Game Six: Tigers 9, Indians 8
by xrickx on Apr 11, 2010 5:12 PM EDT
in Game Recaps
Email
Print
2010 is a new year. In four 2009 starts against Cleveland, Justin Verlander gave up THREE runs in 30 innings. Today, the Indians scored five runs off Verlander—all earned—in the first inning. The Detroit pen later allowed a sixth run to score on Verlander’s tab. That would not be enough.
New years sometimes look like old ones. Jake Westbrook continued the string of passable but inefficient starting pitching performances by Tribe hurlers. He labored through 5 and 2/3 innings and battled some BB and HBP hiccups, but had an uncharacteristic seven strikeouts to keep the Tribe’s lead in tact. His inability to work deep into the game meant the bullpen would be called upon to protect a 7-3 Tribe lead. The bullpen, however, reached into its familiar bag of tricks.
Manny Acta was forced to use his relievers, but his choices were sometimes curious (letting Westbrook face Magglio a fourth time before calling on Jensen Lewis to face Miguel Cabrera; Laffey for one batter; Joe Smith getting the quick hook in favor of Rafael Perez despite three of the next four batters being right handed) and most times ineffective. The pen walked seven batters in three innings, with Chris Perez contributing four of his own in between getting three outs in a failed four-out save opportunity. After Perez walked in the tying run, Lou Marson allowed his second passed ball of the game, and the Tigers scored the winning run.
The Indians and Rangers open Progressive Field tomorrow, Monday, at 3:05PM EST. The Indians need innings from their starters, and Fausto Carmona, the object of the eternally hopeful, takes a second shot at 2010. Presumably, Mike Redmond will be doing the catching — no passed balls are expected.
143 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Didn’t watch this, so I don’t know what’s going on with Marson. This looks to me like a classic bullpen implosion. 93 pitches in 3 IP. 9h, 6bb, 0k .652 obp. Couldn’t get outs. They hit everything.
by jhon on Apr 11, 2010 5:29 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I left the house with us up 8-6 and CP coming in. I’m actually glad I didn’t watch the finish. But it does appear that this game should never have gotten to a save situation in the first place. Ugh.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Apr 11, 2010 5:41 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah. That kind sums it up. For me Marson needs to go down and work on things. The FO “says” Santana is not ready behind the plate, but I really cant imagine him being worse than Marson right now. Plus his bat have been bad; although he works the count pretty well. That being said I see no reason not to atleast give Wyatt a chance to catch everyday. I would prefer Santana, but I understand all of the issues with that move.
Some bright spots from today.
1. Valgood hitting with some pop.
2. Our shortstop is awesome
3. Choo finally looked good at the plate
Lastly, I know this might sound weird, but I would trade Johnny as soon as possible. I am not sure we will get more for him as the season goes along. He is a .260 hitter with decent pop that is a liability in the field. I am certain Andy Marte can do all of that and play a better 3B and produce the same offensive numbers.
Nobody needs a 3B yet. It’d be foolish and nearly impossible to trade Peralta now. Marson’s offense is not going to be his problem. As for Marson, the Indians can live with a half-season of a powerless catcher who gets on-base. They cannot live with a catcher who cannot catch.
by xrickx on Apr 11, 2010 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
i’m not so sure marson can even get on base. his walk numbers were fine in the minors, yeah, but pitchers at the major league level are going to challenge a punchless catcher.
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Apr 11, 2010 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
marson really makes me really appreciate how underrated vic was as a defensive catcher.
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Apr 11, 2010 6:23 PM EDT reply actions
also, how awesome is santana?
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Apr 11, 2010 6:32 PM EDT reply actions
Uh, no, I was thinking about the fact that he apparently actually catches the ball.
Everybody should get ice cream every day.
