Game 57: Indians 11, Red Sox 0
by afh4 on Jun 9, 2010 9:59 PM EDT
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Let's get this out of the way: Matt LaPorta is pissed. Stole his girlfriend from Younglife camp pissed. Wouldn't let him listen to his DC Talk album after curfew pissed. Teaching evolution in his classroom pissed. Tonight, Matt was 4-4 with 3 HRs, thumbing his nose at Jay, Tony Lastoria, and everyone else who says he was being a petulant child who refused to go on the DL despite being clearly injured, as evidenced by his diminishing power. It appears that wasn't the problem. The problem, I guess, was Jon Nunnally. At any rate, Matt looks healthy and already too good for AAA (SSS notwithstanding) so, godspeed young slugger.
You know, before we get to the fireworks in Cleveland tonight, let's finish out what's happening down below. 2009 draftee Joe Gardner, he of the "heavy fastball", struck out 8 in only 6 IP for Kinston tonight, inducing 7 GBs along the way. Scott Barnes, otherwise known as the detritus of Ryan Garko, returned from the dead to strikeout 10 in 7 IP. Besides LaPorta, Nick Weglarz is staying hot, going 2-4 with a double and Carlos Carrasco brought his best prospect impression tonight, striking out 9 in 8 IP. This was pretty clearly CarCar's best start of the year and it's coinciding with what's been a rough patch for Indians' pitching.
Except for tonight. Justin Masterson dominated his old club tonight and , despite the bloated final score, he had to pitch in a tight game through 8 innings. In the bottom of the 8th inning, though, the Indians cracked it wide open with a team-wide effort, bringing 14 batters to the plate against (soon to be former major leaguers) Boof Bonser and Joe Nelson with the key blow coming in the form of Travis Hafner's first grand slam since May of 2007. It was a 3-0 nailbiter before the 8th and afterwords it was a 11-0 laugher.
For his part, Masterson couldn't have done any better in his faceoff with Clay Buchholz, the pitcher that many, many misinformed Indians' fans thought was on the table during the Victor Martinez negotiations. Masterson was the much better pitcher tonight, allowing only two hits in a 9 inning shutout, recording 17 outs on the ground (3 in the air), striking out 6, and using only 110 pitches. He was totally dominant against a lineup that featured 5 lefthanded batters.
The lesson here, as is often the lesson with baseball, is that you don't have any idea what you're talking about. It's incredibly tempting to pass judgment on all manners of baseball players: young ones, old ones, injured ones, ones with messed up platoon splits, ones who are trying new positions, ones who scuffled in the major leagues after dominating the minor leagues. It's equally tempting to pass judgment on the men who make the decisions about which of these young players go where and do what at what times. There's nothing wrong with giving into that temptation but the next time you want to beat your chest about how Masterson IS A RELIEVER or HAS TO DEVELOP ANOTHER PITCH or whatever your pet theory is, think of this game, or the White Sox game that ended his season last year, and count to ten while swallowing some of the bombast. Because we don't know what we're talking about. We really don't.
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Matt LaPorta is pissed. Stole his girlfriend from Younglife camp pissed. Wouldn’t let him listen to his DC Talk album after curfew pissed. Teaching evolution in his classroom pissed.
Amazing.
And I agree with the actual meat of your recap, but I really felt this particular segment should be highlighted and congratulated.
Steel Nick
Out for blood tonight?
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 9, 2010 10:32 PM EDT reply actions
Sometimes Jay uses the Twitter. He’s far more provocative than me, thought I was pretty proud of my koala/kodiak joke.
by afh4 on Jun 9, 2010 10:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I did like that one.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jun 10, 2010 5:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it’s amazing how a lot of the frustration around here is directed at people complaining about baseball. I’m a little surprised, given that it’s what happens when a team is really bad, which the Indians are. It happens literally every time a team is bad. For over 100 years.
by NickFantana on Jun 9, 2010 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
It’s bit about complaining and never has been. It’s about tone. I think most of the mods would agree that sports isn’t a place to act like
an angry child and that’s what many of us consistently rail against. Learn something and share it. Don’t shout nonsense. That’s my message.
by afh4 on Jun 9, 2010 10:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That bit should be a not. Mobile is killing me.
by afh4 on Jun 9, 2010 10:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m not trying to pile on, but “sports isn’t a place to act like an angry child?” Dude this is unbelievably didactic and a.) kinda wrong and paradoxically also b.) kinda obvious. It’s freaking sports, they mean nothing, its a dumb pursuit. To many us, its a hobby, and hobbies are goofy. You say “we” don’t know anything to soften your criticism, and maybe that’s true of many if not most, maybe even you, but you know what? I listen when Tribejay or many, many others speak. I’m not trying to be cliquey, just an example. I could name a whole slew of guys here who I love to see their brains on display.
Who, again, needs to tone down the bombast?
I’ve always believed that we should turn up the bombastic.
by supermarioelia on Jun 10, 2010 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions
I think you and most everyone else is confused about audience. If you’re smart and enter into discussion, that’s exactly what this site is for and, for the most part, what this site is cultivating.
