Game 112: Twins 5, Indians 4
by afh4 on Aug 8, 2010 5:25 PM EDT
in Game Recaps
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PrintThe final score went up on the board in the top of the 5th inning when the Twins plated 5 runs against David Huff. Tribe batters appeared poised to chase Twins starter Brian Duensing early but, after giving up four runs over the first two frames, Duensing settled in and worked out of trouble the rest of the afternoon, finally giving way to the Minnesota bullpen after 7.1 innings.
Huff is continuing to tread water a million miles offshore with no boats in sight. He's going to remain in the same place for the short term but it won't be long before he is either devoured by a shark or sucked into the wake of a Carnival cruise ship. Since returning from Columbus, Huff's made two starts, throwing 9.2 innings. In those limited innings, he's given up 13 hits, 8 earned runs, 4 walks, 3 homeruns and has blanaced this with 3 strikeouts. In short, Huff doesn't do anything that indicates he's a major league starter-he's been an extreme flyball pitcher with no ability to generate strikeouts all season for Cleveland. On top of this, he generated an organizational headache with the twitter controversey. This cloud that follows David Huff on the internet is odd-he's become something of a CleCom lightning rod and he seems to have a very devoted internet fanclub that thinks he's been sorely mistreated by the Indians. To wit:
Let me get this straight. David pitches great for four innings, has a horrible 5th inning where his pitches went wonky AND the defense (I'm looking at you Marte), went kaput but yet the entire loss falls solely on HUFF's shoulders? Let's also talk about how Justin Masterson lost us almost TWENTY games STRAIGHT (putting together last year and the beginning of this season combined) and yet NOTHING was ever written by the Indians media or those wannabe journalistic hacks at the Plain Dealer. Justin's treated as some amazing pitcher who NEVER loses games because he ever had bad innings - no, the blame NEVER seems to go on Justin's shoulders and yet David, who had a 6-0 record in Columbus this season, gets the shift it seems almost every start - no matter what he does! No worries David - my family and I support you and are huge fans. I hope the Tribe is stupid enough to release you to a team who would REALLY support you and one where you can flourish!
That's from the comment section of the mlb.com recap and there's nothing to really add except that it's very strange. How could anyone watch David Huff and think he was some untapped resource? I have to imagine the front office will explore ways to get Huff out of Cleveland going forward, whether that's through a DFA or a garbage in/garbage out trade. On the other hand, they can continue to treat Huff as organizational fodder with no real reprecussions. His value to the Indians is quickly approaching Sowersian levels, meaning he can be a AAA swingman if he's lucky.
There was good news today, as Matt LaPorta went yard for the second time in three games, hitting a three-run bomb to left in his first AB. He also added two more his later in the game. With his walk-off last night and the homerun today, he now has 7 in his 128 ABs since returning from the Clippers. Rate that out to around 520 ABs, or about a whole season, and you get around 30 homeruns. LaPorta appears to be shaping up to be a serious power threat that the Indians can pencil into the middle of the lineup. He doesn't look like a finished product, especially against tough breaking pitches, but he does seem to know the strike zone and, as has always been the word on him, there's thunder in his bat. When he makes solid contact, the ball moves, quickly.
Also making some waves is Justin Germano, the pitcher that the Indians signed out of the Japanese leagues as an NRI this spring. Since his call-up, German has gone 7 scoreless innings, striking out 7 and surrendering only 3 hits and two walks agains the potent Boston, Toronton and Minnesota offenses. Germano was decent down below as well, however, he wasn't this good. Hard to know what to make of him except that he's entered his name into the 2011 bullpen discussion until further notice. Elsewhere in bullpen news, Chris Perez and Rafael Perez both pitched effectively, especially nice to see out of Pure Rage after his hiccup last night.
A loss today but this team has become very watchable and there's a lot to dream on.
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Wait, LaPorta didn’t homer in yesterday’s loss, did he?
My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts.
That Huff post blows me away. It has to be someone with a personal connection to him. It’s that blind.
