Spring Training News/Game Thread: 3-10-2010
by Ryan on Mar 10, 2010 12:17 AM EST
in News
212 comments
News of the Day:
On a cool Arizona afternoon, the Indians' pitching duel keeps heating up for Aaron Laffey, David Huff and Mitch Talbot | cleveland.com
The most interesting Spring Training battle this spring to me is the battle for the last two spots in the rotation. If the battle was based on past performance, Laffey would have things locked up, but Mitch Talbot, one of his competitors for the spot, is out of options. David Huff is the other pitcher who seems to be in the top tier, though there's a group of other younger pitchers who aren't that far back of the frontrunners.
CastroTurf - News and Notes
The Indians are probably moving Wes Hodges to first base this season, according to Anthony Castrovince. Hodges' defense isn't going to keep him at third, so he's going to have to have his bat get him to the majors. And his bat was very poor last season, so time is running out quickly for the 25-year-old.
Wood not dwelling on trade speculation | indians.com: News
As mentioned in yesterday's FanShot, the Indians and Twins would seem to match up in that the Indians have a closer they wouldn't mind dealing and the Twins need one with Joe Nathan now likely out for the season. But even if you get past the general reluctance for teams to make intra-league trades, Wood's contract is a major barrier. The Twins would be on the hook for $10.5M, and possibly $11.0M in 2011 if he finishes 55 games. Perhaps the Twins would have some interest later in the season, after they try internal options, but I think the vested option is going to be a deal-breaker to a lot of potential suitors, and especially to a mid-market team like the Twins.
Today's Game
Cleveland vs San Diego, 3:05PM
Lineups: TBD
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The Indians are probably moving Wes Hodges to first base this season
Not that Wes Hodges has a good-looking future in the major leagues, but somewhere Jordan Brown just got a little more exasperated.
Maybe it’s just me, but if I assume that a “prospect” is never going to make a big contribution at the MLB level, I get a little annoyed just hearing about him and wish he wasn’t in our system anymore.
Steel Nick
The turkey and cheetos sandwich bumped him up a notch in my book. More seriously, Mills really needs to have a great season to establish himself as someone to care about. I was high on him going into last season, but the numbers were not as optimistic as I was. Anything approaching mediocrity and he is taking his place in line with Brown and Hodges.
I still don’t get the Garko quote at all … is he talking about the post-game spread? Who’s forcing this guy to eat turkey burgers?
STBNL
Seriously. Plus, is someone seriously trying to say the post-game spread in Cleveland offers more “hippie” options than the one in Seattle?
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Mar 10, 2010 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
Ryan Garko is complaining that he didn’t get enough junk food? Based on the evidence presented, I’d say he did ok for himself.
I found that quote a little alarming. Especially the part about “real cream cheese”. I hope the Tribe’s nutrition program doesn’t encourage low-fat food that substitutes veggie oils for real fats. Provided these guys are exercising properly, they should be able to eat all the fresh meat & dairy they want. It’s the fast food and packaged food (ramen, microwaveable meals, chips) that the kids with the thinner paychecks in the minors tend to eat on their own that you really have to worry about.
No, not you. Your helmet!
by PatBordersHelmet on Mar 10, 2010 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe it’s just me, but if I assume that a "prospect" is never going to make a big contribution at the MLB level, I get a little annoyed just hearing about him and wish he wasn’t in our system anymore.
Here’s my take on this. For guys in the upper levels, I want to know what’s going on with them if I think there a decent chance that they’re going to have 50+ at-bats for the MLB club, or if there’s a decent chance that some other MLB team will want to trade for them. I don’t care about their status as prospects or their careers or opportunities, or whether they might miraculously improve to be a regular. But I am interested in contributions of that size.
Brown fits that, and I think Hodges does too. Andy Cannizaro does not. I think that’s why Castro writes about them, and why the club talks about them, and why they get ST at-bats.