What I have spent my last couple of weeks sifting through, and the audience whom this is written for, are all of these people.
Sure, it’s obvious that CLECommers should stop yelling so much. But it’s something to write about. If you’re not somebody given to over the top declarations then it’s not directed at you. Do you really not think that there’s far too much bombast in sports analysis and fandom? At ESPN and every idiot blog that parrots whatever Buck Showalter said?
But it’s something to write about.
I don’t see why this is the case. I prefer to just ignore all of it. The way I look at it, the mods here have worked tirelessly to create a sort of sports oasis. Why can’t we just enjoy it and ignore the cle-com background noise?
by NickFantana on Jun 10, 2010 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
THIS. Why do “we” have to remind ourselves so often about how much better we are than them?
by JulioBernazard on Jun 10, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
There is probably some connection between the populist Dolan is cheap chatter and the death of support for the club in Cleveland (granted, it’s just one of several obvious factors). Even when times were good there just wasn’t enough interest in the club. In our own way of rebuilding interest and cheerleading we’ve tried in the past to undermine that anti-Dolan, anti-Shapiro, anti-everything sentiment. It doesn’t seem to work. With Grady out, every last thing about this team is unpopular.
To sell this club, one has got to show that the new players are exciting and unique while highlighting the positives around the whole organization, and remind everyone that major league baseball is still a cool interesting spectacle.
This is an interesting argument but I think it’s got considerable nuance.
First, it’s not about anyone being better than anyone else. It’s about trying to fight against an increasingly decreasing level of discourse. This site gains far more page views a week than it does comments and, presumably, there are many members of the reading community that do not comment.
This is not a closed oasis, it’s a public site that’s read by people who still don’t get it. So, I guess I feel it follows that it makes sense to not ignore the lowest common denominators of Indians fandom but instead to address them so that readers, even if the are not active community members, can understand part of our perspective and maybe become intrigued enough to rethink their stances.
So, I guess I feel it follows that it makes sense to not ignore the lowest common denominators of Indians fandom but instead to address them so that readers, even if the are not active community members, can understand part of our perspective and maybe become intrigued enough to rethink their stances.
I agree with this and think that it’s perfectly in tune with what I said above about a sports oasis (notably never saying anything about it being closed, in fact some of my favorite moments have been when new folks have gotten uppity.)
My contention is that, while I agree with what you wrote in the blue box above, I don’t see how any of what you wrote in this recap serves that purpose. I will further say that I am very much sympathetic that your rhetorical tendencies have nothing to do with being better than anyone. I truly believe that. But I also believe that the recap above does more to exacerbate existing divisions than to force people to consider a new perspective.
I don’t know. I don’t really like it. I mean, I like parts of it, it’s fun and funny.
The thing is, you’re lumping in complete know-nothings with people who have made an earnest attempt to learn, understand an analyze situations. We’re all fair game for sport, I guess, but are LGTers (including me) really lined up for the same tongue-lashing as those total a-holes at cleveland.com?
I played with Tony’s idea that LaPorta was being petulant, as a couple other struggling Boras clients in the news have been recently. I never expressed any strong confidence about it. Masterson has been hotly debated, but I don’t blame anyone for feeling strongly about their position on that. It’s a tough question, and I would not be surprised if our arguments have been replicated fairly closely even in the all-knowing Cleveland front office.
But the bottom line is that thinking that Masterson has to go to the minors and/or learn a new pitch and/or be a reliever has not one thing to do with somehow convincing yourself that Shapiro DEFINITELY had his choice of Masterson or Buchholz and chose Masterson. The one is a thorny, difficult issue with no clear answer, while the other is simply an angry delusion with no basis in fact. They do not belong in the same discussion.
I suppose I just don’t think I put all these things into one discussion. That’s a failure of clarity on my part.
To me, I wrote the top part, where I had a little fun with the LaPorta issue, then I wrapped up the game, and then I tacked on a final paragraph on the increasingly shrill tone that I’m sensing has sprung up around this Indians’ team all over the internet. The final paragraph is not supposed to be a concluding one, linking the ones that come before it. Again, that’s my failure: I used the lousy language of “a lesson” to be learned, referring not to the lesson of this recap but instead to some other abstract idea.
When I wrote the final paragraph, I didn’t have any sense that it was at all controversial and if I’d been more clear in it’s point, I don’t think anyone would care about it. All I was trying to say is that it’s incredibly irritating to log into the twitter every 6 hours and read 25 different tweets declaring this or that player dead, this or that decision indefensible. That we would all do well to steal as far clear of that kind of thinking as we can.
To rephrase, my impression, even now in reading it, is that the tongue lashing is supposed to be reserved for the cle.com crowd. It’s got a crap use of a “universal you” in the opening line but I still don’t read it as calling this community to the carpet.
Maybe I’m turning into a radio show host.
