Game Ten: Indians 6, White Sox 2
by Ryan on Apr 16, 2010 10:04 PM EDT
in Game Recaps
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Prior to tonight's game, Mitch Talbot hadn't pitched far enough into a game to even qualify for a win as a starter. Granted, Talbot's major-league experience has been brief (14.2 innings, 2 starts before tonight), but it made tonight's complete game performance even more remarkable. Mitch breezed through nine innings, inducing 17 ground ball outs and allowing just one earned run. The earned run came on a hanger to Paul Konerko, who rifled a home run onto the home run porch through a stiff breeze. An unearned run came when Shin-Soo Choo let a routine grounder go under his glove, allowing Alexei Ramirez to score from second. That was it for the White Sox offense. Talbot made the complete game look easy; he rarely worked to get an out, and often retired the hitter within a few pitches. His fastball sat in the low 90s all night, and even in the late innings touched 94 or 95 mph, but he mixed in his other pitches very well, inducing many easy or routine outs. It was an impressive performance.
The Indians scored their six runs in two three-run innings, both catalyzed by White Sox miscues. In the fourth, Mark Buerhle walked the slumping Jhonny Peralta, and then uncorked a wild pitch, allowing Peralta to get to second. Jhonny got to third on a fly ball to right field, and scored on an Austin Kearns single. If not for the wild pitch, Peralta never gets past second base. After the Kearns single, Luis Valbuena got on top of a high high-80s fastball and drove it out of the yard. In the sixth, the Indians scored two when third baseman Mark Teahen misplayed a Lou Marson chopper, letting the ball bounce off the heel of his glove into the outfield. Asdrubal Cabrera topped things off with a double down the left field line, scoring Marson.
At the beginning of the season, it was thought that the Indians' offense would be good, but not good enough to make up for a poor starting staff. Ten games into the season, the opposite has happened; in several of their 6 losses, the starter was the one keeping the Indians in the game, but the offense didn't pull its share of the load. Now the fourth and fifth starters of that maligned staff have thrown back-to-back complete games, something that hasn't happened in 14 years. I think I need to get out of the prognostication business.
| Highest WPA | Lowest WPA | ||
| Mitch Talbot | .183 | Matt LaPorta | -.088 |
| Lou Marson | .177 | Grady Sizemore | -.068 |
| Luis Valbuena | .177 | Shin-Soo Choo | -.048 |
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Comments
Let’s give Manny Acta a little credit for knowing how to handle his bullpen.
by ken from alexandria on Apr 16, 2010 10:17 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Huzzah!
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge..." C. Darwin
by Spidey on Apr 16, 2010 10:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It hit 95? That’s awesome! Does it look like his breaking stuff will get strikeouts in the future?
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
Checking this score after a dinner; whoa. Whoa. I’ve got to watch this on replay.
by afh4 on Apr 16, 2010 10:47 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I know WTAM is in the business of convincing people that last year was Wedge’s fault and we’re going to be super-awesome (ok, maybe just pretty good) this year, so you should turn in and listen, but the post game guy suggested that no way Wedge would have let these two guys go the distance. I can’t explain how much this bothers me. Both pitchers were still under 100 pitches and rolling going into the 9th. Wedge lets them pitch.
Cant say for sure, but I wouldn’t doubt that Wedge would let them start the 9th at least, however I will point you to Scott Lewis vs Baltimore September 10 2008. 8 innings, 96 pitches. Could go either way there
"Ok everyone listen up! I've just invited Dave to suck it!"
With Lewis’s injury history, he could be an exception.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 17, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Scott Lewis doesn’t have a history, he has a religion.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 17, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
…and dance the night away.
Tomorrow, they can go visit the zoo. Or perhaps fly a kite.
--
History is made at night. Character is what you are in the dark.
by vbc3 on Apr 16, 2010 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nagy/Ogea in September of ‘96, from what Matt Underwood and AP said. Clearly, it’s because Nagy’s in the organization again.
How much of this is Tim Belcher’s influence, I wonder.
-Kyle
Unless he has Cliff Lee Pinpoint Control, hitters are going to adjust to his strike-throwing approach.
I hate Lou Marson.
This nothing in the rule books that says you hafta pitch the same way every time. Maybe if they come up lookin’ to hack on the first pitch he starts ’em off with a curve in the dirt. That could work too.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
Yeah, that is what makes or breaks guys.
And to Joe: I haven’t seen any video but the gamethread seemed (to me) to imply that there wasn’t a ton of movement.
I hate Lou Marson.
I thought he had good movement on the two-seamer.
I had only seen him once in spring training (3 scoreless). I thought his cutter was an equalizer. I didn’t recall seeing that from his ST performance, so I don’t know if that is a new pitch or what. But he caused a lot of off-center contact with it.
We’ll see. Clearly, the more confident he got the better he threw. I’m just not sure how good the White Sox offense is.
Three games out of first and with a rotation like this, we’re pretty much guaranteed the division title.
