#Indians minor league SS Carlos Rivero claimed on waivers by #Phillies. He hit .232 with 16 2B, 2 3B, 6 HRs, 48 RBI at AA Akron.
UPDATE: From TribeInsider:
The #indians today outrighted INF WES HODGES, OF CHAD HUFFMAN & INF DREW SUTTON to AAA Columbus...40 man now at 36 players
Hoynes via twitter. APV's midseason take on Rivero : "There are disappointing hitters, too, and Carlos Rivero probably leads the group. After consecutive seemingly under the radar seasons, it was about time for Rivero to breakout. Instead he just seems broken. A .228/.278/.313 line together with 19 errors in the field goes a long way to ending his prospect status."
over 1 year ago
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He has no business on the 40-man roster at this point, so I can’t say I disagree with the move. But Rivero is the kind of inconsequential roster claim that could come back to hurt in a few years. Rivero is a big bodied athletic SS who has never had a breakout offensive year and whose body type has raised questions about his ability to remain at SS. The argument for him is that he has remained at SS despite those concerns, and his LD% (prior to this season) was consistently high, suggesting he was getting unlucky on balls-in-play. The counter is that he doesn’t project as a good defensive SS, even if he stays there, and after 3 consecutive years of getting “unlucky” you have to start wondering if there is something systematically wrong with him. And his 2010 was atrocious. That said…I’m hoping he doesn’t go all Chris Archer on us.
He’s just collateral damage, as far as I can tell. There was no way to keep him on the 40, even though he probably needed to be 40’d when he was.
I guess if there’s any argument with his handling, it’s that they could’ve snuck him through the Rule 5 instead of 40’ing him, right?
Timing seems wrong to me. If you have to be added after 5th year if you’re an age 18 signee, shouldn’t it have been this offseason?
I’m thinking the loophole is this: Bryson was in the last “draft and follow” class, i.e., he was drafted out of junior college in 2006, played for his JC team that season, and was signed in 2007. Ergo:
- He was drafted at age 18, in 2006, however …
- 2007 was his first pro season, therefore …
- 2010 was only his fourth pro season.
Under the new rules, players drafted at age 18 are exempt from Rule 5 until the end of their fifth pro season. The rule change was retroactive to players who were drafted and signed under the old rules, so oddly enough, the last draft-and-follow class, signed at 19, gets an extra protected year.
by Jay on Nov 4, 2010 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Bryson. Rivero was added to the roster a year ago for rule 5 purposes.
by APV on Nov 4, 2010 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
So, I’m asking about Rivero. Supposed to get added after 5th year if you’re signed at 18 right? 2010 was 5th year.
It was his fifth year in the U.S. He was signed in March 2005 and rostered at the end of his fifth season, November 2009.
So he was in pro baseball in 2005, just not showing up on B-Ref. Got it. He was in instructs or something.
Latin American leagues often don’t show up in the stats on U.S. baseball sites, but once a player is signed, the Rule 5 clock starts ticking regardless of if or when he actually plays. There aren’t any “fourth option” type exceptions, either.
by Jay on Nov 5, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry, I got confused myself. I was talking about Bryson.
by Jay on Nov 4, 2010 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Rivero was added because he was exposed to rule 5 and in the afterglow of his promising 2008 season, it was thought he needed to be rostered. Didn’t expect him to stagnate so badly at Akron.
by APV on Nov 3, 2010 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Not the usual result, but not an uncommon one, either.
by Jay on Nov 4, 2010 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Hoynes with a decent, quick take on the guys that are waiting: Germano, Marte, Valbuena, Todd and Duncan will all be on pins and needles till the 19th, when rosters are set.
I think you take your chances and take Duncan off. You might lose him, but no big loss. He was available to be signed to a minor league free agent contract last winter, and I don’t see how he’s changed his standing much with his 2010.
Todd seems like a clear keeper to me. Maybe they see something bad that doesn’t show up in the numbers.
With Marte, it seems obvious not to keep him on the roster if they aren’t giving him a shot at a full time job.
There is a lot of potential slough on the roster now. Lewis and Laffey are just temporary relief fodder. De La Cruz and Huff had terrible seasons. Rondon is on the TJ train. Herrmann and Tomlin aren’t exactly high-ceiling guys. Nix, Donald AND Valbuena. Trevor Crowe?
by APV on Nov 3, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Who are the potential additions? This isn’t a full list, but I think these guys of interest are at risk, and the bold names are the more likely additions:
Pitchers: Rob Bryson; Connor Graham; Nick Hagadone; Josh Judy; Adam Miller; Cory Kluber; Zach McAllister; Omar Aguilar
Position: Jared Goedert; Josh Rodriguez
I’m not sure there’s room for even the bold names. I know Germano had a nice run out of the bullpen, but he’s not the type of arm you protect to put at risk somebody like Adam Miller. There are always Germanos floating around. Graham and Aguilar have control issues, but Aguilar keeps the ball in the park and gets his strikeouts. But really, why take their work over what Jess Todd did in Cbus, two years in a row? I think McAllister, like Pino last year, won’t be taken.
