Victor Martinez heading to Detroit
According to ESPN, a Venezuelan reporter says that Victor Martinez is leaving Boston to sign a 4 year, $50 million contract with the Tigers. His report says that the Orioles and White Sox were also trying to sign Martinez but were outbid by Detroit. So it looks like we'll be facing Victor 19 times a year now.
over 1 year ago
Buckeye Brad
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Bah. You just know that Cliff Lee is going to be a Yankee to boot.
Hope the Tigers use him as catcher, so that at least the Indians can steal some bases against Detroit. If they’re smart they make him a first baseman and move Cabrera to DH.
Lee’s stayin’ in Texas.
Can’t wait for the first “I’m sooo glad to be a Tiger” story about Marinez. Bleck!
Our best players wear suits.
Lee’s stayin’ in Texas.
Just like Sabathia was going to the West Coast? Tens of millions of dollars tends to gloss over regional preferences.
Pretty sure I had Cazzi Culone goin’ to the Yankees – pretty sure.
Lee’s a different character than Sabathia. But here’s the great thing about this and sports in general, there will be a diffinitive out come. Maybe you’re right and maybe I’m right and then again we could be both be wrong. We’ll see.
Our best players wear suits.
Lee would be turning down a rumored 6/140 from the Yanks. He is holding out for a 7th year. No mention of Texas.
Let’s just take this with a grain of salt. You don’t suppose this originates as a self-serving rumor from NYC do you? Nah, what’s the chances of that ever happening?
Our best players wear suits.
Nolan Ryan is originating some less than great rumors, from the Texas side.
Cue Chuck telling me that Nolan is “playing possum”, with both “playing” and “possum” misspelled.
by afh4 on Nov 23, 2010 3:56 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
You’re right, I can’t spell – but I am a whizz at math.
Here’s the concept: Lee is not driven entirely by money, all Texas hasta do is come close – and don’t forget there’s no state income tax in Texas. Like I said, let’s just see how this plays out.
Our best players wear suits.
Lee is not driven entirely by money
While this may very likely be true, where does it come from? Your opinion? Most of the reports out there mention Lee looking for what Sabathia got ~7 years at 23 million, and who can blame him? He experienced the “its a business” aspect of the game over the last season and a half, and its finally his turn to cash in on that. This may be his only chance to net a huge payday, I see no problem with him going after it. Also, I always get confused by the ‘no state income tax’ argument. Surely the state is recouping that money in some way, like property or sales taxes.
There are real differences in overall taxation levels across the states, but the main thing is that an income tax comes right off the top. Lee can rent a home in Texas if he wants to duck property taxes, and sales tax is basically regressive, more or less insignificant to those in the highest tax brackets.
Don’t most states now require visiting athletes to pay income tax for games played there? I can see how its a factor, but this gets brought up every time as a huge deal for Texas or Florida teams, but I don’t see anyone mentioning it for Seattle teams, or for Chicago or Pennsylvania teams, who have low state income tax levels.
Hi everyone, this is just a general response to the taxation issue from a public tax accountant (not directly at your comment Jay), but Cliff Lee is a resident of Arkansas, and therefore, Arkansas gets to tax Cliff on any of his income.
If, say, he were to become a resident of Texas, he would get to avoid state income tax, but until he does so, Arkansas has first crack at taxing his income. I did a little research, and Arkansas’ current individual income tax rate is 7%.
So the answer to everyone’s question, his home state (state of residency) gets to tax him, because that is where he resides legally.
Anything in life is possible, except for skiing through revolving doors.
by MooneysRebellion on Nov 24, 2010 8:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No, it would not. But I was just mentioning that as long as he wishes to remain an Arkansas resident, that is the place in which he is first taxed at. My guess would be that he immediately established residence in TX and then purchases a “vacation/second” home in AR.
Anything in life is possible, except for skiing through revolving doors.
by MooneysRebellion on Nov 24, 2010 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Cliff Lee is about to become richer than his wildest dreams, no matter who he signs with. This much is certain. And you’re right, Lee should be cynical about the “business of baseball” And I agree that argues against his signing with anybody other than the Yankees. So I’ll concede that the rationale argument is that Lee signs with NY. Another argument on your side is that Lee’s agent will be pushing for the biggest money deal – since he’s got a dog in that fight.
But I think that Lee values some things more than the Almighty Dollar and two of those things are his privacy and his family.
So, yeah, the smart money says that Lee should sign with the highest bidder and that hasta be NY. I’m betting against the smart money on this one. Like I said, let’’s see how this plays out.
Our best players wear suits.
