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Around SBN: Stan Van Gundy Fired As Head Coach Of The Magic

The Mets still have interest in Lilly and Myers but are said to be turning their attention to Indians right-hander Jake Westbrook

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Link is a story about the Astros.

by ken from alexandria on Jul 21, 2010 12:45 PM EDT reply actions  

It’s down in the rumblings.

by dgcambridge on Jul 21, 2010 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

How deep is the NYM chain?

by JulioBernazard on Jul 21, 2010 12:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Opinion article on Jake in the the New York Daily News

Westbrook may not be a sexy deal. But the Mets don’t need a savior. Mostly they need someone besides Takahashi to start against the Dodgers on Thursday.

by dgcambridge on Jul 21, 2010 1:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Who else? Dodgers, Twins, Cardinals. Maybe Haren goes first though.

by dgcambridge on Jul 21, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

St. Louis, meanwhile, was also believed to be trying to get a starter, with its focus on Cleveland’s Jake Westbrook and Arizona’s Dan Haren.

With Brad Penny and Kyle Lohse on the disabled list, the Cardinals over the past two months have gotten just two quality starts from a pitcher other than Adam Wainwright, Chris Carpenter or Jaime Garcia.

Per Ed Price of AOL Fanhouse

by The DiaTriber on Jul 21, 2010 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d love to see Jake traded, but Jhonny is first on my list (and I’d accept almost nothing back in return). Get Carrasco and Goedert up and playing in Cleveland!

by MTF on Jul 21, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

1 flags

Must not be here for baseball either. Because that isn't what we're playing.

by westbrook on Jul 21, 2010 1:03 PM EDT reply actions  

The Indians, meanwhile, would trade the 33-year-old Westbrook in a minute for a mid-level prospect if the Mets would pick up most of what’s left on his $11 million contract this season.

I thought there was no particular rush to lop salary this year—or has the terrible attendance emptied out the bank account?

by YoDaddyWags on Jul 21, 2010 1:09 PM EDT reply actions  

i’m sure it’s one or the other. give us a good prospect, we’ll cover some salary. want to hoard your talent, fine, you pay for him.

by Brick. on Jul 21, 2010 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn’t one of the beat guys report the other day that the Indians are not looking to dump salary on Westbrook and would rather get back talent?

by Jay on Jul 21, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah, but i took that as they don’t need to. but that doesn’t mean they won’t do the other does it? if we’re not looking to shed salary, but money isn’t an object for the other team and they don’t want to shed prospects, something has to give. “Sorry, Omar, we’re just not looking to shed payroll at this time.”

by Brick. on Jul 21, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it means that they prefer to get talent back, as they usually have in the past (though not always).

The salary relief could be considerable, however. It is entirely possible that they end up in a situation where their best “talent” offer is something clearly less valuable than their best “salary relief” offer, which could be something like $3 million. In that situation, I would imagine they take the money. And find a way to announce the Pomeranz signing the same day.

by Jay on Jul 21, 2010 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes, all of this.

by Brick. on Jul 21, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

HELL YES

As long as it ends up as lopsided as the Blake deal was, the Dodgers can have literally anyone in our entire organization. And I do mean anyone.

by Jay on Jul 21, 2010 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions   2 recs

Except Santana, of course.

by madherb on Jul 21, 2010 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

But we might get back Santana-squared!

by Logodaedalus on Jul 21, 2010 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Strasburg!

Must not be here for baseball either. Because that isn't what we're playing.

by westbrook on Jul 21, 2010 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Crazy maybe, but I’d take Santana

Where's your crown, KIng Nothing?

by Turkmenbashi on Jul 21, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who else is there then that could be Santana-squared? The child of Jenny FInch and that Diamondbacks guy?

Must not be here for baseball either. Because that isn't what we're playing.

by westbrook on Jul 21, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Diamondbacks guy?

In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).

by V-Mart Shopper on Jul 22, 2010 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

>

Blake: Thanks to you, I am damaged beyond repair!!

by emd2k3 on Jul 22, 2010 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Casey Daigle. DFA’d by the Astros on July 18. He and Finch have a four-year-old son. Child of two pitchers is, predictably, named Ace.

