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Trying to better learn the minor leagues and have been ranking each teams prospects. This is my Indians one. Trying to see where i messed up basically

6 months ago Tiny Doug Pederson MVP 120 comments 0 recs  | 

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Not really sure about why Berger and Brach are here… but I’ll wait for those more knowledgeable about these to chime in properly.

Welcome back, Sandy! ATALECG...

by USSChoo on Mar 12, 2010 11:25 PM EST reply actions  

Prospect List Fail… Don’t play favorites

by JK in CBus on Mar 12, 2010 11:25 PM EST reply actions  

Yea

Thanks for reading I guess

by Doug Pederson MVP on Mar 13, 2010 1:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Philadelphia bias. Three of top ten prospects are from the Phillies’ system.

by odradek on Mar 12, 2010 11:27 PM EST reply actions  

Yea

Fully admitt i was biased but only in ranking Knapp so high. And the reason for that was because I was raving about Knapp at the start of 2009 so its kind of hard not to get excited about the guy. Also as i stated he was injured and the Indians still wanted him. When was the last time you can remember a team was willing to take an injured prospect in a trade for a former Cy Young Winner.

I got a lot of shit for putting Marson in there but hes a solid big league catcher ive seen him play but I just dont know if, with Santana in their system he will get the oppertunity (and by oppertunity i mean more then two months to get acclamated to big league pitchers)

Carrasco was the only one honestly one the list I would say maybe shouldnt have been on here cause hes damaged goods I think but hes still young and has a lot on his resume already at his age.

Thanks for reading it

by Doug Pederson MVP on Mar 13, 2010 1:30 AM EST up reply actions  

Try it without thinking about batting average or pitcher wins. Also – compare Hector Rondon and Eric Berger, understanding that every else, professional or not, has Rondon ranked significantly higher.

by dgcambridge on Mar 13, 2010 12:20 AM EST reply actions  

Its kinda hard

When i came into this not knowing anyone and didnt look at anyone else’s list. Because if I looked at Baseball America’s list why wouldnt I just copy theres’

Worst thing I did was waste 10 mins of your time Thanks for reading it though

by Doug Pederson MVP on Mar 13, 2010 1:26 AM EST up reply actions  

I wasn’t offended. I don’t want you to copy their list. I’m saying that it’s pretty much impossible to compare the records of Rondon and Berger, and not put Berger well behind Rondon. Not because of BA, but because of their numbers. If you have some scouting observation, fine, but it looks like you’re just going off their numbers, and I think you’re incorrect.

So I say, look at those two, and rethink your process. If you disagree, you should explain why.

by dgcambridge on Mar 13, 2010 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

You did a nice job of not plagiarizing anyone else’s top 10.

... Paul Hoynes is a really great guy ...

by westbrook on Mar 13, 2010 12:32 AM EST reply actions  

o my god

Someone who found something positive about it

by Doug Pederson MVP on Mar 13, 2010 1:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for your effort on this. It may not mesh with other lists, but I, for one, appreciate your insights. It’s especially nice to hear someone very high on Marson, who has probably been pretty badly underrated up to this point.

by jdudas on Mar 13, 2010 8:19 AM EST reply actions  

The problem with your list is the lack of scouting reports. You solely rely on statistics to grade a farm system, and that’s generally not the way to go. On top of that, you only use the traditional stats which don’t tell the whole story.

It’s a nice try, but I’d read up on the more advanced metrics out there and you should never disregard scouting reports when it comes to ranking/evaluating prospects. Combine those reports with the more revealing stats and you have a better foundation to work with.

by JP_Frost on Mar 13, 2010 8:51 AM EST reply actions  

I don’t really know why you would highlight Eric Berger’s “eye-popping” numbers and yet not have Hector Rondon on your top 10

by APV on Mar 13, 2010 8:52 AM EST reply actions  

While everything being said is true, I imagine it’s pretty hard to go too far into another team’s farm system without just skimming off a professional’s list. Improve your methodology and you’ll fine-tune the order much better.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Mar 13, 2010 9:04 AM EST reply actions  

I think that everything you write is perfect. I don’t see why everyone must be so harsh.

by steve koobs on Mar 13, 2010 10:28 AM EST reply actions  

Re: this guy

Considering we usually see an influx of dumb newbies on opening day, we should probably tidy the place up in advance, no?

by supermarioelia on Mar 13, 2010 11:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Spring Training Cleaning!