I hate the Internet.
Steel Nick
Interesting treading water millions of miles from shore analogy. Was thinking during the game that we need to get Laffey, Sowers, and Huff on a boat, strand them at the Island of Misfit Toys and Soft Tossing Left Handed Starters and never hear from the again.
I’m for giving a healthy Laffey a permanent spot in the rotation, already. As a starter, his career ERA is 4.35 and with 22/49 quality starts ( I know the deficiencies of this stat, but it does have its value ). That’s not bad, and deserving of a fourth or fifth starter’s spot.
Laffey’s career WHIP of 1.529 (over 1.6 the last two years), career k/bb of 1.2 (1.04, .96 last two years) and steadily increasing hit and walk rates don’t make any argument for him to be in the rotation. He’s far from being demonstrably better than Sowers and has, for the last two years, been worse.
Could we Voltron together one soft-tossing super lefty?
Blake: Thanks to you, I am damaged beyond repair!!
How is Huff’s 6-0 record at Columbus relevant… to anything?
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
It gets better in one of his follow up comments. Apparently Huff’s career at UCLA and winning the Bob Feller Award is more relevant to the argument than his 2009 ERA.
I really can’t believe people like this exist.
by supermarioelia on Aug 8, 2010 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I still think Huff has some decent pitches. He has been Godawful—his command sucks right now—but he could get it together one day.
There’s no way to polish his recent results, other than to remind ourselves of his formerly visible potential. Re: potential, I am aware of his injury history, his being old for his minor league levels, his past fly ball luck, etc. I still think he has some potential, but I admit it might not ever be manifest.
He gives up too many homeruns. He doesn’t get groundballs. His strikeout rate is unacceptable. He walks too many people. There is NOTHING about his line to suggest improvement.
It’s going to take a miracle.
I think he’s a headcase. The Twitter stuff was just another incident. Hamilton was making references earlier in the year that unnamed coaches were complaining Huff wasn’t listening to their instruction, and that he unraveled quickly (as he did today).
Huff is extremely frustrating. When I read this stuff—especially the bizarre missives from his net-savvy inner circle—I’m tempted to wish for his summary firing, just to make a point. I actually had those thought when I saw that he had posed at new monument park.
I actually had those thought when I saw that he had posed at new monument park.
THIS. That whole facebook album and the comments didn’t sit right, and everything since then has just been gravy on my hate parade.
by supermarioelia on Aug 9, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I actually had those thought when I saw that he had posed at new monument park.
You’ll have to fill me in here.
Steel Nick
He gets a little too wrapped up in the mystique. He’s beaming as he is photographed in and around the park.
Compare this with a nonchalant Cliff Lee strap-hanging on the subway for his private commute to the old park, like it’s something he does every day.
by jhon on Aug 9, 2010 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He is in a funk and getting worse, that’s why you won’t see improvements.
Let’s assume Huff is healthy. Sustained health gives one faint—very faint—hope for improvement (improvement meaning a suitable back-of-the-rotation guy). Health bides him some time to figure something out. I’m not betting on it, but it would be something short of a miracle.
It’s relevant to the fact that in those 6 games, Columbus scored more runs than its opponents while Huff was still in the game, no matter how poorly he pitched.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Aug 9, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
To nitpick,
It’s not really “relevant to that fact,” it’s simply a consequence of that fact. The fact itself seems to me not relevant, except maybe as a point about Columbus’s impressive hitting. So I’ll grant you that.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Aug 9, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I was really just agreeing with you and making a point about idiot stats.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Aug 9, 2010 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Aug 9, 2010 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions
The best thing about a David Huff start is that it means he won’t appear in the next four games.
by TribeJay on Aug 8, 2010 9:00 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
So Huff’s been a fly-ball pitcher at the major league level, 36.7%, average is somewhere around 44%. In the minors, it was a different story, Huff’s career total was 44.3%. In 2008, the breakout year that got most of us around here really excited, it was 51%.