Ace’s mom is definitely the better pitcher.

by FredOx on Jul 22, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Well, at least they have a kid. That part was hypothetical.

Must not be here for baseball either. Because that isn't what we're playing.

by westbrook on Jul 22, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

LeBron James Jr.?

Where's your crown, KIng Nothing?

by Turkmenbashi on Jul 22, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even I will sign up for this.

Must not be here for baseball either. Because that isn't what we're playing.

by westbrook on Jul 21, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t know, that quote seems undeniably true to me. We can even use that $$$ to pay Westbrook next year.

by dgcambridge on Jul 21, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like this idea too.

Must not be here for baseball either. Because that isn't what we're playing.

by westbrook on Jul 21, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmmm, Jake making his bid to stay in Cleveland after that inning….

"Ok everyone listen up! I've just invited Dave to suck it!"

by GoTribe028 on Jul 21, 2010 2:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Jake is not that special. The Westbrook crowd can fall in love with Talbot instead.

It won’t be an urgent salary dump; it’s more like opportunistic salary relief. If we can trade him now—even for just an average prospect—why not?

by jhon on Jul 21, 2010 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Wells said. I’d miss Westbrook far more than I’d ever miss Peralta, at least on a strictly emotional level.

Where's your crown, KIng Nothing?

by Turkmenbashi on Jul 21, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I work with a girl from his hometown, knows his sister very well. He is considered to be a great guy. He played catch with her son when he was laid up. They love him there. We need more guys like Jake Westbrook. rec, and green.

by kennesawmountainwahoo on Jul 21, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hammy said today that Jake’s father still catches him in the offseason.

Also! That post above needs 30 more recs.

Must not be here for baseball either. Because that isn't what we're playing.

by westbrook on Jul 21, 2010 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep, especially after recent events.

by kennesawmountainwahoo on Jul 21, 2010 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Perhaps he’s also killed a guy when nobody was watching, and, because nobody was watching, we’ll never know.

But seriously, Jake’s never come across as anything other than a good guy. He said he wants to fulfill his contract in Cleveland. But I’d rather see Jake pitch for a contender and the Indians get some prospects/salary relief. If Jake really enjoys Cleveland, he can always resign.

by xrickx on Jul 21, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Indeed, I enjoyed his time with Cleveland greatly. Although I did not enjoy his time with the current contract. But injuries happen. I definitely like Jake.

I guess it’s on the reputation of all the things you mention and on career resume that teams are interested right now because I can’t see anything very impressive about the way he’s pitched this year. Hopefully that reputation will land us something interesting.

In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).

by V-Mart Shopper on Jul 22, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hey, the guy you need to convince is sitting in the cubicle next to you. Right, Andrew?

by dgcambridge on Jul 22, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve decided to stay out of this. My feelings on the emotional response to Sabathia/Lee/Westbrook are both less clear and less well-formed than some others’. Suffice to say, I think Jake is getting unnecessary bonus points for not being all that good. At the same time, all we can evaluate is what actually happened and Sabathia did make the evil choice.

by afh4 on Jul 22, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cool, no argument there, but then you’d rank Blake as a True Cleveland Indian too, right?

Westbrook and Blake are superb guys and, at times, they’ve been very good players.

Going forward, I think most people agree that we can live without Jake BUT—if his next deal is reasonably affordable—it would be great to have him back. The recovery gradient from TJ surgery is well known around here.

We really needed a healthy Jake Westbrook type on those latter 90s teams.

by jhon on Jul 22, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure he is, why not? But he wasn’t as good as Jake by a long shot.