Welcome back, Sandy! ATALECG...

by USSChoo on Mar 13, 2010 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanx for your post. There sure are allot of ‘top ten profiles’ circulating these daze and anytime an outside source presents one, it’s a treat to read. This site is truly an “Indian site” and we take all things Indian seriously. I’d disagree with a number of your assessments but appreciate your time and effort. After all, we’re here for the entertainment.

by larzko on Mar 13, 2010 11:03 AM EST reply actions  

it seems like you had two decks of cards. 1-10 and 11-20. and you got ready to play a game and shuffled them once. every other guy looks about in the right place and it seems like a few guys are missing.

by Brick. on Mar 13, 2010 11:07 AM EST reply actions  

Not a monumental waste of time for me, since I enjoyed reading your response.

by YoDaddyWags on Mar 13, 2010 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

You liked Meloan, sucker!

by APV on Mar 13, 2010 12:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Guilty here too.

I could really use an oscillation overthruster

by stuart dean on Mar 13, 2010 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

And yet he wasn’t prized by scouts. It’s as if other people had access to information beyond his baseball cube profile.

by afh4 on Mar 13, 2010 12:28 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

It’s called firstinning.com

by APV on Mar 13, 2010 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

When I was in 5th grade, I typed out the Browns draft and handed it to friends. I was aghast when one declined my gift saying that he could just as well read it in the paper.

I could really use an oscillation overthruster

by stuart dean on Mar 13, 2010 12:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Eloquent. Maybe we’re just fortunate to have had Chuck around to remind us that so much of our analysis is just wish-fulfillment exercise.

All of which misses the real point, though: Who in the unholy hell is Brett Brach?

by fleerdon on Mar 13, 2010 1:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Where IS Chuck?

Welcome back, Sandy! ATALECG...

by USSChoo on Mar 13, 2010 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Skimming again, I meant to point out, I’m very intrigued by Andrew’s ideas about the irrelevance of top-whatever lists. I think most of us, and myself especially, would be better off not even knowing these guys exist til they’ve had a healthy, good, age-appropriate season at AA.

by fleerdon on Mar 13, 2010 7:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree and disagree. If you remember my intro piece to the prospects section of last year’s Annual, I talk about how following the minors gives you a better appreciation and a better sense of the organization as a whole. I think it makes watching Cleveland more entertaining when you have some sense of what is going on in Columbus, Akron, Kinston, and elsewhere. That said, I think it does make sense to not even consider guys below Kinston in any thoughts or plans for the big league club. They are fun to follow in their own right, but penciling a just drafted guy in a short-season league to a future big league roster is dumb. Thinking about the timeline and paths Lonnie Chisenhall might take to Cleveland at this point, not dumb.

by APV on Mar 14, 2010 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions  

Really enjoyed both that piece, and your 2010 series. I think the problem, as ever, is people using the lists for things the lists weren’t designed for. Comparing systems or gauging a trade by a BA-style top ten list is akin to buying one car over another solely because it has more horsepower. But that’s why people make these lists. It raises some questions. First, you ask, why a top ten list — what if a team has fewer than ten MLB-viable prospects? What if it has more? It’s completely arbitrary. And then, you ask, why a list? That was kind of the point of my fake-BA top ten post from a few months ago. What value does this really have anymore?

by fleerdon on Mar 14, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

You know, publications should probably follow that advice: list as few or as many legit prospects as organizations have.

I mean, people might not agree the order of our 20 prospects, but they all know we have 20 prospects right.

by Gradyforpresident on Mar 14, 2010 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Oddly prophetic?

Carlos Santana
[…]
Best Case/Worst Case: Victor Martinez/Mike Redmond(?)

by Voltaire on Mar 13, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

For the record, Hyundai is underutilizing India.

Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile

by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Mar 13, 2010 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Can we just not talk about India for a few months?

Welcome back, Sandy! ATALECG...

by USSChoo on Mar 13, 2010 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Touche.

Welcome back, Sandy! ATALECG...

by USSChoo on Mar 13, 2010 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Weird thing: I’m at SXSW in Austin. Woman who writes as @BettyDraper on Twittter at some point in time taught a creative writing class at the university level. Lady Gaga (pre-Gaga days) was in her class.

Lady Gaga was just ‘hired’ by Polaroid as a creative director.

STBNL

by emd2k3 on Mar 14, 2010 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, story of LG aside, enjoy SXSW.