This begs the question, what happened, how come the gb% didn’t translate? There is probably two, not necessarily mutually exclusive answers.
For one, gb% doesn’t translate one to one from the minors to the majors. I have thought that this was probably the case for some time, but I have never read anything on this to give it some credence. And, at the wonderful minorleaguesplits.com, when I press the mle, the K% predictably goes down and the BB% goes up, but the GB% stays the same. This seems to suggest that it does translate one to one. I’m still skeptical because as it seems noncontroversial that a pitcher is more likely to succeed with a better GB% than not so it should probably be more difficult to achieve at a higher level.
The other reason, Huff’s become a different pitcher. Whatever his pitches were doing or how he was pitching in the past is different than what he has been doing at the majors the last two years. His very limited minor league numbers of the past two years give support to this as his GB% in each of those brief stints (33.3%, 39.9, respectively) were closer to the major league numbers of the past two years.
I first checked into this game after the 4th inning, right before all the damage. First thing I noticed, after the favorable score, was that Huff hadn’t recorded a single strikeout. So I thought, “Looks like a good start but probably isn’t one.” But then I noticed he’d gotten a whole bunch of groundballs in those four innings, so I thought, “Maybe it isn’t so bad, maybe he really is dominating and it’s just a fluke that he has a ton of groundballs and no strikeouts. Maybe he won’t implode today or next week.”
And then the 5th.
Maybe it’s control. Maybe he just can’t hit his spots low in the zone anymore like he could in the minors. Less groundballs, more walks, more pitches high in the zone, better hitters.
He throws maybe three good breaking balls all game recently. Maybe this was the pitch hitters couldn’t lift, and he lost it.
Steel Nick
I honestly think that Huff’s family and/or representation is behind the forum messages, because they just don’t make sense even by the normal “logic” of cleveland.com denizens.
It isn’t complicated or even “sabermetric” to understand the difference between Masterson and Huff. It’s walks and strikeouts, and a 1.50 difference in career ERA. Huff has an ERA that only a mother could love — literally.
Masterson has also at times shown flashes of brilliance and much potential this year. I don’t think we’ve seen anything promising from Huff this year at any time except maybe that one complete game he threw at the beginning of the year, but I don’t really remember if his K rate was very good in that game, and I seem to remember he was being helped greatly early on in the season by luck.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Aug 8, 2010 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions
ooo. I think that was the game Texas made a bunch of errors, Choo homered, and I learned of the CG right as my class was beginning. Either that or I’m thinking of the Talbot CG that was the same week.
Not impossible – I once had an internet flamewar with Dante Bichette’s brother.
He was mad that we (this was in the usenet days) thought the idea that Bichette was a superstar was ridiculous.
Dante was also fun to poke fun of because he had this personal website at the time that he made, found one of those ridiculous “number clubs” that only him and Babe Ruth were in, and his splash page was side-by-side pictures of him and Babe Ruth with the caption “Two of a Kind.” There were some other jerky things about Bichette (he donated money for a school baseball field on the condition that they name the field after him and he used to rip his teammates in the press non-stop) so he was a fun target.
So anyway, getting lectured that judging a player based on his performance makes us bad people because Dante treats his family well is absolutely the wrong way to deal with snarky statheads. It was simply great fun tweaking the guy and Dante at every opportunity – for example, someone would ask why Bichette was playing righfield and I’d respond that Dante heard they planted a hot dog tree out there.
I’d probably just say a sarcastic comment or two and leave it at that nowadays – I’ve grown mellower and diplomatic with age.
by D.Szymborski on Aug 9, 2010 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Bichette had a contrived little gesture he’d make after hitting a home run at Coors, a little rip of the arms into a kind of boxing posture. It was evident that he rehearsed it.
by odradek on Aug 9, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
DontCallMeJoey – GET OFF MY LAWN RIGHT NOW OR I WILL MESS U UP! I M NOT KIDDING!
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
by woodsmeister on Aug 9, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Then ten minutes later: “NO I M SERIOUS. I WILL MURDER YOU.”