Key word: apparently. If we are going to go by what scouts say for Santana, we should do the same for Marson, who has always been said to play good defense.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
45 PB in 273 games for Santana. Hmm…
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 12, 2010 5:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I actually have no idea what the scouts say; I was making a little one-line throw away joke that you misconstrued as the beginning of a well-reasoned argument. It was not. For all I know, these were the final two defensive miscues that Marson will ever perpetrate and Santana is a complete butcher. I’ll go eat a dozen ten-cent hot dogs tonight and tell you what I see from young Carlos.
Everybody should get ice cream every day.
How many times have I seen that same fangraph? It’s time they recalibrate the thing.
by jhon on Apr 11, 2010 6:33 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Why did we trade for a catcher who can’t catch? It’s obvious that this is a huge hole in Marson’s game and it seems highly improbable to me that he suddenly developed an inability to block pitches in the dirt.
In short, I feel like this is something the front office should have caught before trading for him.
I get how it’s fun to blame Marson — and, yeah, let me cut you off right here, “that ball needed to be caught,” yadda yadda — but I don’t think wild pitch was an inappropriate scoring. It was baby-punchingly awful.
And here’s another unpopular sentiment, while I’m trucking: We were losing this game anyway. There wasn’t anybody up in the pen, and there wasn’t anybody to GET up in the pen, and Perez couldn’t come up with a strike at a European trainworkers convention.
by fleerdon on Apr 11, 2010 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I know, this is the thing everybody complains about right after a tough loss. And, you’re 100% right about Perez. But I was having this thought on Opening Night but I wasn’t near the game thread and I wanted to get it out there.
So, without exaggeration or emotion, doesn’t it seem like Marson has a lot of trouble with balls in the dirt? And isn’t it also true that we have a rotation of mostly sinkerballers? Finally, isn’t stopping a ball in the dirt something you either do or don’t do? My point being, it’ts not like a cold streak at the plate where you can say, “Give him a month, let him settle in” I mean, close your legs.
Still too much?
My point being, it’s not like a cold streak at the plate where you can say, "Give him a month, let him settle in" I mean, close your legs.
I either disagree or don’t know enough to agree. I’ve had enough bad weeks in my life to see how this could be one of them for Lou. I find it hard to believe that Marson could have the career he’s had if the deficiency were as glaring as it looks to us tonight.
I also tend to think Marson’s set up to be the recipient of ill-will — part of the much-bemoaned return for Cliff, the immediate replacement for Victor, a pretty un-sexy skill-set, place-holding for god-like Carlos who’s only not on the team because we’re not winning this year and no matter how many times you have to tell yourself we’re not winning this year it still sucks to watch it unfold in front of you when that means your team won’t risk eight figures of arbitration eligibility on its stud prospect because that would be stupid run-on sentence.
by fleerdon on Apr 11, 2010 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t remember Josh Bard ever getting much ill will, possibly because he performed better than this.
I agree that Marson is just having a bad week. It’s reminiscent of the way Marte booted a few balls badly in the first week or two of 2007. Three years later, it’s pretty clear that he’s still an above-average defender and always was. Like you said, it’s the track record.
35 PB in 472 minor league games. That could be a record either way, and I’d have no clue.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 11, 2010 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Well let’s do some math. 35/472 figure 140 games a season, that’s 10.4 a year. Looks pretty bad from here.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
I’d be worse. So there’s that.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 11, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I forgot my knuckler glove.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 12, 2010 5:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I wish I had looked those numbers up earlier. My argument would have been a lot stronger.
by NickFantana on Apr 12, 2010 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions
OK, you guys know my track record. I’ll happily eat the crow on this if he turns around and does an average to above-average job over the long haul. Color me skeptical, based on the early returns.
Also, I like Lou Marson. I like the fill-in guys because there’s always the chance that they turn into Casey Blake, and that’s what got us Santana in the first place.
Go Lou!
Then we all agree Marson should start growing a beard?
by Chief Wahoo on Apr 12, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
you’re probably right, but it’s just infuriating as all hell to watch marson right now
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Apr 11, 2010 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Marson will be fine. Good on-base skills. Torregas looks to be the better defender, but Plastic Man himself could not have caught some of those wild pitches. Marson is a big-league catcher.