Welcome back, Sandy! ATALECG...

by USSChoo on Mar 14, 2010 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

LGT: Lady Gaga Tribe?

by YoDaddyWags on Mar 14, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Please no?

Welcome back, Sandy! ATALECG...

by USSChoo on Mar 14, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think I’ll just start up an internet dispute resolution service that consists purely of arbitrarily drawn, unsupported conclusions.

Eric Berger is a legit 10-20 guy in the Indians’ system.
Slavery was, in fact, the primary cause of the American Civil War.
The iPad has many practical applications.
Darkness on the Edge of Town is a stronger album than Born to Run.
Deckard wasn’t a Replicant.

by fleerdon on Mar 13, 2010 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Trying to steal my gig?

by Jay on Mar 13, 2010 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Tyler is trying to steal Jay’s gig.

by fleerdon on Mar 13, 2010 4:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Deckard wasn’t a Replicant.

Wait, where is this being talked about? and how do I get there?

by hans on Mar 13, 2010 5:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Blade Runner … get the directors cut, not the cheap imitation theatrical release.

by talonk on Mar 17, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

But Sean Young was soooooooooooooo hot then.

by MickS on Mar 14, 2010 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is it possible that we’re old fogies — even you, Andrew?

That the new generation thinks nothing of making a Bleacher Report?

And thinks nothing of posting a link to it on the most hallowed grounds of Indians fanalysis — shudder — a FanShot on LetsGoTribe?

As I’ve observed before once or twice, the rocky landing a lot of n00bs have here isn’t because they’re morons, but because they’re unaccustomed to the idea that a website might have standards for content — any standards at all.

The Bullpen Banter guys had the temerity to start their own blog and spam-promote it on half the SBN baseball sites (most of whom deleted their post, by the way). Koobs launches a new site and calls it “the best blog in the world.” All this guy did was post something on Bleacher Report — or is there no difference? Is starting a Bleacher Report blog just as presumptuous as starting a Wordpress blog, or setting up your own hosting with a Joomla template?

Gee, it’s just so hard to tell!

Obviously I’m in sympathy with your basic idea. I myself ventured into the prospect-ranking game four years ago, but even then, I didn’t feel it was worth posting my own ranking unless I was bringing something new to the table — which, in my own small way, I think that I did. I would not have posted a generic “top prospects” list even in 2006, let alone in 2010. Indeed, I have never posted such a list, although I did commission Adam to make one for the Annual last year. Even for that publication, however, we attempted to be comprehensive while also bringing a few new tricks to the party.

So obviously, there is a group of us that takes “publishing” seriously. We do not publish just to show that we are learning. We publish once we think we’ve already learned quite a bit more than most.

The question I raise now is, is this just a generational difference? Is this guy essentially just tweeting a prospect list, or updating his Facebook status with one? Is there anything wrong with it?

Should we in fact have standards for self-promotion of content in a FanShot, where so far we have been quite lenient? Maybe it’s time for the mods to start defining a distinction there. Probably something we’ll discuss privately, but I’d be curious to see what others think.

by Jay on Mar 13, 2010 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that if one of us who has been around a while wanted to find out if we were good enough to take our insights out into the wild (read: not LGT or some other message board) and then linked to one of these such posts once in a while, nobody would have a problem with it.

Putting a link in our signatures might be comparable to this.

However, when a guy shows up and in his first 50 posts (nonetheless his first one) does that very thing, naturally it isn’t going to be well-respected.

I thought we already had the first-post/fanpost/fanshot rule. Maybe that is enough… in theory it should have prevented this post.

... Paul Hoynes is a really great guy ...

by westbrook on Mar 13, 2010 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

But we have allowed people to show up and do a one-time FanShot to promote something like a new web site.

by Jay on Mar 13, 2010 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought there was a no (blatant) site-pimping rule.

STBNL

by emd2k3 on Mar 14, 2010 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

We probably should clarify that. It was devised before there was such a thing as a FanShot.

by Jay on Mar 15, 2010 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I dunno, there are a few gems, such as when we found ourselves floating Grady in exchange for the entire AA Midlands Rockhounds franchise. Streaking in general isn’t commendable behavior, but that doesn’t mean it won’t pep things up a bit.

by fleerdon on Mar 13, 2010 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Disagree with the premise. Jerks do not make the world more interesting. My brother is a perfect example of this.

by Jay on Mar 13, 2010 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Is there anything wrong with it? I actually just wrote a couple paragraphs saying “yes” before I realized I didn’t agree with them.

