Game 124: Tigers 8, Indians 1
by Brick. on Aug 22, 2010 3:46 PM EDT
in Game Recaps
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PrintIn his first start, against the Tigers, Jeanmar Gomez threw 7 innings, giving up 5 hits, a couple of unearned runs, walking one and striking out four to earn the win in his Major League debut. In his second start against the Tigers, Shin-Soo Choo hit a homerun off of Justin Verlander.
Any time a fringe starting prospect comes up and has some immediate success, you always worry about what will happen when the league gets a book on him and/or hitters start to learn his stuff and approach and adjust to him. Gomez has been successful thus far by attacking the strike zone with marginal stuff. Tigers hitters came into today intent on being aggressive early and often. While mistake pitches weren’t getting launched over the fence, Gomez didn’t have the movement, deception, or placement to keep them from spraying hits around the field to the tune of 8 runs in 3 innings and chasing Gomez for his worst start as a Major Leaguer. It will be up to Jeanmar to adjust going forward in order to stay relevant at this level.
Justin Verlander pitched like staff ace Armando Galarraga and worked 8 innings surrendering just the one mistake to Choo.
The Tribe bullpen, forced into action early, pitched 5 scoreless innings, two by Frank Herrmann and one each by Rafael Perez, Tony Sipp and Chris Perez.
Jayson Nix made two, one ridiculous, plays on pop-ups into the camera bay, the second one flipping all the way in, landing on his neck, further bolstering his grinder stereotype status and cementing his roster spot on the 2011 Indians roster, I'm sure. Lou Piniella, managing his last game with the Cubs today, also just moved past Andy Marte on the Indians 3B depth chart.
Shelley Duncan took advantage of Matt LaPorta’s off day in order to widen his gap in the more pathetic slump race.
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Okay, onto more meaningful subjects:
Carrasco: 6.0 IP, 3H, 2R, 2ER, 1BB, 7K (so far, he’s at 74 pitches)
Kipnis: 0-7, 4 K’s in double header
Chisenhall: 2-7, 2 2B’s, 4 K’s (0-4, all on strikeouts in the 2nd game)
Kluber: 5.1IP, 5H, 1R, 1ER, 2BB, 3K
Holt: 2-3, 1 2B, BB, SB
Gardner is pitching for Kinston at the moment.
I was on a tour-de-Midwest, and I was visiting friends in the Detroit area. We went to the game yesterday and today. A few thoughts:
1) How the hell are the Tigers still drawing such large crowds?
2) Comerica is a nice stadium.
3) Jayson Nix cannot field a groundball.
That’s all they have in Detroit.
The Lions and Pistons are horrible. Nobody has a job..so whatever money they do have…they’ve got nothing else to do but go to baseball games.
The Once and Future King
It’s a bigger market, and they’re still in the afterglow of postseason participation. Do you really think people sit at home in December and think, I’d really like to go to a Pistons game, but they suck. So I guess I’ll just save my money for when the Tigers play. Why not go to a hockey match?
Says the soccer fan
Where's your crown, KIng Nothing?
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 23, 2010 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not saying that this is what you’re doing, but is there anything more pathetic than hearing someone from Cleveland rip on Detroit?
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Aug 22, 2010 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah, Tennessee’s alright, mostly. Memphis is the Cleveland of the South though.
If you don't respect Aaron Laffey, I will fight you.
by Cap'n Snegiryov on Aug 22, 2010 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions
It isn’t bad. Moved to Tennessee for school (I’m from SW Florida) and just never went back. Memphis…Ha!
What’s really funny is the town to the East of me is called Cleveland. And every time I wear this one Indians shirt that just says Cleveland in cursive letters on the front, a lot of people are asking me questions like “What high school is that?” or “Is that a shirt from Cleveland State.” I usually just respond with a line from the movie Major League and say…“Nah. It’s a real baseball team that even has uniforms”
The Once and Future King
In this analogy, what is Cleveland the Cleveland of?
by Logodaedalus on Aug 22, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno, baseball games are kind of pricey anywhere. I think most of the crowd comes from the ’burbs, and I think they come at least in part because the stadium is so lovely. Such a chilled-out vibe, without the patrician air of AT&T. A great place to catch a game whether you care about the standings or not.
And indeed, hockey is a bigger local issue than baseball. Much bigger.
People with no money (except on the 1st and 15th) go to the casino.
Finally, Detroit has many wonderful treasures, including some of the best middle eastern food in the United States! And an awesome art museum!!!!!
From, Ben
Detroit is much like Cleveland in that it’s an easy punchline, a poster city (if lazy reference) for the decline of rust belt cities, and so on. But I totally agree with you. Detroit is a fantastic city and both of your statements are true: An enormous Lebanese community which has blessed the residents with what has to be the best Lebanese food in the region. And the museum is incredible. I overwhelmingly prefer it to any of Ohio’s major-city museums.