Doesn’t the fact that he’s a catcher who plays in the big-leagues kind of refute your argument?
Everybody should get ice cream every day.
Doesn’t the fact that he’s a catcher who plays in the big-leagues kind of refute your argument?Unfortunately, yes.
I WIN!
Everybody should get ice cream every day.
by Joel D on Apr 12, 2010 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i’m way more angry about the dozens and dozens of other balls our pitchers threw that he did catch that led to walks, not the handful that got past him allowing the runners on from the walks to advance. but hey, al capone went to jail for tax evasion right?, so who cares if he killed anyone.
by Brick. on Apr 12, 2010 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not directly analogous when you consider the weight of the error. A pitcher walking a batter happens many times per games. Passed balls – should be around 10 per season.
A pitcher walking a batter happens many times per games.
In the case of the 2010 Cleveland Indians staff, 6.8 times a game.
Heh. I agree that the walks are what killed us, so the walks = murder, but the most important defensive position on the diamond not executing = also murder.
The walks murdered us. Lou hid the body.
by gte619n on Apr 12, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Too. Many. Walks. Pitchers look scared to throw a strike when it counts. It’s one thing for the coaches to say they want them to pound the strike zone, but the message clearly isn’t getting through.
Quality strikes come from a confidence in your defense, and in an understanding that if you get beat, you get beat, but you won’t give it away. Walks come from wanting to throw a perfect pitch and being scared to fail. Quit telling them to pound the zone, and instead figure out how to convince them to just accept imperfection and failure if that’s what happens.
No wonder we have such an inconsistent zone. Everyone wears a cup these days.
by dgcambridge on Apr 12, 2010 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay, but what if the batter is on the left side of the plate?
I'm emotional about my glove...
by JimmyAB on Apr 12, 2010 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I admire your restraint in avoiding profanity.
by VA tribe fan on Apr 12, 2010 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I was less restrained while listening to Chris Perez pitch. I was alone in the car at the time. When he walked in the run, I was driving by a fender-bender, and I am somewhat surpised the Henrico County cop didn’t pull me over for being a raving lunatic.
It probably wouldn’t actually help anything, but it would be very therapeutic to watch someone in stark raving lunatic mode give this presentation to the Indians bullpen.
by VA tribe fan on Apr 12, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
All right, everyone get those hands in! Goooooooo, acceptance of imperfection, failure, and reality! Now lets go give up 5 or 6 runs and probably lose! Wooooo!
by VA tribe fan on Apr 12, 2010 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions
hey, walks worked for feller.
dude issued 208 passes in 1938.
we might have a bullpen full of future HOFers
by citrusvanilla on Apr 11, 2010 7:02 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Will this team ever have a respectable bullpen in my lifetime? I’m only in my 40’s but I’m not optimistic.
well, as medical technology improves. . .
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Apr 11, 2010 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Kind of amazing how Shapiro seems to be on his way to fielding yet another historically bad—historically bad—bullpen. When someone says bullpens are volatile and unpredictable, they could be refuted by reference to the Indians: Always bad, never good. That’s stability.
Calm down cugino. Shapiro’s 2007 bullpen was pretty good – right up to the ALCS.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
Not really—only 2.5 good pitchers, and all 2.5 became popular pubching bags (including starring roles by Raffy P and Jensen today). It’s 2005 that’s the real City of Gold.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 11, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m leaving that one uncorrected.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 11, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Can’t let this stand.
common ≠ "come on"
by Jay on Apr 12, 2010 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Between this and the little “Jhonny can’t throw to first” debacle, we’ve already frittered away two very winnable games. In there interest of full disclosure, I only heard them both on the radio and didn’t see what happened live, but it hurts to listen to wins fly out the window.
Everybody should get ice cream every day.