Wow. I picked the wrong night to miss out on everything baseball. Has there been a better night, organization-wide, for the Tribe this season?
There’s nothing wrong with giving into that temptation but the next time you want to beat your chest about how Masterson IS A RELIEVER or HAS TO DEVELOP ANOTHER PITCH or whatever your pet theory is, think of this game, or the White Sox game that ended his season last year, and count to ten while swallowing some of the bombast. Because we don’t know what we’re talking about. We really don’t.
Ha, as I said in the end of the gamethread, I’ll happily swallow humble pie on this, but is it really chest-beating to have an opinion about baseball? I mean, it sounds like we can throw this remark in the “duh” bin, to say that your opinion is just, well, an uniformed joe-schmo opinion. And some opinions reveal a lot more than others – certainly not all are created equal. But I feel like it might make discussion interesting to have an opinion every now in then. Should we have a tagline like, “YES I DON’T KNOW ANYTHING AND THIS GAME IS FOR BOYS AND IS A MEANINGLESS WASTE OF TIME?”
by joeee on Jun 10, 2010 1:16 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Right.
This recap is absolutely on-the-money and delicious about the idiotic tone of so many ostensible fans. “THIS IS WHY SHAPIRO SUCKS.” Stuff like that.
But this recap is overly smug and condescending when it comes to substance. Thoughtful fans who have carefully analyzed Masterson on a start-by-start basis have some reason to be concerned, and telling them they know nothing is obviously silly.
Of course, that complaint is mitigated by the awesome use of “detritus” as well as the already noted stellar comparisons to LaPorta’s anger.
I’m not trying to say that people don’t have good reason to be concerned or talk about those concerns.
I’m saying that whatever our opinions, they’ve got to be mixed with a considerable dash of modesty from the very beginning because, after all, this is baseball and, after all, Cliff Lee happened. For the most part, I think all the active members of this site do a good job of this.
I’m a little flabbergasted that everyone thought I was mad at this community. Why would I be mad at people here? People here are great.
I’ll do better next time, hopefully.
by afh4 on Jun 10, 2010 10:05 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I took this as aimed mostly at the CLEcom and Twitter crowd. Apparently some of LGT was feeling insecure today.
Again, Andrew had two points: The first is that tone is general sports fandom sucks. He’s beyond right about that. It’s good to say it, and no, it’s not generally aimed at LGTers. His second is the closing point: You don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s hyperbole to make his point, which he articulates above very well: “Cliff Lee happened.” Exactly right. But it doesn’t require the hyperbolic “you don’t know what you’re talking about.” That’s all.
In defense of Andrew Franklinovich! Making a claim to certainty in the matter of Mr. Masterson, given our lack of access to things like video sessions, bullpen throwing sessions and opponent strategy meetings, is hyperbole. There are obviously very astute and acute observers here, but I think AFH is wise to remind us of our limitations.
by YoDaddyWags on Jun 10, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
His needing another pitch isn’t a pet theory. It’s reality.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 10, 2010 3:10 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I agree. My whole point isn’t that he can’t have successful starts or stretches as a two-pitch pitcher. When he has that type of command, his stuff is too good not to have success. I just don’t think he can have that type of command over the course of a season on a consistent basis. If he had a third pitch to use against lefties, he could survive without excellent command. But right now he’s in big trouble without it.
What you’ve seen in these past three starts is why they have left him in the rotation. He absolutely controlled that game last night.
I think the third pitch thing is interesting and might turn out to be true. I’m just not sure it’s any more likely that he adds a third effective pitch than it is that he starts to be a guy with excellent command. Both seem pretty unlikely to me, I guess.
Could be. Perhaps what we’re figuring out is that Masterson is an extreme type of pitcher. In other words, all pitchers do better when they have command, but Masterson is more likely to live on the extreme edges of success and failure depending on his level of command.
Masterson is more likely to live on the extreme edges of success and failure depending on his level of command.
That sounds outright terrifying.
by NickFantana on Jun 10, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Small nitpick, but he got 17 groundballs, not groundouts.
LGT's resident moderate Yankee hating fan.
by Joe. on Jun 10, 2010 3:43 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Great moment in the manager’s post-game interview last night. Acta wasn’t aware of LaPorta’s night when a reporter asked him if there was a timetable to promote him after his 3-homer night. Acta shot forward in his chair, with an “are you kidding?” look on his face. He actually asked if that was a legitimate report. He was clearly jazzed by this.
He also stated that he is down there to work on his hitting, and that when he was deemed ready, he’d come up to play every day. This differs from his comment from a day or two ago, when he said that playing time needed to be “earned.”
I saw this. I laughed out lout when Acta asked if was a “legit report”.
Of course, depending on which reporter asked the question, that is a valid question.
“The lesson here, as is often the lesson with baseball, is that you don’t have any idea what you’re talking about.” — afh4
No, we have absolutely no idea. Nevertheless, we’ll say it with authority. Ain’t it grand?
by just a bit outside on Jun 10, 2010 8:18 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
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