Although I’m not a fan of Comerica Park. It’s an argument I get into with my Tiger fan friend all the time (he loves it). I write about building and architecture for a living and I got the chance, during construction of Yankee and Citi fields, to interview a couple of the partners at the old HOK Sport – the KC firm (now called Populous) that designed it as well as most other parks in the last 20 years, including the Jake. One of the guys told me that in every architecture firm, no matter what you build, you can look back and tell the hits from the misses. “Comerica was a miss for us,” he said. I loved reporting that back to my buddy.
The Jake, for the record, was a “hit” as he referred to it and Camden as the two projects that put them on the map. “Everybody wanted the next Jacobs Field,” he said.
My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts.
I think Comerica has too much non-baseball stuff. I though the ferris wheel was a silly little addition, but then I saw that there is a carousel as well. Seriously? I also think the food choices are the worst for a new ballpark; obviously the Little Ceasar’s connection hurts.
But the field and seats are very nice, and the Tiger statutes are a good touch. Those sections with the big wooden seats are golden.
He said, and I agree, that the upper deck is WAY too far away from the field and he also regrets not pushing to have SOME kind of visual that recalled old Tiger Stadium. Something like the right field upper deck in Arlington that hangs over the playing field with the support beams… He said he thought there was too much character in Tiger stadium to completely ignore it in the old stadium but that the client wanted the antithesis of the old stadium. Again, I grew up going to the old stadium three, four times a summer. I loved that place. I was sorry not to see it incorporated at all.
My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts.
I believe you entirely, and probably if I’d gone more than three times or really looked around, I would notice the flaws. Actually, one of the games I attended lasted one hour and 41 minutes! I remember the place having a very minor league-feel, with corridors that weren’t giant concrete echo chambers, and I liked how open the view of the skyline was above the outfield wall and bleachers, with the scoreboard set off to the side and what seemed like a low grade for the bleacher seats.
From, Ben
The Great American Ballpark in Cincy has that same minor league feel, and I hate it. Going to the game is supposed to feel like something, it’s supposed to be momentous and so grand that it feels like a whole different world. The Jake is a great place to catch a game because it is comfortable and cozy, but it still evokes that sense of wonder that a good stadium should.
Is it because the trend was to downsize parks and increase intimacy even beyond the level at The Jake?
I love PNC, mainly for the view beyond the fences.
What about Citizens Bank? I’ve never been there.
Oriole Park at Camden Yards is the one that gives me the minor league feel.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 24, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Well put.
Where's your crown, KIng Nothing?
by Turkmenbashi on Aug 24, 2010 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s far worse than that. We’re 0-3 in the past three games. Over a full season that’s 0-162.
The 1996 Indians went 5-11 at one point. I’m pretty sure they won more than 50 games, though.
His point is that we suck, whcih has been the same point all season.
"I spoil a lot of people with my play."
"But I mean, even my family gets spoiled at times watching me doing things that I do, on and off the court." -Lebron James
Yes. And that it is only one tenth of a season. Things are never so bad as they seem during a 4-12 run nor as good as they seem in a 12-4 run. And imagine what a 40-120 season would be like. The 1899 Spiders were 20-134.
First Tomlin exposed… and then like clockwork, Jennmar exposed. Next.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Aug 23, 2010 12:15 AM EDT reply actions
SSS don’t
"sometimes the internet is hard for me." - ClemsonGirl
by world dictator on Aug 23, 2010 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think either is likely to turn into a great prospect, but the sample size we have for poor performances is even smaller than for good ones. So, let’s give them a chance — I’d rather watch them pitch than Huff (for the time being, anyway).
'If I'm not here, 'I'll be somewhere else.'' Andy Marte
Unfortunately, your statement about samples is not true. We know what these guys are from their minor league track records. Either they develop into something else, or we have all the sample we need to say that they can’t be all that good long term in the majors.
Fair enough. But, I still don’t want to watch Huff. I will happily watch better pitchers, if we have some.
'If I'm not here, 'I'll be somewhere else.'' Andy Marte
I have been to Fenway and Yankee Stadium, and at no point did the words “it’s an honor to be here” remotely roam through my mind.
Ah, but the question for you is: What words roam through your mind when entering the corporate headquarters of the Warner Music Group?
by YoDaddyWags on Aug 23, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
“This is a big office. They must be losing buckets of money in overhead.”
by Jay on Aug 23, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
No, Huff pitching is like a magic show gone bad. The lady always bleeds to death on stage while he holds the saw, looks at the boxes, and seems confused. With Tomlin and Gomez, I know it isn’t real but I can buy the illusion long enough to enjoy the display.
by Brad D on Aug 23, 2010 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I think we are all selling Gomez a bit short. Huff and Tomlin I agree belong in the same boat.
