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Around SBN: The End Of Sabanball: Details, Barbarians, And Precision

25 for 25: Indians

I'm actually a St. Louis Cardinals fan, but over the past few months I've been working on a roster for each franchise in the majors, composed of players over the last 25 years. The way this works is that I pick one player from each season and I have to fill out an entire roster (for AL teams, 2 catchers, 2 infielders at each position, 5 total outfielders, one designated hitter, 5 starting pitchers, 4 relievers)*. I can't take more than one player for each year, I have to take one player each season even in the bad years, and I can't use the same player for multiple positions or years. If a player played the majority of his games at one position, I can't use that season for another position even if he's played it before. And I used basic minimums of 60 innings or 250 PA's (prorated for strike seasons). I primarily utilized WAR from Baseball-Reference (Fangraphs numbers only go back to 2002), WARP1 from Baseball Prospectus, Win Shares, and OPS+/ERA+ to determine season value.

*Just to make things simpler for roster construction for the Indians, I replaced the 2nd first baseman with a 6th outfielder slot and the DH Travis Hafner essentially "backs up" at first. There aren't a lot of good options after Thome anyway and it just made more sense to get an extra outfielder.

The interesting part with this are the decisions that have to be made, whether it is, "Dang, there are some really nice outfielder seasons to choose from, who gets left out?", or, "Does this team even have two decent catchers in a 25-year span?", or, "This guy had so many great years - which one do I choose?" Sometimes a great year gets left out, sometimes a fluke, partial season gets tabbed for the team. I actually posted a fully researched extended version for the Cardinals from 1910 to 1934. The NL versions for this era are there as well (linky, linky, linky, linky).

You're welcome to pick apart my choices and make suggestions of your own. I'm looking forward to hearing from everybody.

Star-divide

C – Sandy Alomar (1997), Victor Martinez (2005)

1B – Jim Thome (2002)

2B – Carlos Baerga (1993), Roberto Alomar (2001)

3B – Brook Jacoby (1987), Travis Fryman (2000)

SS – Omar Vizquel (1996), Asdrubal Cabrera (2009)

OF – Brett Butler (1985), Joe Carter (1986), Kenny Lofton (1994), Albert Belle (1995), Manny Ramirez (1999), Grady Sizemore (2006)

DH – Travis Hafner (2004)

SP – Greg Swindell (1988), Tom Candiotti (1989), Charles Nagy (1992), CC Sabathia (2007), Cliff Lee (2008)

RP – Doug Jones (1990), Jeff Shaw (1991), Mike Jackson (1998), David Riske (2003)

Notable exceptions: Tony Bernazard (1986), Jhonny Peralta (2005), Shin-Soo Choo (2009), Bartolo Colon (2001), Jake Westbrook (2004), Fausto Carmona (2007), Steve Olin (1992), Jose Mesa (1995)

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I’m pretty sure you have your OF and DH slots swapped up there. This is the kind of thing that interests me, as it is of novelty more than analytical value. Nice work.

Come on, four billion!

by Joel D on Sep 1, 2010 8:22 AM EDT reply actions  

Sorry about that

Fixed

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Sep 1, 2010 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is pretty fun. Your avatar is awesome. That is all.

by painaxl on Sep 1, 2010 9:10 AM EDT reply actions  

Full Throttle

That game has always stuck with me, especially the music.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Sep 1, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

this is pretty cool, but if Jose Mesa would have made this team I would probably have been upset, fair or not.

I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.

by notthatnoise on Sep 1, 2010 11:07 AM EDT reply actions  

Mesa should have made it, choke job or not.

by Brad D on Sep 1, 2010 12:59 PM EDT reply actions  

I just can’t forgive him.

I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.

by notthatnoise on Sep 1, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Neither can I.

The Once and Future King

by FlaGators on Sep 1, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not over Belle’s 95.

fka "DaytonDogg". Now a contributor to SBN's Dawgs By Nature. www.dawgsbynature.com

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 3, 2010 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe not, but well ahead of Shaw’s 1991, which wasn’t really very good at all.

by Brad D on Sep 3, 2010 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I needed to find somebody to plug into '91

Shaw was the best option. It meant I didn’t have to pick a sub-par season from Swindell, Candiotti, Nagy, Belle or Baerga, or choose Rod Nichols or Eric King. That’s all you have in 1991 to legitimately speak of.