Here’s Blake’s AL Top 10 finishes while with the Indians:

Strikeouts (2004) – 139 (5th)
Sac Bunts (2003) – 8 (9th)
Sac Flies (2003) – 8 (9th)
GIDP (2004) – 19 (9th)
Caught Stealing (2003) – 9 (5th)

Now here’s Jake’s:
WAR (2004) – 4.4 (10th among AL pitchers)
ERA (2004) – 3.38 (3rd)
WHIP (2004) – 1.247 (4th)
Innings Pitched (2004) – 215.2 (9th)
Innings Pitched (2005) – 210.2 (10th)
Innings Pitched (2006) – 211.1 (10th)
Complete Games (2004) – 5 (1st)
Complete Games (2005) – 2 (10th)
Complete Games (2006) – 3 (3rd)
Shutouts (2004) – 1 (4th)
Shutouts (2006) – 2 (1st)
Hits Allowed (2006) – 247 (1st)
HR per 9 IP (2004) – .793 (5th fewest)
HR per 9 IP (2004) – .812 (5th fewest)
HR per 9 IP (2004) – .639 (3rd fewest)

Jake was never a great pitcher, but for a while there, he really was very good at some of the most important things a pitcher can be good at — inducing weak contact, eating innings, and suppressing home runs. Blake was a complementary player, sometimes above average, rarely excelling at anything but complementary skills.

by Jay on Jul 22, 2010 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see that most of these were in his best year in 2004.

In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).

by V-Mart Shopper on Jul 22, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, although the last two should have said (2005) and (2006) — copy-paste error.

In Blake’s best year, he was something like an elite pitcher, and Blake was never close to any elite level in any year. His top WAR finish was also in 2004, when he was 33rd in the AL. You can’t really compare that season or any of his others to Jake’s 2004.

At the same time, Jake remained very valuable in 2005 and 2006, and when healthy, even better in 2007. Blake also had a few decent seasons, but I would argue, given Jake’s high groundball and low longball rates, that they still don’t really compare to Jake’s.

by Jay on Jul 22, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good points.

In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).

by V-Mart Shopper on Jul 22, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

TJ or not, the thing that scares me about Jake is his incorporation of other non-sinker pitches.

According to fangraphs, he’s throwing his sinker nearly 10% less now than he did during his 2004-2007 seasons. He’s also walking more people and giving up more homeruns than ever. His BABIP is right at his career average. So what can we take away?

1) His command either has not come back, which which wouldn’t be surprising, or his command is where it should be, but he doesn’t have the same amount of control over his non-sinker pitches.

2) Non-sinkers get hit for homeruns more often than sinkers. His homeruns allows will rise if he’s going to throw less sinkers.

3) He’s not been unlucky this year.

4) If he’s going to get it together, he must start throwing more strikes with his non-sinkers. And he has to cut the walks, or else his increased homeruns allowed are going to be more damaging.

I appreciate the effort for Jake to evolve as a pitcher, but he’s abandoning the skill that made him so useful in the first place—a sinker that he knows he can throw for strikes which rarely led to walks or homeruns.

by xrickx on Jul 22, 2010 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

They ought to give him Joe Gardener’s digits so they can compare notes. Not on the way out, I mean, but on the way back.

by jhon on Jul 22, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Arm too strong to keep the ball down?

Must not be here for baseball either. Because that isn't what we're playing.

by westbrook on Jul 22, 2010 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I had noted his negative pitch value on sinker this year in a post about a month ago…it’s gotten progressively worse since 2004.

It seems to me that it takes him awhile longer to get the feel for it during a game. And when he gets in trouble (runners in scoring position), he tends to almost abandon the sinker. It’s changeups and cutters to lefties and changeups and slurves to righties. He’s always tended to be this way, but I think it’s more pronounced now than before. I just don’t think he has the ability to be as consistent with the sinker anymore.

Because of this, it’s sometimes exhausting to watch him pitch. I agree with all the other comments about how classy he is and how he conducts himself among fans, etc. But from a baseball perspective, I don’t know that I’d miss him terribly. But, maybe he’d be better next year one more year removed from surgery. I think many of us are conflicted on if they want him back next year.

by TribeJay on Jul 22, 2010 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was definitely hoping for a good outing from Westbrook today.

In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).

by V-Mart Shopper on Jul 21, 2010 2:21 PM EDT reply actions  

I’m also surprised to see that they are going to eat some of his remaining contract AND give us a prospect in return. That sounds fantastic!

In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).

by V-Mart Shopper on Jul 21, 2010 2:52 PM EDT reply actions  

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