Writing anything even moderately insightful about baseball is ungodly time-consuming and there’s hardly any money in it even for the people who make their livings that way. Almost everybody realizes that eventually, in much the same way that my friends and I found out in college that our respective ceiling as musicians was “polite applause at open-mic night.”

So when young men (“…always young men, looking for deleted Smiths singles and original — not re-released on vinyl — Frank Zappa albums”) stop in and audition their self-inserting baseball fan fictions (which, despite your protests, MVP, is what you’re doing here) … well, I guess I figure life will dash their expectations soon enough. As long as they’re not too thin-skinned about the feedback, where’s the harm? Is the LGT peanut gallery’s endorsement so valuable that we need to erect a few more barriers to getting it? Do we have so many engaging things to say that the occasional plug will obstruct our view of our own brilliance?

by fleerdon on Mar 13, 2010 6:33 PM EST up reply actions  

But what about the children!

by Jay on Mar 13, 2010 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

looking for deleted Smiths singles and original — not re-released on vinyl — Frank Zappa albums

OT request ….. if anyone is in the Chicago area, I am looking for the first Styx album on the original Wooden Nickel label. If anyone knows of where I can locate one, please contact me. Thanks!!!

by talonk on Mar 17, 2010 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

I am not a mod, but I don’t mind when something ridiculous is posted. I skip what I don’t want to read and find entertainment at times when some of this stuff comes around because of the reaction it gets. It might get stale if we didn’t have opportunities for some witty comments.

by Roger Dorn on Mar 13, 2010 7:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Should we in fact have standards for self-promotion of content in a FanShot, where so far we have been quite lenient? Maybe it’s time for the mods to start defining a distinction there. Probably something we’ll discuss privately, but I’d be curious to see what others think.

It falls within the “blatant site pimping” clause, though for the most part we’ve let most anything baseball-related stay up. Speaking for myself, I really dislike deleting something that is least tangentially related to baseball, however inane I think it is. And I’m not passing judgment on this post, either. Just saying that I am leaning towards using more editorial judgment in the future.

by Ryan on Mar 13, 2010 10:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Are we really not allowed to post something for the sake of discussion? to use this fanshot as an example, does every prospects list have to teach us something new, or is it ok for it to simply be here to spark discussion, as something to talk about during spring training?

I tend to be a bit more generous and so I’ll assume that all of the fanalyst scouterrazzi think they’re adding something to a larger discourse or discussion and I’ll also point out that, unequivocally, they are not.
You really don’t think it could be that they just wanted to share their opinion, and see what we though? Every post doesn’t have to “add something,” it could simply be to spark a debate.

I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.

by notthatnoise on Mar 14, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is and has been no editing on this site because of content that abides by the Ground Rules. There is no editorial control over whether something can appear on this site based on the quality of prose. What Jay is talking about is whether some of the content being posted here should be moderated based on Ground Rule #7.

by Ryan on Mar 15, 2010 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Does it really mean anything if Doug thinks Lou Marson is being underrated? Should it make us feel more assured about his future?

Absolutely the thought that went through my head when I read jdudas’s reply above. If I made one of these lists and put Carrasco, Pino and Rondon 1-2-3, all with ETAs of May 2010, will readers think “ALCS HERE WE COME, BABY!!”? Because if they will, maybe I should write it on behalf of the Cleveland Indians so that the stadium can fill up on a daily basis, and we can then spend that money trading two of the three to Seattle for CP Lee.

Also! Would you mind if this post became a regular of

boxes like this

whenever we have some guy come along who thinks he’s a talent evaluator?

... Paul Hoynes is a really great guy ...

by westbrook on Mar 13, 2010 1:04 PM EST reply actions  

dude

I just did this to better learn the minors. I dont think my list is dead accurate thats why I posted it on here to find out from Cleveland fans who i missed. Obviously from all accounts I slotted some way too high and missed others completly.

And the Doug Pederson thing is obviously a joke.

by Doug Pederson MVP on Mar 13, 2010 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow, your amateur baseball analysis goals are unfathomably modest. I got into this for the bling and the bimbos and the Italian sports cars.

by fleerdon on Mar 13, 2010 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Lucky for you the Italians are beginning to utilize India.

by YoDaddyWags on Mar 13, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

My post isn’t really directed specifically at you. You’re just the current example. And I made that text a link because you were referred to above as “Doug”.