It’s true that we could have a few more wins already. Listening to today’s game, though, I mostly thought about Jay’s season-opening admonition that the Tribe is going to lose a lot of games, and some of those losses will be ugly. Mark Shapiro, in front-office-speak, has said the same. Life-long Tribe fans have to be philosophical on days such as these.
What I find most hopeful about the young season is two things: first, Sizemore appears to be fully recovered and healthy, and that is awesome; second, the starting rotation is shaky, no doubt, but every starter gives reason to hope for some stability. Personally, a bullpen meltdown, even one as epic as today’s was, is not as discouraging to me as a collapsing starting rotation, which, to my mind, starts to threaten the development of the ballclub as a whole, and was my great fear about this season.
by Deep South Ken on Apr 11, 2010 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Sizemore appears to be fully recovered and healthy,
Yeah, well, just when as was reaching my mooncalf apogee I read this:
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
If you would have told me that after 6 games David Huff would have been our most efficient pitcher I probably would have punched you for being a douche.
by The Grimace on Apr 11, 2010 9:01 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
It would have been nice to rest Wood as much as possible up to the trade deadline to improve his value to other teams, but I don’t know if Chris Perez will allow that to happen. It appears the scouting report on Perez of “great stuff with control issues” is still valid.
Like Rick pointed out both here and in the game thread, Acta’s bullpen usage this game was borderline negligent.
I was thoroughly confused watching the game. Glad to see we have a consensus.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 11, 2010 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, in the article Chuck linked above, Acta talks as if he’s still experimenting with roles. Still not the way I’d have played it, though.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 11, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Sweet Lou, what did you do?!
"Spring Training wins are good for the soul."
by USSChoo on Apr 11, 2010 10:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Flag for a crappy song.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 11, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I know not of this song, just wanted to rhyme. Like the Indians, I can’t get the simple things right.
"Spring Training wins are good for the soul."
Pearl Jam outtake about Kareem. That may not even be a real lyric, I just assumed it was what you were referencing.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 12, 2010 5:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Got up at 6am to watch and stayed home to watch the end of the game rather than leave for work, only just avioded smashing my computer as I turned it off. It has been a long Monday.
One day I'll get over to watch the Tribe play
by new zealand tribe fan on Apr 12, 2010 12:51 AM EDT reply actions
Maybe it was all those games I watched in 2009, but when I got off the bike, it was 8-4 and I knew we were doomed. I ran a few miles just in time to see Perez put two guys on in the 9th and knew what came next.
The only thing worse than having to deal with that negativity is to have it validated shortly thereafter.
When Damon came to bat, I thought I was being overly negative when I said to myself, “I bet he walks him on four pitches.” I mean, it’s totally reasonable to expect him to throw a strike or two.
Nope, four pitches is all it took.
But we’ll win the next one. I hope.
After careful analysis of the tribe’s performance so far I conclude that we win all the games that we play at night. That will make us 11-11 in April and 15-13 in May.
I was more optimistic until I actually looked at the schedule.
On the ambiguously-luminous side, in just a few hours, Fausto Carmona will either get us all even more depressed, or renew our false sense of hope.
I know it seems unlikely, but do we have any definitive proof Marson wasn’t thinking about cold during the ninth inning?
Everybody should get ice cream every day.
Lou not think about cold. Lou think about bitch.
by YoDaddyWags on Apr 12, 2010 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Let's Go Tribe
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
Featured Stories
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Giancarlo Stanton busts Marlins Park scoreboard with tape-measure grand slam (VIDEO)
- Baltimore’s tradition of fans shouting ‘O!’ during national anthem sparks interleague feud
- Chris Perez follows rant against Cleveland fans with even better rant against Cleveland fans
- Pitcher Clayton Richard gets key pinch single in 13th after coming in 0 for 16
- Livan Hernandez welcomes ball boy to the bigs with shower of sunflower seeds (VIDEO)