My primitive mind can't grasp these concepts.
So on Twitter, Albert Belle would basically be @drunkhulk.
Blake: Thanks to you, I am damaged beyond repair!!
I can’t recall seeing such negative comments from Acta before. Especially since I recall Huff being one of the guys that Acta singled out in the off-season as being excited about working with. Clearly the organization is very down on Huff (with good reason), but it’s still a bit surprising as the Indians tend to be Kubuki-masters in the art of inoffensive management speak. By way of comparison, I can’t ever remember Sowers being called out like this, regardless of how putrid his performances were.
Can’t call out Sowers as his stuff lost its translation in AA. Huff has the faint hint of major league arm in there somewhere. The Indians rarely do anything without a reason and this points to a possible belief that Huff needs a kick or five. I personally think that it is a Samson thing with the Huffstache.
Judging by Acta’s comments (which as several people here noted were really unusually pointed), I don’t think he’ll get ‘em (soon, anyway). Talbot apparently had a positive throwing session and is supposed to do a rehab start this week, I think (in the lower minors, I believe). If he’s okay, he’ll obviously be back in the rotation and Huff is the odd man out.
'If I'm not here, 'I'll be somewhere else.'' Andy Marte
Unless Gomez is wearing down already, I’d guess he’ll stay in the rotation until September. In September, they can call guys up and shut down Gomez at that point — I’d be surprised if Carrasco doesn’t get starts in September (whether or not he’s “earned” the cup of coffee). I guess if Talbot can’t go yet, Huff gets a reprieve (although they can still call up Carrasco now to take Huff’s turn).
'If I'm not here, 'I'll be somewhere else.'' Andy Marte
Huff will get some more “last chances” still this season. My recollection is that Masterson and Talbot have innings limits upcoming, and Huff will probably get a few starts along the way. If Huff emulates Lee and gets his head together, then those chances will be worth it. Not betting on it though.
by MTF on Aug 9, 2010 11:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
True enough. If this is right, who gets all those September starts? If they shut down Gomez, Masterson and Talbot, you’ve got Huff, Carrasco and ….? There’s no one deserving at Columbus at all, that I can see. Those waves of arms haven’t exactly materialized.
'If I'm not here, 'I'll be somewhere else.'' Andy Marte
How many waves of arms do you think we can realistically have crash on the shore in any one given year? Gomez and Tomlin and, in a couple weeks, Carrasco aren’t enough?
"If Brown is the answer, then you’re asking the wrong question." - Ryan
They’re going to have to be, because the cupboard is pretty bare (until you get down to Alex White, who’s at least a year away). The lefty wave (Huff, Sowers, Laffey, S. Lewis) produced little or nothing; let’s hope this one is more productive.
From the group we have now, I’d like to see next year’s rotation be: Carmona, Talbot, Masterson, Laffey, and Carrasco or Tomlin (with Gomez and Tomlin/Carrasco as back-up, Huff as a last resort). I say Laffey because a lefty would be good, and he’s the best of a bad lot. I say Carrasco/Tomlin because Gomez is pretty young and has less AAA experience (although he’s looked good in his 3 starts thus far). There are an awful lot of questions about almost all of those guys — unrealistic as it may be, I’d be happy to see one or two more guys ready to step in if and when they are needed.
'If I'm not here, 'I'll be somewhere else.'' Andy Marte
I think that “lefty wave” was more of a lefty ripple.
In the new Geico commercial, Marte sings "Let me be myself" on Wedge's front lawn (with the cavemen).
by V-Mart Shopper on Aug 9, 2010 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
lefty warm spot.
I have been complimented many times and they always embarrass me; I always feel that they have not said enough.
by notthatnoise on Aug 10, 2010 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
First, realistically, it should be possible for them to LAND ashore rather than crashing on the shore.
Second, realistically, we can hope for pitchers with more long-term potential to eat up innings and suppress runs than the three guys you’ve named.
by Jay on Aug 9, 2010 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions
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