"I spoil a lot of people with my play."
"But I mean, even my family gets spoiled at times watching me doing things that I do, on and off the court." -Lebron James
Does anyone have a sense of when (or if) Masterson and Talbot will be shut down? Both seem to be running on fumes.
From, Ben
Don’t know about Talbot, but Hoynes says, in this morning’s PD, that they’re going to move Masterson to the bullpen once he reaches his “inning-limit” — around 180.
http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/index.ssf/2010/08/september_read_reinforcements.html
'If I'm not here, 'I'll be somewhere else.'' Andy Marte
Once he *reaches his inning-limit, shouldn’t they then move him to the bench/DL? Or are they putting him in the bullpen just to sit there and not to pitch? Because it would seem that he shouldn’t pitch anymore (as starter or reliever) once he reaches the inning limit.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Aug 23, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I corrected this mis-statement in another thread already. Now I realize that it’s Hoynes who doesn’t understand.
Acta says:
We’re trying to get 180 out of him, but he doesn’t have to get every single one of them out of the rotation. If we need to start a guy or two when they come up in September, he could finish his innings in the bullpen.
In other words, the number is 180, regardless of where he gets them. There is no reason for them to have a max number in mind, and then a side-plan for him to exceed that number.
Hoynes confuses the issue by mis-paraphrasing:
Justin Masterson is expected to move to the bullpen after he reaches or gets close to 180 innings.
Except that that’s not what Acta actually said or meant.
2011 draft watch
At .403 winning percentage, we are 5th right now, trailing the Pirates (.331), Baltimore (.352), Diamondbacks (.392), and Seattle (.395)
It looks like we can catch Seattle and the Diamondbacks fairly easily, as they are 1 game and 1.5 games ahead, respectively. Pirates and Baltimore look like they’re running away with it though. But we are only 0.5 game ahead of the Cubs who have a .408 winning percentage and are hot on our tail. We are 3 games up on the Nationals and Royals.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Aug 23, 2010 12:38 PM EDT reply actions
Would you be happier if we dropped to pick #2/3, or if we avoided greater ignominy by going .500 in our last 38 games – thanks in part to LaPorta breaking his slump, Brantley returning in stride, and a decent start or two by CarCar? Honest question.
From, Ben
Depends on if this is happening mostly against Sept call-up pitchers/hitters. If LaPorta and Brantley are mashing against AAAA pitchers and CarCar is baffling other teams’ Jordan Browns and Trevor Crowes, then I’ll take the losses and the higher draft pick.
My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts.
I’d rather win. I feel like the difference between getting the #3 pick and getting the #6 pick is greatest on draft day when we all cry out, “I can’t believe they got that guy and we ended up with this guy! Rats!” A couple of years down the road and there’s not usually a real difference.
Come on, four billion!
If the latter happened, I know that at this point I wouldn’t believe in it, anyway. So, in truth, I’m not sure of my answer to the question. I would definitely like to see decent or way better than decent starts by Carrasco (and that I certainly would believe in), but I don’t think that is going to translate to the indians playing .500 ball.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Aug 23, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
To clarify: If brantley or laporta show a flash of something in the last month, I won’t get my hopes up about it. At all.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Aug 23, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s practically no difference between draftingthird or sixth. If the team loses 100 games it will indicate a bad team. Any draft choice would not be palliative.
On average, there is practically no difference between 3rd and 6th. In any specific year, however, the difference can be considerable. There are far more likely to be 3 blue-chippers than 6.
That’s along the lines of what I was thinking. I’d like if they’re able to select a blue-chipper… I mean as long as we’re hanging out in the neighborhood of 100 losses we might as well land that. But I can’t really possibly root for the tribe to lose. They just do it.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Aug 23, 2010 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t root for it; I just don’t mind it so much. Especially if they can manage to lose in some normal, unremarkable way, rather than by looking like a 20-win team as they occasionally do.
I’m all for losses that come from BIP breaking against us, for example. At least in the big picture — watching it happen in real time is maddening.
by Logodaedalus on Aug 23, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you saying there’s no such thing as clutch?
by Logodaedalus on Aug 24, 2010 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
(This is even more maddening to watch than bad BIP luck, of course — few things make me angrier in the course of watching a game than making the wrong kinds of outs when the right ones could lead to runs.)
by Logodaedalus on Aug 24, 2010 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I know this isn’t worthy of a Fan Shot, but who of those tragic teams are best positioned for the future? I know we’d like to believe Cleveland is, given the genius of our front office (sarcasm alert).
My money would be on Pittsburgh, but they seriously need waves of arms to compete. They’ve got a pretty good core of young talent in Alvarez, Tabata, McCutcheon, Milledge, Neil Walker and Garrett Jones. But without any pitching, they’re not going to be very good.
