CC Sabathia: Unsure Who He Once Played With
by afh4 on Jul 28, 2010 1:10 PM EDT
in Analysis
54 comments
"You look back on Cleveland and the only one that's left is Jake [Westbrook]. It's kind of sad to me."
"I only know three people on that team," he said. "It's not like I've got a lot of friends over there. Jake [Westbrook], [Travis] Hafner and [Shin-Soo] Choo. Grady [Sizemore] is not even here right now. It just feels like coming to another place to play."
I don't like to examine athletes' statements too closely. I generally think it's unfair-these are men who were vaulted to incredible fame for reasons that have nothing to do with being lucid thinkers or speakers. It's no fault of theirs that fans want to take their statements as purposeful or revealing when, in fact, they're mostly just saying something so that Paul Hoynes will go bother someone else.
That said, Sabathia's behavior, already revealed by Castrovince as the self-serving tactics of a blowhard, is reaching new levels of absurdity that have to be acknowledged. I don't need to reiterate the points regarding the financial realities that Cleveland faced because of Sabathia's choices; Castro has made those ably. I just want to point out that, even if we leave behind the larger discussion and its foundation in rational thought, Sabathia isn't even close to getting the details of his own career right.
You can view every player that appeared for the 2007 Cleveland Indians here. Let's quickly sort these players:
Still With Cleveland (12): Jhonny Peralta, Grady Sizemore, Travis Hafner, Asdrubal Cabrera, Andy Marte, Shin-Soo Choo, Fausto Carmona, Jake Westbrook, Aaron Laffey, Rafael Perez, Jeremy Sowers, Jensen Lewis
With Other Major League Teams (11): Casey Blake, Victor Martinez, Jason Michaels, Franklin Gutierrez, Kelly Shoppach, Ben Francisco, Cliff Lee, CC Sabathia, Rafael Betancourt, Edward Mujica, Fernando Cabrera
Floatsam & Jetsam (18): Ryan Garko, Josh Barfield, Trot Nixon, David Dellucci, Kenny Lofton, Mike Rouse, Chris Gomez, Luis Rivas, Paul Byrd, Joe Borowski, Tom Mastny, Aaron Fultz, Jason Stanford, Roberto Hernandez, Jason Davis, Mike Koplove, Juan Lara, Matt Miller
And, just for fun, let's consider which of the Major League players would even still be under Indians' control considering their 2007 contract status. I charitably count 19: the twelve still in Cleveland plus Gutierrez, Martinez, Shoppach, Francisco, Lee, Mujica and Cabrera. Any simple analysis shows that the Indians tried to keep that 2007 team together and, in fact, the key elements of the roster were largely intact entering 2008 when, of course, Sabathia did everything he could to ruin the season over his first seven starts, continuing his string of ruining things that stretched back to the 2007 ALCS. By the time Sabathia had righted himself he had to be traded because, well, you know, because Mark Shapiro is a mean old man who didn't like the team he had meticulously assembled and watched come within a game of the World Series and that, suddenly, was lined up to have three potential aces to begin 2009 in Sabathia, Lee and Carmona. Yeah, Sabathia was traded because Shapiro hated that team. Or maybe Shapiro just hates Cleveland-I can't tell.
To get back on track: there are 12 players still in Cleveland that CC Sabathia played with in 2007, including the men who played directly behind Sabathia in the 2007 playoffs at 2B, SS and CF. Also remaining are the starting DH, the obvious number two and three playoff starters and a reliever that CC watched become, briefly, the best in the world. So when Sabathia looks back and thinks there are only three players left from his era and one of the three he remembers fondly is a player that wasn't even on the playoff roster in 2007, that CC played with for, at absolute most, a couple months in his career, it pisses me off. At least acknowledge your middle infielders.
It's interesting that Sabathia thinks of Choo as one of his old dyed-in-the-wool teammates. Also, how he and Cliff Lee reminisce about all those months when they were a formidable one-two punch for the Indians. That makes sense: superstars always play and peak together, right? In New York, I suppose that's true.
I wrote the book on being enamored of Sabathia and I'm closing it. At least he's finally getting to play with a team that values the same things he seems to: continuity and tradition.