... Paul Hoynes is a really great guy ...

by westbrook on Mar 13, 2010 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

If you want to learn the systems, can’t you just read BP? Or BA? Or Law? Why try to do it yourself and end up with something as absurd as Eric Berger in a top 10?

by afh4 on Mar 13, 2010 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

With respect, Andrew, why not? What is to be lost if Doug wants to pass his time this way? He’s got exceedingly modest goals and to the extent that others have engaged his effort (irrespective of its merits in relation to the lists of more authoritative sources) then it has been useful.

by jdudas on Mar 13, 2010 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

If we stipulate that you’re right and afh4 and westbrook are wrong — our guest’s intentions are earnest … then it seems to me that if you wanted to rank prospects purely as an academic exercise, to enrich your baseball acumen, you’d make your list, compare it to the established sources, and try to suss out the differences; e.g., “Why am I the only guy in the known universe who knows Brett Brach’s name?” (No offense, Brett.) If he’d done THAT, and then came along and tried to defend his choices in context, this post might get some traction. But doing somebody else’s homework for them is not a valuable learning experience.

by fleerdon on Mar 13, 2010 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, that’s what I was thinking. The post on the other side of the page is written with more of an attitude of “Hey, we’re experts at this, and here is our list.” This guy said he wanted to learn the systems, but he did seem pretty offended when we started correcting him. There’s still a lot of fun and learning in these discussions. Not that I would mind a bit if the mods blocked this kinds of posts. But if they don’t, I’ll still comment from time to time.

by dgcambridge on Mar 13, 2010 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not buying that. If this was the case than why so sensitive to the less than glowing initial reviews?

I could really use an oscillation overthruster

by stuart dean on Mar 13, 2010 6:34 PM EST up reply actions  

how would you feel if you thought you worked hard on something, then presented it to people, and the initial reaction was essentially “hey! check out how dumb this guy is!”

I hate the steelers the way a mother loves a child.

by notthatnoise on Mar 14, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would feel that maybe I need to smarten up before I post again.

by Jay on Mar 14, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Just to clear things up

I in no way think in bill James or found something that Indians fans dsnt already know. if I thought this list was 100% correct I wouldn’t have posted it asking who I missed

I do these for two reasons 1) is because I love Baseball and just want to know who’s the up
and comming guys and 2) Because it’s a hell of a lot more fun then doing a 6 page page paper on Diversity in our generation or
the effects of Florida in city water pipes

Suprising to most I didn’t just put a bunch of names into hats I actually did do sone research on the matter. Yes I missed some
guys and yes I slotted guys too high or
too some slotted guys on a list they didn’t belong.

If I wasted your time I appologize but I came into this list knowing four Indians prospects and came away knowing a lot more. so while some of you criticize me just for doing the list I, in a way, accomlished my goal of better understanding another teams system

thanks all for reading even if you thought it was awful (which appear to be most)

by Doug Pederson MVP on Mar 13, 2010 1:53 PM EST via mobile reply actions   1 recs

Think of it like this – if everyone here would have just said “Oh, I think you missed so and so but good attempt” you’d simply go back to your method of creating the list and slightly tweak it to amend in what we think. But then again, it doesn’t mean much. I think if you want learn more about ours our anyone other system, then the best route is not to be doing this exercise but to instead read the popular and meaningful lists that already exist along with a lot of the articles that are already out there. This will allow you to understand who they are and why they are picked/rated. That will do a lot more for you that creating such a list. So we may come off harsh, but it really seems to be in your better interest.

Welcome back, Sandy! ATALECG...

by USSChoo on Mar 13, 2010 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

You know what, Doug? You’re right. Baseball is for fun. And if you had fun doing this, that’s what matters. Now I’ve got to go deal with Florida in the water pipes. Again.

by YoDaddyWags on Mar 13, 2010 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree. Look, no one here is changing the world. We’re here for no other reason than to pass time doing something that we enjoy: obsessively following the Cleveland Indians baseball club. Doug’s list was fun for him, and it was fun for me to engage.

Of course his list doesn’t matter, either in a larger cosmic sense or in a much smaller (and still pretty meaningless) baseball sense. Nor does my gut sense that Lou Marson might be a bit underrated matter in either of these senses.