Clearly the contribution of anyone of those guys is trivial. I’d guess that sum of all of those contributions is real, but minor. So I follow it. And I want our Browns and Hodges and Herrmanns and Bergers to be better than the other guys’.
by dgcambridge on Mar 10, 2010 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m hoping the Twins get revenue-drunk off their new stadium and ignore the vesting option in win now/OMG MAUER IS A GOING TO BE A FA mode.
I’m actually going to be able to listen to today’s game live…joy. According to Hoynes, Huff, Wood, Judy, Herrmann, Putnam, Gosling, Gomez and Rivera are on board to pitch. Sounds like good times.
But why are those two bothering poor Gomez?
by dgcambridge on Mar 10, 2010 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
hoynsie #Indians lineup: SS Cabrera, CF Sizemore, RF Choo, DH Hafner, 3B Peralta, 1B LaPorta, 2b Grudzielanek, C Redmond, LF Crowe, LHP Huff.
Manny got to 6 regulars and decided that was enough.
But hooray for LaPorta.
On the 7th player he rested…
I could really use an oscillation overthruster
by stuart dean on Mar 10, 2010 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
The Cubs have a weak bullpen and should jump all over Wood. However, I think the new owner is a bit cash-strapped and like Minnesota will likely wait to see if the job can be done internally the first few months. If Wood peforms to the level the Indians are paying him, I think he is gone by July.
which is more valuable as a trade commodity? a lights-out wood closing games left at the start of the year, or a hurt or ineffective wood that puts his vesting option out of play because he isn’t finishing enough games?
I like that his name is a single syllable. I’m tired right now and I think all of our players should have single syllable names.
I never know what to say about Will Carroll’s stuff. He never seems to provide any reason for what he says, so I’m not sure how to critique it. JD Drew is one of Choo’s comps….so what? Who are his other comps? Why would you prioritize one comparison over another? What about Choo suggests he is “fragile”?
Correct me if I’m wrong but the RL/YL/GL stuff is some kind of statistical ‘points’ system, right? I just don’t understand him commenting “Laffey/Masterson/Dozens of young pitchers are in a danger zone in terms of an innings hike but they will be managed such that it won’t be a problem” and then rating them a red. Doesn’t that kind of defeat the purpose of the system?
I thought I had always heard his makeup was through the roof – one of the reasons scouts loved him. My guess is this is some vague reference by Carroll to LaPorta’s very visible religiosity, sort of like Chad Curtis back in the day.
It is based on a numeric system, but I don’t know the basis of it (is it published somewhere?), so it just seems like a black box. I also don’t understand the Laffey/Masterson red lights (on a side note – I just typed it as Maffey/Lasterson and decided I like those names better).
See this description from 2007.
It’s a simple enough system, at least for those readers who aren’t colorblind. Each band is different for each position/age combo, while the risk bands are based on standard deviations. For instance, Scott Rolen is part of the 3B/32-34 band; this change from age-31 to age-32 adds nearly 3% to his risk baseline. While this may or may not accurately reflect anything about Rolen himself, the actuarial baseline holds true. When you add in his other factors, Rolen comes up as a yellow. I don’t think anyone will be surprised by that.But what are the other factors? While position is by far the best single predictor, other factors such as injury history (functional and traumatic), body type, career path (as calculated by PECOTA’s attrition function), team factor, park factor, pitcher workload and mechanical profile (where appropriate), a scouting-based effort rating, and three other “secret sauce” factors go into the calculations. The factors add percentage points to the actuarial baseline, or in some cases actually subtract. Players at the respective positions are then compared to the non-age adjusted positional whole. That is then adjusted once more for team and league variables.
This makes the Drew/Choo comparison even more confusing for me. Choo’s most significant injury by leaps and bounds was his TJ surgery – but that’s because he used to pitch. How can that in any way represent some significant parallel between him and Drew. Sure they are corner outfielders and are listed as similar in body size (200 lbs, 5’11-6’1), but so are lots of guys.
