Game 97: Rays 6, Indians 3
by Ryan on Jul 24, 2010 10:40 PM EDT
in Game Recaps
37 comments
For four innings, it looked like Cleveland's 18-game improbable home winning streak against the Tampa Bay Rays would get even more improbable.
Rays ace David Price had given up three runs to the Indians, and former Ray Mitch Talbot had struck out 6 Tampa batters without giving up a hit. Those six strikeouts by Talbot came consecutively, matching the franchise record (Bob Feller, Bartolo Colon, Chuck Finley); if not for a missed call by the home plate umpire, he would have set the record, but LGFT Kelly Shoppach would ground out to end the strikeout streak. Through those first innings, Talbot threw nothing but a fastball (though with good movement) and a great fall-off-the-table changeup. Mitch spotted both pitches with precision the first time through the order, for the most part living on the outside part of the plate. But the second time around, the Tampa hitters adjusted to his strategy, Talbot's pitches weren't as well-placed, and they started to tee off. After Shoppach singled past Jhonny Peralta with two outs (a ball that Andy Marte might have got to..see the picture headlining this recap), Jason Bartlett found the right-side hole with a grounder, bringing leadoff hitter Ben Zobrist to the plate for his third crack at Talbot. He hit the railing on the top of the left field wall for a three-run homer to tie the game.
With Zobrist's home run, the tide turned. David Price, who had almost exclusively thrown fastballs early in the game, starting throwing his other pitches, and got better as the game went on. After Shelley Duncan jumped on a thigh-high fastball to make the game 3-0 Tribe, Price wouldn't give up another extra-base hit. After the Rays tied the game, he retired the next nine Indians in order. He walked Jason Donald on four pitches to open the eighth, and wouldn't throw another pitch, though Joaquin Benoit didn't get up until after the walk. The Rays used every delay tactic at their disposal, sending the pitching coach out, sending Shoppach out to talk about the best Cleveland dining establishments, and then, exhausting the mound visits, had him throw over to first four straight times. By then, Benoit was ready to go. Crowe struck out, Cabrera flew out, but then Choo singled, bringing the tying run to the plate in the form of Carlos Santana. With Peralta up next, I would imagine that Maddon was willing to put Santana on, as evidenced by a 3-2 split changeup, but the normally patient Santana swung at ball four, ending the last real chance to get back into the game.
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Actually, it looked like he, Talbot, started missing his spots and lost a little of his fastball starting in the forth. He’ll be a lot better next year.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
What indicates he will be better? Just natural progression of a decent rookie? Or some other indications? His K numbers improving?
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Jul 25, 2010 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Partly natural progression. Experience is probably more important for pitchers than hitters. Talbot needs to learn how to pace himself and harness that energy. The lose in velocity and location tell me this maybe more of a conditioning and focus issue rather than talent. We’ll talk again next year when his ERA+ is around 1.30
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
With Peralta up next,I would imagine that Maddon was willing to put Santana on, as evidenced by a 3-2 split changeup, butthe normally patient Santana swung at ball four, ending the last real chance to get back into the game.
Must not be here for baseball either. Because that isn't what we're playing.
I would guess this has been covered plenty on LGT, but I’m not seeing everything, so I’ll ask: Am I the only one who would prefer we start Duncan every day in lieu of guys like Crowe? Isn’t it possible that he’s on some Ludwickian uptick?
Ryan’s been the mouthpiece for this idea in the past—he has four or five years left of club control, which because of his age would mean we have him through his prime. Based on his track record, I see more of platoon lefty-masher than an every day player, but those guys have value to a good club too. Especially since the Indians have a DH who OPS’s 839 aginst RHP and 595 against LHP (SSS on both), and are tied to him until 2025 or so.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 25, 2010 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Through his prime? Duncan will be 31 in a couple of months. I’d say his prime is coming to a close already. To me, the bigger significance is minimum salary in 2011 and 2012, and if by some chance he’s really been performing, you might go for that first year of arbitration in 2013.
I do think he could be on a Ludwickian uptick, as he’s never really reached his upside. Tom is right, a lefty-masher has some value to a club, especially if he’s cheap. We gave Eduardo Perez a one-year deal for $1.75 million in 2006.
You’re right about his prime, obviously. I thought he was 29 for some reason.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 25, 2010 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
More importantly, we all know who Eduardo Perez turned into…
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 25, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I would doubt the Indians would keep him around past 2012 or 2013, but in the meantime, he could be a nice role player, starting against left-handers and pinch-hitting for a Michael Brantley (or equivalent) if you need a home run rather than a base hit.
But as far as upside, give me the 31-year-old Duncan over the 26-year-old Crowe any day of the week.