The relievers were usually tapped to fill in gaps on the roster. If you didn’t have anybody useful or didn’t want to waste a better player, you could always drag out a bullpen guy. I tried to save a few good relief seasons, but they were often the first to get pushed aside.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Sep 3, 2010 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

My fault, I didn’t read your explanation well enough. What a miserable year 1991 was. Alex Cole managed to have an OBP over 30 points higher than his SLG, which is no mean feat.

by Brad D on Sep 4, 2010 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Love the 9 man staff. But for realism, wouldn’t you need to drop at least one IF, maybe a 2nd, as well as an OF? If you need versatility, throw Ryan Garko on there.

by Matt in LA on Sep 1, 2010 1:42 PM EDT reply actions  

4-man bullpen

With a strong pitching staff, you wouldn’t have much of a need for the bullpen. Plus it’s more of an all-star team than a real functioning roster (just like an all-star team – you have to find room for everybody!). Can you imagine dealing with a real outfield of Belle, Carter & Ramirez, left to right (Carter was a CF in ‘86)? You’d have to use Butler, Lofton & Sizemore as defensive replacements every night.

I didn’t want to have to dig too deep with these rosters. Each one took around 8-10 hours to complete (plus a couple more hours working the comments), so I’ve put in over 300 hours in this already. I’d never get this done if I had to scrutinize every team, never mind finding decent utility players for the expansion franchises.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Sep 1, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

What about the Broussard/Perez combo 1B of 2006? A combined .316/.348/.510 with 21 homers in just 398 PAs, and even more importantly they gave us Choo and Cabrera.

by TheDanimal on Sep 1, 2010 4:09 PM EDT reply actions  

2001 Steve Karsay would be a good replacement for David Riske.

I had no recollection of how good Riske was that year.

by Toxicadam on Sep 1, 2010 11:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Oh, wow, I had forgotten about that year, but I remember how annoyed I was that we traded him. He was fantastic. I thought Paul Shuey had him beat, but I guess not. I remember Paul in an extremely fond light.

By the way, it’s always nice when you click that little “Open in new window” box when you post a link.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Sep 1, 2010 11:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Erm, meant as a reply to Glitter.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Sep 1, 2010 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea, I always had a soft spot in my heart for Karsay. About the only non-closer I felt confidence in during that era.

Sorry bout not checking off that box. 9/10 I click it.

by Toxicadam on Sep 2, 2010 9:41 PM EDT reply actions  

What about Juan Gone ’01? Are you keeping PED users off this list?

by JulioBernazard on Sep 3, 2010 1:16 PM EDT reply actions  

holy crap I forgot how good that year was.

I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.

by notthatnoise on Sep 3, 2010 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gonzalez was a 4.5 win player in '01

Roberto Alomar was a 7-win player that year, so Juan would have difficulty claiming that year. But suppose you want to move Alomar to his other great year in ‘99, guess who you kick off – Manny (an even 8.0 in ’99). Do you want to make that trade-off? So either you remove Alomar or Ramirez, or you say, "That’s too bad", and you get over it.

Last ditch effort: drop Robbie for Gonzalez, which means you need to lose an outfielder and gain a 2nd sacker. The easiest option would be to drop Joe Carter in ‘86 & replace him with Tony Bernazard. Of course that means you’ve downgraded at both OF and 2B, just so you can get Juan Gone on the team.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Sep 3, 2010 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I put this up in a game thread, but I’ll place it here again.

It’s a sporcle quiz by the jamootz. Ten minutes to name every lineup from 1988 – 2009.

Type in any order, just last name, no caps or enter key needed.

http://www.sporcle.com/games/thejamootz/indians_lineups

I fizzled out at 152 my first time.

by dgcambridge on Sep 3, 2010 7:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Got to 158. I have conveniently blanked 2003 out of my mind, apparently.

by emd2k3 on Sep 3, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

taken it a few times, very fun

by The Grimace on Sep 3, 2010 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

part of the 8% who got Baez! but pretty bummed about missing a couple pretty obvious 95-97 guys.

by westbrook on Sep 4, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mark Clark bedeviled me. I forgot about the limit and let seven minutes pass while I tried to dredge his name from my memory.

by Brad D on Sep 4, 2010 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

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