a team wins how does anyone justify hating the Yankees? If winning at any cost at any time is perfectly appealing then congratulations, the Yankees are your model franchise.
I agree that the Yankees have the highest payroll in baseball and therefore an unfair advantage. We’re comparing a similar team in a similar market and looking at their flaws and strengths. Yankees are a pretty terrible comp – I’m pretty sure Brick was just “throwing it out there.”
The argument is if it matters how they win. The Yankees win by garnering an unfair advantage, but that’s how they do it. The only logical end to the conversation is that you, on some level, do think it matters how you win or that you think the Yankees are perfectly fine.
This is just semantics. Lots of different subjects can be described under the heading of “how they win,” but that doesn’t make them all the same, nor does it even mean that they’re all in the same category. Those are just very broad words.
by Jay on Feb 2, 2010 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
As a Tribe fan I hate a few teams—within our division the White Sox trouble me the most, because of their long-term market advantages. True, they split a market with a more favored sibling, rendering their market more nearly comparable with Detroit or Minneapolis, but they still probably come out ahead. Minneapolis is creeping up, so I’ll keep a watchful eye on them, but Detroit is such a beleaguered town that it’s hard for me to hate them in quite the same way, although I do get very fired up for a Tigers-Indians series.
Intra division: Sox, Twins, Detroit, KC
No mercy for the Reds.
As an Indians fan and a baseball fan, the Yankees are in a special category. It’s hard to sustain the grudge against the Red Sox, and it’s hard for me to relate to people “on a baseball level” who feel otherwise about the Yankees.
I would however, imagine, that if the Indians could suddenly afford a $150m payroll, you wouldn’t complain about it, would you?
Be honest.
I've really got to change my signature.
There’s a difference between disliking a team’s style a play and objecting to a team’s unfair advantages.
I still don’t like Jeter, or Jobba, or ARod or Cazzi Culone or any other of those douche nozzles on that team.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
Are Tyler and I the only people here who truly hate the Twins? I don’t find my viewpoint “nuts.” It’s a personal opinion and yes, I’d rather not watch baseball than cheer for the Twins.
The Twins are my least favorite central team, but don’t approach the amount of hate I have for the Jackasses or Sawx.
So, you basically hate them both the same is what you’re saying. You reserve the top spot for the Yankees mostly just for ceremonial or symbolic reasons.
by Jay on Feb 2, 2010 7:41 PM EST up reply actions
I’m with you on the SS I Hate the Twins.
"Nobody ever thinks, 'Hey, maybe I’m actually an idiot.'" - Jay
by woodsmeister on Feb 2, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
I agree that the Twins GM doesn’t get as good of reviews as Shapiro. But the Twins have been pretty successful despite this. It’s nuts to not at least give them credit for putting together a winning product even if we don’t like the way they go about it.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t give them credit. I’m saying, we always want what we don’t have. We’re sitting here saying, our front office is so smart, it’s just a shame the drafting and pitcher development hasn’t been that great. And they’re over there saying, these guys have such a great knack for drafting and pitcher development, it’s a shame we don’t have a super-sharp GM for trades and contracts the way that Cleveland does.
The Twins also are often viewed, at least by us, as having had more success than the Indians. I don’t think that’s really the case, especially if you consider competitive issues in any given year. I think it’s merely the case that we’ve often been surprised by their successful seasons and surprised by our unsuccessful ones, but the overall track record is pretty even.
by Jay on Feb 1, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
That makes sense. I actually would much rather the Indians approach and our GM than the Twins’. I understand it better and I think it’s the smarter approach. I just think we need to give them some credit for what they’ve accomplished.
If the Indians were performing at the level we all though they would, the Twins would not be experiencing the level of success that they have experienced because we would be stomping them into the ground like the slap hitting bunt punks they are.
"Nobody ever thinks, 'Hey, maybe I’m actually an idiot.'" - Jay
by woodsmeister on Feb 2, 2010 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
So we should kidnap the Twins front office every year and force them at gunpoint to draft for the Indians? I think I could support that plan.
by VA tribe fan on Feb 2, 2010 10:02 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, well at least a coupla those losses were in October. At least they were playing games that mattered in October.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
I guess it’s kind of weird to post BP articles here anyway, given that most BP subscribers would come across them without a link from LGT.
by cleveland teamer on Jan 29, 2010 1:58 PM EST reply actions
Not a joke, I just got to thinking about the handful of complaints there have been lately about subscription links.
by cleveland teamer on Jan 29, 2010 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
No, you’re right, they were complaining about not being able to afford a subscription.
Anyway, there is a new Justin Masterson interview up at BP and it’s free content.
by cleveland teamer on Feb 1, 2010 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
So payroll flexibility: what I’m wondering is, how does everyone see things panning out in the next couple of years with FA signings and/or extensions for Choo/Cabrera? Obviously the answer is ‘too early to tell,’ but let’s assume a reasonable number of prospects develop into major league contributors and the team shows potential for contending in 2011 or 2012. Seems like there will be enough wiggle room in the payroll to consider going after an expensive SP or a big bat.
by cleveland teamer on Jan 29, 2010 4:35 PM EST reply actions
We know from recent history that extensions and arbitration buyout deals happen in the spring, and Choo and Asdrubal will be among those deals (probably next spring, unless the Indians are really comfortable this spring).
Right now, arbitration is a better payday for the player than free agency, in the sense that salaries are still compared to comps from previous seasons in which there was no down market. There’s no rational basis from the team’s perspective for going to arbitration. The Indians more than most teams have to commit long term and buy out arbitration deals, not just for the cost certainty, but it’s their only way to secure one or two years of star-caliber players in the primes of their careers for a price below market value.
I only see this club using free agency to bring in support players, like Paul Byrd. It’s not that the Indians can’t pay one guy $20M per season, but it’s just difficult to do that unless the rest of the roster is young, productive, and under control. And if the Indians are willing to pay a guy $20M, the Red Sox, Yankees, or Dodgers are probably willing to pay $25.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
Featured Stories
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recent FanShots
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Photo: Padres fan regrets letting mother capture moment with Trevor Hoffman
- Marlins agree to unretire No. 5 for Logan Morrison, who will honor his father’s favorite player
- Weatherman Derek Holland does Dallas TV
- Ask Alex: Will Julio Teheran or Matt Moore win rookie of the year?
- Ku Klux Klan, umpires and bowling: Why the minor leagues tossed out Jim Evans academy
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