I’m further skeptical about Carroll’s ability to establish appropriate baselines given the huge amount of information he is putting into his model. I think he has been gathering this data for close to a decade, but he would need huge sample sizes given the variation in all of the parameters he is looking at, and I am very skeptical that even a decade of data is enough different players to properly fill out the demands of these data.
I won’t disagree with this, but isn’t what he’s providing better than nothing?
It’s basically just an actuarial table.
Especially because of the terribly limited results he gets. Red, Yellow, Green… really? You’re going to put that much data and end up rating every significant baseball player in 3 categories—- color coded no less?
It just, I don’t know, tastes random.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Mar 10, 2010 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
That actually makes sense to me. Those color bands represent standard deviations of whatever the metric is he has developed. That, at least conceptually, I understand.
sure, but for as much detail that is put in, he loses the nuance by using one standard deviation.
Ah well, the whole article was very strange to me, and I think I thought the same thing last year.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Mar 10, 2010 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
There is something to be said for having results in such a way that they don’t appear to have more precision than they really have. He makes note of borderline ratings.
Which is fair, but being this generic really makes me wonder if it has any value at all.
And his explanations only make me question this more.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Mar 10, 2010 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
If you say so.
fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com
by Ryan Kelsey on Mar 11, 2010 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
Asdrubal takes 3rd on a ball that got away. And Grady just walked. Choo up, runners at the corners.
I’m not emotional about iPad...
Wood with a swinging strikeout, a pop out, deep fly out by Matt Stairs.
I’m not emotional about iPad...
Hafner with a liner to RF. Base hit. He’s hitting the ball hard apparently. When I saw him in BP when I was in AZ, he was crushing the ball.
How was your trip? I’m heading there tomorrow night. I’m very excited and definitely need the break.
I’m not emotional about iPad...
It was alright. Rained out on Sunday, so I only saw one game. I will write something up here in the next couple of days.
They are really not drawing. It stressed me out a bit.
i would have gone, but i was able to fly and stay in hotels for cheaper in new york city. i do not want to see arizona that much. i’ll just go to regular season games in cleveland and chicago instead.
Weren’t drawing much last spring when I was down.
by supermarioelia on Mar 11, 2010 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
As compact as the the Cactus League is, Goodyear really is way out there. Next year, when the D’Backs and the Rocks move from Tucson to Phoenix, teams will complain about the long drives out to play the reds and Indians. Obviously the desolate feel of the undeveloped area doesn’t help. Maybe it feels further than it may actually be. The fact there is literally nothing to do out there except see a ballgame probably hurts the casual fan’s desire to visit with their family. When I was out there last year, you’d be driving through some part of Phoenix and see a baseball game just off the freeway. Had I been driving and not my sister, the fan in me would have been overcome by the impulse to be at that game. Aside from the down economy, Goodyear is out-of-sight-out-of-mind in the Cactus League on the Western fringe of the league. That will likely change when they develop around the park. Coming from the Midwest pre/post-automotive mentality, I don’t see the demand or long-term viability of building up another new community in greater Phoenix, but for the Indians sake I guess I hope they do.
No, not you. Your helmet!
by PatBordersHelmet on Mar 11, 2010 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
I think this is as much a “feel” as anything; as someone with zero experience with the region I found that the park was, objectively, not that far from Phoenix-I think it’s like 20 miles or something. This is probably a confluence of things-me not even knowing where to look for the other parks, having to concentrate on point A to B not allowing me to notice exactly how drastic the change in community is, etc. But, ultimately, it’s just not that far. It’s not like it’s noticeably hard to reach.
Using a similar logic that because it is hotter now than when I woke up, it is going to be an inferno by next week
by APV on Mar 11, 2010 11:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’ve got friends and family in Arizona who I wish I could visit more often. I love it there. However, I don’t like what the build-up has done to the charm that once was of Phoenix and I do not like the water sourcing for pretty much the entire state. I’m no scientist, but I’ve read that Arizona is beyond it’s threshold for water consumption from current sources. With that in mind, and the desalinization plant in Yuma offline, how can more development effectively add to that consumption without furthering the problem?