Still With New York (9): Jorge Posada, Robinson Cano, Derek Jeter, Alex Rodriguez, Andy Pettitte, Phil Hughes, Kei Igawa, Joba Chamberlain, Mariano Rivera
With Other Major League Teams (18): Hideki Matsui, Melky Cabrera, Bobby Abreu, Jason Giambi, Johnny Damon, Shelley Duncan, Wilson Betemit, Miguel Cairo, Jose Molina, Wil Nieves, Alberto Gonzalez, Kyle Farnsworth, Tyler Clippard, Brian Bruney, Jeff Karstens, Ross Ohlendorf, Ian Kennedy, Carl Pavano
11 recs |
54 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
I thought mentioning Choo was really telling, like he was trying to name drop while also making an effort to act like that ’07 was even better than it was because, you know, Choo was in the OF and Lee was in the rotation.
-Kyle
Yeah, exactly. He mentions Choo because people know who Choo is and he wants to be associated with that.
Yeah. And his partner in crime (Fausto) from that 2007 year…is apparently a nobody.
The Once and Future King
Fausto’s too busy thinking about pitch, not diss.
"Facebook is bad news. It and Jason Donald both crush dreams." - JRontherim
by woodsmeister on Jul 28, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Yeah, I think that’s definitely the case. If I weren’t so livid at Sabathia’s total package of behavior, I probably would’ve delved into that.
That said, I wonder how many conversations he’s had with Choo. I still don’t have a real sense of Choo’s conversational English (although I think I remember him doing ok in a postgame interview).
Right, and who knows how divided your standard major league clubhouse is. But for CC to say it the way he did was pretty ugly.
To be fair, he probably thought Laffey and Sowers worked in the front office.
Is there any doubt Sowers will have a coaching job with the Indians if he wants it? I say by 2012, he’s a roving minor league pitching instructor.
Bud Black could pitch.
"Facebook is bad news. It and Jason Donald both crush dreams." - JRontherim
by woodsmeister on Jul 28, 2010 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
This memorable report describes how CC had trouble with focus even while he was playing with teammates.
Stunning; I never would have guessed that the 2007 Indians remain more intact than the 2007 Yankees.
And that’s even with you giving them credit for “still having” Kei Igawa, who hasn’t pitched in the majors in two years.
I figured they should get one of Igawa and Wang.
by afh4 on Jul 28, 2010 2:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Really, I’m so calloused to these types of comments that it doesn’t really surprise me anymore. I just now most athletes have this kind of attitude and that old notion of city loyalty is a relic of the 80’s.
When someone actually shows remorse or fondness for their time in another town, it’s actually more shocking. Like Manny did a few years back. Or maybe that was just all bs because he was trying to get the hell out of Boston to make more money.
Manny seems strangely genuine to me at all times. I doubt he’s savvy enough to know how to pretend.
Blake: Thanks to you, I am damaged beyond repair!!
This. He’s like the second grader who remembers how much fun it was in kindergarten, before he had homework.
by Buckeye Brad on Jul 28, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
i keep going back to the thing sabathia keeps going back to – that “If only they would have kept us together.” and think. In 2008, you were together, jackass… and you crapped the bed big time, as andrew points out.
That bullpen just killed this team. I had defended Sabathia for awhile but now I’m done.
Case of the beet bandit. Missing beets from all over the farm, no footprints. Inside job. Mose in socks. Boom. Case closed. -Dwight Schrute
I got off the CC bandwagon right about the time he shut off contract negotiations prior to ST in ’08. It was pretty clear then and clearer now that he was going after the last penny. None of his idiocy has surprised me since.
I was and remain luke warm about Victor. His ability to selectively forget is troubling, but, unlike Sabathia and his buddy LeStunod, I don’t think he’s a complete socio-path.
But I’m still a big fan of Cliff. I don’t think he’ll “misremember” as much as LeStunod and Cazzi Culone. But if he signs with the Jackasses, I’ll hafta renounce him too.
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
We’ll see. Tell you what my money’s on the broke-ass Rangers, you can have the Yankees in the Cliff Lee sweepstakes. Wanna bet?
Resident LGT results-oriented boob.
Lee has been my favorite Indian ever since Vizquel left. It was difficult to see him go, but I have loved the teams he’s been to since then. Really hope the Rangers win it all this year, he deserves a ring for how spectacularly dominant he’s been.
I try not to dislike players too much when they sign elsewhere in free agency, I don’t boo guys like Thome or Manny, etc. But CC’s comments have just been so plainly ignorant that combined with the fact that he’s on the Yankees, I just don’t want to see him succeed with them anymore.