"You are an LGT success story" -- Jay
by Turkmenbashi on Apr 16, 2010 11:55 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Talbot was feeling it tonite. Finished very strong and in control of all his pitches. That’s amazing that you have to go back to ’96 and Nagy/Ogea for back to back complete games.
The first surprise of this year is the starting pitching. Jake and Fausto going up against a division rival this weekend. Competitive juices will be flowing after the 4-5 starters pitched gems.
Yeah, the lefties were pretty broken up about that GIDP.
by Logodaedalus on Apr 17, 2010 3:45 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This team might actually be .500 if Hafner or Grady could hit. Grady is really starting to concern me between rolling over on ground balls and striking out
Grady’s going to strike out a bunch. The other stuff worries me, but it’s not as if the rest of these guys are hitting the cover off the ball either. Thank goodness for our awesome rotation. And to a lesser extent, Austin Kearns.
by FredOx on Apr 17, 2010 9:44 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Some broadcaster was comparing Choo to Sizemore, and pointed out Choo was driving balls to left and left center, whereas Grady was pulling everything.
This started in 2008, as far as I can tell. It’s open for debate whether it’s an unequivocal problem, or if it’s part of his natural progression as a power hitter.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 17, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
The Indians are 2-0 since the pies returned. They need a few cases of Reddi-Whip though. Shaving cream is gross.
Also! Luis Valbuena only hits homers off all-stars.
by FredOx on Apr 17, 2010 10:05 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I’ll say this: Wedge would have had Valbuena on the bench against Buehrle.
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Apr 17, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Can we call a moratorium on the “what Wedge would have done” discussion? It’s a tedious and masturbatory exercise.
Come on, four billion!
by Joel D on Apr 17, 2010 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I get “tedious,” but masturbatory? Now, that’s not the first adjective that comes to my mind when talking about Wedge. . .
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Apr 17, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
How would Wedge have responded to that comment?
by Buckeye Brad on Apr 17, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s possible you’re mixing up cause and effect here.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Apr 17, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
I just took a glace through the (very early season) stats to date — a few interesting things:
-Of the 12 pitchers, 6 have more Ks than BBs, 4 have more BBs than Ks, and 2 have a 1:1 ratio. Masterson has the best K:BB ratio at 7:1; C. Perez has the worst at 1:5.
-Statistically speaking, JLew has been the best bullpen arm, with nearly a 2:1 K:BB ratio, and a WHIP barely above 1. It probably goes without saying that C. Perez, he of the 3.00 WHIP has statistically been the worst, though R. Perez (identical WHIP, thanks to 5 hits in 2 innings) is giving him a run for his money
-The offense is really struggling to slug. Choo has an astronomical .667 slugging percentage. That is followed by Kearns at .444 (through 18 at bats) and Valbuena at .407.
-only 3 starters have OBPs over .300 (Choo, Hafner & Laporta)
-Choo has almost as many TBs (22) as the next two players combined (Grady and AsCab, both at 12)
Mostly this was just an excuse to take a break from studying. To emphasize how early we are into the season, Sweet Lou Marson is tied for second on the team in SBs
It is pretty astounding we have won 4 games. Aside from Choo, the only person on offense who has not been a statistical nightmare is Kearns. Luis Valbuena, he of the .185 batting average (/I’m an idiot), has our third highest OPS (.698). Every one of our relievers has already allowed at least one run, and only 3 of them have more Ks than BBs. Our opening day starter hasn’t managed 10 innings in his first two starts and has an ERA over 7.
And yet we have won 4 games.
The fact of the matter is, we’ve won those games on the strength of great starting pitching. This, of course, stands to reason — the bullpen has been terrible, and our offense anemic. That doesn’t leave many possibilities for victory save for truly sparkling performances by the staff, and sometimes, as in Fausto’s last start, even that’s not enough.
This isn’t to say that I’m discouraged, really. It might be a little inconsistent to be so excited about the starters’ performances to date, while completely downplaying our offensive struggles as an anomaly that will soon right itself. But, it’s April, I’m a fan, and it gives me hope for this year and beyond, so why the heck not.
by supersizeme on Apr 17, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
oh, AND our catches have reached safely 6 times. In 10 games.
by supersizeme on Apr 17, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Boys, boys, boys – it’s only 10 goddam games! We play anything close to .500 ball in April and I’m ecstatic.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
I knew there was a reason I hate Fox. You should get a slingbox if you have a friend/relative with a spare tv in the viewing area.
Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic. - Robert S. Wieder
I take these occasional blackouts as an opportunity to just sit back and enjoy the radio broadcast. Old school.
This is actually a good way of looking at it.
by Gradyforpresident on Apr 17, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s true, it’s nice to listen to the radio broadcast every so often, but that doesn’t make Fox’s policy any less despicable.
by Logodaedalus on Apr 17, 2010 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh Fox is despicable for many other things beside blackout policies.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
I agree that it’s quite infuriating, but is it really “despicable” in the grand scheme of things? I mean, nobody’s dying, right?