I’m really not familiar with any of those teams’ farm systems to be able to make a guess, but based on track record I have to think the Royals are in the worst shape unless they’ve made some major changes.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Aug 24, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Many think they have the best farm system in baseball right now. It’s changed significantly for the better this minor league season. They’ll have 5+ guys in the top 100 I suspect and 3-5 in the top 50 (Moustakos, Hosmer, Wil Myers, Montgomery, Lamb, Duffy, Crowe).
So, the Tampa Bay Effect may be catching up with the Royals?
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Aug 24, 2010 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
No. Moore has drafted very, very well, especially pitchers.
John Lamb-5th Round
Mike Montgomery-36th pick
Danny Duffy-3rd Round
Wil Myers (catcher now, will DH long term, apparently)-3rd Round
The two huge prospects that are coming back giant this, Hosmer (picked 3rd overall) and Moustakas (2nd overall) were both high school kids and, while they were pretty consensus, they were not David Price or Evan Longoria, let alone Strasburg or Joe Mauer.
A lot of people have heaped a lot of disdain on Dayton Moore but it’s become obvious that, while he probably isn’t a good GM, he’s still a great scout. An incredible scout, it appears.
Yeah but their ability to develop that talent, other than Greinke and Soria, has been absolutely abysmal. I mean, didn’t Alex Gordon have twice the pedigree of Hosmer or Moustakos? Luke Hochevar? Kyle Davies? Billy Butler’s the best hitter they’ve developed since Mike Sweeney, and he’s a bit short of an impact player.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Aug 24, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Certainly. That said, I recollect Hochevar as a product of a weak draft and Alex Gordon was only a bigger deal b/c he came out of college. Moustakas and Hosmer have his pedigree or more by this point.
Davies was acquired in a challenge trade.
There’s no question that a great farm system doesn’t make a great team and I don’t know if they’ll be any good. But they’re way out in front of the Indians, Pirates, etc.
I think the bigger issue is that their existing young talent at the major league level is pretty poor.
Alex Gordon and Matt Wieters keep me up at night.
Though I look right at home, I still feel like an exile
by Manhattan Tribe Fan on Aug 25, 2010 6:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, and Neftali Feliz also walked one before he gave up the hit, and then threw a wild pitch. His stuff is truly wicked, though.
From, Ben
International free agent signed by the Braves in 2005. That’s where the Tribe should be spending its money: international free agents.
They were doing that for years, but it’s a totally unregulated market. Mirabelli says that the imbalance among the teams is worse in international signing than in any other area of talent acquisition.
NYY have accumulated over 200 WAR from these international signings, going back to Roberto Kelly. Double digits-plus out of Mariano Rivera (52.4/signed 1990), Bernie Williams (47.3/1985), Robinson Cano (24.1/2001), Orlando Hernandez (17.7/1998), Hideki Matsui (12.4/2002), Roberto Kelly (11.9/1982), Chien-Ming Wang (10.9/2000) and Ramiro Mendoza (10.4/1991).
Don’t know how that compares to other teams. Sneaky suspicion it might be tops.
by YoDaddyWags on Aug 25, 2010 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re lumping in a whole lot of things together here. Matsui doesn’t belong in a list of amateur signings, and Rivera’s lifetime WAR isn’t mostly about the Yankees being able to sign him as an amateur.
Your comment was about the imbalance in international signings; this made me wonder how much talent, as expressed in WAR, the league’s richest franchise had acquired through the catch-all of ‘international signings.’ Wasn’t doing anything more sophisticated than that.
There are at least 3 signing theories here: the teenagers from Latiin America, the professional-ball defectors from Cuba and the Japanese League expats (I hadn’t realized, or remembered, that Soriano was signed out of the Japanese League). Yanks have gone from having one regular acquired this way, in the ’90s, to 2 or 3, this century. Plus a starter and Mariano.
You’ll have to elaborate on your Mariano comment. What else is it? Luck? Coaching?
I think Jay is saying that all of Rivera’s contributions past the initial 6 years should be looked at as a free agent signing.
Glad I dropped him last week. (For cahill spot start, who then begat Brett Anderson).
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Aug 24, 2010 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Your guys’ rosters must be small, if those guys are still floating around the waiver wire.
by JulioBernazard on Aug 24, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Regular, standard rules, public league. The participants have been somewhat peculiar in their lack of appreciation for certain pitchers over the course of the season, and this has allowed me to gain the advantage in a huge way.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Aug 24, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
oh. Didn’t see this replyfail.
Anyways, I caught the first half of the MNF game—Derek Anderson is as bad as ever.
Trevor Crowecalls thatis a "huge hack".
Come on, four billion!
by Joel D on Aug 24, 2010 8:43 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
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