Duncan’s been fun to watch for sure.
some Duncania:
Duncan is joked about by announcers for his very enthusiastic high fives, brother bashes, and chest bumps in the dugout with his teammates. This led to the creation of his nickname, “Slam” Duncan. Former Yankee manager Joe Torre said in an interview with the YES Network that he tried to avoid Duncan whenever Duncan would celebrate.
Duncan was involved in some minor controversy on September 14, 2007, when, before the game between the Yankees and Red Sox at Fenway Park, Duncan wrote “Red Sox Suck!” along with his autograph on a 10-year-old Red Sox fan’s notebook. Duncan later apologized to the boy’s family, saying he got caught up in the excitement of the Yankees – Red Sox rivalry.
THAT
IS
AWESOME!
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 25, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Speaking of which, is there a bad pitcher contract we could swap Hafner for in the offseason? Scott Kazmir maybe?
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 25, 2010 9:56 AM EDT reply actions
Is that really a good swap for us? (Hafner for Kazmir) Hafner might not be the pronk of old, but he still has a lot more value than Kazmir who hasn’t been able to get anyone out in two years. Though on the positive side, Kazmir is owed less money than Hafner.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 25, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Right, the contract is a year shorter, for one thing. My second thought is, if we’re really talking about signing Westbrook at $8-9 million, or whatever, why not try to break even with Hafner instead? We certainly could use pitching more than Hafner’s .405 SLG at this point. So it’s as much a hitting-for-pitching trade as anything else.
Kazmir was just a name anyway… I’ve been thinking of the framework of such a deal for a few days and he was the first guy I came across that fit the description. Someone brought up Silva-for-Bradley which is what jogged the brain cells. Anyway, it’s far from a fully-formed thought.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 25, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Exqueeze me? Kazmir was striking out 10 per 9 just two years ago, led the league in strikeouts the year before that, and he dominated (briefly) after being traded to the Angels just last year. I bet he’s going to pitch well again at some point.
I’m very reluctant to pay $13 mil for a pitcher who’s velocity, k/9, and innings pitched have been rapidly decreasing while his BB/9, ERA, and FIP have been increasing. Kazmir’s still young, so he might be good again someday, but will it be during his current contract? I’m skeptical.
Even still, I’m not altogether opposed to a contract swap, especially considering the shorter contract length and the $13 mil in savings. That trade might actually make some sense for both teams with the Angels looking for a DH.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 25, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Worth a shot to explore a swap of bad contracts, but they wouldn’t do that particular deal. I think we’re nearing the point where we should release Hafner and eat the remainder of the contract. If he is still a wreck next spring, let him go. Everytime I say this he goes on a mini-tear, however.
Kazmir definitely deserves another shot.
by jhon on Jul 25, 2010 12:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Why would you eat the contract of a .340 wOBA player?
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 25, 2010 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s horrible. Roster space. Also! The sunk cost of a totally unproductive player, both now and probably in the future.
But the son of a gun is 4-4 today. What’d I tell ya? Every time I conclude that we should pull the plug, he starts to hit a little.
He’s disappointed, but I wouldn’t call him horrible. He still brings value to the offense as demonstrated by hiw wOBA which is decent even in his current slump.
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Jul 25, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
There must be several career minor leaguers inside of every organization in baseball who could contribute for us what Hafner has in recent memory. Probably dozens of players already out of baseball are as useful as our light hitting DH. What’s Geoff Jenkins up to these days?
by jhon on Jul 25, 2010 7:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Without looking it up, cutting him after the season would cost us something like 28 million bucks. I wonder how great the subsidy would have to be to convince another team to take on the contract. I am guessing it’s between 20 mil and the total amount owed. If we can dump it and stop any part of the loss, great. If we can’t, 28 mil is a lot to cough up. It might make sense at some point to get Hafner on the Bonilla deferment plan.
by jhon on Jul 25, 2010 9:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Of course. Goofed on the language. If he’s ultimately released, is the regular salary schedule kept intact, or is he handed a payout for his future obligations? If he elects to play elsewhere during what would have been his contract term, even if for the league minimum, is there precedent for a deal in which this salary is deducted or recaptured by the Indians?
by jhon on Jul 25, 2010 11:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Worth a shot to explore a swap of bad contracts, but they wouldn’t do that particular deal.
Obviously it would depend on soft factors, like if the Angels’ scouts thought they could rehabilitate Hafner, or if Scioscia was just sick of running Kazmir out there every 5 days. Milton Bradley still keeps finding takers, despite his contract, attitude and performance. Obviously, from a FanGraphs-type POV, it’s a bad trade for the Angels.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 25, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Re-reading that, I don’t mean to put you with the Fan Graphs crowd. Again, I’m just throwing out ideas. Objectively, that trade is an Indians win. I wouldn’t have come up with an Indians loss.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Jul 25, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
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