The position player decision is less clear. I don’t know where J-Rod fits on a roster with Donald, Nix, Valbuena, Marte, and Goedert, but I think he’s exactly the type of bench player who could be taken and who could stick in the NL. Tough call. Why Jordan Brown? Why roster Duncan? I think Duncan survives, because he’s right handed and can “play” the outfield. But why risk it – Xavier Nady, Austin Kearns, Jonny Gomes, Marcus Thames – they’re always available. Hell, Andruw Jones, even.
There’s a lot of dead weight on the roster already, and this year, at least, I think some of the at-risk guys are more intriguing than the rostered bubble players.
Josh Rodriguez doesn’t get protected. Goedert only gets protected if Marte gets waived…you don’t keep them both on the roster. Miller is a tough choice. Bryson, Hagadone, Judy and Kluber seem like clear roster additions.
by APV on Nov 4, 2010 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions
So add Bryson, Hagadone, Judy, Kluber, Miller, Aguilar. Keep one of either Goedert/Marte.
That’s 40, and it’s not really a crunch at this point, because you could drop Brown or Duncan in you really want to keep Josh Rodriguez, or McAllister, or add someone from outside.
I guess I don’t have a good feel for how bad Rodriguez’ glove is.
Tony is now saying that Bryson is not rule 5 eligible…
I actually find it disturbing that the Indians have essentially no roster crunch at all.
by APV on Nov 4, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
If you fill the 40 now, somebody has to get DFA during spring training if a minor-league deal, non-roster invitee makes the team.
You’re better leaving the player exposed to the Rule 5, so the picking team must keep the player on the club all season or offer him back. At the end of ST, the player would be just a straight waiver claim and probably lost forever.
So, for example, you probably don’t roster Aguilar, knowing that he’s not likely to last on another team’s roster all year as a Rule 5. If the Indians were to designate him at the end of ST, another team would claim him, put him on its 40-man, and option him to AAA.
That’s true for guys not already on the roster.
For guys already on the roster, it works the opposite way.
by Jay on Nov 4, 2010 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Now that Bryson doesn’t need to be added I go Hagadone and Kluber as locks. That gets you to 37. Judy I don’t really know that much about but let’s add him to 38. And then for personal reasons like just to torture us, might as well add Adam Miller as well to get to 39.
That way you call still add a Rule 5 guy and you can still punt Germano, Crowe, Duncan, Brown whenever you need to.
Judy would seem like a likely addition. So that gives you 38. Any addition of an OFer should involve swapping out someone currently on the roster. I could see a corner infielder occupying one spot on the roster. I could also see adding a 3rd catcher to the 40-man from outside the organization. An additional pitcher could be added at the expense of either part of the bullpen scruff or a Jordan Brown/Trevor Crowe cut (there is no reason to have Trevor Crowe and Ezequiel Carrera on the roster). Seems like another good year to spend a lottery ticket on a Rule 5 player.
by APV on Nov 5, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
It depends what he is throwing, and I think we have to trust the Indians personnel on this. Tony listed him as getting his fastball up to 93, which is a great sign. But there are good 93 mph fastballs and bad ones, and he is going to need his slider to work, too.
by APV on Nov 5, 2010 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I like what Germano gave the Tribe last year.
by JulioBernazard on Nov 4, 2010 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
No. It is at 36, but it is really 38 because Santana and Grady haven’t been added to it.
by APV on Nov 3, 2010 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Oops…you are right. It is technically at 34, but it is actually 36 because of Santana and Grady.
by APV on Nov 3, 2010 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t see a reason to protect Goedert — he tailed off badly and demonstrated that his earlier success was likely a mirage (as people had suspected all along). The danger in NOT protecting Marte is that it absolutely forces the team to locate a third baseman to take over that spot next year (I don’t think Nix is the answer — I hope the Indians don’t either!). There’s not a lot out there within the Indians reach (unless you’re attracted to the Nick Punto’s and Chad Tracy’s of the world). So, it might be prudent to hang on to Marte as insurance — just in case they CAN’T come up with a viable, interim third baseman for next year. I wouldn’t endanger a good, young pitcher to keep him, but keeping him makes more sense than protecting Goedert to me.
'If I'm not here, 'I'll be somewhere else.'' Andy Marte
Nix is the confusing one.
His value is his glove at 2B and the offense he can provide as a 2B. If he’s not playing 2B, I don’t see his utility. He’s not a backup SS, and he apparently isn’t a 3B either. His bat means less at 3B, even though offense at 3B was down all around the league. Plus, his defensive limitations leaves Donald as the backup SS, which I guess is fine in a pinch.
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