I despise it, so, apparently it is. Is “despicable” really that strong? It’s not like I called it, I don’t know, “heinous”.
by Logodaedalus on Apr 18, 2010 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Gotta go sing madrigals for a reception of musicologists….
by Logodaedalus on Apr 17, 2010 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So the collective noun for musicologists is a “reception”? Like a muster of peacocks and a squabble of seagulls?
"...maybe this year, there's no gorilla" - YoDaddyWags
by woodsmeister on Apr 17, 2010 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Foreswear thee Manny, any love to ‘pen
Which cometh not near to, say, Tum’s relief;
Though thou be ogled by septuple men
Who cling to an irrational belief:
That they canst set down, very late in game,
Those who would wield their sticks against thy tribe.
Don’t ruin thy managerial name
Amongst the suffering LGT scribe.
O, change thee thy lineup, change thee thy socks,
Grow head full of hair, or e’en a Huffstache;
But surely as is said that Cleveland Rocks,
Or that Erie’s waves o’er breakfronts crash,
Be sure in thy resolve, for love of me,
Let thee thy fair Jake hurl complete game three.
by YoDaddyWags on Apr 17, 2010 3:51 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Hey Wag you seen this? I thought it would be right up your alley.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
I like how his wife outs the bedside reading inspiration—no family secrets, there!—and gets 32 recs for it.
Mark Twain disliked Austen:
Whenever I take up “Pride and Prejudice” or “Sense and Sensibility,” I feel like a barkeeper entering the Kingdom of Heaven. I mean, I feel as he would probably feel, would almost certainly feel. I am quite sure I know what his sensations would be—and his private comments. He would be certain to curl his lip, as those ultra-good Presbyterians went filing self-complacently along. Because he considered himself better than they? Not at all. They would not be to his taste—that is all.
This is one team that Joseph Steven Inglett isn’t white enough to make, I guess.
Interesting how the only Indians on the list are major castoffs — Van Every, Aubrey, Breslow.
I’m going to assume that the suggestion here is that “gritty character” guys are employed due to these traits and not so much for their talent. Or, because they’re White? I think Redmond and Grudzielanek’s track records speak for themselves. If you think Grudzielanek has a job because he’s a gritty, White American with character than you should reconsider this opinion, and ask yourself why you hold it? Grudzielanek has 2000 hits and Redmond has put together a nice little career as a backup catcher. Granted, they’re well on the downside of their careers, but they haven’t yet proven they should hang it up. Today, there aren’t many Willie Harrises. Blacks numbers are down quite a bit in ML baseball. This viewpoint just smacks of some degree of racial bias to me.
To me the issue isn’t so much that these guys are employed, as it is the regard with which they are held. That is, you can explain why David Eckstein is on a major league roster, but you can’t explain why people hold the opinion of him that they do.
I think Eckstein is viewed as an over-achiever. And he (and others like him, eg. Carroll) is not a chest-thumping loud mouth. He quietly goes about his job, making the most of his ability. People still admire this today, albeit to a lesser degree. Why do people still hold this opinion? And why has it become increasingly fashionable among today’s athlete to bring the focus on yourself, whether it be by dancing, bat-flipping, or chest-thumping?
Its too easy today to make remarks about White players and I wonder where that comes from? Getting back to Jay’s original comment, would he have made a similar remark about a Black, Latin, or even Asian player. Maybe, only he can say. But not without consequences.
As FredOx suggests, I have this view because of the almost comical way that many media members and quite a few club officials describe players of this ilk. As for how this plays out, obviously if there is a “white preference” out there for bench players, it’s going to impact Latino players more than anyone else, simply because there are many more of them competing for jobs at this level.
And yes, by the way, I would absolutely comment on how players of other ethnic backgrounds are discussed stereotypically in the media.
I think Eckstein is viewed as an over-achiever. And he (and others like him, eg. Carroll) is not a chest-thumping loud mouth. He quietly goes about his job, making the most of his ability.
And this, right here, is simply evidence of correlating personality cues to character traits and values, and those things relate very differently from culture to culture. What you’re describing is simply “white American” values. Stoicism and “hustle” (obvious physical effort at unimportant times) are not held in immense esteem everywhere in the world, so a person of immense character, not from the U.S., may not exhibit that kind of personality, even if he’s an immensely serious and hardworking player.
Even the very notion of who is and isn’t an over-achiever has a huge element of ethnic and cultural bias. Juan Gonzalez is a natural talent, but David Eckstein is an over-achiever — who says? Empirically, what if any meaning do these labels have?
What you are showing, unintentionally, is that you fall prey to the same cultural miscues and assumptions as the media and decision-makers that we’re talking about.
I don’t agree with everything you’ve written, Jay. I’m a college graduate, but psychology and sociology were not my strong suits. Forgive me if I offended you. I’ll take you at your word. That being said, further comments would probably be fruitless. Would you agree? Enjoy the Tribe game tonite.
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