I really like Hi-Corbett Field in Tucson. I love the way it is integrated into the community and a large local park with pools and a small zoo. It’s actually planned very, very intelligently on a non-automotive dependent model. Back East, we’re trying to get these things planned more like this. Out West, they’re moving away from these things to get commerce at the heart of the community a la Goodyear. If anything, Goodyear’s success or failure will be a good barometer of what model the near future holds.
No, not you. Your helmet!
by PatBordersHelmet on Mar 11, 2010 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Do you do city planning for a living or are you just a casual observer/concerned citizen?
I just wanted to believe.
The latter. I’ve only really been into this kinda stuff for the last 5 years—the same amount of time I’ve been a homeowner. I’m no expert. My idea of smart planning probably includes too many baseball diamonds.
No, not you. Your helmet!
by PatBordersHelmet on Mar 11, 2010 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
Pulled it out of his hat.
I’m not emotional about iPad...
by JimmyAB on Mar 10, 2010 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
GRADY!
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
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Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
Rick Manning is absolutely flabbergasted that someone with sunglasses on didn’t catch a fly ball. Hilarious.
Who needs affection when you can have blind hatred?
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Evan Lysacek: 2010 Olympic Gold Medalist ♥
And your device will get really hot and the battery will get drained after a few innings. That’s what happened to mine, anyway.
by cleveland teamer on Mar 10, 2010 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
I wasn’t paying attention, but whoever is in the booth with the guys just said “…and to a lesser degree.”
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Mar 10, 2010 4:49 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Asdrubal up and hits one off the wall sliding into second with a lead off double.
I’m not emotional about iPad...
Underwood made an actual funny. When Hermann came in the game, Underwood said “Rick [Manning], here’s a guy you have something in common with. Hermann graduated from Harvard.”
Bob Feller
I got Bob Feller’s autograph, and had the honor of throwing away his empty footlong container
by AONO on Mar 10, 2010 5:06 PM EST via mobile reply actions
The man is 91 years-old and still can take down a footlong hotdog? People really were made of stronger stuff back then.
No, not you. Your helmet!
by PatBordersHelmet on Mar 10, 2010 5:14 PM EST up reply actions
U-boats and Kamakazes didn’t get him, but a deep fried deli-meat will?
No, not you. Your helmet!
by PatBordersHelmet on Mar 10, 2010 5:18 PM EST up reply actions
Had he tried to eat a U-boat, I think it would have gotten him, too
by APV on Mar 10, 2010 5:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I think you underestimate the grit of this man.
I’m not emotional about iPad...
by JimmyAB on Mar 10, 2010 5:21 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Doesn’t he realize that hot dogs are dangerous?
"...maybe this year, there's no gorilla" - YoDaddyWags
by woodsmeister on Mar 10, 2010 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
He was warming up right in front of me. Thought he looked familiar
by AONO on Mar 10, 2010 5:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Lonnie Chisenhall has been everywhere I have looked.
by AONO on Mar 10, 2010 5:10 PM EST via mobile reply actions
stop staring at Chisenhall…he’s going to get the wrong idea.
by ShawnK on Mar 10, 2010 5:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
or the right idea…
I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.
by notthatnoise on Mar 10, 2010 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
Did you catch the Asdroppleganger double off the wall earlier?
I’m not emotional about iPad...
by JimmyAB on Mar 10, 2010 5:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
About two dozen at the practice fields this morning, and still no foul ball
by AONO on Mar 10, 2010 5:39 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nice to see Judy and Putnam come in and get outs.
Putnam just needs to use the nickname “Punch”, and they’ll be the best bullpen combo ever.
by mcrose on Mar 10, 2010 7:33 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
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