In any event, this is a strange discussion (what’s the point of fan analysis?) on a site entirely dedicated to exactly that.

by jdudas on Mar 13, 2010 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the purpose of fan analysis is to provide a viewpoint that is otherwise absent from the marketplace and that can be argued is inherently valuable. Whether that’s Jay clearly being the most knowledgeable person outside of the Indians’ FO when it comes to the Indians and their dealings with contract issues or Paul providing well-rounded, meaningful analysis of the Indians’ team composition. This is as opposed to just, oh, making up imaginary prospect rankings. I mean this is literally made-up and not in a “ha ha” way but in a way that poses as genuine analysis.

by afh4 on Mar 13, 2010 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough, but I suppose that this just doesn’t bother me at all. If I really want to know something about the Indians, I’m going to read Jay, Paul, Tony Lastoria, you, etc. Doug is just some dude on the internets. He isn’t claiming to be otherwise. I’m fine with that.

by jdudas on Mar 13, 2010 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Doug is much less controversial on the other team sites. Not a lot of activity in August in D.C., I notice.

by YoDaddyWags on Mar 13, 2010 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea

I deffinitly have gotten the most response from
this one. no one cared about the Nats one

by Doug Pederson MVP on Mar 13, 2010 3:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

And if you think LGT is tough, wait’ll you do your top ten Seattle prospects.

by YoDaddyWags on Mar 13, 2010 3:20 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You raise a lot of good points and this points to a lot of the chafing between the MSM and the blogosphere. I think Westbrook’s post below is worth considering and I think the association with Bleacher Report matters. Bleacher Report has a placement deal with major search engines and so this list is probably going to end up being eyeballed by some people who want legitimate information and that, to me, is a shame. Even if it wasn’t on Bleacher Report all that’s happening here is the creation of noise to signal, which, again, I think sucks. At some point, somebody from MLB Trade Rumors or Swerbs or whatever is probably going to point to this article as a reference and end up perpetuating viewpoints that do nothing but feed the Cle.Com faithful by perpetuating misinformation.

I don’t know what the solution is here and I don’t question anybody’s right to write something like this. I just wonder, how do we denote this list as nonsense when comparing it to other, more legitimate blog-based sources?

by afh4 on Mar 13, 2010 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

People will have to decipher for themselves what is useful and what is fabrication.

by Roger Dorn on Mar 13, 2010 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I think my problem with this boils down to:

• Joined Let’s Go Tribe! – 03/11/10 8:33 PM EST
• Posted Indians Top 10 Prospects (From a Phillies fan) on Let’s Go Tribe! – 03/12/10 11:00 PM EST
• Could have put his top 10 in the bullpen banter thread but he started with a fanshot.
• Wanted to draw traffic to his piece on bleacher report
• If it was truly for fun, I don’t know if the last bullet point makes sense
• It’s bleacher report… the home of the kind of no-value stuff that could be posted more modestly elsewhere.

... Paul Hoynes is a really great guy ...

by westbrook on Mar 13, 2010 2:37 PM EST reply actions  

Im

Awfully sorry for offending you by having the audacity to come on here and try and recurve feedback regarding something I wrote on your team.

At least I’ve kept you entertained as you play god on this site. Chill out dude and stop trying to get in my head and get down to the root of this.It’s not the Da Vincci Code it’s not
that complicated.

I wrote something. Wanted feedback posted it on here and obviously just ruined ur day. It’s a prospect list that ur treat ing like I spanned ur site.

by Doug Pederson MVP on Mar 13, 2010 3:11 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Don’t take everything you read on here so personally. You came here and posted something and left yourself open for critique. If you have issues with being critiqued, I suggest you avoid posting fanshots on this site and asking for feedback.

by Roger Dorn on Mar 13, 2010 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

When

Did I ever get mad or upset at someone critiquing the piece. I didn’t get pissed until this guy starts trying to find the root of why I did this when I already explained why I did. after hearing the feedback
I understand I failed at the list so I had no problems with the feedback just problems with people taking the list too seriously.

by Doug Pederson MVP on Mar 13, 2010 3:23 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Disagree. You were very offended from criticism one and almost seemed to create a “looking for feedback” cover story in response. You haven’t ruined anybody’s day here – it would take a much more serious offense to come close.