So your line about Lee not being driven entirely by money is completely made up. It’s all conjecture. Not that I should be surprised. What I guess I don’t get is why you are so vehement about this to the point that you’re pretending to have the ability to read his mind. No one has a dog in this race, if Lee goes to NY or stats in Texas, both teams are still big obstacles in the path of future Indians’ success.
Also, Lee’s agent should be acting in Lee’s best interest. If Lee’s agent is asking for a big money deal, its pretty reasonable to believe his client is too.
I’ve never met Cliff Lee. However I do work with a few guys from Benton Arkansas, one of which attends the same church as the Lee family. He describes Cliff as a very private person and one who’s very close to his family. And if you’ve spent any time in rural Arkansas you’ll find that family is valued above money. I know that this is not unique to rural Arkansas, and my colleague may be exaggerating his relationship with the Lee’s. But I don’t think so. So, you’re right – it’s mostly conjecture. Then again just about every opinion on this site is based on conjecture.
Like I’ve said before, let’s see how this plays out. If Lee signs with the Yankees I’m quite willing to admit to bloviating on this one. Just as long as you’re willing to do the same if he signs with the Rangers.
Our best players wear suits.
Jay Jaffe complicates things in the BP comments:
I’ve heard from enough people inside the industry that Lee doesn’t particularly care to remain with the Rangers to believe it – the geographic ties aren’t that strong, and he has concerns about the heat, among other issues. Not that the Yankees won’t wind up regretting the deal in the long run, because who really wants to commit to six years of a 32-year-old pitcher?
Heh. Actually it’s only 1 year of a 32 year old pitcher, with a contract including but not limited to 1 year of a 37 year old pitcher, and possibly even an additional year with a 38 year old pitcher.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Nov 24, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I really don’t see how I’m bloviating here. I questioned your ability to predict where Lee goes, and said I wouldn’t be surprised nor blame him for going to the Yankees. I’m not predicting him to go anywhere, and am mostly confused as to why you’re so determined into making this some kind of contest.
What else is there to ask for, other than a big-money deal? The clubs are what they are and where they are.
Even if Cliff doesn’t want the Yankees, he still wants them in the bidding, wants their very highest offer on the table.
That wasn’t meant to mean that Lee wouldn’t want the Yankees to be bidding. Chuck somewhat implied that Lee’s agent may push him in a direction he doesn’t want to go, and to that, I call bull.
So you’re saying that Lee’s agent won’t encourage Lee to sign with the team that gives him, the agent, the most money? Isn’t this a bit self-contradictory?
Our best players wear suits.
If Lee values his family and his privacy so much, why did he say that the New York fans’ treatment of his wife wouldn’t necessarily keep him from playing there next year?
You’re just making stuff up.
Come on, four billion!
Why do you think he said it? Couldn’t be diplomacy could it? Nah, that would be just too, too obvious.
Our best players wear suits.
What is his motivation to be diplomatic with them if it’s not money?
Come on, four billion!
by Joel D on Nov 23, 2010 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
“Cliff Lee is about to become richer than his wildest dreams, no matter who he signs with. "
But that’s pretty much the case with any big-name free agent, and they almost always take the most possible years and most possible millions, dream or no dream. IMO, to assume otherwise with any player (ie, to say that he’s going to take a “discount” because of the vast amount of money being discussed) based on a hunch or even random circumstantial facts, is unrealistic. The vast majority of time, that assumption will be wrong.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Nov 24, 2010 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
Really?
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Nov 24, 2010 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
This.
I’m 100% over this whole “he’s not in it for the money” crap.
If in the same situation, I would take the money. You would take the money. Cliff is going to take the money.
Going for the money. No doubt. Several reasons: first, he’s been bleating about the max since Philly, otherwise why trade him on a affordable contract to get back little on the dollar? Second, season is 6-7 months, but 50% of that time on the road. Third, Ya think he can’t afford to bring his family to life with him in a second fantastic palace during the season in New York or in god forsaken New Jersey/Long Island? Another $15-20 million will set the family and all the yearlings into the next millenia. I’m sure his agent is hammering that home. How could you be so selfish not to look after your kids, and your kids’, kids’, kids’, kids’, and their mistresses?
by Bogalusa Bomber on Nov 26, 2010 10:21 PM EST up reply actions
Victor in Comerica (196 PA): .225/.321/.349.
Giving him a four year deal is a mistake, in my opinion.
Two salient facts here.
First, this is a bad deal for the Tigers. That makes it good for the Indians.
Second, we are unlikely to face Victor 19 times a year. I’ll be we don’t face him 50 times over four years.