No reason to dump on the Indians or even Cleveland so much, even worse that’s he’s pretty much talking out of his ass.
All right. I confess that even though I don’t like it that Sabathia plays for the Yankees, I still really appreciate his time as a Cleveland Indian, and I’m much more sympathetic with his comments than most other commentors. It’s not that he is accurate in his memories—he’s not. But in all fairness, people enter and leave clubhouses all the time in baseball, and I suspect that fans have a much greater remembrance of who was on what teams during what years than most players do, beyond their narrow circle of friends and a couple of long-term players. Plus, Sabathia was saying these things off the top of his head, not after writing a term paper on the subject.
This episode brings to mind Eric Wedge’s conviction, just a few months ago, that most of the players who played for him are now gone. Maybe they’re just in a New York state of mind.
I’m also reminded of the classic Ricky Henderson story of a decade ago or so, when he was playing, as I recall, for the Mets. He saw John Olerud wearing the batting helmet with the jaw protector and said, “Hey, I played with a guy in Seattle who wore one of those things.” To which Olerud replied, “Yeah, that was me.”
by Deep South Ken on Jul 28, 2010 9:16 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
rec for the ricky anecdote although I disagree with the comment in general.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Jul 28, 2010 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions
This thing about CC annoys me. Did you forget that baseball is a business? We just sent Jhonny to Detroit. It wasn’t his choice. Every baseball player knows he can be dealt at the whim of the owner (well, most anyway).
Hell, read the comments here in the weeks before the trading deadline every year. All this chatter about who on our team has trade value and who can get for them. Do WE even care if those players would like to stay in Cleveland?
With that attitude why is everyone so outraged at CC’s comments? He’s a businessman with a marketable talent. Did you think he was pitching for the Indians because he loved the town, his manager, and his teammates? Right. He was building his resume, just like a majority of college grads today. Yeah it would be nice if CC showed by his comments that he was BFFs with his teammates and continued those sacred bonds after leaving, but alas, he’s just a high-paid jerk like half the people on Wall Street or K Street in DC.
Fitzgerald said the rich are different from you and me. So are star athletes.
Especially those jackasses in pinstripes…
If you believe it's just a game, you're also probably wondering why Santa keeps skipping your house every year.
You’re reading this backwards. The frustration is not that he made a business decision when we wanted him to make a team/town decision. I know I’m not that kind of delusional fan. The frustration is that Sabathia keeps suggesting that he wanted to make a team/town decision, and that mean old Shapiro and Dolan broke up the team.
I’m not surprised that he made a business-only decision. Nor am I surprised that refuses to admit it. But if he’s not going to do so, then he should at least shut the hell up. Sabathia is the guy playing the starry-eyed fool here.
by dgcambridge on Jul 29, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Point taken, and you’re right he should just shut up. But in a society where loyalty is discouraged, reality shows are scripted, politicians get elected for denying reality, and star athletes are given their own TV show to gracelessly celebrate leaving their old team, and we baseball fans treat our players like commodities, why would anyone take CC’s prattling seriously? (rhetorical question)
If you believe it's just a game, you're also probably wondering why Santa keeps skipping your house every year.
by LeftyCatcher on Jul 29, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Well written, Andrew. I found that statement of Sabathia’s to be laughable when I read it because I knew there were more than Westbrook left on this team, and I knew there were more than three too.
As has been mentioned, Sabathia is the one who refused to commit to the Indians during the 2008 season when the rest of the team was intact. Combine that with his poor start, and Shapiro had no other reasonable option than to trade him and get the best package possible. Otherwise, Shapiro would have had two 1st-Round draft picks who would be 3-4 years away minimum from meaningfully contributing (doesn’t that sound like what the Cavaliers are going through with the LeBron debacle, putting all of their “faith” in him, and getting “rewarded” with draft picks? Is that what Sabathia wanted the Indians to do – show him loyalty by not trading him, then he likely pulling a “LeBron” and fleeing Cleveland, with us holding the short-end of the stick? No thanks, CC.)
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Let's Go Tribe!
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
Featured Stories
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recent FanShots
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Nyjer Morgan builds on bad reputation in brawl with Marlins
- The Juice: Rookie Danny Valencia comes through again for Twins
- Slumpbot .200: Cliff Lee's struggles continue down in Texas
- Ryan Howard beats ailing ankle, smacks first homer since July 27
- Reds' Chapman throws 102 mph in 1-2-3 major league debut
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