I could really use an oscillation overthruster

by stuart dean on Mar 13, 2010 6:40 PM EST up reply actions  

In fairness …

Trying to see where i messed up basically

by Jay on Mar 13, 2010 7:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Good point

I could really use an oscillation overthruster

by stuart dean on Mar 14, 2010 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

yea

I never took offense to guys alerting me on guys I missed. You may think I did but I came on here to find out from Indians fans on who I missed.

When questioned on why a guy was slotted where he was I explained myself but never once was i offended by a guy saying “Where’s Hector Rondon”

And I do these just for fun. I like to make my list and then take a look at Baseball America’s list and just see how mine compare but I also want feedback from the people that watch the team everyday

There is no underlying reason for this. Im not getting paid, and as my “profile” on the bleacher report explains I dont expect phonecalls from ESPN any time soon. If MLBTR are quoting me they have gotten desperate.

I post these because its just a good way to guage on how accurate the lists are in the eyes of the fans.

by Doug Pederson MVP on Mar 14, 2010 4:22 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah, i’m not reading all this.

by Brick. on Mar 13, 2010 4:05 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

it’s classic LGT metadiscourse. what’s not to love?

If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.

by Cap'n Snegiryov on Mar 13, 2010 10:47 PM EST up reply actions  

You know what’s missing? A discussion about beer.

Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile

by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Mar 14, 2010 3:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Or ketchup on hot dogs…

I could really use an oscillation overthruster

by stuart dean on Mar 14, 2010 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

seriously people, brats.

and this isn’t some elitist above the common man hot dog thing. they’re just better.

by Gradyforpresident on Mar 14, 2010 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’ll allow it.

Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile

by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Mar 14, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or a Top-5 Moments in Korean Sports History list, from SeoulSoxFan on Sons of Sam Horn:
1. Korea scores the “golden goal” to beat Italy 2-1 in World Cup quarterfinals
This was the peak of Korean football fever, with literally millions of Koreans flooding the streets in “red devil” t-shirts. I was working in Korea at the time, and I still have not seen any other spectacle come close to this. As a footnote, Italy accuses Korea of bribing the referee, then kicks out Ahn (who headed in the winning goal) out of its Serie-A league shortly after Cup, in one of the all-time douche move. Bloggers were seriously suggesting boycotting all Italian food, i.e., pizza and spaghetti.
2. Hong Soo-whan comes back to KO the reigning champion Hector Carrasquilla after 4 knock-downs in 1977
I could not talk for 3 days after screaming for joy. Still one of the greatest boxing come back wins ever IMHO. And this was an away match for Hong. Back when Korea was still a developing country, boxing was pretty much the only sport where a Korean can be a world champ.
3. Korea beats Japan in baseball (not in WBC, but in the “Super Series” circa 1982)
Before the WBC rivarly, there was the “Super Series” that pitted Korea against Japan. Famous for the “frog” suicide bunt that brings home the tying run, followed by the come-from-behind 3-run HR for the win. This was the inaugural year for Korean pro baseball, and the entire country partied for days after the win.
4. Park Ji-sung score first goal for Manchester United
Park “Three-Lung” Ji-sung becomes the first Korean to play for a premier league team (Man U no less) then finally scores the first goal ever for an Asian-born player in the Premier league.
5. Park Tae-whan wins first ever Olympic gold in swimming in 2008

by YoDaddyWags on Mar 14, 2010 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

6. Shin-Soo Choo wins world series MVP for 2011 Indians.

... Paul Hoynes is a really great guy ...

by westbrook on Mar 14, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe by laying down three frog suicide bunts in Game Seven.

by YoDaddyWags on Mar 14, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would have guessed that Korean figure skater makes the list.

by Roger Dorn on Mar 14, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

This list is from early last year. But the first Korean Olympic gold pops up here at #5. Does Queen Yu-Na bump Park Tae-whan, or does she go higher?

by YoDaddyWags on Mar 14, 2010 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hard for me to evaluate, but the way they crafted the storyline on NBC, you would think it was the most important sporting event in S. Korea’s history.

by Roger Dorn on Mar 14, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

She’s huge, I mean huge, over there

by Gradyforpresident on Mar 14, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Especially sweet for Korea: the runner-up was Mao Asada of arch-rival Japan.

by YoDaddyWags on Mar 14, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, that was horrible. This must provide Koreans with better memories.

by YoDaddyWags on Mar 14, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also the name of a great Sun Kil Moon/Mark Kozelek song. He loves his boxers.

Welcome back, Sandy! ATALECG...

by USSChoo on Mar 14, 2010 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

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