Third, this sucks anyway.
by Jay on Nov 23, 2010 1:58 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Might I prevail upon you to give me a couple of talking points that I can take to my best friend who is an irrational Tiger fan who thinks every deal Dombrowski makes is a good one? You’re much more eloquent than I am, especially when I’m this mad. (My anger is more over my friend’s jubilation than the move itself). My point is basically four years is a long time and at the back end of the contract you’ll be paying 12 million for John Olerud as your 1B/DH. For some context, here’s where we left off:
As far as his defense, I’d say his numbers are concerning, but maybe not quite alarming. Some of the bases being stolen on the pitchers, and not a result of his arm. He definitely is a below league average thrower. But judging by stats I’ve seen, he may not be so below average that he is a total liability. I see him as a DH, and potential safeguard if Alex Avila stumbles as the starter. Eventually he’s our full-time DH. Dombrowski does it again.
My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts.
They’re paying $12.5 million a year for a catcher’s age 33 to 37 years.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Nov 23, 2010 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Right, but he’s quick with the “he won’t be a catcher the whole contract” … which is a fair point. But I’m saying that he’s a good hitter but he’s not a 12.5 million corner IF/DH…and that’s assuming he’s still putting up his current numbers at age 37. I’m just trying to make sure I’m not missing a crucial nail that I can hammer him with.
I’m 34 years old and poking holes in this guy’s pleasure is still extremely important to me.
My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts.
Can we assume that FatCab will be able to play first base throughout the length of Victor’s contract? If they have to move FatCab to DH, than that leaves Victor at first base, where his power is adequate and probably not up to first base standards.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Nov 23, 2010 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
I’ll wait until I see the final numbers. I’m skeptical that 50M gets it done here. Put yourself in Victor’s shoes; if the story is right, aren’t you going back to the Red Sox and getting them to come up with just a few million more?
My main comment is, “Dombroswski does it again?” Am I reading that right? He’s actually chest-beating about this GM who has gotten them to the playoffs exactly once? The guy has a big-big payroll to deal with. His big achievement is, he spends it. Doesn’t get to the playoffs, but he sure spends all that money, no doubt about that. Dombrowski does it again!
by Jay on Nov 23, 2010 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yep. You are definitely reading it right. This is an extremely intelligent person whom I’d trust in literally any other situation than to effectively judge deals that the GM of his favorite baseball team makes. He thinks the Peralta deal is smart. He is not remotely worried that Austin Jackson is a great candidate to regress next season, thus negating the brilliance of that deal (which, thus far, has actually worked out rather well for them), he was convinced freaking Dontrelle was going to turn it around and make the Cabrera deal even MORE of a watershed moment for DD than he already believed it was. He even trumpets the arrival of the Gerald Lairds and Adam Everetts. Literally, in his mind, Dombrowski is ALWAYS “doing it again.” And he means that in the good way.
My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts.
Last three seasons, top five payrolls, $125 million per year, and the result … 80 wins per year, no playoffs.
Seriously, does anyone other than the Mets accomplish less while spending more?
by Jay on Nov 23, 2010 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The Mets do provide the occasional spectacular choke job, which has plenty of entertainment value.
by kennesawmountainwahoo on Nov 23, 2010 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
The Cubs.
Anything in life is possible, except for skiing through revolving doors.
by MooneysRebellion on Nov 24, 2010 8:16 AM EST up reply actions
DIVORCE
I hold back at least 3 Ambriz jokes a week.
by westbrook on Nov 24, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
mcCOURT
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Nov 28, 2010 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
Varitek isn’t getting any younger, and I can’t imagine that the Red Sox are thrilled about the Saltalamacchia Era beginning next year.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Nov 23, 2010 4:59 PM EST up reply actions
His report says that the Orioles and White Sox were also trying to sign Martinez but were outbid by Detroit.
Also, the White Sox deal was reportedly 3 years/$48 million. Does this mean Victor hates the White Sox? Or is that extra year that important?
For a 32-year-old catcher that extra year is pure gold.
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Nov 23, 2010 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
For a 37-year-old catcher/DH? Why walk away from an extra guaranteed year?
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Nov 23, 2010 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
This may have been some kind of joke that flew right over my head, but why would he hate the White Sox?
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Nov 24, 2010 10:33 AM EST up reply actions
This may have been some kind of joke that flew right over my head, but why would you wonder why anyone would hate the White Sox?
Touche.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Nov 28, 2010 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
Facing Victor 19 times a year would be good because there are only 18 games scheduled in the regular season. ALCS here we come. - all AL Central final.
Really? I thought we played every division opponent 19 times. My bad. I guess an even number makes sense so you have an equal number of games at each park.
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 24, 2010 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
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